With the new classes coming out, are (new) barbs going to die? o:

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

I was on my Assassin earlier, got in an FF squad and as usual the whole squad is ready-ish, except for the Barbarian.
Just for like..you know, boredom's sake I parked my BM at the veno/barb starting spot just check it out while I watch a movie on my other screen and nomnom my food.

Anyway, I saw a total of 12 venos being made, and 1 barb over the course of..~2 hours. Give or take I surely missed 1 or 2 because I was watching my movie. But I think that's pretty accurate (On heaven's tear at least) as to how scarce Barbarians are.
Throughout leveling my assassin, I realized that in the lower level BHs Barbarians are almost non existent, but luckily you don't need them for those BHs.
As I leveled up more, I realized that a few more barbs were available, after asking them how long they've been on their barb. I quickly noticed how the majority of them have answered in a manner that usually came down to; "Barb is now my alt, I just play it once in a while. My new main is my BM/Sin/Archer (3 most named classes)"

So, my question is to the people, with this new expansion coming up. How do you think the "new" generation of players, that will go on and swarm the new classes will be able to manage with the lack of barbarians around?
This of course has no effect on most of the "high" leveled and "decently" geared folks out there who'll just hyper solo FF for themselves, or have a friend do it.
I'm talking about that one level 5x archer that got bored of his/her archer and now decided to make a Mystic/Seeker. How do you think it's going to turn out for him/her?

This topic has no real...value in particular, just wanted to see opinions on this. Maybe give the staff a view on how unappealing the main tanking class is, maybe they'll do something about it (No, I'm not a comedian, I just crack a good joke once in a while).

Yush.

Renza - Raging Tide

yea they do need to do something about the barb class atm, its just more of a hp hungry pk class around end game if one ever gets there, simply cos its prob getting boring to simply be the meat of the squad causing no major damage whilst in tiger form while the 2 new classes (psy and sin) came in and took some of the barb population away that were eager for a DD change,
now we got another 2 classes coming up, a seeker that could possibly be a potential tank *giving its defense level buffs*, dunno about actual agro skills but suppose we'll see, eitherway, barbs have been harder and harder to get for things, i think this expansion will realy hit the fan for the barb population

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Barbs are becoming more obsolete because of the amount of aggro damage generates. Most barbs endgame only TW, PK, or re-stat to a higher APS to remain useful.

If PWI fixed the variety of barb aggro skills more would be useful and roll as a barb. Why roll something that's either not useful or only useful for buffs? Hell, before I run Nirvana duo with my wife, I make sure we barb buff ourselves. It happens fairly often in a random Nirvana squad that someone has a barb alt they buff the squad with before coming back on their BM/sin/archer/cleric main. So all in all, barbs are more scarce because they're more obsolete, the more damage per second people get. I don't think either new class will make a difference at all than was already done. It would likely just mean more of the same.

Shulkie - Dreamweaver

^ what janus said - high refined high APS DD BMs and Sins mean barbs can't hold agro with existing skillset - it get's boring when your job get's repeatedly taken away by other classes (zeal genie is not better than veno, but if entire squad has them, who needs veno for pulling?) and all you are used for is to get a couple of nice buffs

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear

Pretty simple, if they just change the amount of aggro 1 damage generates to like 1/4 or less of the aggro it produces now.


Barbs don't die they just go into hiding. It's winter, most have hibernated. b:cute But some do get killed off by them mean poachers.........

Quilue - Sanctuary

I think a lot of the instance changes made the problem worse. Nirvana bosses resetting aggro is one of them. Most of the time the bosses go after the cleric first after sealing too.

TT bosses. Steelation running around all over the ****ing place doesn't help either. Stun sleep 5.0 how is a barb supposed to keep his squad mates alive? We have tried conventional squads, but the Green guy rampaged around the room regardless of who had aggro. It was so stupid. Then there was Amrageddon. This guy went off of his platform to chase a cleric around. Not as bad as green guy, but pretty stupid nonetheless.

The barb's job is to protect the cleric and take hits, but he can't do that very well with these bosses doing this.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think a lot of the instance changes made the problem worse. Nirvana bosses resetting aggro is one of them. Most of the time the bosses go after the cleric first after sealing too.

TT bosses. Steelation running around all over the ****ing place doesn't help either. Stun sleep 5.0 how is a barb supposed to keep his squad mates alive? We have tried conventional squads, but the Green guy rampaged around the room regardless of who had aggro. It was so stupid. Then there was Amrageddon. This guy went off of his platform to chase a cleric around. Not as bad as green guy, but pretty stupid nonetheless.

The barb's job is to protect the cleric and take hits, but he can't do that very well with these bosses doing this.

its also a lot easier for a barb to hold aggro on a moveing target than a 5 aps char

Quilue - Sanctuary

lol...not really. The issue is not holding aggro, it's about keeping the boss hitting you while having it. No one should have any problem holding aggro as a 5.0.

Man - Raging Tide

no

Barbs > all

no one can take awaya barbs innate pwnage.

Born_Free - Harshlands

Unfortunately, when the first BM's discovered 5.0, everybody who was around at the time had a very, very bad feeling about it. It's not only expensive in some cases, but pretty tricky for barbs who don't understand APS to restat to 5.0 just to keep up with the Jones's (AKA: Blademasters, Assassins, and just about every other 5.0 class.)

To the dismay of most barbs, they've been reduced to nothing more than a group of fuzzy baldemasters with more HP and occassionally fewer APS. There aren't a whole lot of things that Barbs can do that the 5.0 classes can't....which is choaking the life out of the class in general, similar to how Psychics have been beating down the Wizard population. (Wizards have always been an underplayed class along with Archers, and the numbers have been improving, but they are still underplayed in comparison.) (I also mention that the number of Psychics themselves are few in number, let alone those in competition with Wizards for DD.)

I would suggest nurfing APS, but everybody knows that's never going to happen, and we all know it.

I also agree with the Zeal genies...everybody knows ever since they came out with the Earthflame ability, Venomancers have been replaced by anybody with a decent Zeal. It's a terrible shame, but what do you do about it? Get rid of the genies?
You do that, and everybody who has been bottle-fed with genies QQ's about it, like the 5.0 classes would if you nurfed the APS.

Darcwolf - Lost City

I've been complaining about this for a while, if I barb wants survivability and wants to be a good tank you have to put alot into vit, or spend a ton of money and put it into your gear. This leaves you with minimum str. which makes it VERY hard to hold aggro.

I literally have a keyboard macro that just basically holds down the flesh ream key, and even then I lose aggro with +10 GX. And its even worse if your sage cause you don't do as much damage. They need to SERIOUSLY do something about barb tiger form skills, like roar, flesh ream, sunder.

Also they should barb a stun that actually works! cough79skillcough, the person is unstunned before you are done using the skill. At least make it last 3-4 secs, or increase the chances of mighty swing, since every other class has a 100% stun/seal/sleep skill.

That being said, my barb is pretty much retired also because there is no use for us anymore when 5.0 bms/sins can just tank everything.

Watain - Raging Tide

Even if barbs get replaced, I'm sticking to mine...
Hell, I'm glad if I have a 5 APS in squad to tank stuff, less work for me. I still get plenty of invites to instances, if not as tank, then as DD. Barbs are a pain in the butt to level, but I love my endgame life.

Plus: Nothing makes you feel as good as when a boss whips out a nice AOE and everyone but yourself drops dead b:laugh

Joshcja - Sanctuary

no new classes will not wipe barbs out

thats what astroid-the-size-of-texas strikes are for

and no bruce willis will not save you

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

The way squads are formed, and the way people build their toon like sins & bm's, you can never tell who will take aggro.

For the barbs, it's frustrating
For the clerics it's a mess
For the DD'ers it's risky to even begin to attack.

Try going into bh69 on pole. Most squads have a hard time because of the constant aggro switching between the dd'ers. Hell, my sin can't even attack pole in there cause she takes aggro as soon as she starts hitting, even with a freakin bow...

and as far as the number of barbs go...look at normal chat in arch at HH; Half the time squads can't even find a barb to do their bh's.

Lola_Frost - Sanctuary

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Pretty simple, if they just change the amount of aggro 1 damage generates to like 1/4 or less of the aggro it produces now.


Barbs don't die they just go into hiding. It's winter, most have hibernated. b:cute But some do get killed off by them mean poachers.........

Hehe, I have been acquiring a decent amount of barb hides, the fur makes nice warm coats and blankets, sorry Ive been stealing all your barbs b:chuckleb:cute although, the OP ones manage to make it out alive , but nakey O,o

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

if the new seeker class have better tanking capablities then barbs then they will for surely be replaced. they even have a + def lvl buff that is pretty good.

the only way i dont see seekers replacing barbs is if seekers dont have aggro skills. if they dong have aggro gaining skills then barbs will still have a use. but then again i still doubt it even if they dont have them. seekers are really looking to be the best tanks in game once they are released. not to mention they are alot cooler and more traditional looking tanks then barbs.

but we will see. at the very least they will replace "tank BMs" for sure.

Lutirica - Harshlands

my idea here is give barbs:
1. x2 HP in human form
2. x4 HP in barb form
3. Maybe a nice barb sheild or something like it
4. New skills that make it easier to kill mobs
4. more powerful mobs (where barbs are needed) so squads need their help or they will die.

Or something else to keep barbs being the main offencive class

LifeHunting - Lost City

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if the new seeker class have better tanking capablities then barbs then they will for surely be replaced. they even have a + def lvl buff that is pretty good.

the only way i dont see seekers replacing barbs is if seekers dont have aggro skills. if they dong have aggro gaining skills then barbs will still have a use. but then again i still doubt it even if they dont have them. seekers are really looking to be the best tanks in game once they are released. not to mention they are alot cooler and more traditional looking tanks then barbs.

but we will see. at the very least they will replace "tank BMs" for sure.

Highly unlikely considering Seekers won't be able to use fists ^.^

Basically meaning that they may have a split second of getting arggo but the moment that demon spark animation ends it's back on the fist BM xP

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Lutirica - Harshlands wrote: »

my idea here is give barbs:
1. x2 HP in human formarmageddon
2. x4 HP in barb formya...you try killing a 100k hp barb in pk
3. Maybe a nice barb sheild or something like ityou mean invoke? solid sheild?
4. New skills that make it easier to kill mobsthats what DD's are for
4. more powerful mobs (where barbs are needed) so squads need their help or they will die.*points to 3-x*

Or something else to keep barbs being the main offencive class

have you ever PLAYED pwi? much less any mmo with a tank class?

*facefloor*

LifeHunting - Lost City

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

have you ever PLAYED pwi? much less any mmo with a tank class?

*facefloor*

There was a reason I avoided that post.....

Evict - Heavens Tear

OP waited ~2 hours to start an FF, just because of the Barb? Should've replaced him for a 5.0 BM/Sin.

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

OP waited ~2 hours to start an FF, just because of the Barb? Should've replaced him for a 5.0 BM/Sin.

Nuuu, that was afterwards, while I was doing something else other than PW. Just out of boredom.

Anyway, it seems some missed the point, it's not about classes replacing barbs. It's about the "new generation" of players, when new classes come out a massive amount of new low level players are pumped in to the game.
But with how unappealing playing a Barbarian is these days, I wonder how it'll work out with the ratio of other classes to barbarians available.

BH69 is going to suck for people who'll need it, same goes for frost at the level 80's etc. Simply because there's going to be too many other classes being made and leveled compared to barbs.

Oh btw, let's not turn this in to some APS/Agro control issue, I didn't even mention end game ._.

Sheikah - Raging Tide

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Nuuu, that was afterwards, while I was doing something else other than PW. Just out of boredom.

Anyway, it seems some missed the point, it's not about classes replacing barbs. It's about the "new generation" of players, when new classes come out a massive amount of new low level players are pumped in to the game.
But with how unappealing playing a Barbarian is these days, I wonder how it'll work out with the ratio of other classes to barbarians available.

BH69 is going to suck for people who'll need it, same goes for frost at the level 80's etc. Simply because there's going to be too many other classes being made and leveled compared to barbs.

Oh btw, let's not turn this in to some APS/Agro control issue, I didn't even mention end game ._.

Well, though I haven't camped out at the Veno/Barb starting area (as of yet), to see how many people currently create barbs but I don't think new barbs will die out completely. At least not permanently, sure people will scramble to play the new classes but will these new people like or be good at playing them? If their not they'll move on to another class till they find "the one('s)" that suits them and play that. I myself have played every class and then Sins came out, I tried them and finally found one class I like and play well. But that's my opinion.

KedgeSniper - Lost City

bm with decent gear can easily lure waves. Only issue its the magic hall before 3rd boss.

Other than that.. its pretty easy pulling mobs with bm, just alpha before runin back or tree n aoe stun them

Merlox - Raging Tide

bars > all other classes for me i have a bm and a sin and a wiz dont like any but barb

Born_Free - Harshlands

To be quite honest, I don't trust BM's or Assassins to play the Tank game. There's a reason why the Barbarian class is what it is: it was designed to tank bosses, have ridiculously high HP, and hit like a truck.
I've never liked the idea of one class having one job (which is why I'm so in love with Mystics because of their heal/rez ability, and despise Zeal genies with Earthflame due to them taking the Venomancer's lure job,) but the fact that barbs are easily replaced by 5.0 characters is getting ridiculous.

And then 5.0 came out, and suddenly the barbs weren't needed as much. And when the first BM's found out that with a charm and 5.0, they could solo instances, it just got worse from then on. Adding the Assassin class which ALSO had 5.0 made it even worse.
If Seekers are allowed 5.0, you can bet that most Blademasters (and maybe even Assassins) will find themselves out of a job...


(And by the way, Barbs aren't the main offensive class. Ever since 5aps came out, there have been more people rolling BM's and Sins than Barbs, I promise you that. Most of the barbs who are endgame level now were here before the expansion.)

And to answer your question, I doubt that Tsubakey even knows what a Barbarian is, let alone the mechanics of using one in game.

Cortimis - Dreamweaver

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But with how unappealing playing a Barbarian is these days

Ok that tears it, according to whom?! I am so sick of the "barbs are obsolete, barb class is dead, there are no barbs" nonsense. I can't even count how many times I have put into World Chat "Bored (insert level at time) barb LF something to do" to get not a single PM in response. You guys think barb class is dead? Then blame yourself and all the other people who can't be bothered to take "unappealing" class along.

But I know how to solve that problem, let's go make a bunch of threads on the forums for all the new people to see about how "unappealing" playing a barb is! That will solve the problem regarding the barb population! Hell, it might even convince the new players to not take them on squads either! Awesome! Then the few barbs that are left will never be able to level and will give up to roll a different class...good job.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Uh... I'm loling at the post above...

As a Cleric, I actually don't trust Barbs to tank.

Give Fuzzies more AOE, more tiger form skills, and a higher DPS in fuzzy form, and yeah... I'd be less weary of having a barb tank.

But too many times has the freaking barb run up, and started munching a single mob, no AOE, while 4 others throw rocks at it. One IH, and it's game over for me, the cleric, and then party wipe, because scrolls are expensive, and I could put that money into another mana charm.

BM's at least go nuts with AOE, and I know all of the mobs will be focused on the BM. I can stack IH on the BM, and then focus on the Psy that just pulled aggro from a mob that only got hit in the first AOE.

Maybe the BM wasn't meant to be a tank, but damn, doing a BH takes about 20-30% less time with a BM tanking.

And don't even get me started on BH59. I tanked that on my Veno many times. I've asked wiz or psy to tank it, so many people are ignorant. Oh well. Magic = arcane tank. Whatever.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

As a Cleric, I actually don't trust Barbs to tank.

Halo sound effect : betrayed
b:laugh

Cortimis - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Uh... I'm loling at the post above...

As a Cleric, I actually don't trust Barbs to tank.

And don't even get me started on BH59. I tanked that on my Veno many times. I've asked wiz or psy to tank it, so many people are ignorant. Oh well. Magic = arcane tank. Whatever.

BH59= interrupt the spells, problem solved. And honestly, I have to admit, from the sounds of it, you are one of the reasons why I usually scream out in normal chat at the BH guy after standing around like an idiot for 30 minutes: " t(-.-t) gtfo then noob clerics, my genie heals better anyways". I mean seriously, the time I stand around like a moron trying to find some winged diva willing to deign to grace us noobish mortals with her holy presence I might as well just go farm the coin for a charm and solo the ****.

Maybe I should just get my Veno wife a Herc and make her tank stuff while I just DD. BM's may "think" they are better tanks, but I "know" I'm a better axe DD. /burn b:chuckle

IDecision - Raging Tide

Im sorry didnt feel like reading that wall of text so ill just give an opinion on the topic title Yes there are better tank classes, but i suppose some still need our buffs... b:shocked either way it doesnt matter lol. fast or slow run whatever it is, its gonna get ran b:angry