PWI and institutionalised homophobia

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Comments

  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    GrimReaperHC wrote: »
    Okay, let's calm down now.
    First of all - yes I get insulted when someone calls me a '****'. It might be weird for some of you, but it's normal since we are living in different countries with different cultures and different public behavior.
    Second - I`m not a **** if this will help. I`m heterosexual and I do have a girlfriend.
    Third - The OP of that "Grim is ****" thread didn't mean to insult me. And I`m 105 % sure. He just had a little joke. Why am I sure ? Because I know the OP and we are friends for like 15 years already. In real life, yes I do have a real life, we are making such jokes to each other. Just like we are typing stupid things on our walls when someone of us forgets his facebook account logged b:chuckle
    Fourth - He wont come back to the forums again. He is not the type of people who love browsing forums and such. His English is really bad and he would understand only like 5 % of the posts in the forums.
    Fifth - He decided to come in the forums just because he found out that I became a mod. I was wondering why he was smiling so much when I saw him today. Well 30 minutes later when I got on the forums I found out why lol.

    I would have expected a moderator to be able to format his post better.

    Also, I would not expect somebody who cannot post in true English himself (you have stated English isn't your first language I believe and I and others have noticed this in a number of your posts) to seemingly chastise somebody for not knowing English very well.
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  • felweniel
    felweniel Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    GrimReaperHC wrote: »
    Okay, let's calm down now.
    First of all - yes I get insulted when someone calls me a '****'. It might be weird for some of you, but it's normal since we are living in different countries with different cultures and different public behavior.
    Second - I`m not a **** if this will help. I`m heterosexual and I do have a girlfriend.
    Third - The OP of that "Grim is ****" thread didn't mean to insult me. And I`m 105 % sure. He just had a little joke. Why am I sure ? Because I know the OP and we are friends for like 15 years already. In real life, yes I do have a real life, we are making such jokes to each other. Just like we are typing stupid things on our walls when someone of us forgets his facebook account logged b:chuckle
    Fourth - He wont come back to the forums again. He is not the type of people who love browsing forums and such. His English is really bad and he would understand only like 5 % of the posts in the forums.
    Fifth - He decided to come in the forums just because he found out that I became a mod. I was wondering why he was smiling so much when I saw him today. Well 30 minutes later when I got on the forums I found out why lol.

    This thread should be closed and I hope ur "friend" does realise that it was a poor choice to do this since u are his "friend" and u have to deal with his actions now..
  • Deora - Lost City
    Deora - Lost City Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I would have expected a moderator to be able to format his post better.
    ikr...
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Also, I would not expect somebody who cannot post in true English himself (you have stated English isn't your first language I believe and I and others have noticed this in a number of your posts) to seemingly chastise somebody for not knowing English very well.

    And then he wonders why he isn't liked...
  • buttercupcruella
    buttercupcruella Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I would have expected a moderator to be able to format his post better.

    Also, I would not expect somebody who cannot post in true English himself (you have stated English isn't your first language I believe and I and others have noticed this in a number of your posts) to seemingly chastise somebody for not knowing English very well.

    It was a statement of truth. He admitted English is not his first language, but he still has the right to state a fact that somebody else speaks no English, or very little of it. No?

    Also, seriously, people (not directed at Airyll atm), read things before you post. Oh, some people can't read...b:shutup
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  • Aldryami - Sanctuary
    Aldryami - Sanctuary Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Whether I'm called a "Jew", a "****", a "monkey" or a "Homo neanderthalensis" my stock response is to smile happily at how wonderful it might feel to be one of these things and to thank the informant for their interest in what I might be.

    I suggest that this outlook leads to a happy life.
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i'm at a loss to see how you could possibly think that helps the argument. if anything, it underscores and supports the OP's point considerably.

    I was trying to say that the word "****", as it is being used often now a days by the younger population, doesn't necessarily contain the connotations of homosexuality. I don't see how it can be homophobia when someone who said it without thinking anything closely related to homosexuality. Maybe the negative feeling associated with the word is enough to consider it to be homophobia? I don't know. I don't think too much about them things. b:surrender
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  • Aldryami - Sanctuary
    Aldryami - Sanctuary Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I was trying to say that the word "****", as it is being used often now a days by the younger population, doesn't necessarily contain the connotations of homosexuality. I don't see how it can be homophobia when someone who said it without thinking anything closely related to homosexuality. Maybe the negative feeling associated with the word is enough to consider it to be homophobia? I don't know. I don't think too much about them things. b:surrender

    I think you both made very good points.

    I agree Roid that the meanings of words change through time. Sociolects can emerge which contain words that are entirely divorced from their original meaning. It is possible that, in some communities, this has happened with the word "****" in which case its use as a general term of displeasure would have no homophobic connotations.

    Perhaps this is what we have witnessed in my original link.


    EDIT: I find the journey that the word has taken interesting: happy>>homosexual>>horrid
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8636/idioticthread.jpg
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
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  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Ok guys, time to log off the computer for a while and go play outside.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I was trying to say that the word "****", as it is being used often now a days by the younger population, doesn't necessarily contain the connotations of homosexuality.

    are its connotations neutral or positive? if not, how did it get to be an insult in the first place?

    let's do a thought experiment. assume you think somebody lacks personal courage, and you wish to level an insult at them because of this. you choose to employ an invective sometimes also used to describe housecats --- or, perhaps more often, female genitalia.

    now, clearly you're not literally calling them a housecat. (felis domesticus doesn't usually lack for courage, considering their size, anyway.) nor are you likely literally saying they have feminine genitalia. (if the person you're trying to insult is, in fact, a woman --- would you have chosen that particular insult? do you think it would have worked as well?)

    so why do you think that word is an insult in the first place? by now you know my answer: institutionalized misogyny. "*****" is only a synonym for "coward" if one accepts, at some deep level, that women are generally cowardly --- which is a sexist thing to assume. or, at very least, if one isn't willing to think about what one is saying and how it's supposed to work, but rather simply accepts the prejudices and bigotries prevalent in one's culture without questioning them. which is pretty much the definition of institutionalized prejudice... which is what the OP is complaining about.
    I don't see how it can be homophobia when someone who said it without thinking anything closely related to homosexuality. Maybe the negative feeling associated with the word is enough to consider it to be homophobia? I don't know. I don't think too much about them things. b:surrender

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  • Mannimacro - Heavens Tear
    Mannimacro - Heavens Tear Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    a real **** is a chemical imbalance in the brain that cause u to be attracted to the wrong pheromones. a fake **** is someone who wants attention by being "wierd" or different. either way both are wrong and shouldn't be glorafied in any means. so gtfo and stop QQ'n about anything involving **** cause they arent' worth the QQ, save it for the devs!!!!!!
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Let me just make this statement as I believe it's important for both sides of this damn fight:


    There is no way in HELL this thread will help the GMs and the users understand one another; this will only make things worse.

    Why?

    Because whether we like it or not, "****" is used as an insult all the flippin' time. This isn't about whether or not "****" should or should not be used as a derogatory word: it's about the fact that, last I checked, what the accused person did is VERY common. If **** as a derogatory term is a bad thing (and sure, why shouldn't it be?), there's no reason to call out any individual who uses it, but rather the culture as a whole that does use it. Despite this, the accused mod is getting special treatment and special attention for using the word.


    So what does this say to the mods? It basically says "we f***ing hate you and we'll take absolutely everything you say and do and demonize it." I'm 100% sure that mod was not the first person to call something ****, and I'm 100% sure some of the people saying how horrible this is use "****" as an insult every day. This means that when a mod or GM reads this thread, they'll lose hope. They'll stop trying to impress or please the community, because this thread blatantly says "fat chance, we'll demonize every action you make and exaggerate all of your faults."


    So sure, if you want to make things worse, go ahead and yell at them for talking like everyone else. To repeat, I have absolutely nothing against those who wish to see "****" stricken from the insult books, but at this day in age with the word's current usage, I do find it unfair to call out an individual instead of calling out the culture as a whole.
    On the other hand, we can calm down and stop trying to find every fault made by an authority figure ever, and maybe they'll then have hope of seeing results for their hard work instead of just insults.


    It only makes sense, doesn't it?
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Aldryami - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Whether I'm called a "Jew", a "****", a "monkey" or a "Homo neanderthalensis" my stock response is to smile happily at how wonderful it might feel to be one of these things and to thank the informant for their interest in what I might be.

    I suggest that this outlook leads to a happy life.

    then let me be the first to ask you... are you a **** neanderthalensis monkey jew? if so... more power to you.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
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  • Noskrad - Heavens Tear
    Noskrad - Heavens Tear Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    "****" is just a boy who falls in love with other boys, and it shouldn't be used as an insult, cuz I see nothing wrong on falling in love with anyone of your same sex, ppl always say that there's nothing wrong with it, but at same time are using the word "****" as an insult. To use it as an insutl has no logic, cuz it's like if you were using any other word like "hetero"; or "medic", or "comics fan" or any other normal kind of ppl names as insults.

    To use words like "idiot", "stupid" or things like that as an insult has sense, but "****"? lolz where's the logic? unless you think that **** were sent by Lucifer or something like that lolz if you think so, you need help from a professional.

    I have many **** friends who did a lot for me and make my life happier, just like all my other friends do, and it hurts me when they are used as an insult, it's not only ilogic, but also cruel and stupid.

    Edit: With this, I'm not judging a mod only, I'm judging the whole society.
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  • Manakel - Lost City
    Manakel - Lost City Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    IMO being called **** isn't an insult. >> I'm of the homosexual persuasion, and I use it all the time.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Ok, this isn't actually complicated. Yes, homophobia and misogyny are implied in the use of "****" as an offensive term. This is very unfortunate and may be ultimately unavoidable since simbolically aggresive sexual behahiour seems a norm for establishing dominance amongst mammals, and is especially prevalent in primates. Implying sexual submission is very offensive regardless of cultural background, and this is the undertone and true meaning the word, harmless in itself, is meant to convey. To call a man **** is to simbolically castrate him and make of him a woman subject to the advances of the aggresive party. This is regardless of actual circumstances, and is the reason **** becomes ineffective when used against a woman, since implying femeninity in her case would not be offensive. **** may be used as an insult but for very different reasons. However a woman calling a man **** does simbolically become a man herself, which many men find especially offensive. Remember this is simbolical language and it is not meant to be taken literally.

    This is something we all understand at an instinctual level and since social hyerarchy is a thing learned at a very early age this explains why a little boy will insult another calling him a girl, which really is very much the same thing. Whether we may one day hope to rid ourselves of such anachronisms as a species remains unfortunately a matter of speculation.

    Whether **** is an offensive term or not depends on context. Few healthy adults are offended when the word is used to describe sexual orientation for instance, and a straight or heterosexual man would not be offended at being called **** in a context in which it is obvious an honest mistake has been made, if on a **** bar for instance. It is the hidden meaning when used as an insult that is offensive, and in this context it will be considered an insult even by **** men, since sexual orientation does not imply submissive behaviour.

    Edit; And Mannimacro your ignorance is offensive. The only unbalanced **** brain is that of men like you, that have so been brainwashed by society that you transform your natural sexual orientation into hate. Heterosexual men are very rarely homophobic...
  • Arliana - Dreamweaver
    Arliana - Dreamweaver Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Ironically... this webcomic came out today which summaries this.

    http://zs1.smbc-comics.com/comics/20101001.gif

    Thing is.. **** could also be happy. So... grim is happy?
  • Deora - Lost City
    Deora - Lost City Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Arliana - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ironically... this webcomic came out today which summaries this.

    http://zs1.smbc-comics.com/comics/20101001.gif

    Thing is.. **** could also be happy. So... grim is happy?

    I am amazed no one brought that up.
  • buttercupcruella
    buttercupcruella Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Deora - Lost City wrote: »
    I am amazed no one brought that up.

    Yet another example of people who do NOT read what they quote/write about. If you wanna flame/discuss properly, at least do your homework!!! I guess there's a lot of people like you, so, most won't care, but I still need to say this. Maybe some1 will someday wake up and start READING.b:surrender

    I didn't bring it up because ... it says: "Grim is A ****"
    Do you see why now??? The 'a' makes it impossible for the sentence to mean Grim is happy. If it was "Grim is ****", then yes. BUT IT SAYS GRIM IS A ****.

    This was just to point out your flaws people.... Gee... kiddos/undereducated people indeed.
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  • gamesdead
    gamesdead Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Being ****/ calling some1 **** is an insult.
    Being **** is not normal behavior, its a deviation, theres error in their gene code, and thats a fact, **** ppl should go to therapies to become normal.
    First step is admitting that u have a problem.
    Im not against **** ppl who admit that they have a problem.
    Im against **** ppl who are proud of being ****, and normal ppl who think that being **** is normal state, when its not.(same thing with necrophilia, zoophilia etc, are we gonna call those diseases normal state of human being)
    (soon being normal will be 'out', and minorities will have more rights than normal ppl)
    **** loby is huge.........b:surrender
  • anwynd
    anwynd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    wow people must be bored hmm now tht i recall i sure have used tht word alot to insult people lol ah fun times fun times *walks out of thread *
    Collector of pet eggs, armor, weapons, fashion, and mountsb:chuckle
  • anwynd
    anwynd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    gamesdead wrote: »
    Being ****/ calling some1 **** is an insult.
    Being **** is not normal behavior, its a deviation, theres error in their gene code, and thats a fact, **** ppl should go to therapies to become normal.
    First step is admitting that u have a problem.
    Im not against **** ppl who admit that they have a problem.
    Im against **** ppl who are proud of being ****, and normal ppl who think that being **** is normal state, when its not.(same thing with necrophilia, zoophilia etc, are we gonna call those diseases normal state of human being)
    (soon being normal will be 'out', and minorities will have more rights than normal ppl)
    **** loby is huge.........b:surrender

    you no i watched a long *** show about tht i never thought it was caused from something like tht & me personnaly im against **** people i can work with them i can talk to them but i do not approve of them i try not to show it tho as so it doesnt result in a fightb:avoid
    Collector of pet eggs, armor, weapons, fashion, and mountsb:chuckle
  • Bastilla - Raging Tide
    Bastilla - Raging Tide Posts: 379 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    gamesdead wrote: »
    Being ****/ calling some1 **** is an insult.
    Being **** is not normal behavior, its a deviation, theres error in their gene code, and thats a fact, **** ppl should go to therapies to become normal.
    First step is admitting that u have a problem.
    Im not against **** ppl who admit that they have a problem.
    Im against **** ppl who are proud of being ****, and normal ppl who think that being **** is normal state, when its not.(same thing with necrophilia, zoophilia etc, are we gonna call those diseases normal state of human being)
    (soon being normal will be 'out', and minorities will have more rights than normal ppl)
    **** loby is huge.........b:surrender


    hello there gsnipes
  • Aldryami - Sanctuary
    Aldryami - Sanctuary Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Deora - Lost City wrote: »
    I am amazed no one brought that up.

    I did. Scan my posts.


    And as for me being a **** Jewish neanderthal monkey; yes I am in my imagination. If anyone calls me anything I spend a moment imagining being it. Try it!
  • Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear
    Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    gamesdead wrote: »
    Being ****/ calling some1 **** is an insult.
    Being **** is not normal behavior, its a deviation, theres error in their gene code, and thats a fact, **** ppl should go to therapies to become normal.
    First step is admitting that u have a problem.
    Im not against **** ppl who admit that they have a problem.
    Im against **** ppl who are proud of being ****, and normal ppl who think that being **** is normal state, when its not.(same thing with necrophilia, zoophilia etc, are we gonna call those diseases normal state of human being)
    (soon being normal will be 'out', and minorities will have more rights than normal ppl)
    **** loby is huge.........b:surrender

    hello troll..

    bye troll.. b:bye
    *Semi retired*
  • gamesdead
    gamesdead Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    hello troll..

    bye troll.. b:bye

    Im not troll (do you even know the definition of troll)
    I was stating the true nothing more

    http://www.zombietime.com/up_your_alley_2008/part_1_full/index.php
    Look what **** ppl do, and tell me its normal.....
  • chaoticshelly
    chaoticshelly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    That should be enough for now. Please don't disucss any more offensive topics such as this and refrain from spamming the general forums. Thanks.
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