Sir. Archer... [Petition]

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

GrimReaperHC wrote: »

Today we had a talk in faction chat about capping the aps. I thought, if there really is going to be a cap for example on 3, are the archers going to switch back to bow ?
This will make me happy.

if DPS(bow)>DPS(fists) they will return to bow.
archers are math freaks b:avoid

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

GrimReaperHC wrote: »

Today we had a talk in faction chat about capping the aps. I thought, if there really is going to be a cap for example on 3, are the archers going to switch back to bow ?
This will make me happy.

Yes please. It would balance the game a little bit for both PVE and PVP. Why the hell did they put in 5 aps anyway? did they even test it? or just said "hmmm lets see I like the number 5 lets put cap of 5 then". And no real testing happened... thats my guess.

Imo this looks like an original version of a private server, where **** like that happens when people put money in.

Note, regarding this thread: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=926992
It seems that DPS will be nerfed, who knows when or how but there are plans for it. So it is just a matter of time... and... interest from PW administration team.

Rikaraa - Sanctuary

Claws and Fist = BM
Sling and Crossbow/Bow = Archers

Claw/Fist on Archers = fail

If you archers want to use claws and fist then make a BM, what was the point of making a archer if claws are the weapons you want to use. I'm a cleric and you don't see trying to use fist. I mean seriously people. And you wonder why archers die so much in nirvanas. No its not the cleric its the fact that you CANNOT do melee. b:angry I should let every clawcher (claw archer) freaking die.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! GM make fist and claws BM only! Hell, I'll even help pay for that patch to be added!

Daizengar - Sanctuary

As a BM, I don't care what aps the archers have. I can keep aggro from most of them.

But as a CLERIC, I find most of them to be a big nuisance. They die in two hits and blame me for not healing them DESPITE the fact that they die in just a few seconds. Even random aggro from Nirv bosses is enough time to kill most of them.

Yes, there are archers that can tank. But the issue is since its easier for archers to reach 5 because of the rank 4 chest, most of them decide to rambo every boss in existence without proper gear.

Archers don't even get BLOODPAINT, a clear undeniable sign that they are supposed to be ranged attackers, not melee.

PW Devs really should seriously remove that interval bonus from the rank 4 armors. Atleast that way, archers can farm their Nirv leggings and have atleast somewhat decent defenses and HP instead of being dead whiny 5.0s.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Rikaraa - Sanctuary wrote: »

Claws and Fist = BM
Sling and Crossbow/Bow = Archers

Claw/Fist on Archers = fail

If you archers want to use claws and fist then make a BM, what was the point of making a archer if claws are the weapons you want to use. I'm a cleric and you don't see trying to use fist. I mean seriously people. And you wonder why archers die so much in nirvanas. No its not the cleric its the fact that you CANNOT do melee. b:angry I should let every clawcher (claw archer) freaking die.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! GM make fist and claws BM only! Hell, I'll even help pay for that patch to be added!

b:cute Guess which cleric ain't getting in my squads

Daizengar - Sanctuary

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:cute Guess which cleric ain't getting in my squads

We already got set squads. We dun need you.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

We already got set squads. We dun need you.

& your "set" squad consists of fail squishy archers so that your friend cleric is so upset with them? Maybe you should find new squads.

grimreaperhc

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

& your "set" squad consists of fail squishy archers so that your friend cleric is so upset with them? Maybe you should find new squads.

Maybe we should stick on topic now.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Rikaraa - Sanctuary wrote: »

Claws and Fist = BM
Sling and Crossbow/Bow = Archers

Claw/Fist on Archers = fail

If you archers want to use claws and fist then make a BM, what was the point of making a archer if claws are the weapons you want to use. I'm a cleric and you don't see trying to use fist. I mean seriously people. And you wonder why archers die so much in nirvanas. No its not the cleric its the fact that you CANNOT do melee. b:angry I should let every clawcher (claw archer) freaking die.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! GM make fist and claws BM only! Hell, I'll even help pay for that patch to be added!

1) "claw/fist + archers" = fail.
do they have highest dps that way? yes
does it cause any problem if they can control their aggro? no
is it therefore better for the squad? yes
are you stupid? yes

2)"why make archer and not bm"
assume that with the new expansion psychics get an awesome tome, the "Healing techniques for Psychics". It boost the healing ability of their spells by 42000% so the aoe healing spell becomes enough to keep all the squad alive, much better than a cleric (it heals for 10k hp per sec).
suddenly, nobody wants a cleric but they want a psy to do the healing job. would u use the tome, even if it's clearly just for psychics, to keep your job and get invites in squads or stick to your Christmas tome and dont get any squads?

Daizengar - Sanctuary

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

& your "set" squad consists of fail squishy archers so that your friend cleric is so upset with them? Maybe you should find new squads.

Which are part of random squads, or fillers in case someone isn't available. b:chuckle

Another thing, have you even played a cleric? Have any of these archers bashing the clerics played a cleric with squishy archers dying in a blink of an eye and accuse the cleric of 'not healing'?. Maybe you should try it out first before you complain about them

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Sir, Cleric



Stop focusing on ressing the idiots that got killed by horse bosses and heal the guy that's tanking the boss.

Rikaraa - Sanctuary

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

2)"why make archer and not bm"
assume that with the new expansion psychics get an awesome tome, the "Healing techniques for Psychics". It boost the healing ability of their spells by 42000% so the aoe healing spell becomes enough to keep all the squad alive, much better than a cleric (it heals for 10k hp per sec).
suddenly, nobody wants a cleric but they want a psy to do the healing job. would u use the tome, even if it's clearly just for psychics, to keep your job and get invites in squads or stick to your Christmas tome and dont get any squads?

That didn't really answer the question i posted. First, maybe you should come up with a theoretical situation that is somewhat atleast realistic. But, even if Psy heals do improve where it rivals or surpasses the cleric, the fact that Psys had a heal to begin with means they are functioning within their class designs. Archers were however designed to be shooting things. They wear armor that isnt meant for taking heavy blows. Their real weapon's damage comes from dex, not str. They don't even get Bloodpaint, a buff designed for melee classes. They clearly weren't designed with melee in mind, no matter how you look at it. Even clawbarbs make more sense. Yet every archer decides to go upclose knowing they die in a few hits, then moan about their exp like it's our fault

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Rikaraa - Sanctuary wrote: »

That didn't really answer the question i posted. First, maybe you should come up with a theoretical situation that is somewhat atleast realistic. But, even if Psy heals do improve where it rivals or surpasses the cleric, the fact that Psys had a heal to begin with means they are functioning within their class designs. Archers were however designed to be shooting things. They wear armor that isnt meant for taking heavy blows. Their real weapon's damage comes from dex, not str. They don't even get Bloodpaint, a buff designed for melee classes. They clearly weren't designed with melee in mind, no matter how you look at it. Even clawbarbs make more sense. Yet every archer decides to go upclose knowing they die in a few hits, then moan about their exp like it's our fault

actually what i said is that this tome will be designed for psys and make them better than clerics. clerics could use it. would you opt to make your char better or nerf yourself?
but i agree that the example is unrealistic.

i agree that according to the lore an archer shoots stuff (although in most movies archer do have daggers or short swords..).
however it's a fact that a fist archer will have better dps.
the dilemma is whether you will stick to role-playing or improve your char.

but your problem isnt really the fists it's aggro stealing.
if someone cannot tank a boss they should not steal aggro -agreed.
and if they do and die they should not qq (as long as the tank does his job ofc).
but that doesnt mean that they should nerf their dmg to the point that it's insignificant.
that's like asking a psy to DD in white voodoo or a wiz to unequip his weapon

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Which are part of random squads, or fillers in case someone isn't available. b:chuckle

Another thing, have you even played a cleric? Have any of these archers bashing the clerics played a cleric with squishy archers dying in a blink of an eye and accuse the cleric of 'not healing'?. Maybe you should try it out first before you complain about them

Yes I have a 101 cleric & never had a single person QQ to me about me being a bad healer or dying at my fault.

Also you don't need to lvl up another class to know how it works...

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sir, Cleric



Stop focusing on ressing the idiots that got killed by horse bosses and heal the guy that's tanking the boss.

The barb said it. b:chuckle

Daizengar - Sanctuary

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

actually what i said is that this tome will be designed for psys and make them better than clerics. clerics could use it. would you opt to make your char better or nerf yourself?
but i agree that the example is unrealistic.

i agree that according to the lore an archer shoots stuff (although in most movies archer do have daggers or short swords..).
however it's a fact that a fist archer will have better dps.
the dilemma is whether you will stick to role-playing or improve your char.

but your problem isnt really the fists it's aggro stealing.
if someone cannot tank a boss they should not steal aggro -agreed.
and if they do and die they should not qq (as long as the tank does his job ofc).
but that doesnt mean that they should nerf their dmg to the point that it's insignificant.
that's like asking a psy to DD in white voodoo or a wiz to unequip his weapon

Regardless of design, I don't think anyone complains about clawchers who have enough def/hp to survive or tank. The problem is the ones who absolutely insist on on 5.0ing and die in 2 seconds.

Then, the clerics have a choice: not res and focus on the tank, which means less DD, period and probably whining archers. Or, attempt to res then just to see them die 30 seconds later and possibly put the real tank and everyone else' life in jeopardy. Generally, its lose-lose for the cleric.

And in regards to aggro control, most of these squishy 5.0s won't even think about reducing their DD even a slight bit for proper tanks to perform their job. There's many 4.0 BMs/Barbs out there who can tank, yet are missing that tome/Nirv pants necessary to match the interval from the crappy rank 4 chest. Thus the interval should be removed from rank so everyone farms their interval fairly.

Weapon choice is also becoming a problem among the non 5.0 crowd. Archers who choose to use a weak fist over a bow, despite having no interval gear except rank chest. An example that actually happened: Archer with only rank 4 chest for int refusing to use his TT99 gold bow in favor of some TT70 green fists, believing he does more damage with them... Of course that person was booted for incompetence, but as more and more people see the lure of fist/claw, the more this problem will increase. And it's something that can negatively affect the lower levels.

Well, bottom line is: Stick with your bow if you can't take the hits. Less DD is a hell of a lot better then NO DD because you're dead the entire fight.

Woneo - Harshlands

I has 9k hp.
I can haz nirvana?

Quilue - Sanctuary

Claw/Fist on Archers = fail

If you archers want to use claws and fist then make a BM, what was the point of making a archer if claws are the weapons you want to use.

The whole purpose of using claws for archers is to farm. Why do people ask such questions as "why not re-roll to a BM if you want to use claws?"

I can use the gear I already have to farm, or I can buy a whole new set of heavy armor, just so I can farm. Makes sense doesn't it? You want to pay for the heavy armor and -tome? cuz then I'll re-roll. You want to buy me all the gear that I want? cuz then I won't use claws to farm. I'll even restat.

Rikaraa - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can use the gear I already have to farm, or I can buy a whole new set of heavy armor, just so I can farm. Makes sense doesn't it? You want to pay for the heavy armor and -tome? cuz then I'll re-roll. You want to buy me all the gear that I want? cuz then I won't use claws to farm. I'll even restat.

Claws are not needed in order for a person to farm. Archers are just as efficient in squads with a bow. If you want to use claws during your own time then go ahead but why use them in squads where you might cause more trouble for the cleric?

Quilue - Sanctuary

No they're not. My +5 Deicide at 5.0 out DDs Asterelle's +12 Jaden Emperor. The constant sparking just puts the DPS over any bow possible, and DPS is important because squad mates all wants a run done as fast as possible.

If I didn't have claws, I wouldn't be in half the squads that have invited me. Then again, just don't invite archers with bad hp. Besides, squads generally prefer claw archers because a boss random aggros, runs to the ranged characters, and then the BMs and Sins have to stop their spark DDing to get aggro back. It's more annoying to have a bow archer in a run.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

Rikaraa - Sanctuary wrote: »

That didn't really answer the question i posted. First, maybe you should come up with a theoretical situation that is somewhat atleast realistic. But, even if Psy heals do improve where it rivals or surpasses the cleric, the fact that Psys had a heal to begin with means they are functioning within their class designs. Archers were however designed to be shooting things. They wear armor that isnt meant for taking heavy blows. Their real weapon's damage comes from dex, not str. They don't even get Bloodpaint, a buff designed for melee classes. They clearly weren't designed with melee in mind, no matter how you look at it. Even clawbarbs make more sense. Yet every archer decides to go upclose knowing they die in a few hits, then moan about their exp like it's our fault

Easy. Because squads want APS users and archers can't be assed to make one character for farming and one for general playing. It's already bad enough that they have to get two sets of weapons, providing for two characters for the purpose of farming or just plain getting into runs is ****. You close minded people who cry about archers = range happen to be the reasons archers went claw in the first place.

And just FYI, my friend's alt BM has +9 claws. I have +6 claws. I have higher aggro on a boss. And yes, I'm pure dex and have to wear crappy rings to even equip those claws. I still prefer to use my bow, but can't deny that it's easier to get into runs with 5.0 aps than 0.91 aps, and the runs end faster too.

Lalius - Lost City

Rikaraa - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archers are just as efficient in squads with a bow.

Sorry but that's just not true. It is a FACT that claws have higher dps than bows for archers, you can dislike it all you want. You can talk about if it's good, you can argue that archers to squishy to survive should stick to bows, but you cannot dismiss the fact that clawchers just do more damage than bow using archers. There is no argument for an archer that can survive melee to not use claws to farm. And "your class is not designed for it" is no argument as well. If it works, it works.

qqpwi

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Nirvana gives horrible players a chance to farm and make money relatively successfully. If someone dies from taking aggro in Nirvana, they probably deserve it.

b:bye

caught in the act of trolling b:bye michael stop trolling noob!

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

ehh, squishy DDs, help your cleric and spread around boss

i find that most ppl dont get how helpful this behavior is.

when boss aggro on you, he turn to your side to hit you (easy to spot that you have aggro) which gives few seconds more for cleric to respond (especially when you are high evasion char, because boss miss a lot).

when you are making group butt sex with rest of DDs in one spot, then cler wont be able to see that you aggroed until you get hit, and sometimes it is too late to save you. cler need to cancel previous spell, and switch to you - which cant be done instantly.


b:bye

Eoria - Harshlands

Rikaraa - Sanctuary wrote: »

Claws are not needed in order for a person to farm. Archers are just as efficient in squads with a bow. If you want to use claws during your own time then go ahead but why use them in squads where you might cause more trouble for the cleric?

There are a few cases against an archer using claws in a squad.

Nirvana is not one of them.

Stop making the rest of us clerics look bad. b:bye

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

a buff designed for melee classes. They clearly weren't designed with melee in mind,

Venos were OBVIOUSLY not designed to be melee as well, hence no BP, nor tons of melee fox form skills... no wait...

Tojop - Dreamweaver

Daizengar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Another thing, have you even played a cleric? Have any of these archers bashing the clerics played a cleric with squishy archers dying in a blink of an eye and accuse the cleric of 'not healing'?. Maybe you should try it out first before you complain about them

I've played a cleric, and I keep the archers alive most of the time. When they die, they know better than to complain about not being healed, because they're not idiots. I'm not "one of these archers bashing a cleric," I'm a cleric bashing a cleric. lrn2healnub

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

There are a few cases against an archer using claws in a squad.

Nirvana is not one of them.

Stop making the rest of us clerics look bad. b:bye

Seems I'm not alone.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

when you are making group butt sex with rest of DDs in one spot, then cler wont be able to see that you aggroed until you get hit, and sometimes it is too late to save you. cler need to cancel previous spell, and switch to you - which cant be done instantly.


b:bye

erm, isnt this the point of nirvana? 5aps classes exclude everyone else so they can have privacy in their nirvana runs.

Wenomus - Dreamweaver

Q：5.0什么的讲两句
A：这是游戏发展到某个阶段所要面临的具有偶然性的问题，这个问题会通过后续的版本开发逐步使其影响变弱， 继而变得不尖锐，这个后续版本也许是明年的大型资料片，目前正在考量各职业的持续成长方向及成长后的主要玩 法。我想说的是，我们经历过很多阶段性的偶然问题，比如武器模型雷同、凤凰传奇、妖精抓蛋、****，我们 跟很多老玩家一起经历了这些，但这些到最后都成了过眼云烟，我们还在这里。说到底，每个历史时期总会有主要 矛盾，随着发展，主要矛盾会淡化直至消失，而留下的人就是变革的见证者。（这话讲得好烂）换种说法，我们会 寻求不激烈不肉疼的方式淡化这个问题，只是还需要一些时间，让尽可能多的人不感到疼。（能理解的明白我说什 么，不能理解的且随意理解）


First point is that the 5.0aps issue was not an intended development (happened by "chance") This issue will be slowly nerfed but not for the coming expansion, maybe the next major expansion during next year. However, the 'nerf' will not be too great. At the moment their emphasis is on character growth and end game play styles of each class

So long 5.0 !

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

erm, isnt this the point of nirvana? 5aps classes exclude everyone else so they can have privacy in their nirvana runs.

always thought it is about giving boss gang bang. but that works best from multiple sides, not one spot =S