Is it still worth saving for a legendary pet...

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

Apologies for wall'o'text.

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now this is what i was talking about... You'll have to excuse my skepticism but after repeatedly reading claims about how only hercs were in any manner useful for Frost, i was a bit outraged to actually make a couple of runs myself and discover my 7x cute rares were certainly adequate...

Discussing specific bosses means that we can narrow things down to specific pets and strategies. Vague claims on the other hand only contribute to create a hostile environment for some venos...

FF is on the lower end of "high level" instance, with the average level of the player base reaching cap quickly, and it's a bit of a special case. A herc isn't necessary for FF, but that doesn't mean that it isn't "worth it".

For the case where the pet is tanking: For very low level squads (around 70-80), a herc is the only pet that can tank certain bosses. It's been awhile and I don't remember the exact numbers, but there was a point in my 7X's that I had to spam heal my herc on most of the bosses, and Fragrance was out of the question. I also tried tanking with my crystaline magmite and my glacial walker at about the same time, with the tough/threaten combo, as well as a sin with rib strike, and neither of them could take it.

Some of the rares may be able to tank sooner than the golems; I never tested that specifically. However, from seeing how the golems and rares compare against the herc in general, I think it's safe to say that a herc requires less healing than any other pet. Everytime you heal your pet, it takes away from potential DD you could be doing. That goes for any pet, herc or not. The difference with a herc is that it requires less healing, which increases your output. If you don't even have the time to pump out a venomous, you won't have time to cast amp. There's a turning point with all pets where you go from spam healing to heal/DD. The benefit of the herc is that this turning point is earlier than all other pets in almost all situations. (The exception being ranged tanking, but in my experience, this is a somewhat rare situation.)

In the case where the pet is not tanking, you have two scenarios: aoe and non-aoe. If there is no aoe (and no random aggro), then it is more efficient to use a DD pet instead of a tank pet. If there is an aoe or random aggro, then this becomes similar to the tanking scenario in which the veno is split between DD'ing and being pet cleric. It's not that only hercs can survive certain bosses, it's that the overall effectiveness of the veno goes down.

Perhaps I shouldn't have included FF in that list. I didn't mean that other pets couldn't survive in that instance. However, it certainly holds for other bosses.

Specifics for aoe/random aggro (in my experience):
- BH
* 89- brim (random aggro only)
* sot
* abaddon
* warsong metal
- TT
* depending on strategy 2-2/3 Astral (there are so many adds that you might need another tank)
* 2-3 Belial
* to some extent 2-X General Feng because of his constant hp debuff
* 3-X Dark Colluseant
* plenty more (most 3-3)
- Nirvana (I don't particularly like nirvana so I don't run it often and don't remember the names, but I do remember healing a lot when not tanking)

I'm tempted to include digging bean chests in rb as well, even though it's a tanking scenario. I tried using my magmite once and he struggled while I was digging. This was with the tough/threaten combo as well as me using genie skills. He actually died at one point. My herc can take out 2 mobs unassisted in about the same amount of time. This may be a little skewed though, as I was lagging hard while the magmite was out. But regardless, the herc is certainly more effective.

I'm sure there are more, these are just the ones that come to mind at the moment.

Is a herc mandetory? No. I've seen venos go into Nirvana, 3-3, Warsong, etc without them. Are other pets as effective? No. Every time I've seen a free pet go up against one of the afore mentioned aoe bosses, it has died. It'll concede that it's possible that the veno behind the pet was fail, but considering how hard my herc gets hit, I'm skeptical of the pet's survivability (especially when you're focusing on keeping yourself alive and not just the pet.)

If and when the pet does go down, you're faced with the choice of revive, new pet, or continue. If you try to revive, you can get caught in a revive loop with the pet getting 1-shotted every time you resummon him (if the aoe hits before you can heal him up, which happens most of the time). If you pull out a new pet, odds are it won't be as good as the first pet you were using, so it will be even harder to keep alive. In these two options, you lose the DD of the veno and in the first option of the pet as well. If you just continue without a pet (the most common option, from what I've seen), you no longer have your bonus 7th party member doing damage. Once a pet dies, it becomes a lose-lose situation. Having a herc almost eliminates this.

One of the other big issues that I don't remember seeing as addressed here is the ability to get a squad. Common belief amongst non-venos is that a veno needs a herc. (Yes, there are exceptions, but it's rare). It's come to the point where most squads from FF level up will require you to have one. Whether this is appropriate or not, it's how things are. Venos are a dime a dozen these days and having a herc gives you a leg up on others. Unless you never look for random squads, then having a herc cuts down on the time of finding a squad.

The original question was "is it still worth [it]?". To that, my answer would have to be yes. The potential for solo revenue, survivability with squads in elite instances, and the ease of getting squads in the first place is well worth it.

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I realize we've all tired of the herc debate, and i personally would love nothing more than to be done with it, but the thing is this is likely to continue for as long as either side insists on treating subjective opinion as established fact.

Agreed. I'll readily admit that not all venos need hercs and that you can "succeed" at this game without them.* But to say that the only way to make money with a herc is TT or that you can't make money with a herc effectively anymore is, imho, ignorant.

* Succeed is in quotes because it means differnt things to different people. To some, it's spending time with friends; to some it's amassing the most money; to some it's levelling fastest. The important thing for each one to decide is what is successful to them, and what do they need to achieve it.

Desdi - Sanctuary

It was a long post but a pleasure to read Mauntille.

I will have to agree with you as I have experienced this first hand. When I did BH99 (Seat of Torment) for the Chrono chain quest, that hard hitting AoE boss (forgot the name) even managed to kill my Hercules (being lvl 93 that time). He was 1-shot. So yes, in those high level instances normal pets will have hard time. I do not want to underestimate normal pets, I've had my Hercules for 3 months only, I know normal pets can do wonders too especially when there is a great Venomancer behind them but you can't do much when your pet is 1-shottable by AoE. Of course my level was too low for that instance but it still came as a surprise for me as I wasn't aware of that particular boss or anything about the said instance.

I didn't really make my points clear in my previous post about why I believe Legendary pets are still worth it but Mauntille has covered pretty much everything. Remember, the legendary pet is worth it, it's amazing but not a necessity.

sleepcat

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If and when the pet does go down, you're faced with the choice of revive, new pet, or continue. If you try to revive, you can get caught in a revive loop with the pet getting 1-shotted every time you resummon him (if the aoe hits before you can heal him up, which happens most of the time). If you pull out a new pet, odds are it won't be as good as the first pet you were using, so it will be even harder to keep alive. In these two options, you lose the DD of the veno and in the first option of the pet as well. If you just continue without a pet (the most common option, from what I've seen), you no longer have your bonus 7th party member doing damage. Once a pet dies, it becomes a lose-lose situation. Having a herc almost eliminates this.

Revive loop? I don't remember any boss that aoes frequently enough that you won't have time to summon/heal before the next aoe hits, as long as you don't time your summon right before an aoe or something.

Aniella - Harshlands

Not all pets are 1 hit from aoe in "hige lvl places" o.o just peps that forget or 2 slow 2 heal lol, or pet is like 10 - 30 lvls lower XD

"Legendary pets are still worth it " they are worth 2 have - only if u have money or time 4 one. but ofc i seen many player quite the game after got their legdary pet. xD just few but lol - think of the wasted time and money.

lol u will may understad this w u quite^^

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

If and when the pet does go down, you're faced with the choice of revive, new pet, or continue. If you try to revive, you can get caught in a revive loop with the pet getting 1-shotted every time you resummon him (if the aoe hits before you can heal him up, which happens most of the time). If you pull out a new pet, odds are it won't be as good as the first pet you were using, so it will be even harder to keep alive. In these two options, you lose the DD of the veno and in the first option of the pet as well. If you just continue without a pet (the most common option, from what I've seen), you no longer have your bonus 7th party member doing damage. Once a pet dies, it becomes a lose-lose situation. Having a herc almost eliminates this.

The smart thing to do is get out of AOE, revive and heal up before sending pet back in. It's not like a player character that has to revive in situ.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

Revive loop ?

A) A herc unbuffed and unhealed gets 1shotted just as bad as any other pet if your not fast enough...
invest in channeling gear ?
C) What Mayfly said.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

So the "revive loop" wasn't a good point, but I have seen it happen. The occasion I had in mind was a squad fighting Belial and his adds at the same time. Looking back I don't know why we didn't just reset and deal with the adds separately, but I've seen it happen enough times that it's something that stuck out to me. It could just be poor timing and/or lag, but it does happen. The point that a herc is better is that it dies less often.

Getting out of the AOE is ideal, but not always possible. In particular, there are places in TT where if you don't clear certain rooms or rooms ahead of you, you're fighting a boss in a small hallway with nasty mobs on either side. There are also doors that will shut and you're stuck in that room. There are strategies to get around these, but not every squad follows them. Most of the high level boss AOEs have a very long range and it's harder to get away from the boss (out of BB/ out of range of the cleric). Plus, most squads wouldn't take too kindly to a veno fleeing the scene when a boss needs to be amp'd and purged, even if only temporarily.

Channelling does help and in some cases makes the difference between a dead pet and a living pet. It also increases your overall DD capabilities. Channel in and of itself doesn't mean that other pets are as good or better than a herc. You're still healing them more than a herc and at the very least, those extra heals could be turned into a venomous here and there.

MageMERC - Harshlands

I have read the whole thread, and this is very interesting and informative. I am saving for a herc which sucks because on harshlands gold has jumped to 800k+.......

Anyway just a couple quick thoughts/questions.

One of the posts indicates nix is better at grinding than herc. I watched an aoe herc grinding vid on youtube in the chrono map I think, and the herc was aggroing 20 mobs while the veno was digging some herbs. What is you guys opinion on this situation: is it not quite as awesome as it first appears? Can you grind faster than this with the nix?

Also, the original question, hasnt been answered in such a way that considers the new expansion. Im thinking of holding off getting my herc until a lvl 100 mystic says that their pets arent as good as the herc - or will they also be able to use a herc. A recent post on 'general discussion' says a mystic will be able to summon multiple pets!!!!!. I'm also wondering if there will be new legendaries........

....at least this gives me more time to save coin while I wait for these answers......

tweakz

MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »

One of the posts indicates nix is better at grinding than herc. I watched an aoe herc grinding vid on youtube in the chrono map I think, and the herc was aggroing 20 mobs while the veno was digging some herbs. What is you guys opinion on this situation: is it not quite as awesome as it first appears? Can you grind faster than this with the nix?

I think I mentioned it depends on mobs/ method / etc. Just inside Valley of the Scarred is about 50 mobs that can be rounded up with a Herc and 2 shot AoE'd (Nova -> Noxious). A Nix or any other pet I know of can't round them up near as good as a Herc. There are also ranged mobs that ranged pets outshine legendaries on. Both the legendary pets are extremely valuable though.

MageMERC - Harshlands

Tweakz.....you answer all my posts hahah. What are your thoughts on the new expension relating to the herc......

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

I wonder if the question will be changed to " is it still worth playing venomancer " after mystic come out . . b:surrender

They got ability to buff auto rez, heal any pet, their pet always on same lv with them, able to summon more than one, aoe still not much known , and unknown how strong is their pets . .

Venomancer is great on debuff and surviving. b:victory

Bellamontage - Lost City

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I wonder if the question will be changed to " is it still worth playing venomancer " after mystic come out . . b:surrender

They got ability to buff auto rez, heal any pet, their pet always on same lv with them, able to summon more than one, aoe still not much known , and unknown how strong is their pets . .

I'd love to see pw actually create a new class instead of just upgrading existing ones with a new title

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Thanks for your answer and sorry for taking so long to respond. It was a very fun weekend. b:sin

Now, i basically do agree that herc benefits enormously from being able to go without heals for longer than any other pet and that this does improve its capabilities as DD on AoE bosses. As i've often pointed out, a herc's DD output is actually on the high end and the number of regular pets that can actually outperform it on this role is rather limited.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

FF is on the lower end of "high level" instance, with the average level of the player base reaching cap quickly, and it's a bit of a special case. A herc isn't necessary for FF, but that doesn't mean that it isn't "worth it".

I'll grant you FF could be considered something of a special case since herc will become an important factor through a certain level range, even if not actually necessary. However whether it's worth it (in something other than subjective terms) should account for the investment necessary to acquire one. Do keep in mind that for herc to be truly useful in FF it should be acquired before 8x, which means at a level range in which resource gathering capabilities remain suboptimal. At current gold prices farming/grinding even just half the SoF required is quite an enormous labor, especially for a 7x or lower...

For the case where the pet is tanking: For very low level squads (around 70-80), a herc is the only pet that can tank certain bosses. It's been awhile and I don't remember the exact numbers, but there was a point in my 7X's that I had to spam heal my herc on most of the bosses, and Fragrance was out of the question. I also tried tanking with my crystaline magmite and my glacial walker at about the same time, with the tough/threaten combo, as well as a sin with rib strike, and neither of them could take it.

A veno that's spam healing is not amping however. The role of a hercless veno becomes so different from that of a veno playing pet cleric to a herc (i don't mean it in any demeaning way) that you could have both in the same squad performing very different roles. Now, we could argue about which is more "convenient" to have around, and i'll readily admit there are some strong arguments favoring the pet cleric (such as freeing the actual cleric for DD duty) but given the advantage of any pet as DD against (?) bosses veno remains a desirable class at the 8x level range regardless of pet being used.

Some of the rares may be able to tank sooner than the golems; I never tested that specifically. However, from seeing how the golems and rares compare against the herc in general, I think it's safe to say that a herc requires less healing than any other pet. Everytime you heal your pet, it takes away from potential DD you could be doing. That goes for any pet, herc or not. The difference with a herc is that it requires less healing, which increases your output. If you don't even have the time to pump out a venomous, you won't have time to cast amp. There's a turning point with all pets where you go from spam healing to heal/DD. The benefit of the herc is that this turning point is earlier than all other pets in almost all situations. (The exception being ranged tanking, but in my experience, this is a somewhat rare situation.)

I quite agree with this although i feel i should point out that what is actually a reasonable expectation may have been taken out of proportion. I would be more than happy if my veno could get the same stats as a level 100 herc at endgame. They're simply that good. But it's not baseline (at least in what concerns high level TT, which predates herc's introduction) and herc's tanking prowess may have well inhibited the development of apropiate strategies for use with regular and rare pets.

In the case where the pet is not tanking, you have two scenarios: aoe and non-aoe. If there is no aoe (and no random aggro), then it is more efficient to use a DD pet instead of a tank pet. If there is an aoe or random aggro, then this becomes similar to the tanking scenario in which the veno is split between DD'ing and being pet cleric. It's not that only hercs can survive certain bosses, it's that the overall effectiveness of the veno goes down.

We are not a straight DD class and a veno's contribution is largely made up by debuffs. Yes, other classes can also contribute in this fashion, but since most relevant effects stack this is rather a moot point. You have to make the call on any given scenario of exactly how you will be making a better contribution to a squad's work. Perhaps spam healing a DD pet will be more effective on some fights, against (?) bosses for instance. Under different circumstances amping, myriad, sparking and keeping Ironwood up (if on a squad full of 5.0 aps for instance) could be more beneficial than bothering keeping a pet alive through AoE.

Yes, herc will doubtlessly improve your capabilities but IMO it isn't as simple or as straightforward as "herc will always be better."

Perhaps I shouldn't have included FF in that list. I didn't mean that other pets couldn't survive in that instance. However, it certainly holds for other bosses.

Specifics for aoe/random aggro (in my experience):
- BH
* 89- brim (random aggro only)
* sot
* abaddon
* warsong metal
- TT
* depending on strategy 2-2/3 Astral (there are so many adds that you might need another tank)
* 2-3 Belial
* to some extent 2-X General Feng because of his constant hp debuff
* 3-X Dark Colluseant
* plenty more (most 3-3)
- Nirvana (I don't particularly like nirvana so I don't run it often and don't remember the names, but I do remember healing a lot when not tanking)

This seems like a good start and it is quite a thorough list. Since it is obviously out of my range verification could prove slow for me. I haven't even gotten around to testing aggro footprint yet. b:embarrass

Just so we are perfectly clear, these are all bosses for which herc is the only pet that can function as DD for practical purposes right?

I'm tempted to include digging bean chests in rb as well, even though it's a tanking scenario. I tried using my magmite once and he struggled while I was digging. This was with the tough/threaten combo as well as me using genie skills. He actually died at one point. My herc can take out 2 mobs unassisted in about the same amount of time. This may be a little skewed though, as I was lagging hard while the magmite was out. But regardless, the herc is certainly more effective.

I'll grant you herc is far better on the logic of the argument alone.

I'm sure there are more, these are just the ones that come to mind at the moment.

Is a herc mandetory? No. I've seen venos go into Nirvana, 3-3, Warsong, etc without them. Are other pets as effective? No. Every time I've seen a free pet go up against one of the afore mentioned aoe bosses, it has died. It'll concede that it's possible that the veno behind the pet was fail, but considering how hard my herc gets hit, I'm skeptical of the pet's survivability (especially when you're focusing on keeping yourself alive and not just the pet.)

I'll once again state that whether to bother keeping a pet alive is worth it is entirely situational and something we would need to discuss on a case by case basis.

If and when the pet does go down, you're faced with the choice of revive, new pet, or continue. If you try to revive, you can get caught in a revive loop with the pet getting 1-shotted every time you resummon him (if the aoe hits before you can heal him up, which happens most of the time). If you pull out a new pet, odds are it won't be as good as the first pet you were using, so it will be even harder to keep alive. In these two options, you lose the DD of the veno and in the first option of the pet as well. If you just continue without a pet (the most common option, from what I've seen), you no longer have your bonus 7th party member doing damage. Once a pet dies, it becomes a lose-lose situation. Having a herc almost eliminates this.

I won't comment on this since it has already been addressed by others.

One of the other big issues that I don't remember seeing as addressed here is the ability to get a squad. Common belief amongst non-venos is that a veno needs a herc. (Yes, there are exceptions, but it's rare). It's come to the point where most squads from FF level up will require you to have one. Whether this is appropriate or not, it's how things are. Venos are a dime a dozen these days and having a herc gives you a leg up on others. Unless you never look for random squads, then having a herc cuts down on the time of finding a squad.

It may well be, but i've always stood against this line of reasoning. On BH59 runs the majority of clerics will insist on having a Barb tank bosses. I've been on squads in which there were at least 3-4 people perfectly capable of handling the job (including myself) and in which stil the cleric would insist on waiting a good half hour for a Barb to show up. Ironically i've even seen them shooting down herc venos which are perfectly capable of soloing the whole thing...

For myself i would rather base my decissions on actual gameplay reasons than popular opinion. Yes, herc will in fact allow you to get squads much easier. Frequently giving your friends generous gifts will also get you into top factions quite easily...

The original question was "is it still worth [it]?". To that, my answer would have to be yes. The potential for solo revenue, survivability with squads in elite instances, and the ease of getting squads in the first place is well worth it.

Some of us don't actually care to solo much of anything. It defeats the purpose of playing an MMO and there are quite a few good quality RPGs out there anyway... Some of us don't actually care to meet the expectations of noobish players out there either, the overwhelming majority of the time hercs are asked for no good reason and when they are it is mostly so that they can have a veno basically solo bosses and then share in the loot... As for survivability in squads herc is only one of a number of different factors. Last time i logged in i squadded with a herc'ed veno which died plenty of times while my Tabby allowed me to survive. And this is not rare in my experience.

I'm not saying herc isn't worth it. I've also seen many herc'ed venos put others with regular pets to shame,but this was basically because of the person behind the keyboard, not the pet they were using. Hercs are worth it if A) they suit your playing style or expectations about capabilities they're cost effective considering what you want to accomplish in the game or C) you just really want one. This is mostly subjective however. Last night i spent more than a herc is worth just going out for drinks. I wouldn't forgive myself however for spending that much on an MMO, even if to get a Nix (which unlike a herc i actually do want) and neither am i willing to dedicate most of my playing time getting one. I don't log to the game daily and when i do it is usually for little more than an hour. Even if i wanted an herc it is not worth it for me. I would rather just enjoy what time i get to log using pets i've already invested in and that i'm completely satisfied with. Hercs are worth it if you decide they are. Simple as that.

I realize this is not exactly what the OP asked so i'll put it in more simple terms. If you will be investing time/money heavily on this game then yes, chances are a herc will be a good investment.

Agreed. I'll readily admit that not all venos need hercs and that you can "succeed" at this game without them.* But to say that the only way to make money with a herc is TT or that you can't make money with a herc effectively anymore is, imho, ignorant.

* Succeed is in quotes because it means differnt things to different people. To some, it's spending time with friends; to some it's amassing the most money; to some it's levelling fastest. The important thing for each one to decide is what is successful to them, and what do they need to achieve it.

However we shouldn't indulge so much in relativism. No doubt some people can "succeed" with Snow Hares and Icewave Sirens,but given we all share somewhat common objectives we do have some benchmarks on which to measure relative success. You can succeed (without quotes) using free pets.

Segreta - Sanctuary

Woot Manray feeling talktive today? b:laugh

* But to say that the only way to make money with a herc is TT or that you can't make money with a herc effectively anymore is, imho, ignorant.

I think whoever said that what he wanted mean that its simply not worth getting an herc nowdays even though its true that you can farm in most conditions faster,but it would take really long time to get the money back(Considering not only the money spent on herc,but the amount of money you could farm while you getting your money back with a normal pet).

Desdi - Sanctuary

Originally posted by MANray_ - Sanctuary

Hercs are worth it if you decide they are. Simple as that.

Wonderful post Manray~
I had to point this out because it's the absolute truth. The Hercules is there for your own benefits, it's as good as you are, it's as necessary as you think it is.

Segreta - Sanctuary

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wonderful post Manray~
I had to point this out because it's the absolute truth. The Hercules is there for your own benefits, it's as good as you are, it's as necessary as you think it is.

O.o didn't read that part

*thumbs up*
b:cute

Edyn - Dreamweaver

Very nice thread to read, ty all for your reply's.
Interesting points there. ALl we need now is a sale for battle packs, that would be really great lol. Gold on all servers has gone way to high to even think buying SoF through gold.

Edyn - Dreamweaver

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I wonder if the question will be changed to " is it still worth playing venomancer " after mystic come out . . b:surrender

They got ability to buff auto rez, heal any pet, their pet always on same lv with them, able to summon more than one, aoe still not much known , and unknown how strong is their pets . .

Venomancer is great on debuff and surviving. b:victory

Im also kinda scared for this.. But still, would have to be an amazing class to actually make me leave my veno. Been trying other classes abit to but they dont seem to satisfy me like my veno does b:chuckle

If your info is correct, cause it first i read about pets same lvl as them (I thought they would summon something but not really a pet), then it sucks we have to train our pets to gain lvl's. Its easy at low lvl's but at higher lvl you cant keep all your pets same lvl as you
What i do worry about is what most ppl are afraid off as i heared, the fact they'll just replace us in pt's and so.. Hope they dont outdamage us or take our roll in party.
Would be nice to see party's extend to like 8 slots to with the new classes. But thats a totally different subject again.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Specifics for aoe/random aggro (in my experience):
- BH
* 89- brim (random aggro only)
* sot
* abaddon
* warsong metal
- TT
* depending on strategy 2-2/3 Astral (there are so many adds that you might need another tank)
* 2-3 Belial
* to some extent 2-X General Feng because of his constant hp debuff
* 3-X Dark Colluseant
* plenty more (most 3-3)
- Nirvana (I don't particularly like nirvana so I don't run it often and don't remember the names, but I do remember healing a lot when not tanking)

At high 70s/low 80s a walker is perfectly capable of tanking one of 2-2 Astral's adds. And keeping a walker alive on 2-1/2-2 General Feng isn't that hard, either, provided he doesn't steal aggro (no experience in 2-3.)

MANray_ - Sanctuary

b:cute Thank you for the good comments.

b:surrender And sorry about such an epic wall of text.

As for Mystics there is no doubt in my mind they'll be an OP class as it is very unlikely PWE will stray far from the model they used for TB... Which means we will effectively become the weaker of two pet classes. Fortunately, it seems too much of a stretch they'll also introduce CS pets for this new class right away(which gives hope to at least some venos) or that the new pet system will be developed to the same extent as the existing one, meaning venos will likely remain a more flexible class.

It could actually be a good thing for venomancers since a more attractive pet class could raise the bar for those of us who continue as venos while easing the pressure to acquire legendaries.

Edyn - Dreamweaver

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

It could actually be a good thing for venomancers since a more attractive pet class could raise the bar for those of us who continue as venos while easing the pressure to acquire legendaries.

Not sure if I fully understand what you mean with this part MANray. Maybe its just a lack off my english b:chuckle
I thought if the new class would be actually stronger then ours, veno's, it would be even more important for having a legendary pet? I can be wrong ofcourse. Just thought since nowadays there are already so many veno's around that its not always easy finding a squad. If the new class would be stronger in a way im afraid they'll be preferred over veno's, not-herced ones maybe even worse.
Can you plz explain me what you mean with the pressure easing? Cause I feel more pressure not less b:surrender

Meyki - Sanctuary

When most of venomancers leave their toons to play more powerful mystics, you will not see that many Herces and Nixes around, therefore veno invited to squad to purge bosses will be ok even without herc, because the squad would take rather veno without herc than none. Wow I put the great ideas written by great Manray to my poor english trying to explain them. Is it wrong? b:shutup

Edyn - Dreamweaver

Aaaaaaah... b:chuckle Ty for explaining Meyki!
I think you're right, sount really logical to me. Thats a nice way of thinking. Getting some new hope as I'm typing lol b:cute

tweakz

Herc Venos are a dime a dozen. More likely what will happen is the ones that aren't committed to the veno enough to get legendary will move on to a cheaper class. Venos are also rarely needed to purge and the ones w/o Herc are known as being as lazy as the ones with. At least with a Herc; venos are seen as a bit more productive.

Any new class is going to ignorantly be called OP by many simply because they bring something new to the game (no point if they didn't). If any one of the original classes wasn't there from the start and just got introduced: it would be called OP despite it's weaknesses. =s

MANray_ - Sanctuary

b:surrender Not sure i can be called great but that is exactly what i meant Meyki, thank you.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Herc Venos are a dime a dozen. More likely what will happen is the ones that aren't committed to the veno enough to get legendary will move on to a cheaper class. Venos are also rarely needed to purge and the ones w/o Herc are known as being as lazy as the ones with. At least with a Herc; venos are seen as a bit more productive.

Any new class is going to ignorantly be called OP by many simply because they bring something new to the game (no point if they didn't). If any one of the original classes wasn't there from the start and just got introduced: it would be called OP despite it's weaknesses. =s

Well I sure hope the lazy venos reroll soon. (herced or not) I don't think I've ever seen a worse veno than I did in Fcc last night. She had a herc, but she wasn't doing anything productive. nox gas on waves, and then she spams venomous on bosses, and resses her herc when it dies. No amps, no myraids, no ironwoods, no nova, and nothing else. That's just pitiful imo.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well I sure hope the lazy venos reroll soon.

That's what I'm hoping for as well.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well I sure hope the lazy venos reroll soon. (herced or not) I don't think I've ever seen a worse veno than I did in Fcc last night. She had a herc, but she wasn't doing anything productive. nox gas on waves, and then she spams venomous on bosses, and resses her herc when it dies. No amps, no myraids, no ironwoods, no nova, and nothing else. That's just pitiful imo.

^^Half of the venos in my FCC squads. Seriously.

Having a herc =/= being a good veno without doing anything else but letting your pet attack and spamming Venomous.

Silest - Sanctuary

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well I sure hope the lazy venos reroll soon. (herced or not) I don't think I've ever seen a worse veno than I did in Fcc last night. She had a herc, but she wasn't doing anything productive. nox gas on waves, and then she spams venomous on bosses, and resses her herc when it dies. No amps, no myraids, no ironwoods, no nova, and nothing else. That's just pitiful imo.

This is what pisses me off right now on sanct. It's THOSE noobmancers that I get passed up for in FCC groups. GOD I almost WANT a class to come and overshadow us so they can take their *** to that class and get off venomancer >.<. Quit making me look bad.

Also, I wanna burn the server to the ground.

sleepcat

Sanctuary Venos. Lol.