If you knew now what you knew back then...
Comments
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Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »It's a combination of few control skills with long cooldowns, few survival skills, no anti-stun, and again, cooldowns, that makes us vulnerable, not just HP. The fact that our DPS isn't that great is also a problem: people are not afraid to tank our normal fast hits.
On the other hand, most of our targets tend to have awesome control skills, anti-stun and movement debuffs, basically nullifying anything that we can to control them (except for seal) while they can control us np.
Well, if we're so fail as a matter of game development, then why are we considered so formidable in TW? (and I know from experience that we're powerhouses in PVE) I think all this pessimism deals strictly with solo PVP, which the Sin was built to dominate. But, that's just a theory, that I'm not sure I agree with. To be sure, at my little level, getting the jump on my opponent is almost mandatory, so I try to anticipate. I do get ganked easily, but so does most all other class, except barb, as far as I can tell. And, I'm speaking about PVP encounters against fairly equally levelled opponents. (I avoid fights with obviously smaller players unless they just attack me out of ignorance).0 -
Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Well, if we're so fail as a matter of game development, then why are we considered so formidable in TW? (and I know from experience that we're powerhouses in PVE) I think all this pessimism deals strictly with solo PVP, which the Sin was built to dominate. But, that's just a theory, that I'm not sure I agree with. To be sure, at my little level, getting the jump on my opponent is almost mandatory, so I try to anticipate. I do get ganked easily, but so does most all other class, except barb, as far as I can tell. And, I'm speaking about PVP encounters against fairly equally levelled opponents. (I avoid fights with obviously smaller players unless they just attack me out of ignorance).
wizards suck in pve (except aoe instances like gv)
I think we do fine in pvp, except vs tideborn. Luckily there arent many psychics running around, and even fewer skilled/well geared ones. Sins are disgusting in pvp, most are terrible at their class, but sometimes I just need to leave when a good one shows up. Most the time I'm still fighting the original classes, where the pvp is pretty balanced imo.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
mage is untouchable vs mobs ijs0
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prof, you're too old school seriously. Times have changed a lot. Even in PvE, nobody grinds for normal mobs anymore.
2 things:Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Well, if we're so fail as a matter of game development, then why are we considered so formidable in TW? (and I know from experience that we're powerhouses in PVE) I think all this pessimism deals strictly with solo PVP, which the Sin was built to dominate. But, that's just a theory, that I'm not sure I agree with. To be sure, at my little level, getting the jump on my opponent is almost mandatory, so I try to anticipate. I do get ganked easily, but so does most all other class, except barb, as far as I can tell. And, I'm speaking about PVP encounters against fairly equally levelled opponents. (I avoid fights with obviously smaller players unless they just attack me out of ignorance).
1) We're not formidable in TW because of the class itself... psychics are very good as well -- but it is normal in older servers for wizards to be more favored, because they are old-timers or had time to play a lot instead of the fish, which most of the time are alts. It is the general range attack I guess. We are good, but nowhere near where others are at in other situations.
2) Powerhouses in PvE??? Does that mean, soloing TT bosses and not being wanted in Nirvana? b:surrender0 -
mage is untouchable vs mobs ijs
the most important instances in game are mainly bosses, where everyone wants dps chars. Frost does have some mobs, but most people breeze past them and one shot them (so wizards arent needed). Then interval chars kill the bosses in a fraction of the time it would take us magic casters. HH and NV are even worse, I was asked to go on ONE NV since the instance was added, and that was because they couldnt find an ep. -30% channeling and sage morning dew to heal a 5aps barb w/ bloodpaint. Wouldnt count on those circumstances to farm your nv gear :P I finally started an ep when gc was being filled with, "need one DD for NV (mages need not apply)"Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »wizards suck in pve (except aoe instances like gv)
I think we do fine in pvp, except vs tideborn. Luckily there arent many psychics running around, and even fewer skilled/well geared ones. Sins are disgusting in pvp, most are terrible at their class, but sometimes I just need to leave when a good one shows up. Most the time I'm still fighting the original classes, where the pvp is pretty balanced imo.
Well, I finally disagree with you on something, Adroit. Probably best that I don't always appear as one of your forum groupies.
[but your vids against Calvin are epic].
I have been doing PVE from the date of my cyber birth, as a full mage. Not an easy trip. And, I have never had a problem getting in a squad with my friends. Never. And, it isn't just because of my sparkling personality, it's because of my skill and an unrelenting, almost suicidal, efforts to defend vulnerable squad mates, especially the cleric. In frost, I'm desired because I can wipe all the mobs out in that one shot. I also use this method to save the squads alot of time on everybody's hypers when the cleric goes down or needs help, or when I shoot bosses and mobs with undined/ MS/frenzy into a pull and fairly saving members who have accidentally been made the subject of an aggroed mob rush. I furthermore, win points by secondarily healing at all time.
Nope. my squad mates might take issue with your statement here, so ask them if you don't believe me. Wizards don't suck in PVE.0 -
I've never had that problem, but I always played with friends. you'll never enjoy the game if you only play with money-hungry business men in suits. I also always start a game with a solo/farm class, hence why I'm a wr in lost city.0
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I've never had that problem, but I always played with friends. you'll never enjoy the game if you only play with money-hungry business men in suits. I also always start a game with a solo/farm class, hence why I'm a wr in lost city.
I'll look for your catshop in West Archo. You can make money crafting materials used to manufacture such things as sockets, and more refined stones and shards. Perhaps you could locate for me a pair of TT90 green pants, for which I would reasonably pay. And, if that happens, I'll give u a look at my OHT sleeves, all phys resists, with 4 sockets. These sleeves give me an extra 1000 pdef when fully buffed. An amazing gear for any wizard.0 -
Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »I'll look for your catshop in West Archo. You can make money crafting materials used to manufacture such things as sockets, and more refined stones and shards. Perhaps you could locate for me a pair of TT90 green pants, for which I would reasonably pay. And, if that happens, I'll give u a look at my OHT sleeves, all phys resists, with 4 sockets. These sleeves give me an extra 1000 pdef when fully buffed. An amazing gear for any wizard.
lolwut0 -
Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Well, I finally disagree with you on something, Adroit. Probably best that I don't always appear as one of your forum groupies. [but your vids against Calvin are epic].
I have been doing PVE from the date of my cyber birth, as a full mage. Not an easy trip. And, I have never had a problem getting in a squad with my friends. Never. And, it isn't just because of my sparkling personality, it's because of my skill and an unrelenting, almost suicidal, efforts to defend vulnerable squad mates, especially the cleric. In frost, I'm desired because I can wipe all the mobs out in that one shot. I also use this method to save the squads alot of time on everybody's hypers when the cleric goes down or needs help, or when I shoot bosses and mobs with undined/ MS/frenzy into a pull and fairly saving members who have accidentally been made the subject of an aggroed mob rush. I furthermore, win points by secondarily healing at all time.
Nope. my squad mates might take issue with your statement here, so ask them if you don't believe me. Wizards don't suck in PVE.
things change at end game, the party wont need saving, they want speed. Its not that uncommon nowadays to have barbs/bms/sins/psychics etc one shotting mobs in frost. So your primary role is gone, then with decent gear and some common sense.. nobody dies. Since about 9x, I've never died in frost on my cleric. Something about 8k+ hp and pdef and genie skills makes staying alive extremely easy. So later on you will be unneeded to kill mobs or to keep the party alive. Then people will take the int chars to make the bosses go faster.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »prof, you're too old school seriously. Times have changed a lot. Even in PvE, nobody grinds for normal mobs anymore.
2 things:
1) We're not formidable in TW because of the class itself... psychics are very good as well -- but it is normal in older servers for wizards to be more favored, because they are old-timers or had time to play a lot instead of the fish, which most of the time are alts. It is the general range attack I guess. We are good, but nowhere near where others are at in other situations.
2) Powerhouses in PvE??? Does that mean, soloing TT bosses and not being wanted in Nirvana? b:surrender
It means powering a squad through frost like **** through the proverbial goose. It means tanking down Nob when everybody else but the cleric has died. I don't know about Nirvana since i'm not there yet, but I can guarantee I will have no problem squadding with my friends for that. They know what I can do, and they want it. As to TT, we do that on a somewhat irregular basis because of the cleric's charm breaking and therefore not being worth the drops you may get. In short, TT is just not worth it, to us.0 -
Maybe they will but 5aps tank can without a cleric most of the time with bloodpaint (Nirvana) and do it 5 times faster than you, the TT3-x are (were) profitable but for 5aps who could solo them. They used to get tons of cash from selling gold drops... of course it's NOT going to be profitable with a normal squad that includes a wiz, that's the whole point lol.0
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the thread title is incorrect, if I knew now what I knew back then means I just have good memory
it should be 'if you knew what you know now back then'0 -
While I may not count since my wizzie is semi-retired...
If the tb didn't exist, I'd still play my wizzie. For two reasons.
1) Being an interval wife does have its perks. I can always kidnap my BM fiance. b:chuckle
2) I loved the PvP as a wizard. I was more fearless. I didn't mind going out there with less than 5k hp and eating stuff alive (and dying in the process). Whereas on my fishy, I can't get away with that (well, maybe I can, but I don't has demon stone barrier).
Granted, psys have it just as bad as wizzies if not worse on the farming aspect, but then I point to point #1. But I also have a level 73 sin that I'm leveling for the purpose of farming with as well. The farming thing is unfair to us magic-slingers.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Better known as Destini, also known as _Yvi.
ty Nowitsawn.
I dunno if I'm coming or going some days...b:shocked0 -
I would not have chosen Wizard for sure, perhaps a BM. I plan on creating a Sin soon so I can join the -int crowd.
I have a 101 Wizard that I spent a lot of time and some money on, so it's kind of sad. I enjoyed playing a Wizard for most of my time here until this -int craze started. Wizards used to be so fun - killing from a distance (I hate chasing mobs), doing huge damage that Axe BM's and Barbs could never dream of, tanking magic bosses, etc.
But now Wizards aren't even considered DD's anymore. We're nothing. We have no role in this game. DD = -int Barb, Archer, BM, or Sin. I have never done Nirvana before and probably never will as a Wizard. Even if someone invites me to a Nirvana run, wouldn't it be out of pure pity/charity? I can't really blame people either. If you want to do an instance as quickly and efficiently as possible, why would you want anything less than:
1 Cleric
5 5 APS DD's (at least one Sin for Bloodpaint)
If you want to get even more 'classist', I'd argue that you'd only want a mix of Sins and BMs, since Fist/Claw Archers and Barbs can't do as much damage. So maybe in the future the game will be full of nothing but the same 3 classes.
The game is broken because Wizards weren't given any abilities that are needed or useful. So it is imbalanced. But I think Psychics and Venos are in the same boat too. Also imagine the grief that non-int melee classes get for not jumping on the -int bandwagon. But at least they have the chance to be useful, while Wizards do not.
Time to calculate the cost of Oracle-ing to 70, and buying Sin gear b:victory0 -
Would I choose differently....hrmmmmmmm......
No.
I love my wizzy, and although I am fully aware that 5aps is where it's at for farming, and sins (and to a lesser extent a couple of insanely geared 5aps BM's on my server) do cause issues, I'd still roll a wizzy
I've got a veno (98)
I've got a sin (only 85 - been lazy)
I AM a Wizzy.
As minimus the muppet mentioned earlier in the thread, he's moved from a 5aps BM to playing a wiz, simply because it is more fun, and that is why I play.0 -
Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »Would I choose differently....hrmmmmmmm......
No.
I love my wizzy, and although I am fully aware that 5aps is where it's at for farming, and sins (and to a lesser extent a couple of insanely geared 5aps BM's on my server) do cause issues, I'd still roll a wizzy
I've got a veno (98)
I've got a sin (only 85 - been lazy)
I AM a Wizzy.
As minimus the muppet mentioned earlier in the thread, he's moved from a 5aps BM to playing a wiz, simply because it is more fun, and that is why I play.
Thank you. It's about time we hear something positive from a 100+ Wizard. Now, if somebody will explain exactly what "5aps" means...I assume it relates to some expensive gearing referred to as "interval gear" that gives 5 attacks per second...but im not sure. (I hope I'm wrong)0 -
Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Thank you. It's about time we hear something positive from a 100+ Wizard. Now, if somebody will explain exactly what "5aps" means...I assume it relates to some expensive gearing referred to as "interval gear" that gives 5 attacks per second...but im not sure. (I hope I'm wrong)
It does, you're not wrong, and it hurts...
Fact of life though - in terms of game balance we are one of the weaker classes. This can be countered by skills and gear, but a high skill/high gear sin will smush a high skill/high gear wiz 9 times out of 10 in 1v1.
TW is a totally different matter though, and the one area where we are still one of the strongest classes 0 -
Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Thank you. It's about time we hear something positive from a 100+ Wizard. Now, if somebody will explain exactly what "5aps" means...I assume it relates to some expensive gearing referred to as "interval gear" that gives 5 attacks per second...but im not sure. (I hope I'm wrong)
I strongly support wizards and I'm over 100
Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »It does, you're not wrong, and it hurts...
Fact of life though - in terms of game balance we are one of the weaker classes. This can be countered by skills and gear, but a high skill/high gear sin will smush a high skill/high gear wiz 9 times out of 10 in 1v1.
TW is a totally different matter though, and the one area where we are still one of the strongest classes
though we're super-amazing in tw, we're not the only class that is. you all pride yourselves WAY too much on tw. you also underestimate yourselves a LOT in normal world pvp. b:shutup world pvp is > tw right now, learn some normal pk b:bye0 -
I strongly support wizards and I'm over 100
though we're super-amazing in tw, we're not the only class that is. you all pride yourselves WAY too much on tw. you also underestimate yourselves a LOT in normal world pvp. b:shutup world pvp is > tw right now, learn some normal pk b:bye
go fight a couple sins and tell us that we underestimate ourselves in world pvp.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
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Adroit - Lost City wrote: »go fight a couple sins and tell us that we underestimate ourselves in world pvp.
I have, and the only problem I have right now is surviving the initial attack when I'm unprepared for it. though, I've never been much of a 'duck', so it doesn't happen very often. b:bye
jiblet's in a pve server, where white name(level irrelevant) is kos. red name means absolutely nothing in a pve server.0 -
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I have, and the only problem I have right now is surviving the initial attack when I'm unprepared for it. though, I've never been much of a 'duck', so it doesn't happen very often. b:bye
jiblet's in a pve server, where white name(level irrelevant) is kos. red name means absolutely nothing in a pve server.
ya that first attack sucks. The only way to survive vs a good one would be a genie skill, and a smart one will just force stealth after you expel/domain, and then destroy you when it ends. There is no defense against that. Just to give you an idea on how much damage a sin does, on my cleric (6.6k hp and 5.5k pdef self buffed).. I used guardian light, plume shell, sage vanguard (8.5k pdef), and had spammed myself with sage ironheart (-30% channeling +10 weapon).. and a friend of mine just normal chopped me to death (+7 first cast nirvana daggers, 3.33 aps unsparked). He didn't use any buffs or debuffs, didn't glitch powerdash, no spark etc etc etc. Took him about 5 seconds or so. So even though my gear isn't great, tests with my cleric simulate having about 10k hp unbuffed (rough estimate), and would have been easily killed in one stun. Now even if you had more hp than that, he has triple spark.. glitch power dash, frenzy, extreme poison, tangling mire, wolf emblem etc etc etc.
Anyway my original point is that you won't be able to survive the stun lock on a normal sin w/o a genie skill (can't use anything but a genie b/c you are stunned out of stealth). If you pick a skill that uses too much genie energy, they can just stealth and try again when it ends. It's just a good thing that 90% of the sins out there are too stupid to do this, and you can somewhat fight back. When a good one shows up though.. its just disgustingly broken.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
Sometimes words by themselves just aren't enough, you have to see the thing:Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Thank you. It's about time we hear something positive from a 100+ Wizard. Now, if somebody will explain exactly what "5aps" means...I assume it relates to some expensive gearing referred to as "interval gear" that gives 5 attacks per second...but im not sure. (I hope I'm wrong)
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=855992
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFcX1uWYsaw
(yes this is top gear, not every 5aps has that, but extremes are useful for the psychological human mind... top gear magic squad would probably do it in 25min... a normal squad takes 40min-1hour)0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Sometimes words by themselves just aren't enough, you have to see the thing:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=855992
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFcX1uWYsaw
(yes this is top gear, not every 5aps has that, but extremes are useful for the psychological human mind... top gear magic squad would probably do it in 25min... a normal squad takes 40min-1hour)
lol yeah that was...psychological.
Does anybody know if ironguard can be spammed like hp/mp pots? (Just thinking out loud now ) 0 -
Ironguard is an apothecary item, they all share a 2minute cooldown. This DOES mean that you can't use any other apothecary item for 2 minutes.0
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my cleric has 9,9k hp unbuffed with 10,5k pdef self buffed, 16k with holy ironguard. I also have -46% channeling. even with that I can still die to their initial stunlocks w3w
if they 3fury, I just bunny hop away because there's no way to tank it. sleep doesn't always last long enough(holy effect is a scam).0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Sometimes words by themselves just aren't enough, you have to see the thing:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=855992
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFcX1uWYsaw
(yes this is top gear, not every 5aps has that, but extremes are useful for the psychological human mind... top gear magic squad would probably do it in 25min... a normal squad takes 40min-1hour)
That is a nice run b:surrender Here's another 5 minute run that was posted somewhere else on this forum, from the Japanese server, but I think it's before "hard mode":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJaE7j1N2E
No amount of top gear, -channeling, or refining for a Wizard could ever come close to that. Even that Veno was using fists!
But I agree that Wizards are great in TW. That is why I log on during weekends, for my weekly chance at a few minutes/hours of usefullness. Yay.0 -
That is a nice run b:surrender Here's another 5 minute run that was posted somewhere else on this forum, from the Japanese server, but I think it's before "hard mode":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJaE7j1N2E
No amount of top gear, -channeling, or refining for a Wizard could ever come close to that. Even that Veno was using fists!
But I agree that Wizards are great in TW. That is why I log on during weekends, for my weekly chance at a few minutes/hours of usefullness. Yay.
Doesn't even look like a challenge at all. They just run up and kill it in a few seconds and move on. Strange. Where's the sport?0
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