If you knew now what you knew back then...

Menarin - Dreamweaver

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

A HA wizard? Get him Adroit, get him!!!!!!

What lvl HA wizard? I wanted to restat to HA on sanctuary just to **** off archers when they couldn't kill me in TW.

HA, stone barrier, emberstorm I guess is all you can really do? Would be fun to watch them target a wiz and then not be able to kill em for a change, ha! I bet I could get them to chase me around forever trying. Might be one way for a whimpy wiz to take them outta play in TW . . . .

Wearing HA at higher level is basically like pouring all your points into strength and vit (some dex) instead of mag.

You use dual axes instead of wands/patakas/magic swords and keep a crappy wand on you (or just de-equip your axes and cast unarmed) on you so you can cast spells (emberstorm, frostblade, stone barrier, distance shrink) and you basically become an anti tank-tank...

It's sorta weird, but it's fun to tank when nobody expects it. Also you end up gaining at least 50% the regular amount of phys def of a HA barb with all class buffs and demon SB.

Link: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=75eead47e71412b9
Feel free to optimize it, thats 19k phys def at lvl 80 with TT80 HA gear refined to +2 with 2 Immac cits in all gear...

EDIT: PW calc fixed lol didnt notice I had an extra bracket in there >_> /fail
EDIT 2: You could go the opposite route and aim for dex instead of vit thus losing some power for emberstorm but gaining a ton of evasion and accuracy. Just a thought... Okay well maybe not a ton but 500 is a pretty good number... sorta... >_>

(to any barbs reading this, if you're lvl 80 and your gear isn't at least this good wow that explains why most barbs suck)

Though this wasn't my original point, I have to say that I PREFER playing pure wizards.

prof wrote: »

didn't read past this sentence. if this is what you honestly believe to be true, shut up, go back to the cleric section

difficulty in pve means nothing. every class can kill a mob or a boss, time span is the difference.

b:shutuphave you ever pvp'd?

Not to sound like an ***, but if you have the slightest amount of common sense (and some free time) learning/being taught how to play another class is ridiculously easy. You make it sound much more difficult than it is.

I've played every class in the game and while I dislike PvP, if you know the class well enough, you SHOULD (through common sense) know how to PvP with them (especially since you can just ask people on a PvP server for advice >_>)

Though I digress, and for the sake of not wanting to belabor the point, if you're (not you specifically prof, I'm generalizing) not good at PvP I recommend playing on a PvE server instead.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

prof wrote: »

didn't read past this sentence. if this is what you honestly believe to be true, shut up, go back to the cleric section

difficulty in pve means nothing. every class can kill a mob or a boss, time span is the difference.

b:shutuphave you ever pvp'd?

Cool story sis. I bet you didn't read past that sentence because you don't know how to play any class. Unlike PVP, every server does PVE, so save the e-peen attitude for someone who is both on a PVP server and actually cares. How about those LC and HL forums?

prof

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not to sound like an ***, but if you have the slightest amount of common sense (and some free time) learning/being taught how to play another class is ridiculously easy. You make it sound much more difficult than it is.

I've played every class in the game and while I dislike PvP, if you know the class well enough, you SHOULD (through common sense) know how to PvP with them (especially since you can just ask people on a PvP server for advice >_>)

Though I digress, and for the sake of not wanting to belabor the point, if you're (not you specifically prof, I'm generalizing) not good at PvP I recommend playing on a PvE server instead.[/COLOR]

common sense isn't going to teach you to glitch your skills effectively and time your stuns where your opponent never gets to move and still dies in the end. you'd be surprised at the massive amount of bm's who can't do that.

mr. low-level-pve-server, go to end game before you talk about it

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cool story sis. I bet you didn't read past that sentence because you don't know how to play any class. Unlike PVP, every server does PVE, so save the e-peen attitude for someone who is both on a PVP server and actually cares. How about those LC and HL forums?

I have no idea how any class works after playing both mages and wrs for over 3 years, and lol, pvp is the only thing that matters in this game. what do you level for? to kill mobs faster? you're not a farm-alt class, what the **** sir? b:bye

Borsuc - Raging Tide

prof wrote: »

I have no idea how any class works after playing both mages and wrs for over 3 years, and lol, pvp is the only thing that matters in this game.

Empty words there.

You may know what you're talking about but you give some **** advice sometimes also.

Menarin - Dreamweaver

prof wrote: »

common sense isn't going to teach you to glitch your skills effectively and time your stuns where your opponent never gets to move and still dies in the end. you'd be surprised at the massive amount of bm's who can't do that.

Sure there are a lot of players that aren't particularly skilled at playing their classes, but it's like that in all mmo's, that's just common knowledge (i.e common sense).

Here let me quote myself and explain this in-depth just for you, since you didn't get it the first time.

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if you have the slightest amount of common sense (and some free time) learning/being taught how to play another class is ridiculously easy. You make it sound much more difficult than it is.

(especially since you can just ask people on a PvP server for advice >_>)

This means with a decent amount of common sense You the Player can take the necessary steps to learn how or be taught to play your class and to do PvP.

In case you still don't get it, let me define what learning is:

Definition of LEARNING, noun
1) the act or experience of one that learns
2) knowledge or skill acquired by instruction or study
3) modification of a behavioral tendency by experience (as exposure to conditioning)

And just for the record I refuse to further debate this point with you anymore because there is nothing left to debate. I'm quite sure others will agree with me.

prof wrote: »

mr. low-level-pve-server, go to end game before you talk about it

The fact that you had to state this is an obvious act of Trolling with which to try and anger me. If you can't back up your arguments, might I ask you either;

A) Refrain from further discussion
Admit you're wrong
C) Gather evidence to support your hypothesis and prove me wrong.

Spouting nonsense serves no benefit to anyone. But by all means fine someone who is good at playing there class and possess no common sense. I'm sure you'll have a fun time with that since Common Sense is relative from person to person.

Also I'd like to cite Rule 14 of the PWI Community Forums: Rules of Conduct.
14. Keep posts on-topic.
Keep the topic in mind when you post. Refrain from posting irrelevant information.

Adroit - Lost City

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also I'd like to cite Rule 14 of the PWI Community Forums: Rules of Conduct.
14. Keep posts on-topic.
Keep the topic in mind when you post. Refrain from posting irrelevant information.

You've got to be kidding. I don't really have anything against you being that I haven't really seen you around before, but you may want to re-read your posts for the obvious hypocrisy.

Menarin - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

You've got to be kidding. I don't really have anything against you being that I haven't really seen you around before, but you may want to re-read your posts for the obvious hypocrisy.

Stating that was nothing more then the finalization of a point against a personal attack. While I know that it is indeed hypocrisy, in my defense I did originally stay true to the thread topic and furthered the discussion at hand.

Here:

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Personally I've tried all the classes and while playing a wizard is my favorite (Evidenced by the fact I've had 5 on 3 different servers LA, HA, Pure, and Vit builds), I think personally I'd go with either Psychic or Archer.

The reason being I like the increased DPS.

Also there is none of that:

"Oh **** I just crit for 72+k dmg on a boss thanks to some combination of HF/EP/Amp/spark+/etc" *instantly dies* random chance... (or at the very least it's probability of happening is decreased a good deal for other classes, but feel free to prove me wrong ;D I imagine it's rather hilarious/upsetting).

Now if we're all happy, I'd like to either:
A) Get back to the topic or
Cease pointless personal attacks, and try to further the discussion in progress.

Up to you all really.

Additionally, for your convenience. Here's the Thread Topic below.

Chillum - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you knew now what you knew back then... would you still have chosen a Wizard?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

So anyways, back to the discussion we were having..

prof wrote: »

I have no idea how any class works after playing both mages and wrs for over 3 years, and lol, pvp is the only thing that matters in this game. what do you level for? to kill mobs faster? you're not a farm-alt class, what the **** sir? b:bye

If you haven't figured it out, the PVP system here caters to money spenders first and foremost. I play other MMO's purely PVP based that costs both no money to play, can't spend money, and everyone is on the same even playing field leaving only their skills. Granted, they're relative d.bags like most people doing PVP here as well, but at least the PVP system isn't as screwed over as it is here -- it's the opposite in fact. That's why so many more people continue to play on PVE servers. PVP obviously barely matters to the extent that I never once gave a **** to white name and the only time I even killed other players was in TW (which was rather boring and TW factions have an enormous amount of drama in them) or cube. When I did cube, PK rooms generally weren't even a challenge with 5 APS and TT100 fists. There's no accomplishment doing PVP in this game. It blows. Let me guess, you stand around all day outside west gate or silver pool hanging out with the cool internet kids and crappy pre-set PK wars?

PVE was fun too, but PWI really only made two dungeons worth running anymore -- Nirvana and FF. The fun dungeons people barely run at all, and the rest is perpetual farming/grinding while gold prices go up making it even more of a task for non-paying players. So in fact both modes of play suck. But your PVP-iz-cool post is more suck.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also I'd like to cite Rule 14 of the PWI Community Forums: Rules of Conduct.
14. Keep posts on-topic.
Keep the topic in mind when you post. Refrain from posting irrelevant information.

LOL Hysterical. lmfao

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So anyways, back to the discussion we were having..


If you haven't figured it out, the PVP system here caters to money spenders first and foremost. I play other MMO's purely PVP based that costs both no money to play, can't spend money, and everyone is on the same even playing field leaving only their skills. Granted, they're relative d.bags like most people doing PVP here as well, but at least the PVP system isn't as screwed over as it is here -- it's the opposite in fact. That's why so many more people continue to play on PVE servers. PVP obviously barely matters to the extent that I never once gave a **** to white name and the only time I even killed other players was in TW (which was rather boring and TW factions have an enormous amount of drama in them) or cube. When I did cube, PK rooms generally weren't even a challenge with 5 APS and TT100 fists. There's no accomplishment doing PVP in this game. It blows. Let me guess, you stand around all day outside west gate or silver pool hanging out with the cool internet kids and crappy pre-set PK wars?

PVE was fun too, but PWI really only made two dungeons worth running anymore -- Nirvana and FF. The fun dungeons people barely run at all, and the rest is perpetual farming/grinding while gold prices go up making it even more of a task for non-paying players. So in fact both modes of play suck. But your PVP-iz-cool post is more suck.

I agree. And "prof" what I know played PW-EN version or malaysian.

Pearlwood - Lost City

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So anyways, back to the discussion we were having..


If you haven't figured it out, the PVP system here caters to money spenders first and foremost. I play other MMO's purely PVP based that costs both no money to play, can't spend money, and everyone is on the same even playing field leaving only their skills. Granted, they're relative d.bags like most people doing PVP here as well, but at least the PVP system isn't as screwed over as it is here -- it's the opposite in fact. That's why so many more people continue to play on PVE servers. PVP obviously barely matters to the extent that I never once gave a **** to white name and the only time I even killed other players was in TW (which was rather boring and TW factions have an enormous amount of drama in them) or cube. When I did cube, PK rooms generally weren't even a challenge with 5 APS and TT100 fists. There's no accomplishment doing PVP in this game. It blows. Let me guess, you stand around all day outside west gate or silver pool hanging out with the cool internet kids and crappy pre-set PK wars?

PVE was fun too, but PWI really only made two dungeons worth running anymore -- Nirvana and FF. The fun dungeons people barely run at all, and the rest is perpetual farming/grinding while gold prices go up making it even more of a task for non-paying players. So in fact both modes of play suck. But your PVP-iz-cool post is more suck.

So, what you're saying is: If you want life after reaching 100, you're gonna have to pay for it. Otherwise, re-roll.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

So, what you're saying is: If you want life after reaching 100, you're gonna have to pay for it. Otherwise, re-roll.

That goes for every class really. And I didn't wanna turn it into a QQpost cuz there are people who still find wizards fun. It's still very much possible to know the limitations of your class and still like it / have fun with it.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You use dual axes and keep a crappy wand on you and you basically become an anti tank-tank...

REALLY? AXES?

I have to do this for fun. I simply must.

Anti tank tank? I don't get it. Tell me more.

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's sorta weird, but it's fun to tank when nobody expects it.

This is why i wanna do it. Would be so funny (well, the first few times anyway, then like Adoit said elsewhere, everyone will just ignore you bc you can't kill nuthin.

But those first few times and archer pew pews you? roflmao

prof

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Empty words there.

You may know what you're talking about but you give some **** advice sometimes also.

empty? disprove it. what's the replay content of this game we all stick around for? end-game pk/tw is ****ing amazing. no matter what class you play, once you get there, everything changes.

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wall o' text

okay, I care thiiiis much that you think you can play any other class. you have a mage? level 70~, is that where you get your opinion of the class? because you kill mobs in a pr0 way?

mages are indestructible against mobs, that's 'common knowledge'. learning how well a class works and where it excels the most isn't learned at 7x, btw, that's also 'common knowledge'. the extreme difference between any level lower than 99, and 99, is ridiculous.

b:bye get there then talk about this

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So anyways, back to the discussion we were having..


If you haven't figured it out, the PVP system here caters to money spenders first and foremost. I play other MMO's purely PVP based that costs both no money to play, can't spend money, and everyone is on the same even playing field leaving only their skills. Granted, they're relative d.bags like most people doing PVP here as well, but at least the PVP system isn't as screwed over as it is here -- it's the opposite in fact. That's why so many more people continue to play on PVE servers. PVP obviously barely matters to the extent that I never once gave a **** to white name and the only time I even killed other players was in TW (which was rather boring and TW factions have an enormous amount of drama in them) or cube. When I did cube, PK rooms generally weren't even a challenge with 5 APS and TT100 fists. There's no accomplishment doing PVP in this game. It blows. Let me guess, you stand around all day outside west gate or silver pool hanging out with the cool internet kids and crappy pre-set PK wars?

PVE was fun too, but PWI really only made two dungeons worth running anymore -- Nirvana and FF. The fun dungeons people barely run at all, and the rest is perpetual farming/grinding while gold prices go up making it even more of a task for non-paying players. So in fact both modes of play suck. But your PVP-iz-cool post is more suck.

first, the drama is normal. drama makes guilds worth talking to. ****'s like yourself belong in a small, quiet guild, with few members that are all higher leveled than yourself so you never have to help anyone.

that being said;

I've said before, I've never spent a dime on any version of this game I've ever played, and I've been playing since april of 2007. that's a long time. and, contrary to your beliefs, I have a job in reality and spend most of my time not on this game.

so why is most of my set +10? why is my weapon +12?

why do people automatically assume you have to cash-shop to get anywhere? just wait till I finally finish my bm on this version, I'll bring my mg too.

b:bye

Pearlwood - Lost City

prof wrote: »

mages are indestructible against mobs, that's 'common knowledge'. learning how well a class works and where it excels the most isn't learned at 7x, btw, that's also 'common knowledge'. the extreme difference between any level lower than 99, and 99, is ridiculous.

RESPONSE:
I can't disagree with this because I'm not at 100. But, 9x Wizarding is pretty interesting. I can only imagine what it's like with sage BIDS and the rest.... And, 7x was good too, when, as an arcane wizard, you tank Zimo for the first time.... A portent of the future. By the way if you are arcane, Zimo at 7x is an important benchmark to gauge your abilities.

Menarin - Dreamweaver

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

LOL Hysterical. lmfao

What can I say sometimes I'm a little nonsensical myself. Although I gotta admit occasionally I use poor judgment.

So here's a formal apology. I'm sorry. Satisfied? Let's move on to the plan of ultimate stupidity! Suicide happy, I mean All-or-nothing wiz, I mean HA wizard

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

REALLY? AXES?

I have to do this for fun. I simply must.

Anti tank tank? I don't get it. Tell me more.

This is why i wanna do it. Would be so funny (well, the first few times anyway, then like Adoit said elsewhere, everyone will just ignore you bc you can't kill nuthin.

But those first few times and archer pew pews you? roflmao

ANYWAYS This "trick" only works once or twice like Adroit said and it's a very impractical approach to playing a wizard in TW/PvP as you are are essentially a barb with lower hp and higher phys def, but no skills.

Therefore what you first need is camouflage (fashion), to disguise your armor choice. Won't work if people know what you're doing from just looking at you.

Also the idea is to have a higher hp pool in the case of emberstorm (for damage purposes) as this is your primary attack. Combined with crab meat/cleric heals/apoth items/genie skills/Hp charms, your hp shouldn't be much of a problem unless you run into an arcane class, because they will kill you like a pure wizard would a barb.

(unless of course you buff you magic defense or switch to using magic def ornaments and LA, but that's only forestalling the inevitable imo)

So since your physical resistance is so high, you can tank physical attacks surprisingly well especially if you switch to using axes when skills (emberstorm, force of will, distance shrink, etc.) are cooling-down. Which basically means running out and getting the melee classes attention.

I find that Distance shrink+Tree of Protection+Emberstorm to close range and Deal damage works fairly well. (sorta, again this is impractical)

Skills by lvl80:

Distance Shrink (Lvl 10):
instantly teleport 25 meters forward.
Requres 20 Chi

Tree of Protection (Lvl 10):
Increases max HP by 30% for 5 seconds.
Restores 20% of your max HP every 3 seconds for 6 seconds.
This skill will interrupt the effect of Cinnabar Amulet.

Strength: Every 2 Genie Strength points increases the max HP more by 1%.
Every 60 STR increases the duration time by 1 second.
Dexterity: Every 8 Genie Dexterity points increases the Health recovery effect by 1%.

So with a lvl80 genie with decent LP (50/80) you can easily have the 120 strength, 16 dex, 15 vit necessary for this plan.

Emberstorm (lvl 8):
Charge for up to 3.6 seconds to attack enemies in a 12 meter radius at the cost of up to 60% of your HP. Inflicts 3600 Fire damage, each HP spent dealing 3.6 damage

Now let's use my crappy lvl80 HA wizard with his crappy genie as an example, he has 5704 hp at lvl 80 with only two shards in each piece of his armor, all refined to +2. (easily achievable with buffs)


Formula time:

[60% of (player hp buffed + 30% of hp from ToP)] x 3.6dmg per hp point + 3,600

[60% of (5,704+30%)] x 3.6 + 3,600 =
(60% of 7,415.2) x3.6 + 3,600=
4,449.12 x 3.6 = 16,016.832 + 3,600=
19,616.832 dmg

Now remember this isn't calced against defenders magic def. If you'd like to finish the math be my guest.

There is more to it then what I can put here right now, and being honest it's all in all not a very good way to fight, but it can be done once or twice if you're willing to waste time/money/mirages, and are okay with dying often.

additionally blah math

Pearlwood - Lost City

Menarin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What can I say sometimes I'm a little nonsensical myself. Although I gotta admit occasionally I use poor judgment.

So here's a formal apology. I'm sorry. Satisfied? Let's move on to the plan of ultimate stupidity! Suicide happy, I mean All-or-nothing wiz, I mean HA wizard




ANYWAYS This "trick" only works once or twice like Adroit said and it's a very impractical approach to playing a wizard in TW/PvP as you are are essentially a barb with lower hp and higher phys def, but no skills.

Therefore what you first need is camouflage (fashion), to disguise your armor choice. Won't work if people know what you're doing from just looking at you.

Also the idea is to have a higher hp pool in the case of emberstorm (for damage purposes) as this is your primary attack. Combined with crab meat/cleric heals/apoth items/genie skills/Hp charms, your hp shouldn't be much of a problem unless you run into an arcane class, because they will kill you like a pure wizard would a barb.

(unless of course you buff you magic defense or switch to using magic def ornaments and LA, but that's only forestalling the inevitable imo)

So since your physical resistance is so high, you can tank physical attacks surprisingly well especially if you switch to using axes when skills (emberstorm, force of will, distance shrink, etc.) are cooling-down. Which basically means running out and getting the melee classes attention.

I find that Distance shrink+Tree of Protection+Emberstorm to close range and Deal damage works fairly well. (sorta, again this is impractical)

Skills by lvl80:

Distance Shrink (Lvl 10):
instantly teleport 25 meters forward.
Requres 20 Chi

Tree of Protection (Lvl 10):
Increases max HP by 30% for 5 seconds.
Restores 20% of your max HP every 3 seconds for 6 seconds.
This skill will interrupt the effect of Cinnabar Amulet.

Strength: Every 2 Genie Strength points increases the max HP more by 1%.
Every 60 STR increases the duration time by 1 second.
Dexterity: Every 8 Genie Dexterity points increases the Health recovery effect by 1%.

So with a lvl80 genie with decent LP (50/80) you can easily have the 120 strength, 16 dex, 15 vit necessary for this plan.

Emberstorm (lvl 8):
Charge for up to 3.6 seconds to attack enemies in a 12 meter radius at the cost of up to 60% of your HP. Inflicts 3600 Fire damage, each HP spent dealing 3.6 damage

Now let's use my crappy lvl80 HA wizard with his crappy genie as an example, he has 5704 hp at lvl 80 with only two shards in each piece of his armor, all refined to +2. (easily achievable with buffs)


Formula time:

[60% of (player hp buffed + 30% of hp from ToP)] x 3.6dmg per hp point + 3,600

[60% of (5,704+30%)] x 3.6 + 3,600 =
(60% of 7,415.2) x3.6 + 3,600=
4,449.12 x 3.6 = 16,016.832 + 3,600=
19,616.832 dmg

Now remember this isn't calced against defenders magic def. If you'd like to finish the math be my guest.

There is more to it then what I can put here right now, and being honest it's all in all not a very good way to fight, but it can be done once or twice if you're willing to waste time/money/mirages, and are okay with dying often.

additionally blah math

It's ok. You're a wizard. I love all wizards.

Not to cut you off (HA wiz not viable except maybe for a little bit of initial fun), but you did bring up the subject of Emberstorm. I have a question to the big boys and girls: Can ironguard (or sutra powder) give you immunity from the HP loss on Emberstorm? How would that combine work? (I'll test it myself if nobody knows the answer) The reason I asked is that the other night on a duel with a BM friend, I used Emberstorm...and killed him. So....I'm debating whether or not to level it from 1. Anybody have any thoughts?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

It's ok. You're a wizard. I love all wizards.

Not to cut you off (HA wiz not viable except maybe for a little bit of initial fun), but you did bring up the subject of Emberstorm. I have a question to the big boys and girls: Can ironguard (or sutra powder) give you immunity from the HP loss on Emberstorm? How would that combine work? (I'll test it myself if nobody knows the answer) The reason I asked is that the other night on a duel with a BM friend, I used Emberstorm...and killed him. So....I'm debating whether or not to level it from 1. Anybody have any thoughts?

Get a charm and don't worry about it. Get sage emberstorm and worry even less.

I use sage emberstorm in frostcovered city in place of dragons breath now and then because it usually knocks out the shade too (not solo, but with everyone else hitting as well). Pretty fast runs.

I use it in tw/pk too sometimes just for yuks. Can kill light armor classes best it seems. In fact, I actually did catch a stealth sin that way. Walk next to mob, channel emberstorm (most don't know what it is since it is never used, i think he musta thought i was building chi, lol) and

BAM!!! dead sin.

Also gotten them with random BT on random mobs in west gate and sometimes DB, but they usually know what DB is and move! get out da way, get out da way . . . .