Attack speed nerf,rumor or reality?

Quilue - Sanctuary

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But...but... wizards weren't wanted in TT even before 5 apsb:sad

I wasn't done with the post before you quoted

Basically all it comes down to is PvE balance and casters complaining about not being necessary.

Steelation's problem is that he does too much other **** like AOE stun, AOE sleep, hp debuff, and something like a 4k damage AOE, making it much more desirable to just run in with 5.0s and chain Absolute Domain to kill it as fast as possible. This whole change in TT to making bosses more **** in general is not good, and further encourages 5.0 parties because killing it fast = less complications.

If TT bosses had less HP but did more interesting stuff, such that being ranged can make the fight successful but won't take too much longer, then this is a direction I think they should take. For example, if a boss could be stunned and paralyzed, but would always pace around otherwise, then you either have to work together with your squad to keep it in place for your 5.0s to kill it (so like some BMs and Assassins in the group would always have to be stun locking instead of DDing), or you can take a ranged squad to kill it.

One of the Nirvana bosses spawns an add that debuffed. If a TT boss can spawn and respawn multiple adds that debuffs and amps very often but don't interrupt, there you have a use for wizards.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its pretty spoiled to say that +45% more damage is garbage. A warsoul costs 6Billion coins and comes with attack level +50... 50% more damage.

check your math

for BMs/Barbs 1.43 * 1.45 = 2.0735 unsparked.

unless you are calculating interval %increase

in which case

base fist interval .7 - (.7 * .45) = .7 - .315 = .385 interval.

edit.. checked my own math b:shy

sylph did i for me anyway

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The reason I suggest "Attack Speed +5%" is that it is already an established mechanic of the game. You get Attack Speed +XX% from Demon Spark and other skills / buffs.

-Interval Between Hits is a completely different attack speed mechanic and suffers from asymptotic growth with fast weapons. Switching everything to Attack Speed +XX% would simplify things and speed up all physical weapons equally.

Attack Speed -% would not suffer from that problem. In fact it mirrors the exact level of growth that channel -% works by. With maximum of -50% roughly (post above shows 45-55%) it would essentially double someones DPS. But the reason i'm so strong on that mechanic, it is would double ANY physical DPSers DPS. The real problem with -Interval (not %) is that suffers from differing growth in DPS based on the starting spped of the weapon, claws can grow to 350% DPS (+250%) while axes gain at most +70% or so, gaining signifigantly less off the same stat boost. -% would allow everyone to grow at the same rate.

(Notes on below, i'm not sure exactly on the funny rounding, so numbers are slightly off, this is meant to demonstrate rough change in effectiveness but wont be exact, due to lack of the in-game "funny" rounding in calculations)

old (current) -Interval method (- Interval based on static amount)

---

Attack speed 0.83 Axes -> 1.20 Interval. -45 = .75 Interval -> 1.33 APS (60% dps gain)
Attack speed 1.43 Claws -> 0.70 Interval. -45 = .25 Interval -> 4 APS (180% dps gain)
Attack speed 1.25 Daggers -> 0.80 Interval. -55 = .25 Interval -> 4 APS (220% dps gain)

based on above post for max obtainable (but using -% Interval)

---

Attack speed 0.83 Axes -> 1.20 Interval. -45% = .66 Interval -> 1.52 APS (83% dps gain)
Attack speed 1.43 Claws -> 0.70 Interval. -45% = .385 Interval -> 2.60 APS (82% dps gain)
Attack speed 1.25 Daggers -> 0.80 Interval. -55% = .36 Interval -> 2.78 APS (122% dps gain)

Obviously in both cases the Daggers gain more, but thats because they get 55/45 more possible interval gear, so its to be expected. Otherwise, both the axes & the fists gain an equal portion of dps gain from -Interval gear. This as compared to the current method of giving fist users triple the dps gain of axe users. Think this is fair?

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Think this is fair?

I know all the casters do, but I doubt the 5 aps will (for obvious reasons)

Quilue - Sanctuary

Forgot to mention

Attack speed 1.43 Claws -> 0.70 Interval. -50% = .350 Interval -> 2.86 APS -> the familiar magical number which rounds to 4.0 APS Demon Sparked

thus making archers and assassins permasparked in the game while wearing ****-poor rank 4 chests yet incidentally not BMs. (Astypoo's evil scheme at works!)

Do you really need say, axes, to attack faster when they are not really auto-attack weapons to begin with? I am still in favor of changing instances to make casters fare better instead.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Forgot to mention

Attack speed 1.43 Claws -> 0.70 Interval. -50% = .350 Interval -> 2.86 APS -> the familiar magical number which rounds to 4.0 APS Demon Sparked

thus making archers and assassins permasparked in the game while wearing ****-poor rank 4 chests yet incidentally not BMs. (Astypoo's evil scheme at works!)

Keep in mind they'd need -50% for that, as compared to a much easier to obtain -.35 as before. Also i'd be in favor of removing all the funny rounding.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you really need say, axes, to attack faster when they are not really auto-attack weapons to begin with? I am still in favor of changing instances to make casters fare better instead.

One of the reason Axes arent auto attack & fists are, is because of the current scheme of -Interval. When attacking a single target, an axe weilder would be just as likely to auto attack. And skill sets should be used for their designed specialties, axes for AoEs, Fists for interupting bosses and such (not going to get into describing every ability). Auto-attacking would be equally beneficial under a -% scheme, and noone would say fist or axe is any worse or better in situations (mostly 1v1) which call for it.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its pretty spoiled to say that +45% more damage is garbage. A warsoul costs 6Billion coins and comes with attack level +50... 50% more damage.

Absolutely agree with you.

And +physical damage would be weaker... less chi gain. You guys forget the chi gaining which is total OP with high attack speed.

Desiree - Harshlands

Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No no, claws are really becoming archer only, and fists BM only. Atk speed wont be capped, but claws and fists dmg will be reduced by 50% (more balance, and more need for all 5 aps to refine higher = more cash for PWI). This girl told me she can read chinese, and she told me this will be implented in China in the next patch now, so it's true.

Link to original wanmei2's BBS post? Unless it a post in the developer's corner by a person of position, its nothing but speculation (and there's always plenty of that already in the main general discussion section)

Lupumid - Sanctuary

Desiree - Harshlands wrote: »

Link to original wanmei2's BBS post? Unless it a post in the developer's corner by a person of position, its nothing but speculation (and there's always plenty of that already in the main general discussion section)

He was being sarcastic.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Absolutely agree with you.

And +physical damage would be weaker... less chi gain. You guys forget the chi gaining which is total OP with high attack speed.

*summons Michael_Dark* ...again.

nobody is forgetting anything, read the title of the thread.

the point of this thread is to reduce the op'dnedss of the current -int paradigm.
personally i dont care. i have a 4.0 bm. the point was to make the stat less OP for fists only, and have it be effective for more weapons, which changing it to a +n% physical damage would do, since fists under 2.0 is fairly pointless anyway. changing the function of the stat would allow the stat to stay functional and not lead to everyone that has worked to gain gear with the stat quit, while leading BMs to rely more on using all their skill trees based on situation, as all trees would benefit, as well as not forcing barbs to restat to claws to be effective DPS wise, in addition to not killing demon spark, which is the reason so many people chose demon.

perma-spark is what makes 5.0s so OP, which is directly related to chi gain, the devs know this which is why interrupts were added to nirvana.

other ideas that have been floated are cooldowns on 3x Spark erupts which is also directly chi-gain related, and % speed increase which is also directly chi related.

what we might all be forgetting is that none of this will ever be implimented, because PWI makes too much money off escalation of gear among melee classes.

Quilue - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

what we might all be forgetting is that none of this will ever be implimented, because PWI makes too much money off escalation of gear among melee classes.

This is why I think a better approach would be to alter TT instances to suit every class more. As of now, pwn-**** bosses that debuff, self buff, and AOE **** in quick succession is clearly driving squads toward MORE 5.0s because it has become too obnoxious to farm with conventional squads efficiently. After all, people would have less problem with 5.0 if they were also being taken on TT/Nirvana squads and not feeling like they're just there to buff right?

Olbaze - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

perma-spark is what makes 5.0s so OP, which is directly related to chi gain, the devs know this which is why interrupts were added to nirvana.

No, it's not permasparking. After all, you can get permasparking with 4.0 APS. Or if you're a sin, you can technically get permaspark even with 2.86 APS sparked.

If permasparking was so OP, then you wouldn't have people looking at Sage sins are being utterly inferior. After all, a Sage Sin can still achieve permasparking while also having the 3% Bloodpaint and 33% Focused Mind.

what we might all be forgetting is that none of this will ever be implimented, because PWI makes too much money off escalation of gear among melee classes.

It also gives them a reason to alter the difficulty of instances to ridiculous levels by playing the card of "anti-cash shop-fueled farming".