Attack speed nerf,rumor or reality?

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I call bull**** unless barb was amped and debuffed to hell.

Was in TW . So HF might have been involved along with purge but since it's not a " staged dmg " scenario its pretty accurate to how hard Wizzies can hit. The actual hit was 44k ish .

volst

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

And if you want to be fair, against such a weapon, barb fails if he doesn't have +12 elemental ornaments. End of story.

Doubt it would matter. There's only like 3 real mdef buffs in the game. 1 from clerics, 1 bm only, and the others are wiz's. Unless you have a wiz army spamming the 79 skill on the barb, they're gonna get hit hard regardless.

Instead of complaining about aps, why aren't magic classes trying to get 100% channeling? You can get like 68% without any double adds.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

volst wrote: »

Doubt it would matter. There's only like 3 real mdef buffs in the game. 1 from clerics, 1 bm only, and the others are wiz's. Unless you have a wiz army spamming the 79 skill on the barb, they're gonna get hit hard regardless.

Cube necklace g14 +12 adds ~1500 mdef. Same for warsong belt... so that's ~3000 mdef purely from these orns.

Yes he would still get hit pretty hard... but that's about twice the resistance (my example barb was buffed as was I) hence probably twice the reduction, which makes it even harder. There's no weapon with a 3k+ range, and seeing as resistance would be double that means it has to have 6k+ range (best weapons +12 have like 2.5k) to do 30k without debuffs and stuff.

Now, why am I not taking debuffs and amps into account? Because a fist BM can have them too -- but they are just too lazy to just auto-attack.

Evanera - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I call bull**** unless barb was amped and debuffed to hell.

Er..hitting a barb for 30k is easy. I could do it with a crit with my HH99 weapon a few months ago..it's just simply not hard.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Cube necklace g14 +12 adds ~1500 mdef. Same for warsong belt... so that's ~3000 mdef purely from these orns.

Yes he would still get hit pretty hard... but that's about twice the resistance (my example barb was buffed as was I) hence probably twice the reduction, which makes it even harder. There's no weapon with a 3k+ range, and seeing as resistance would be double that means it has to have 6k+ range (best weapons +12 have like 2.5k) to do 30k without debuffs and stuff.

Now, why am I not taking debuffs and amps into account? Because a fist BM can have them too -- but they are just too lazy to just auto-attack.

*channels the ghost of Michael_Dark*

You're an idiot, sorry you don't know how to be a wizard.

in other news, a comet the size of mars will emerge from the other side of the sun in a couple weeks, revealing its collision course with earth, leaving the terrestrial population 2 days to say their final goodbyes before life is blinked out of existence. can anyone confirm or deny?

Smobo - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

in other news, a comet the size of mars will emerge from the other side of the sun in a couple weeks, revealing its collision course with earth, leaving the terrestrial population 2 days to say their final goodbyes before life is blinked out of existence. can anyone confirm or deny?

I heard someone's friend's brother seen this happened in the Chinese version of irl a few weeks ago so it must be happening here soon.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I heard someone's friend's brother seen this happened in the Chinese version of irl a few weeks ago so it must be happening here soon.

Yeah but the devs of IRL didnt like the changes. Apparantly it lowered sales in the cash shop signifigantly, what with the player base all reduced to rubble. They reverted the changes 2 weeks later, so we may not get the Comet in the U.S. version of IRL.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I heard they were making daggers cleric only.


They did it in china so it's definitely coming here.

No, no, I think that's a translation error.

That's a new cleric-only weapon, called Scalpels.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, no, I think that's a translation error.

That's a new cleric-only weapon, called Scalpels.

Surgery!!!!!!!!!! rofl

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A class that can 1 hit 30k+ HP barbs calling others overpowered ... oh the irony b:chuckle

Pfft
... There's a wizard on my server that camps room 11 of cube trying to kill people and he can't 1 shot the barbs that well....I can 2-3 hit him with G. 10 pole hammer lol....Wizard are only gonna 1 shot if the target is debuff and possibly they can build the chi ...and maybe if barb is afk and not use skills

kenlee

a skill like gush or pyro takes like 2 seconds and they do like 1.5-2k-ish on other players... claws/fists bm can already do like 5-7k-ish in that time. if thats the balance you're talking about then ok...

Kane_lust - Heavens Tear

Meh i think BM's are underpowered... =/ Now that sins can stealth we get pwned =D BM's Should Get amped to 6.0 and New BM Only rings and each ring gives is -.5 mhmm that would even everything out =D.

Oneji - Heavens Tear

I want to see a catshop using knife throwb:laugh.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Kane_lust - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Meh i think BM's are underpowered... =/ Now that sins can stealth we get pwned =D BM's Should Get amped to 6.0 and New BM Only rings and each ring gives is -.5 mhmm that would even everything out =D.

Yeah because 5 APS with axes is totally balanced.

Though, you'd have loads of fun getting killed by your own Zerk, unless you somehow got Bloodpaint.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're an idiot, sorry you don't know how to be a wizard.

I'm tired of morons who don't test it in controlled conditions then dare to open their mouths on stuff they have no clue about. Test it for the love of all that is scientific method, then open your mouth.

+7 tt99 weapon, lvl10 BIDS, 4.5k mdef barb, and I hit 5.2k to be exact. 490 mag I think (pure mag of course)

What is there to "know" about this? It's god damn math and game mechanics, it's not like by "knowing" stuff I can change the numbers for a simple BIDS attack. You want to put amps and debuffs into account? Funny, why don't we take those into account for fist BMs? Oh right, because they already do so much damage that it's not even needed! b:bye

Obviously you can put screenies of big damage but nobody gives a **** because that requires a lot of combo and coordination with your squad to pull off. It's not something you auto-attack and expect someone to go down. You also need genie energy probably and chi, and we're not that great at building the chi (unlike say, sins).

If you are afraid to test it out in controlled conditions giving the full condition description, and what you used and what weapon you had, and build etc, then shut up. You would be immediately disqualifed from any scientific analysis anyway -- continue reading your "Wizards are OP" bible though!

I know people don't like to test because they go against OP wizards with OP gear then QQ about being 1-shot by Gush. So by describing the conditions they would have to describe an OP weapon for the wiz -- or lie. But why do fist BMs need like +5 Deicides and are considered already "good"?

Evanera also, please just use BIDS in a duel, give me your weapon specs and tell me how high you hit on a barb and give me his mag res. No, do NOT use amps, debuffs or buffs (like frenzy) or genie or anything.

Oh not to mention I have Jones Blessing, not something people always had.

Feynira - Sanctuary

"And the Lord rest his eyes upon the Magus kind. 'In Decree of thou's Divine, hark the word of your Creator. The Magus seek power of the Lord, and the Lord demand the Magus face smiting in His name.' And he reached his Hand across the Heaven's sky, and the heretics of the magick kinds stood in fear. With his Will, he turn the Day into the Night and the heretic of the magick kinds turned from flesh and blood and into salt the color of blood."

Amen.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

volst wrote: »

Doubt it would matter. There's only like 3 real mdef buffs in the game. 1 from clerics, 1 bm only, and the others are wiz's. Unless you have a wiz army spamming the 79 skill on the barb, they're gonna get hit hard regardless.

Instead of complaining about aps, why aren't magic classes trying to get 100% channeling? You can get like 68% without any double adds.

theres a different here. for a magic class to atk at all they have a channel time and a cast time added together to get the total time it takes to attack. if a magic class has 100% channel they still do less than 2x their normal overall DPS because they still have the cast time.

fist/claws on the other hand can multiply their damage just from interval gear. claws start at 1.43 aps. lets say a bm gets 2.86 aps (deicide, TT99 wrists, TT99 bonuses, and either a int cape or tome). then without demon spark they already have doubled their dps.

DeadSound - Lost City

Kane_lust - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Meh i think BM's are underpowered... =/ Now that sins can stealth we get pwned =D BM's Should Get amped to 6.0 and New BM Only rings and each ring gives is -.5 mhmm that would even everything out =D.

huh? how would that even anything out? BM's are anything BUT under powered even without full 5 aps they can kill any class easily.
How are you getting pwnd by sins at your lvl? b:shocked

Typhyse - Sanctuary

Feynira - Sanctuary wrote: »

"And the Lord rest his eyes upon the Magus kind. 'In Decree of thou's Divine, hark the word of your Creator. The Magus seek power of the Lord, and the Lord demand the Magus face smiting in His name.' And he reached his Hand across the Heaven's sky, and the heretics of the magick kinds stood in fear. With his Will, he turn the Day into the Night and the heretic of the magick kinds turned from flesh and blood and into salt the color of blood."

Amen.

Lol wut?
BTW, I started BoI a few days ago and I like it

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I'm in favor of them removing "interval between hits -0.5s" property all together and replacing it with "Attack Speed +5%".

That means all weapons would be speed up by like 50% instead of axes being speed up by 50% while claws get speed up by 350%.

DeadSound - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

That means all weapons would be speed up by like 50% instead of axes being speed up by 50% while claws get speed up by 350%.

High speed axe damage b:shocked

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lol wut?

I LOL'd at it tbh. I think it was as a response to my "wizards are OP" bible. b:laugh

Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »

BTW, I started BoI a few days ago and I like it

I heard teh cash shop has overpowered pets like herc/nix and in that game pets do most of the job so... be warned.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

DeadSound - Lost City wrote: »

High speed axe damage b:shocked

yea but +50% atk rate on axes would put them at the speed of daggers and +50% on claws at just over 2 aps which I dot know that either would be considered over powered. even if you could stack up +100% atk rate claws would still be at 2.86 atk/sec and not 5

Feynira - Sanctuary

@Typhyse

Borsuc got it right; it was a comment at his 'wizards are OP' bible.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm in favor of them removing "interval between hits -0.5s" property all together and replacing it with "Attack Interval -5%".

That means all weapons would be speed up by like 50% instead of axes being speed up by 50% while claws get speed up by 350%.

This is the exact suggestion i've been making forever, seems to fall of deaf ears (except its "Attack Interval -5%" i've been trying to suggest). Using this setup, the standard "5.0" build would actually lead to roughly 3.0 for fists, which seems to be the number that the false rumor mills have been circling around & players suggestions seem to think is fair. In addition, weapons like Axes & Bows would also get a boost to the functionality of -Interval, they wouldnt get 3.0, would actually be about 1.5 i think, but it would be a similar % increase in DPS as what fist users see. It would basically round out the functionality of -Interval to affect all weapons DPS evenly, similarly to how channeling works now, slow or fast speels, get an equal increase in DPS based on quickening of the casts.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

The reason I suggest "Attack Speed +5%" is that it is already an established mechanic of the game. You get Attack Speed +XX% from Demon Spark and other skills / buffs.

-Interval Between Hits is a completely different attack speed mechanic and suffers from asymptotic growth with fast weapons. Switching everything to Attack Speed +XX% would simplify things and speed up all physical weapons equally.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

TT99HA bonus +5%
TT99LA bonus +5%
TT99 sleeves +10%
Lunar cape +5%
pangu/love tome +5%
Nirvana legs +5%
deicides extra stat+10%

totals 45% increase possible
for BM/barbs

for archers/sins

rank 8 top +10%

total 55% increase possible

starting with base attack speed for claw/fists @ 1.43 att/sec

for BMs/Barbs 1.43 * 1.45 = 2.0735 unsparked ~ 2.59 sparked

for archers/sins 1.43 * 1.55 = 2.2 a/s unsparked ~ 2.7 sparked

the change proposed in this thread would make interval gear ostensibly garbage

for a BM to spend roughly 600m gearing up to hit 2 times instead of 1.5 times a second would be far too much of a slap in the face for any one who has already geared up to continue playing, and would put enormous cramp in pack sales, as the increased damage output would be barely noticeable.

instead why not convert the interval stat into a +n% physical damage stat? This would keep all damage increases on each weapon equal, while still maintaining the benefits of attack speed increases for sparking, cyclone heel, wind shield, without the 5.0 madness.

+n% physical damage would also be far easier to impliment, i've seen it in *cough* other versions

Quilue - Sanctuary

what's the point of +% physical damage? why not just change to attack levels then?

I think 5.0 has been around for too long for such a drastic change to be acceptable. What they need to do is just buff caster's PvE damage output or create instances where casters are needed.

Steelation having a 5.0 buff, for example, is definitely pointing to urging people to get a veno in your party. Stuff like that.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

TT99HA bonus +5%
TT99LA bonus +5%
TT99 sleeves +10%
Lunar cape +5%
pangu/love tome +5%
Nirvana legs +5%
deicides extra stat+10%

totals 45% increase possible
for BM/barbs

for archers/sins

rank 8 top +10%

total 55% increase possible

starting with base attack speed for claw/fists @ 1.43 att/sec

for BMs/Barbs 1.43 * 1.45 = 2.0735 unsparked ~ 2.59 sparked

for archers/sins 1.43 * 1.55 = 2.2 a/s unsparked ~ 2.7 sparked

the change proposed in this thread would make interval gear ostensibly garbage

Its pretty spoiled to say that +45% more damage is garbage. A warsoul costs 6Billion coins and comes with attack level +50... 50% more damage.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

what's the point of +% physical damage? why not just change to attack levels then?

I think 5.0 has been around for too long for such a drastic change to be acceptable. What they need to do is just buff caster's PvE damage output or create instances where casters are needed.

Steelation having a 5.0 buff, for example, is definitely pointing to urging people to get a veno in your party. Stuff like that.

But...but... wizards weren't wanted in TT even before 5 apsb:sad