With the new classes coming out, are (new) barbs going to die? o:

2

Comments

  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I would want a good Barb when I am doing bhs,ff etc.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Jhalil - Heavens Tear
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear Posts: 865 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ok that tears it, according to whom?! I am so sick of the "barbs are obsolete, barb class is dead, there are no barbs" nonsense. I can't even count how many times I have put into World Chat "Bored (insert level at time) barb LF something to do" to get not a single PM in response. You guys think barb class is dead? Then blame yourself and all the other people who can't be bothered to take "unappealing" class along.

    But I know how to solve that problem, let's go make a bunch of threads on the forums for all the new people to see about how "unappealing" playing a barb is! That will solve the problem regarding the barb population! Hell, it might even convince the new players to not take them on squads either! Awesome! Then the few barbs that are left will never be able to level and will give up to roll a different class...good job.

    - Barbs are only wanted for their buffs at end-game, unless of course they restat to 4-5 APS claw builds. Which is another problem by itself.
    - BM/Assassins with 5 APS and bloodpaint make for far better tanks than regular VIT build barbs.
    - Barbs cost money to level up and gear, and when you reach the level where you start earning money, barbs aren't wanted.

    Only reasons I can think of, off of the top of my head. I'm not against barbs, and I have no idea why you're so offended by me stating the obvious.

    If a new person would make a topic called "Which class to play BM or Barb?".
    I assure you that most of the replies would include "BM, barbs can tank earlier but at higher levels you can tank just as well and deal a lot better damage. And you're wanted in squads more".

    But that's exactly my point in this topic, I'm asking how all these reasons are going to affect the game even more. Eventually most of the barbarians are either quitting and making BM/Assassin alts, and not enough people are making new barbarians, in my opinion at least.
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

    If Seekers are allowed 5.0, you can bet that most Blademasters (and maybe even Assassins) will find themselves out of a job...

    They are not allowed fists. But even if they are, they will never replace BMs.
  • Cortimis - Dreamweaver
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    - Barbs are only wanted for their buffs at end-game. How is that a problem with the class? That is a problem with everyone else.

    - BM/Assassins with 5 APS and bloodpaint make for far better tanks than regular VIT build barbs. Which is why we see 5 APS sins pulling catas in TW every week right? There is nothing a sin/BM can tank that a barb cannot. The same cannot be said in reverses. How exactly are sins better tanks than barbs again?

    - Barbs cost money to level up and gear, and when you reach the level where you start earning money, barbs aren't wanted. Clerics also cost mana pots, and archers have to make or buy arrows. Anything else obvious that needs to be pointed out? Every class takes money to play. The problem is the "not wanted" part. Again, not a fault of the class.


    Only reasons I can think of, off of the top of my head. I'm not against barbs, and I have no idea why you're so offended by me stating the obvious. Because it is not "obvious", it is the same old bandwagon **** force-fed to the player base by cashshoppers and exploiters. Barbs have a role to fill, they will always fill that role. Period. Just because a different class "can" exploit game mechanics to approximate the result of that role does NOT mean that barbs are useless or that the role is now somehow magically beyond our capability.
    Read the red text. b:bye Barb class ain't dead, ain't gonna be dead. Wanna know why? Because there will ALWAYS be people like me who are capable of playing with more than the Spark Eruption and Auto-Attack buttons.
    Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

    Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
  • Jhalil - Heavens Tear
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear Posts: 865 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Too lazy to quote.

    Point 1: People just have barb alts to buff, that's all they're for at end game.

    Point 2: TW? TW is dead. You're on DW, from what I know. TW got so boring on there that the land that owned the whole map disbanded just for the hell of it, and now it's slowly being taken over by 1 specific faction again. Do I need to say more? You're free to go to any other server, hit M and check territories. Chances are the map is owned by 1 faction, minus a few lands here and there.

    Point 3: Clerics are needed 99% of the time in any instance, Archers are the cheapest 5 APS class in the game. Making money for arrows or potions if for neither a problem.

    Point 4: Wait, if so many people are saying it, and so many people agreeing, besides you. Doesn't that mean it IS obvious, you're just butt-hurt that your preferred class is getting the shaft. Nothing wrong with that, but it's also just plain idiotic and being blind not admitting that Barbarians are the most crappy class to play, if you're planning to make it your mane for end-game purposes.

    Since you insist on making this a debate and just basically whine and stomp and pout and try to argue the fact that yes, Barbarian class is dying.

    - Least wanted in squads after level 99, when most of the "good money" options become available.
    - PK barbs are nothing more than sitting ducks for all the Rank 8 magic classes out there. Sure there are exceptions, and each server has it's (at most) handful of PK barbs that actually can PK. But chances are they're decked out in +10-12 gear and have 2nd cast Nirvana axes with god of frenzy. Or they're a gimmick of a BM/Assassin and try to use fists in PK.
    - TW matches last less than 20 minutes, and 20 minutes for a match is generous these days. Most are over within 5 to 10 minutes.

    Now you can go cry in a corner somewhere more, but at least try to be honest to yourself, just because you have a level 82 barb (I just noticed that, you're not even at any point where you start feeling how useless your class is) and enjoy playing it. Doesn't mean it has no flaws, and as far as I'm concerned, and the majority of people on this game.
    Barbarians (at end game) are nothing more than buff slaves or cata pullers for 10-20 minute TW wars. Other than that, they're completely and utterly useless, unless once again. They go and use as you called it "spark eruption and auto-attack buttons".

    You are more than welcome to keep playing your barb, I even endorse it, because at the level you're on. People would be delighted to have you in an FF.
    But once/if you hit level 100, and you start noticing everyone asking "APS?" when you want to Nirvana, or when your runs are taking an hour each time, and you constantly get shafted and replaced by a BM or an Assassin.
    Picture this face in your head: http://tinyurl.com/2cvukz5 and then remember my name.
    Then you can come back and contribute your input on how "not dead" your class is.

    Just because you're playing a barb, doesn't mean it's as useful as your (optimistic) thinking make it seem.
    And wtf are you on about misleading new players? It's misleading to tell any new player to pick a Barbarian as it's the "tank" of the game, and then they find out once they've leveled enough, that they can't even hold the boss'/mob's aggro to be able to tank.
    You've got your logics all messed up and you're just blinded by your own biased opinions towards your own class.

    Edit: Forgot this, since it seems traditional to end posts with this emote on these forums: b:bye
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  • Tsubakey - Heavens Tear
    Tsubakey - Heavens Tear Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Which is why we see 5 APS sins pulling catas in TW every week right? There is nothing a sin/BM can tank that a barb cannot. The same cannot be said in reverses. How exactly are sins better tanks than barbs again?

    the thing is a sin/BM, in addition to being good tanks cuz of BP, can also keep aggro without any remote possibility of getting it stolen except by another 5 aps. a barb? good luck keeping aggro in a 5aps party.

    that right there is one of the main problems.

    i think the first step to making barbs better a t end game is fixing there aggro skills. increase the amount of aggro a barb gains with ALL of his skills to a point where not even 5 aps builds can steal aggro..
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  • Morty - Raging Tide
    Morty - Raging Tide Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Hopefully all the Failtankbarbs will just quit the damn game, they fail with all classes.
    Is Now On Lost City Under The Name; Mortyy
  • Born_Free - Harshlands
    Born_Free - Harshlands Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Morty - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Hopefully all the Failtankbarbs will just quit the damn game, they fail with all classes.

    Sense. Your post makes none.


    There are fails on every class. Try again.

    Edit: and I agree Tsu, there should be better aggro skills for barbs. But like many things with this game, I'm not so warm and fuzzy to the fact it's going to happen. Once again, I mention the 5.0 nurf, but that's never going to happen.
  • Morty - Raging Tide
    Morty - Raging Tide Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »
    Sense. Your post makes none.


    There are fails on every class. Try again.

    Lmao who are you master yoda stop being a **** and gtfo
    Is Now On Lost City Under The Name; Mortyy
  • _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear
    _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I think barbs arent completely "dead", but almost....
    1. Nirvana impossible ("nirvana LF 4.0 + aps") unless you restat to claws
    2. mainly at 90+ they get replaced by sin/bm in FF,TT,BH etc.
    3. no chance at pvp no matter of the player's skills (unless with hax equips + skills)
    4. rank 8 destroyed it even more for players who aren't rich (like me b:chuckle)
    5. they cost lots of money (repair/pots/decent gear) and when they could earn money they still cant (in TT no tank pick, as for nirvana look at 1.)....only good option is spending real money

    so.....on low levels barbs are pretty useful still....but later they are just replacements if there are no sins/bms in the squad.
    I play my barb for ages (never hypered/oracled) and my sin is just more fun because I do way more damage
    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
    Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Library Chief Cheng
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I think barbs arent completely "dead", but almost....
    1. Nirvana impossible ("nirvana LF 4.0 + aps") unless you restat to claws
    2. mainly at 90+ they get replaced by sin/bm in FF,TT,BH etc.
    3. no chance at pvp no matter of the player's skills (unless with hax equips + skills)
    4. rank 8 destroyed it even more for players who aren't rich (like me b:chuckle)
    5. they cost lots of money (repair/pots/decent gear) and when they could earn money they still cant (in TT no tank pick, as for nirvana look at 1.)....only good option is spending real money

    so.....on low levels barbs are pretty useful still....but later they are just replacements if there are no sins/bms in the squad.
    I play my barb for ages (never hypered/oracled) and my sin is just more fun because I do way more damage

    1. Barbs can do 4+ aps and still be viable, most other classes can't. Barbs tend to suck at AoE aggro: -int doesn't change that.
    2. Barbs are offered coin to do FF, TT more often than any other class
    3. PVP gets old quick for most classes now
    4. You have the lowest costing HP, highest paying jobs, lowest dependence on armor, etc.
    5. See the above

    It's easy to point at cash shoppers, but I don't think they're really a problem.

    APS gonna help a Trophy Mode run, a Zhen in Moonshade Desert, a farm squad for OHT gears, Harpy Wraith, etc?
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I think barb is one of the best classes if you are looking at endgame content.


    Easiest to level IMO. You are highly needed for BH and TT and FC at low levels. Most (all) sins don't have the refines and shards that you need to tank low level BHs, BMs can tank but it's hard for them to hold aggro, seeing as how there isn't really any good -interval gears at that point, if you want to you can get the lvl 60 mold wrists but you're still looking at a base of 1.67 and your aps sparked is.... oh wait, you dont even have demon spark yet. Up until 95 at the earliest, you are still the most desired tank.

    Probably one of the most useful classes in FC, armageddon is the best skill for mobs, bosses the barb will be taking unless if the squad is 95-99+

    Lower level TTs are hard for a BM or Sin to tank, sin will get ***** trying to tank without high refines and shards, which is something that not many sins have until 99+. BMs aren't going to have any -interval gears so if they try to tank they'll just lose aggro the the earlier mentioned sin, who will then die.



    At endgame at claw build is viable and is great for TTs. Like I've told a friend earlier, you have the fastest run speed (good for clearing instances in record time) 5.0 sparked, you get bloodpaint, never have to worry about hp or phy attack buff, poison fang makes up for not having a weapon mastery, and if you're willing to do it, then you have an extra 30% max hp.

    People ask me for nirvana all the time, I can tank Nirvana without a cleric, just healing with bloodpaint and the hp return from triple spark. I can solo ancient evil in TT2-3, all of TT3-2, etc.



    People who think barbs are no good are juse sheep who cant think for themselves, I'll have fun soloing TTs and everyone wanting to run nirvana with me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Firenzeball - Heavens Tear
    Firenzeball - Heavens Tear Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    b:byeLol what PWI needs to do is to revamp the skills of the old school classes. Pfft Maplestory does it. Why not PWI?
  • Born_Free - Harshlands
    Born_Free - Harshlands Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Firenzeball - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    b:byeLol what PWI needs to do is to revamp the skills of the old school classes. Pfft Maplestory does it. Why not PWI?

    [/facepalm]

    What does that have to do with game mechanics?
  • Haden - Dreamweaver
    Haden - Dreamweaver Posts: 376 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »



    People who think barbs are no good are just sheep who cant think for themselves, I'll have fun soloing TTs and everyone wanting to run nirvana with me.



    I think the main source of concern with most people is that Barbs shouldnt (this includes all classes) have to use claws to be considered a "Viable class." From understanding, Seekers wont get to use claws/fists, which instantly removes them from being useful in Nirv by current standards.

    The issue revolves around there being no real balance outside of that, every class, (excluding Seekers/mystics) can use claws, and if you want Nirv gear, you need them and to be statted to do rapid melee damage. It was heavily instigated onto the people who dont play melee classes that, well, now they're useless.

    Clerics, are now considered as an "antiquated" class for Nirv, and since the strike on Nirvana classes happened; where everyone is now uplifted to a higher par that couldn't run Nirvana, people who shunted them, complained. Its an ongoing spiral of headache and "evolution," with no real end to the migrane that the lack of balance has caused. Yes, there are those who've gotten into Nirv squads without being 4.0+, but it really doesnt change anything.

    There is a happy median that Pwi is neglecting, for all classes to co-exist in end game, so that they can use appropriated skills per class, and such. Wont ever happen, but it would be to scale -int to all weapons accordingly, not just to fists/claws in such monsterous amounts. Balance out -interval/channeling so that it becomes a less important "skill" and make skill, a mor important attribute to player base. Dont punish those who've worked for 5.0 but have them understand that it will either drop, or everyone can achieve high fast attacks with any group of weapons. Axes hitting for 3.5, bows shooting at 3. They could always just remove it, but then the riots would be uncontrollable, painful, and brutal.



    There's an outcry for change in the Promised Perfect World. Regrettably, Perfect World isnt.
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  • Jhalil - Heavens Tear
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear Posts: 865 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    His post here.[/COLOR]

    "You can have 5.0 APS"
    ...You just completely proved most of us here right, barbs are mostly useless at end-game UNLESS they go for the claw build.

    And I'd love to see you solo Steelation in 3-2 with nothing but BP :D
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  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Darcwolf - Lost City wrote: »
    I've been complaining about this for a while, if I barb wants survivability and wants to be a good tank you have to put alot into vit, or spend a ton of money and put it into your gear. This leaves you with minimum str. which makes it VERY hard to hold aggro.

    I literally have a keyboard macro that just basically holds down the flesh ream key, and even then I lose aggro with +10 GX. And its even worse if your sage cause you don't do as much damage. They need to SERIOUSLY do something about barb tiger form skills, like roar, flesh ream, sunder.

    Also they should barb a stun that actually works! cough79skillcough, the person is unstunned before you are done using the skill. At least make it last 3-4 secs, or increase the chances of mighty swing, since every other class has a 100% stun/seal/sleep skill.

    That being said, my barb is pretty much retired also because there is no use for us anymore when 5.0 bms/sins can just tank everything.

    I got bit more str than average barb, yet I`m not some str barb. I got 325 or so after gear, R8 wep +6, demon true form/shapesfting(more crit)/axe mastery/fr. I think I might be able to hold aggro from sparked ~2.8aps, maybe even 3aps if the wep of that isn`t refined much. But to pull that off it`s just hellish and I really wonder how barbs w/o this sort of focusing on aggro generation can manage. Our aggro skills are a joke, this 5aos archer never let me got hit, even when I went and tried to pull aggro, for the fun of it. If I cant demon FR aggro on me for enough to get hit, something is just really broken.

    I`m leveling BM to farm gear for my barb, I really love barb as a class, I`m just useless on it `cept for my buffs. Well I do actually farm bit on my barb too but that`s mostly Cube for the neck or Delta for tome, which would be going to my BM anyway.

    But few things to fix barbs, bosses that require barb, not some average barb with low refines and npc armor but real geared barb. No freaking random aggro bosses, if they want to hit your cleric, nothing you can do for it. And boost our FR and/or give us new aggro skill. Bosses need to be made harder as barbs are just pointless to even take, would they be able to hold aggro as BMs/Sins tank just as well and dish hellalot more dmg to the bosses.

    Edit: About claw barbs, with the lack of barbs on my server, I might be needed for pulling catas & atm, I dont have money to get anywhere close enough hp to be useful at that with claws, heck, my axe build got too low atm. When I get my BM to permaspark and farming, I might go and restat to claws on my barb too or I should do the math what would I actually lose restatting to claws on my barb. B Actually, I`ll be going to make maths about how much hp would I lose if going to claws, restatting that extra str away. If I stay 15k+ with my hammer, I`ll be doing it and say the hell with leveling a BM as it can be such a pain in the ***.

    Edit2: I got interesting numbers, I`ll be just making topic on barb section rather than go really off topic here.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • Das_Racher - Archosaur
    Das_Racher - Archosaur Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Pretty simple, if they just change the amount of aggro 1 damage generates to like 1/4 or less of the aggro it produces now.


    Barbs don't die they just go into hiding. It's winter, most have hibernated. b:cute But some do get killed off by them mean poachers.........

    Yes, I am going into hibernation on top of Volcanic Purgatory.
    I am accepting barb hibernation donations, feel free to send me mail with money attached at any time. b:laugh


    And yes, they need to do something about aggro.
    How about just make it harder for DD's to take agro when a barb is in the squad and on the premises?
    Or if a barb is just attacking the mob you're attacking.
    I basically mean, make it so DDs can DD but they just don't take agro. Problem solved. Happy faces for barbs and DD's.
    If I tear you open wide,and take a look inside;
    Are you pretty?
    Can I get inside your mind,see what I can find;
    Are you pretty?
    So just take off that disguise,everyone knows that you're only
    Pretty on the Outside.

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  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Barb will never die...


    Yeah, he might have lost his appeal but he wont die for sure...




    Another thing, to solve aggro issue just make FR level 11 have more aggro power...something like 10 times more and it's done




    Id like to post more and support barb in every aspects of them but it's really late here b:tired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


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  • Enreillia - Sanctuary
    Enreillia - Sanctuary Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »
    Once again, I mention the 5.0 nurf, but that's never going to happen.

    Well there was some Q&A post with the Chinese devs about 5.0 APS a long with various other things. Someone translated it. It basically said they were trying to think of a way to cut it down, or "nurf" it, without it being too detrimental on both sides. This would be implemented in the expansion after Genesis at the earliest. Now whether the person translated it right I cannot say. There, however, could be a possible nerf on APS.

    Well before anyone says anything about it...You're probably noticing my forum avatar is a sin. Well I made one because I wanted one. I didn't make it for the 5 APS, but I'll have to have it if I wanna be "useful." I always invite a barb if one needs the same BH as I do or wants to come a long because they are bored. I don't think barbs are just gonna die. I mean sure it looks bleak for an endgame barb right now that hasn't restated for endgame instances, but things can change. Though that doesn't mean it will sadly.
  • _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear
    _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    1. Barbs can do 4+ aps and still be viable. gimme the money? 4+ aps costs alot unless you cash shop or got no real life.
    2. Barbs are offered coin to do FF, TT more often than any other class. it's a pity people have to offer money for barbs to do their jobs. if you really like being a barb you won't take money for having fun.
    3. PVP gets old quick for most classes now. barbs are useless in pvp unless you got +12 God of Frenzy axes....with claws you'll be dead before you reach anyone
    4. You have the lowest costing HP, highest paying jobs, lowest dependence on armor, etc. and you have the highest repair + pot costs. and to have awesome HP (20k+) you'll need to CS again
    5. See the above Yep :)

    It's easy to point at cash shoppers, but I don't think they're really a problem.*points at you* :D

    APS gonna help a Trophy Mode run, a Zhen in Moonshade Desert, a farm squad for OHT gears, Harpy Wraith, etc? well aps doesnt, but zhens,harpy wraith and farm squads died (atleast on HT) but even then for harpy wraith you'd need hax gears ("gimme the money?")
    There :P
    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
    Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Library Chief Cheng
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    There :P

    1. Then you're obsolete because of you: don't blame your class.
    2. Then everyone should just drop everything they earned when done in a squad if it was fun?
    4. Proof? -The faster you kill: the lower the costs. Barbs are possibly best at luring / handling huge amounts of mobs, and contrary to what I see a lot of: they don't have to get hit by them to aggro / lure them. We each have our strengths that we need to exploit if we want to thrive.

    -beggars = pathetic. b:sad You would have barbs do jobs for free, then turn around and ask for coin for doing nothing.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear
    _TigerPower_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    1. Then you're obsolete because of you: don't blame your class. I don't really blame my class for it. you just gotta spend lots of money / play a game for 24/7 to do lots of damage....I know way better things than that (RL).
    2. Then everyone should just drop everything they earned when done in a squad if it was fun? that's something different. noone ever drops earned things if she/he gets them (except for a friend) and if you take money for everything you do that's just silly
    4. Proof? -The faster you kill: the lower the costs. Barbs are possibly best at luring / handling huge amounts of mobs, and contrary to what I see a lot of: they don't have to get hit by them to aggro / lure them. We each have our strengths that we need to exploit if we want to thrive. well, to lower those costs you first gotta spend lots of money....and with 5 aps I don't wanna imagine the insanely high weapon repair cost. I don't wanna disagree on that lure thing since barbs are awesome lurers.....but bms with their physical marrow and decent HP are good too.

    -beggars = pathetic. b:sad You would have barbs do jobs for free, then turn around and ask for coin. that asking was just a joke if you didn't get it b:laugh (I never asked anyone for money) and of course I am way too friendly for this game I know that :P
    lalala I gotta write something here b:laugh
    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
    Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Library Chief Cheng
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    "You can have 5.0 APS"
    ...You just completely proved most of us here right, barbs are mostly useless at end-game UNLESS they go for the claw build.

    And I'd love to see you solo Steelation in 3-2 with nothing but BP :D
    It's called adapting. Right now if you're a lvl 100+ barb and you aren't pulling catas then I see no reason for you to not be a claw build. None at all, with even slightly decent gears you'll still have more than enough HP to tank instances.




    And I skip steelation, I skipped him before the changes, his drops aren't very good. Just run in and kill first and second boss, cheap. Third boss is just a matter of either using earthquake or timing sparks to resist the magic attack, has a chance to drop a gold, go run through nemen real quick and then solo minister, dunno about other servers but on RT minister stones sell for 1.2mil+ and tsu's ghost masks sell for 900k-1mil. And he can drop a gold, easy 5mil there. And if I'm feeling adventerous, I kill emperor, for a shot at a 9mil gold.


    The runs are pretty quick and I only lose about ~300k charm and 100 event pots.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Most barbs r just useless, they cannot keep aggro from high aps people unless they themselves are with high aps, furthermore it seems that they constantly worry about covering their repairs (in FCC) as if they gain completely nothing from the run or are just generally lazy. I really hope Seekers will replace barbs and we will have more tanks, because now it`s just sad, waste countless teles on wc to get 1 lousy barb....... and if ure lucky to get 1 that is. b:angry
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy :)
  • Drakeii - Heavens Tear
    Drakeii - Heavens Tear Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The real thing they should do is let bosses get their real power back...
    FF was very nice before this stupid update whereas u can solo FF and hit lvl 90 in less than a week thanks to hyper in it
    ive made a full run in the old FF, it wa smuch funnier
    whereas a lvl 98 barb got 6k-8k dmg each hit
    or even 16k dmg from some aoes
    only barb could have enough def and HP to survive such a thing
    i havent been in warsong since a while nor lunar on here
    but i remember the runs i did with th elvl 98 barb with 16k hp...bosses could easily 1 hit me
    if it was liek that it would all turn back to the old good times
    where barbs ar the tanks and the others just some DDs
    if they do too much dmg due to 5 aps, its their issue
    get another gear for lower aps and let the barb tank what he should be tanking

    but ofc PWE staff will never do that, ppl wont like it and they wouldn tbe spending that much cash no more
    that would be a real lost in their bussiness gagnance which wouldnt make them happy

    althought as long as the weapon and gears remain being just cash shop items it shouldnt make them lose too much...ppl would still need loads of charms, even more, and would still keep buying their geras (they are just too lazy to farm anything msot of them....) Prolly some ppl would just quit pw if the bosses are too hard
    and they cant just macro-spark-afk on them rofl...
  • Mooy - Heavens Tear
    Mooy - Heavens Tear Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Don't worry the new classes won't take barb job. Seeker no control, sometime useless for soloing because their sword mark skills only for other classes except the Golden Sword Mark. Mystic got lower healing, party buff than Cleric, and they can't desummon because they are not pet, they are skills, Veno hit harder than Mystic. People still need barb to take agro (no way I can do a FB without barb, my crit is way too much even without skill), and still need cleric in their party, but PvP, not sure about it...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    visit jd-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=393891 to read the translated chapters of Zhu Xian.
    Forum Translator of Jade Dynasty, pm me if you need to translate anything. Can be any PWE game.
    Mystic's skill list updated. Final version of lvl11 skills and lvl79, 100 skills.
  • Finra - Sanctuary
    Finra - Sanctuary Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I was on my Assassin earlier, got in an FF squad and as usual the whole squad is ready-ish, except for the Barbarian.
    Just for like..you know, boredom's sake I parked my BM at the veno/barb starting spot just check it out while I watch a movie on my other screen and nomnom my food.

    Anyway, I saw a total of 12 venos being made, and 1 barb over the course of..~2 hours. Give or take I surely missed 1 or 2 because I was watching my movie. But I think that's pretty accurate (On heaven's tear at least) as to how scarce Barbarians are.
    Throughout leveling my assassin, I realized that in the lower level BHs Barbarians are almost non existent, but luckily you don't need them for those BHs.
    As I leveled up more, I realized that a few more barbs were available, after asking them how long they've been on their barb. I quickly noticed how the majority of them have answered in a manner that usually came down to; "Barb is now my alt, I just play it once in a while. My new main is my BM/Sin/Archer (3 most named classes)"

    So, my question is to the people, with this new expansion coming up. How do you think the "new" generation of players, that will go on and swarm the new classes will be able to manage with the lack of barbarians around?
    This of course has no effect on most of the "high" leveled and "decently" geared folks out there who'll just hyper solo FF for themselves, or have a friend do it.
    I'm talking about that one level 5x archer that got bored of his/her archer and now decided to make a Mystic/Seeker. How do you think it's going to turn out for him/her?

    This topic has no real...value in particular, just wanted to see opinions on this. Maybe give the staff a view on how unappealing the main tanking class is, maybe they'll do something about it (No, I'm not a comedian, I just crack a good joke once in a while).

    Yush.

    Well it all kinda comes down to 2 disadvantages that barbs have, which make people stop playing them or not wish to play them: 1. low dmg - takes ages to kill a mob and 2. REPAIR FEE.

    On our server barbs are starting to ask for repair fees before they run a FCC with them, or w/e they are needed to meat shield for. One day there's not gonna be any barb thats not gonna tank anything until you pay them. Tho I did talk to one particular barb n he said "those guys are cheap, repairs are not expensive" ~ tho that really depends on level and what you're holding against (he's 97)

    My other friend also was a barb that played as his main character, but changed to his alt for making sin as main. I'm told that any 3.33 + aps sins can steal aggro from barb regards how good the barb is. Therefore, sins becomes tanks. Sins can now solo FCC and TTs with bloodpaint and fast DD aps (even better with sage aps) and barbs aren't really needed anymore. Though I much rather have a barb running along side to get the 'squad' thing going.

    A HA veno with nirvana gear <3 can tank a lot of bosses, but they don't have aggro skill which is a pain in the butt. It would be nice if barbs get a lil more dmg output than what they have now. Since barb class is one of the hard classes to play and maintain, something should be done or there won't be any more barbs out there =( same to even clerics; tho not as bad as barbs; but its always barb that's hard to find for squads and then clerics. (MP drain + cost)

    I've started to see claw build barbs.. they can't hold ****. Can't hold aggro can't outdmg sin (duh) and theres no such thing as 'tanks' anymore since everyone jus go punching at the boss and hopefully it wud rotate around so no one gets all the punches.

    To be honest I really think ther should be a backup tank... tho that was namely the herc, but honestly even as a HA veno I can steal my hercs aggro with lvl 5 bash; don't even need to talk about keeping aggro from sins and BMs. Now it would be sins tanking after that; and even BMs, but they are still kinda squishy..

    Maybe raise the aggro skill for barbs as well as their dmg out put? That may work better for everyone...


    EDIT: Oh, another point. Ever since Hyper came around and BHs, there are MORE and MORE noobs produced. People don't know how to play their class like they used to, i.e. BMs that don't know what HF is, that doesn't stun, that doesn't aggro all mobs he aggroed so that the cleric can heal, barbs that don't hold aggro and don't know how to survive with invoke, venos that don't know how to pull and clerics that don't know which skill to use and when to use for the right moment, etc. And with these new people playing barb its gonna make them even more fustrated; and also to ppl in the abit-older generation where they're trying to find a barb that know what da heck he's doing. And coz the barb doesnt know wad da heck he's doing, it leads to being criticized and being called a noob because he's a newer generation. Then these newer generation barbs (and not ONLY barbs) start to whine about costs and repair fees and then QUIT the class and perhaps even the game.
    Having a lvl 92 sin with 1.54 aps being able to steal aggro off a 101 barb is actually quite shocking .__. - ego hurted much? aaaaaaaaaaand he quits! LOL
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Barbs aren't a solo class, so why are barbs dealing with high repair bills? Why do barbs complain about high repair bills when BMs and Sins who tank don't? What about archers that pay for every single hit?

    Barb A: Enters Seat of Torment unwined. Barb A rounds up some mobs as squad follows. Barb stops, works his skills, and the squad AOE's the **** out of them. -Low repairs, low instance expense (unwined), good profit!

    Barb B: Enters SoT, has it wined. Runs up to one or two mobs at a time, but focuses on one (the other one hammering away at him). Squad picks them off one by one.

    -The problem here is:

    1) Barbs have the highest HP per Vit and best skills for tanking hits
    2) Barbs have the fastest sustained speed and best AoE aggro skills

    - So Barb B is not exploiting his strengths and is playing as a solo class which isn't working. Of course this is a very common problem, so it would take some learning on the part of the squads and Barbs to pull off. The squad would have to play like a squad. It can be done, and it's how Trophy Modes are run successfully. We have the uber weapons to pull off very fast AoE kills thanks to the rank sale and maturity of the game.

    If people can learn this: APS becomes less significant.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Finra - Sanctuary
    Finra - Sanctuary Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    Barbs aren't a solo class, so why are barbs dealing with high repair bills? Why do barbs complain about high repair bills when BMs and Sins who tank don't? What about archers that pay for every single hit?

    Barb A: Enters Seat of Torment unwined. Barb A rounds up some mobs as squad follows. Barb stops, works his skills, and the squad AOE's the **** out of them. -Low repairs, low instance expense (unwined), good profit!

    Barb B: Enters SoT, has it wined. Runs up to one or two mobs at a time, but focuses on one (the other one hammering away at him). Squad picks them off one by one.

    -The problem here is:

    1) Barbs have the highest HP per Vit and best skills for tanking hits
    2) Barbs have the fastest sustained speed and best AoE aggro skills

    - So Barb B is not exploiting his strengths and is playing as a solo class which isn't working. Of course this is a very common problem, so it would take some learning on the part of the squads and Barbs to pull off. The squad would have to play like a squad. It can be done, and it's how Trophy Modes are run successfully. We have the uber weapons to pull off very fast AoE kills thanks to the rank sale and maturity of the game.

    If people can learn this: APS becomes less significant.

    In any part of the game barbs DO end up soloing a bit. Or otherwise they'd be too squad reliant and that would suck quite a bit.

    To those that don't really think or care about a barbs repair fee, they'd let the barb take all the dmg while they jus do slower dmg or wait till he's gotten full aggro to start attacking; but for some others there are people who OFFERS to tank for the barb. I tank small groups of mobs on my sin in FCC, tank 1/2 of the bosses on veno, and therefore the repair cost wouldn't be so high for barbs. It shouldn't be over 100k. However my sin often needs to repair daggers and it costs 50-60k per repair. That's almost the same as the repair fee I had to pay for this barb at 51k.

    There was someone at the archosaur platform yesterday yelling out "Clerics should start charging people for heals" and "sins should start charging for aps" .... I really hope this won't happen (this whole I charge you! business)... even more problems for everyone..
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