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    • Posts: 10,466 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      79 water skill is pretty much a frost arrow combined with wizzy frost blade for 10 seconds. its a crappy skill.

      Me suppose it be like the water damage adding apoc pot.
      .-.
      Mayhaps if you wana do a bit moar magic damage you could use it....but it only lasts for 10 seconds and doesn't really add much apparently.
      xD
      darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
      Hawk:Do this. closing thread
      frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
      Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
      Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
      LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
      Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
      Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      it also increases attack by 75%
      well, happened to have that book today and was just the crit increase on it as description but i guess like most mastery skills also increase atk
      Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »
      Are you trying to imply that those 2 alone would give you the edge on a WR hitting at your same rate with 5k more Patk? Not counting all the hits you lose by actually casting them. Please.

      I'm not saying sins' dps doesn't destroy warriors' by a long shot, I'm just saying that your comparison was just very exaggerated.
      well i know a sin with +10 fc daggers (has also all interval items) that was killing a boss before my amp fade. for a bm with +10 deicide took him 1-2 min
      wolf emblem is actually instant cast
    • Posts: 2,897 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Deals damage based on your attack plus 1817.4 physical damage.
      Also Slows target by 50% for 5 seconds.
      Also adds 50% Water damage to your normal attack for 10 seconds.
      even with frost blade, you dont even notice the damage too much. it adds a tiny bit of water damage, its a useless skill
      well, happened to have that book today and was just the crit increase on it as description but i guess like most mastery skills also increase atk
      all demon melee masteries add 75% damage/2% crit
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      advice to fledgling archers:
      Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
    • Posts: 623 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      What does "Adds 50% Water damage to your normal attack" mean? 50% of what, the damage you're already doing? Give me answers b:angry
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      even with frost blade, you dont even notice the damage too much. it adds a tiny bit of water damage, its a useless skill
      well frostblade is useless because is counting your magic atk as additional damage. most physical classes have like 1-1 or 50-50 (buffed). 50% of your magic atk is still useless since frostblade should never lvl past 1 (for chi purpose)
    • Posts: 2,897 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      lol prays this isnt a double post.

      similar geared sin and blademaster, sin wins hands down.

      1. better damage per refine
      2. has higher crit
      3. higher crit damaging buffs
      4. can add in 2spark moves in between for extra spikes, ie power dash, subsea etc.

      bm on the other hand is better in parties
      1. way better tank
      2. better party buff
      3. more stuns for emergencies
      4. better amp.

      depends on the situation, but they both work well hand in hand

      @kenlee i believe it adds off the wizards m.atk, not yours
      @cleric dude, it adds 50% of your base attack, like blazing arrow does for archers, which isnt much
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      advice to fledgling archers:
      Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
    • Posts: 623 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      lol prays this isnt a double post.

      similar geared sin and blademaster, sin wins hands down.

      1. better damage per refine
      2. has higher crit
      3. higher crit damaging buffs
      4. can add in 2spark moves in between for extra spikes, ie power dash, subsea etc.

      bm on the other hand is better in parties
      1. way better tank
      2. better party buff
      3. more stuns for emergencies
      4. better amp.

      depends on the situation, but they both work well hand in hand

      @kenlee i believe it adds off the wizards m.atk, not yours
      @cleric dude, it adds 50% of your base attack, like blazing arrow does for archers

      We already know all of this, that's not the point. Traz said a sin w/ +5 nirvana daggers w/ 2 flawless garnets could out-DD a BM with +12 striking dragon/2x drakeflames. And if condensed thorn adds 50% of your base physical in water damage, that's CRAZY good.

      Edit: you'd basically be increasing your dps by 50%, assuming mob has similar water/physical resistance.
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      @kenlee i believe it adds off the wizards m.atk, not yours
      i wish but it has been tested. imagine 50% additional damage from 18k magic atk
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      depends on the situation, but they both work well hand in hand
      they always go hand in hand. one is more of a support (which was designed from start) with hf/glacial while the other is DD
    • Posts: 10,466 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      @kenlee i believe it adds off the wizards m.atk, not yours
      @cleric dude, it adds 50% of your base attack, like blazing arrow does for archers, which isnt much

      No, frostblade really be based on the receivers which be why a level 1 lowbie can't 1 shot level 15+ mobs after receiving a triple sparked frostblade from a 100+ wizzy.

      And yep it's probably just adding 50% of base attack or so....
      Obviously it isn't adding 50% MOAR damage. (would be completely broken then lol.)
      Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      We already know all of this, that's not the point. Traz said a sin w/ +5 nirvana daggers w/ 2 flawless garnets could out-DD a BM with +12 striking dragon/2x drakeflames. And if condensed thorn adds 50% of your base physical in water damage, that's CRAZY good.

      Edit: you'd basically be increasing your dps by 50%, assuming mob has similar water/physical resistance.

      Tojop, what part of base physical damage do you not understand? (psst, it's the damage you do without any gear/tomes on)
      b:puzzled
      darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
      Hawk:Do this. closing thread
      frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
      Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
      Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
      LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
      Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
      Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
      58% chance to get tokens
      41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
      1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 2,897 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Breathe an icy breath onto a squad member's weapon giving
      their normal attacks extra Water damage equal to 40% of
      your base magic attack. Lasts 15 minutes.

      doesnt that say 'your' as in the wizards?
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      advice to fledgling archers:
      Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
    • Posts: 10,466 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      doesnt that say 'your' as in the wizards?

      Description be flawed, we has already done testing with frostblade.
      x.x'
      Apparently the results has not spread to the other parts of the forums.


      Frostblade = 100% sure that it works on some factor of the receiver, not the caster. (since a level 100 wizzy would still do a decent punch damage compared to a level 1.)
      darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
      Hawk:Do this. closing thread
      frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
      Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
      Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
      LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
      Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
      Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
      58% chance to get tokens
      41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
      1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 623 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      MagicHamsta, until you edited I actually didn't know what you meant by "base physical damage." I thought it meant the numbers currently in your status screen. BTW, a level 100 full dex sin w/out gear has base p attack of 103, so....skill seems awful, and yet Traz maintains.

      Edit: or once again, I've completely misunderstood something.
    • Posts: 10,466 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      MagicHamsta, until you edited I actually didn't know what you meant by "base physical damage." I thought it meant the numbers currently in your status screen. BTW, a level 100 full dex sin w/out gear has base p attack of 103, so....skill seems awful, and yet Traz maintains.

      Edit: or once again, I've completely misunderstood something.

      It be okie.
      .-.
      This even took me an entire 2 hours to understand back (me should have realized humans would be capable of creating such unwieldy and inelegant systems) when me was playing other games which implemented a similar system of stuff.
      darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
      Hawk:Do this. closing thread
      frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
      Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
      Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
      LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
      Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
      Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
      58% chance to get tokens
      41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
      1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 2,897 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      heres the diff between a water damage added into the formula vs non, do not chastize me if this is not how it works but:

      (1 + dex / 150 + added damages as a %)

      take a pure dex sin at 100:
      (1 + 400 / 150 + .60 (mastery) + .5 (water)) / (1 + 400 / 150 + .6)= 4.7666666666666666666666666666667 / 4.2666666666666666666666666666667 = 1.1171875

      its about an 11% p.atk increase which is hardly anything in terms of buffs.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      advice to fledgling archers:
      Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
    • Posts: 690 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      has anyone actually tested condense thorn tho to see if it works differently from frost blade?

      or if condensed thorn stacks with frost blade?
    • Posts: 623 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      I will as soon as I'm able to log into game. I wish Traz hadn't gone to sleep :(
    • Posts: 7,881 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      heres the diff between a water damage added into the formula vs non, do not chastize me if this is not how it works but:

      (1 + dex / 150 + added damages as a %)

      take a pure dex sin at 100:
      (1 + 400 / 150 + .60 (mastery) + .5 (water)) / (1 + 400 / 150 + .6)= 4.7666666666666666666666666666667 / 4.2666666666666666666666666666667 = 1.1171875

      its about an 11% p.atk increase which is hardly anything in terms of buffs.

      Its actually a bit less. I know for blazing arrow you only use the bow damage and not damage from rings / ammo / other stuff. I'm pretty sure Poison Fang / Frostblade work on same principle.

      If the sin does the power dash skill cancel glitch along with wolf emblem a +5 nirv dagger will out DD +12 striking dragon (assuming BM is doing their DBB glitch).
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    • Posts: 4,943 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
      If the sin does the power dash skill cancel glitch along with wolf emblem a +5 nirv dagger will out DD +12 striking dragon (assuming BM is doing their DBB glitch).

      Shhh not many Sins know about it, let's keep it that way b:avoid. You'd only want to cancel after spark because cancel pre spark only leaves you like 2-1 second time for the effect. To cancel after spark, you'll need to use Inner, which means you can only get the buff once every minute. So canceling Dash essentially is the same as just using Dash (but slower) if you are triple sparking.

      5 APS Sin out DPS 5 APS BM for sure. But I think saying +5 Nirvana daggers with G8 out DPS +12 TT100 fists with G12 is quite an overstatement.
    • Posts: 4,286 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      I would say a fist BM or possibly a sword.
      Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
    • Posts: 1,086 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
      heres the diff between a water damage added into the formula vs non, do not chastize me if this is not how it works but:

      (1 + dex / 150 + added damages as a %)

      take a pure dex sin at 100:
      (1 + 400 / 150 + .60 (mastery) + .5 (water)) / (1 + 400 / 150 + .6)= 4.7666666666666666666666666666667 / 4.2666666666666666666666666666667 = 1.1171875

      its about an 11% p.atk increase which is hardly anything in terms of buffs.

      Try actually using it, you can see the damage increase from it (did a bunch of testing with it when I first got it, on mobs it added about 1k-1.5k more dmg per hit and I have crappy +2 daggers right now..., very useful on heavy people actually...)
      Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
      has anyone actually tested condense thorn tho to see if it works differently from frost blade?

      or if condensed thorn stacks with frost blade?

      Cancels frostblade and doesn't stack
    • Posts: 7,881 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
      Shhh not many Sins know about it, let's keep it that way b:avoid. You'd only want to cancel after spark because cancel pre spark only leaves you like 2-1 second time for the effect. To cancel after spark, you'll need to use Inner, which means you can only get the buff once every minute. So canceling Dash essentially is the same as just using Dash (but slower) if you are triple sparking.

      5 APS Sin out DPS 5 APS BM for sure. But I think saying +5 Nirvana daggers with G8 out DPS +12 TT100 fists with G12 is quite an overstatement.

      If you do it manually you can spark at 399 chi and 4 seconds into your spark you can glitch powerdash to give you +40% crit for the next 8s with 3 seconds to spare (less the time to do the glitch). Inner harmony you can use to recover if you fail to exploit the glitch and consume the sparks.

      An endgame sin who knows how to exploit this has 80% crit more than half the time sparked. Combined with wolf emblem and the DBB abusing BM with +12 tt100 won't be able to keep up.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
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    • Posts: 379 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      condensed thorn lasts 5 seconds, ijs
    • Posts: 4,843 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »
      Theres been many threads about how OP the sins are and my own (limited) experience is that my psychic is the highest DPS that I have by a mile (I have played everything except a bm or a herc veno)

      In WC today someone was asking for 2 bm's for FC 95+. I asked why and she said bm's are highest DPS by far.

      What happens to sins and psychics at those levels. How do the bm's still maintain the highest DPS?

      Thanks for any thoughts cause I might roll one....

      Psys are the highest DPS for the majority of the game. At end-game though, when -interval gear pops up, sins and BMs start hitting much faster.


      Dunno how much a sin or BM can hit per second, but Psys will cap out at about 10k dps.
      I <3 AGOREY
    • Posts: 4,943 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      A easy way to see the actual damage of Condensed Thorn is to use it on someone who used Expel.
    • Posts: 2,843 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
      I would say a fist BM or possibly a sword.

      LOL b:laugh
      BladedZero - Sanctuary
      "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

      -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
    • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »
      What happens to sins and psychics at those levels.
      Not sure why you included sins there as they have the highest DPS in the game.

      What happens to psys/magic classes in general?

      Well the question probably would better be, what happens to melee classes with fast weapons? They get -interval.

      Read up on it and see how broken it is. I wish I knew this before playing this game.
    • Posts: 2,843 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »
      Not sure why you included sins there as they have the highest DPS in the game.

      What happens to psys/magic classes in general?

      Well the question probably would better be, what happens to melee classes with fast weapons? They get -interval.

      Read up on it and see how broken it is. I wish I knew this before playing this game.

      If -chan gear was just as easy to get in pack as -int I'm pretty sure we would be complaining EVEN MORE then we are about the -int. b:surrender
      BladedZero - Sanctuary
      "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

      -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
    • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Nonsense. What's the best you can get from -channeling, I believe even with full -channel it's around 2 to 2.5 times the DPS. Hardly comparable.

      EDIT: on a wizard. even less of a difference on a psychic.
    • Posts: 2,843 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »
      Nonsense. What's the best you can get from -channeling, I believe even with full -channel it's around 2 to 2.5 times the DPS. Hardly comparable.

      EDIT: on a wizard. even less of a difference on a psychic.

      The biggest difference of the two? TW.
      BladedZero - Sanctuary
      "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

      -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
    • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
      edited September 2010
      /facepalm

      Why people keep talking about PvP or TW where -interval is not used as often not that it is not OP, because of the glitchy detection and lag in the game for auto attacks.

      You don't use normal attacks much in TW, not -interval attacks. If you don't have -interval you still don't use normal attacks, so -interval is not "balanced" in PvP it's simply not USED.

      So I ask why the hell have -interval in the first place... since not having it won't change TW much... it's purely a broken mechanic specifically made for breaking PvE???


      And sorry but if you say sutra is OP you are delusional. Sutra is often the only chance wizards get to kill someone who's charmed (besides crit on ultis). What do you want, wizards to not be able to kill anything but to pray for crits in a row?
    This discussion has been closed.

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