Why do the 2 Best tokens = 10m cause inflation?

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

That's talking about printing money with nothing to back it up, i.e. creating the total amount of money in the system, causing each unit of money to loose value. Are you saying that US has only been printing money to replace the ones that get damaged? So the amount of money in the US has been constant through out the years while goods have increased? I wasn't talking about what Japan did, which randomly printed money and caused massive inflation. Note my entire sentence, to match the goods produced, not just to have more money around to feel like they are more rich.

If you are such expert at economy, surely you know that increase in goods with constant money in a system means each item gets cheaper, i.e. deflation.

Wrong, there is ALWAYS money to back it up. The point of an economy is monetary circulation. Johny goes to the store & buys a TV, that money pays some of Bill & Daves salary (emplyees of the store) who then go out with the money and purchase some food. The food store uses that money to pay (through middle men) the farmers who milked the cows and plucked the eggs, and all the middle men & the farmer now have profit to go and spend. Farmer Joe decides to fix his barn, he calls Ted the contracter and pays them to paint it & fix the roof. This gives Ted some money as well as some money towards the Lumberjacks and paint manufacturers. Well Lumberjack Donny takes the money to reinvest in his business and hires Johny paying him.

That is an extremely closed circle economic example, but the point is, money circulates, and that is how people have the money to pay for increased goods.

Now there is a subtle amount of inflation desireable in a healthy economy, thats been forecasted at roughly 3-5% annually. This is measured in the GDP and gross market indexes (an index which tallies together a list of generally common goods & services & their prices to see an overall price increase annually, think of it as a NASDAQ for prices of goods and services). The increases we are and have been getting are much more similar to the economic boom of the 20s, which prices grew too fast & too rapidly creating fear & then in 1929 the stock market crashed creating the worst economic dpression in U.S. history. Guess whats happening now? Anyone not in the wealthiest class of people in PWI (cash shoppers generally but there's good merchanters too) are becoming very afraid to spend money because its harder to replace it for the high prices of goods. We have already entered stagflation and are nearing a similar depression. (And a note on the depression of the 30s, there were also still very wealthy individuals, its a misnomer that everyone was poor).

As long as people are willing to spend (thats the important part) there is always money for new goods. Its when people get fearful to spend, that the economy crumbles. And printing new money doesnt help that situation. The fix for a bad economy is encouraging spending, to get the cycle moving again, not printing new money. THIS is why during recessions, interest rates are lowered, to encourage people borrowing to invest & spend, and discourage people putting their money away to rot and earn interest. Then in periods of economic booms, interest rates are raised, to actually encourage a slow down. The slow down is needed to avoid a repeat of the 20s boom into the 30s crash.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The USA also creates money from nothing. In todays times it is done digitally through loans.

Exactly. They making much more money on daily base than just replace old money as some1 told it here?
But dollar is all world tradable so every country except it, that's why they can print still more and more from nothing. If china refused dollar and give away all dollars money which have, the inflation of dollar would be enormous. And all USA economy would be death in few days. Dollar would be nothing more, than just a toilet paper. All begun when they stopped to cover dollar by real gold.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The USA also creates money from nothing. In todays times it is done digitally through loans.

Yes, that's the primary way the Fed increases the U.S. money supply. But they do it in measured amounts in proportion to how much new goods have been produced. As Okeano said, it's done to keep the money supply growing at about the same rate as the net amount of goods in country increases. It's not done arbitrarily. (Well, at least that's how they used to do it. The last 4 years have been a pretty brutal deviation from that.)

Wish I'd paid more attention in econ class. It all seemed so bland and meaningless back then...

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But dollar is all world tradable so every country except it, that's why they can print still more and more from nothing. If china refused dollar and give away all here dollars money that have, the inflation of dollar would be enormous. And all USA economy would be death in few days. Dollar would be nothing more, than just a toilet paper. All begun when they stopped to cover dollar by real gold.

China holds less than $1 trillion of U.S. Treasury securities. The U.S. GDP is over $14 trillion/yr. Even Chinese imports to the U.S. in 2009 only amounted to less than $300 billion. That's only about 2% of the total U.S. GDP. China could disappear overnight and the U.S. economy would keep humming along. So talk about how much damage could do to the U.S. economy is greatly exaggerated.

And fixing your currency's value to gold is pretty stupid. There's only a fixed amount of gold in the world which increases very slowly. If you fix your currency to that, you get inevitable deflation because that fixed amount of currency has to pay for an ever-increasing amount of goods and services being produced. Basically, people could buy gold coins and live off of the increase in their value over time, without having to do any work (i.e. all the poor suckers who didn't own gold coins would be doing all the work).

The floating currency is no walk in the park either. It only works as long as the government doesn't abuse it by printing too much money.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Exactly. They making much more money on daily base than just replace old money as some1 told it here?
But dollar is all world tradable so every country except it, that's why they can print still more and more from nothing. If china refused dollar and give away all here dollars money that have, the inflation of dollar would be enormous. And all USA economy would be death in few days. Dollar would be nothing more, than just a toilet paper. All begun when they stopped to cover dollar by real gold.

Money from loans isnt new money. Because we also have a deficit created. Total money in the system is the sum of monetary assets + (-) deficit. Look at the Bank crash of 2009. granted its a domestic issue instead of global, but examine the premise behind it. Banks had too many loans, and people were not able to pay them back, suddenly there wasnt enough real money to cover all the people who had invested in the banks, so when people realized this they started withdrawing their investments. The values of the banks came crumbling down, and the goverment had to loan them money so that the citizens would literally not end up being robbed of the money they had invested. But where did that money come from? our tax dollars, money we paid into the system already. No money is created in loans, because it creates a deficit elsewhere and the money has to all come from somewhere. What keeps loans from crashing all the time is good faith, ppl generally have faith that when they put money in the bank, and the bank loans it out, that said banks will collect on the loans and the money will be there when the invester needs to withdraw it. When faith is lost, the saving and loans system comes crumbling down.

As was noted in the quoted text above, what is china stops accepting the dollar? Thats exactly what would happen if China and other countries lost faith in the U.S. dollar. And again the system would crumble on a global level. Loans are based on faith that there's real money to back it up, without that, its worthless.

Aquilez - Sanctuary

Genesis - Lost City wrote: »

Indeed it isn't difficult to understand, not sure why so many people think "tokens of best luck" is what is causing the gold price to inflate. Do you truely believe that if they remove the best luck tokens from the packs that the the gold price will drop?

Again, yes packs has caused gold price to go up, but to blame the best luck token as the primary source is ****. The big Cash shoppers aren't opening them for a chance to win 5 mil, because to them (and to be honest to me) that is pocket change.

But who really cares, the game is dead. TW was the only fun thing worth doing they took that away from us. Lets all just sit back and watch the train wreck.............. b:bye

yes, the high gold price isnt because of tokens of best luck only, but they removed the TW payment saying that the payment inserted too much in game each week, while the tokens insert much more than the TW payment, that is what we are saying

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Money from loans isnt new money. Because we also have a deficit created. Total money in the system is the sum of monetary assets + (-) deficit.

Yes it's new money. You're thinking of it in terms of the bank / borrower relationship. You're missing the step before. The Fed gives permission for a bank to make a loan, even though the bank doesn't have the money. So when the bank makes the loan, that money is created out of nothing.

To square the books, the bank needs to hold federal reserves at a certain ratio to the total amount of their outstanding loans (minus cash they have from depositors). At midnight every night, each bank has to own enough reserves to cover how many loans they have on their books. If they don't have enough, they face heavy fines.

The Fed increases the money supply by making more federal reserve notes available. The banks can then buy those, which gives them permission to make more loans, thus creating more money.

Edit: Full description since it's way too complicated to explain in a single forum post.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/MoneySupply.html

Okeano - Harshlands

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*Stuff*

What you said make sense for the world economy, but here's what's happened in the PW economy since the packs.

1 - Gold price went from 200k ( set by chest of coins) to ~400k due to the demand.
2 - Price of everything else dropped. This includes NPC items because more money in the system means the same price items are essentially cheaper.

I contribute the drop in price of everything from shards, MP charm (lack of demand), event gears (much more expensive at first) and etc to the rate they were injected to the system by the packs. Prices of most things are cheaper. Are you still calling this an inflation? Inflation - "The rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, and, subsequently, purchasing power is falling."

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Inflation - "The rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, and, subsequently, purchasing power is falling."

Most of the PWI "goods" are going down for another reason called "oversupply". There is both oversupply and inflation that cancel each other when talking about TT mats and things like that.

1.6k posts. I haven't leveled in the last... 150 posts?

Okeano - Harshlands

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Most of the PWI "goods" are going down for another reason called "oversupply". There is both oversupply and inflation that cancel each other when talking about TT mats and things like that.

1.6k posts. I haven't leveled in the last... 150 posts?

And that's what I said in my original post

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Very valueable goods such as gears or regular tokens also came from packs, which also appear out of nowhere. Aren't the coins from Best Luck balanced out by goods from other packs? Packs without Best Luck would just be tons of goods flooding the market without coins to match them.

The goods that are also injected into the system counteracts the coins injected.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

1 - Gold price went from 200k ( set by chest of coins) to ~400k due to the demand.
2 - Price of everything else dropped. This includes NPC items because more money in the system means the same price items are essentially cheaper.

I contribute the drop in price of everything from shards, MP charm (lack of demand), event gears (much more expensive at first) and etc to the rate they were injected to the system by the packs. Prices of most things are cheaper. Are you still calling this an inflation? Inflation - "The rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, and, subsequently, purchasing power is falling."

Bear in mind PWI is complicated by having two currencies, maybe even three if you count regular tokens. What's being discussed is the ratio of the exchange rate between two of those currencies (coin v. gold). It's not exactly inflation by the proper definition of the word (rise in the price of goods and services), but is the term that's used since it describes the concept everyone is trying to convey. If you wanted a proper term, it'd be that gold has steadily been becoming stronger than coin, which has more to do with how the gold economy (zen purchases, cash shop sales) relates to the coin economy (rest of the game, including pack prizes).

The RL ForEx markets (foreign exchange - they trade currencies) are real PITA. I had to delve into them while working in Canada and getting paid in CA$ which I had to convert to US$. I'm not even sure most of the people doing ForEx trading even fully understand what they're doing, much less what's actually going on. The vastly simplified version we have in this game is at least easier to understand (at least until regular luck tokens became a defacto third currency). But I won't even pretend to fully understand all the mechanics of it.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes it's new money. You're thinking of it in terms of the bank / borrower relationship. You're missing the step before. The Fed gives permission for a bank to make a loan, even though the bank doesn't have the money. So when the bank makes the loan, that money is created out of nothing.

Ok that is completely wrong. You're missing a HUGE step in there. the banks DO have the money for the loan. Your personal life saving which you have stored in the bank. Hence the whole faith relationship. When you give money to be held in a saving account, it doesnt sit there gathering dust. It's loaned out by the bank. If that bank makes too maney bad loans, there's a run on the bank, and the bank doesnt have the money to give to all the people who stored their money there, because it all went to loans which got defaulted on. I cited a primary example of the bank crash of 2009 in the U.S.. Banks are not able to give money out of thin air.

Likewise when the government deficit spends? They are not creating money out of thin air either. Do you know what a government treasury bond is? Many individuals have them, but even more larger so, many corporations have their moneys invested in them, as well as them being a part of many "safe but low yeild" investment portfolios. Those are you giving over your money "to buy a bond (another word for loaning the government money)" and that money is then used to deficit spend. That money is owed back to the people who've invested in those bonds. If people suddenly lose faith in the governments ability to pay those back, they quickly cash them in, and the government wouldnt be able to back it up and our domestic economy would crumble.

All money comes from somewhere, even in loans. Its cycled, from one source to another to another. Even a simple hint that money was being created out of thin air will cause most large incesters (who know how bad that is) to run and withdraw their cash for fear it wouldnt be there the next day, and creates catastrophe. For an economy to work, 'faith' that their money means something and can be backed up has to exist.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, that's the primary way the Fed increases the U.S. money supply. But they do it in measured amounts in proportion to how much new goods have been produced. As Okeano said, it's done to keep the money supply growing at about the same rate as the net amount of goods in country increases. It's not done arbitrarily. (Well, at least that's how they used to do it. The last 4 years have been a pretty brutal deviation from that.)

Wish I'd paid more attention in econ class. It all seemed so bland and meaningless back then...


China holds less than $1 trillion of U.S. Treasury securities. The U.S. GDP is over $14 trillion/yr. Even Chinese imports to the U.S. in 2009 only amounted to less than $300 billion. That's only about 2% of the total U.S. GDP. China could disappear overnight and the U.S. economy would keep humming along. So talk about how much damage could do to the U.S. economy is greatly exaggerated.

And fixing your currency's value to gold is pretty stupid. There's only a fixed amount of gold in the world which increases very slowly. If you fix your currency to that, you get inevitable deflation because that fixed amount of currency has to pay for an ever-increasing amount of goods and services being produced. Basically, people could buy gold coins and live off of the increase in their value over time, without having to do any work (i.e. all the poor suckers who didn't own gold coins would be doing all the work).

The floating currency is no walk in the park either. It only works as long as the government doesn't abuse it by printing too much money.

First.
"China's central bank said Friday that its reserves of foreign currency, by far the world's largest, rose to $2.4 trillion at the end of December, an increase of $126.56 billion since they were last reported in September. "
http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748703657604575004501953577566.html
second.
Fixing dollar on gold as it used to be was good idea. Because the dollar had fixed value regardless on inflation. Unfortunately in these times is going to back to gold era bad opinion, because in world is already too much worthless dollars don't covered by real products or economy. I think sooner or later USA will be forced do receive new money currency because dollar became worthless due to uncontrolled printing of new money.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok that is completely wrong. You're missing a HUGE step in there. the banks DO have the money for the loan. Your personal life saving which you have stored in the bank. Hence the whole faith relationship. When you give money to be held in a saving account, it doesnt sit there gathering dust. It's loaned out by the bank.

Read the link. The total amount of outstanding loans a bank can have can exceed the amount of deposits it holds. It just needs enough permission slips (federal reserve notes) from the Fed saying those loans are OK.

Okeano - Harshlands

You guys are getting of track b:cold.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Read the link. The total amount of outstanding loans a bank can have can exceed the amount of deposits it holds. It just needs enough permission slips (federal reserve notes) from the Fed saying those loans are OK.

Read a bit further. For that to occur, the Federal reserve has to increase its cash in reserve to back up those loans. In other words. It allows a bank to make a loan it doesnt have the money for, because the federal reserve DOES have the money for it. Those "permission slips" as you call it, are the Banks taking out a loan from the federal reserve, which has the money. So while not all of a banks loans are coming from your lifes savings, the portion that isnt, is coming from government money, which in turn also comes from the people through bonds & treasurey notes and taxes and quite alot of other sources.

Long point short, the money has to be there somewhere.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

First.
"China's central bank said Friday that its reserves of foreign currency, by far the world's largest, rose to $2.4 trillion at the end of December, an increase of $126.56 billion since they were last reported in September. "

That's the total China holds from all countries, not just the U.S. Here's how much each country holds in U.S. treasuries, from the horse's mouth (the U.S. Treasury):
http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

Fixing dollar on gold as it used to be was good idea. Because the dollar had fixed value regardless on inflation.

It was a good idea back then because people didn't know if the country might disappear and all its bank notes become worthless overnight. Being on the gold standard meant that if that happened, they could still trade those notes for the gold which was backing them.

It's not a good idea anymore because economies have become much larger than world gold supplies. Let's take an extreme case as an example. Say Bill and Ted and their spouses are the only citizens of a country which owns 2 ounces of gold. They print currency which is backed by those 2 ounces of gold, and use that currency to trade goods and services between each other.

Now fast-forward 200 years. Bill and Ted's families have grown to over 1000 people. But their currency is still backed up by those 2 ounces of gold. A grain of gold, which used to buy you a bottle of whiskey and a meal, will now buy you a house. People stop doing real work and all head to the mountains to go panning for gold. Because 200 years ago an afternoon's work panning for a grain of gold would feed you for a day. But now if you can pan a grain of gold, you will be set up for life.

The currency has to grow in proportion to the number of citizens and the amount of goods they produce. Tying the value of a currency to a fixed quantity of gold doesn't let you do that.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Read a bit further. For that to occur, the Federal reserve has to increase its cash in reserve to back up those loans.

The bank holds some of the reserves as newly-created cash. The Fed just prints more reserves when they feel like it.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's the total China holds from all countries, not just the U.S. Here's how much each country holds in U.S. treasuries, from the horse's mouth (the U.S. Treasury):
http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt


It was a good idea back then because people didn't know if the country might disappear and all its bank notes become worthless overnight. Being on the gold standard meant that if that happened, they could still trade those notes for the gold which was backing them.

We can argue about links what you posted.
The china has majority of their reserves in dollars as dollar is world tradable currency. All world-wide business is make with dollars same as payment for oil. They have no interest to hold foreign currency.
...and read this.
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/China-may-unlock-its-Dollar-reserves-to-buy-Gold-26452-3-1.html

Okeano - Harshlands

Or we can go back to talking about ToBL and the PW economy.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Or we can go back to talking about ToBL and the PW economy.

It was already told so many times. The PWI economy is going to hyperinflation blessed from dev. and GM.b:chuckle

Okeano - Harshlands

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It was already told so many times. The PWI economy is going to hyperinflation blessed from dev. and GM.b:chuckle

Are you saying that because that's what everyone else cries? Note my take on PW's "inflation" below:

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

... but here's what's happened in the PW economy since the packs.

1 - Gold price went from 200k ( set by chest of coins) to ~400k due to the demand.
2 - Price of everything else dropped. This includes NPC items because more money in the system means the same price items are essentially cheaper.

I contribute the drop in price of everything from shards, MP charm (lack of demand), event gears (much more expensive at first) and etc to the rate they were injected to the system by the packs. Prices of most things are cheaper. Are you still calling this an inflation? Inflation - "The rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, and, subsequently, purchasing power is falling."

Even if you look at the increase price of gold, it wasn't a steady increase, as it would if it's inflated by increased coins. Price of gold jumped directly to 200k with chest of coins, then jumped directly to 400k due to anni packs. These increases in price are due to artificial demands manufactured by the devs, forcing 1 gold to worth more by changing what 1 gold can buy. The price of gold has been steady around 400k when packs are in while dropped back when packs are out. They went up a bit lately due to the increased demand of packs from the Duke shouts, but is leveling back down to 400k. If price of gold is getting inflated by ToBL, their price would have been on a steady increase over the past year.

Devoted - Lost City

Wow some of you people are disgustingly clueless when it comes to the economy. So much in fact I don't even want to start explaining why you are wrong since I'm sure it will just go over your head.

Player to player trading doesn't add coin into the economy. If you think because you opened 10 packs and got 10 scroll of tombs you just added money to the economy you are ****.

kenlee

why do ppl compare RL with a game? the example with trading between ppls doesnt work in a game, its not a closed circuit. in rl you have limited amount of resources (this planet has no infinite resources), coins can come out from nowhere (coins drops, drops sold to npc) plus infinite amounts of resources (infinite spawns of the same mob). anyway even having infinite resource of coins those doesnt have any value till they come in relation with boutique items. then its demand and so on

now that doesnt make any much sense but how the owner of this kind of games makes money is also based on statistics and players flaws like laziness or addiction to game or false hopes for example

tw moneys, yes those are (were) free coins and could cover your expenses for most players. most players dont want to feel like they are working so now based on their laziness some will say that would better spend 4 bucks a week (or two weeks) for charm than waste good hours in a game just to get a minimum required charm, not to mention their time spent to have fun (pvp/chatting/whatever) and not farm (work). just an example of laziness plus discouraging players to get coins by farming (lower drops blah blah). the other players that wont buy (or cant afford to buy) with RL money will farm more coins and they are also the enjoyment puppets or the source of fun for CSers. so they are needed to maintain CSers fun long enough to spend constant money.

then it comes the other part with packs and tobl. its like playing at lottery, some ppl gain tobl, most people 'lose' coins by getting just tokens of luck. would you say that in RL a lottery ticked would create money from nothing? no, based on they sell statistics they sell enough wining tickets just not to lose money. in this game, either you win or lose (by statistics) with packs the owners are in a win-win situation because you buy packs and gives others the opportunity to buy more packs. RL money are needed to buy those even if its not you spending. the rich people in RL will probably get tons of coins, buy something from other players like TT/nirvana mats, some of those players will spend those monies on packs/charms and so on. either way is about buying with RL money and with money generated with RL money coz by statistics most players wont be motivated enough to farm coins when it feels like work.
there are plenty of aspects about this and idk how to explain but based on statistics this is how it works. most that qqing about quitting or things like that after new patches are also poor in game or rl. i heard saying from some players, ive spent to much monies in game to quit now or plenty of other reasons similar with this one

Michael_Dark - Lost City

kenlee wrote: »

some ppl gain tobl, most people 'lose' coins by getting just tokens of luck.

*sigh*

You still don't get it.

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

If you think because you opened 10 packs and got 10 scroll of tombs you just added money to the economy you are ****.

^^ this

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Oh lol
Let's say 1 scroll is 100 mill
There 11 people on the server
10 of them has 100 mill each, which mean the server has 1000 mill
You get 10 scroll
10 people want to buy scroll
You sell to them each for 100 mill
Each of them lost 100 mill
You get 1000 mill, the server still has 1000 mill

tweakz

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

*sigh*

You still don't get it.

QQ moar. It might actually drive your point. What is your point? b:chuckle

Michael_Dark - Lost City

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh lol
Let's say 1 scroll is 100 mill
There 11 people on the server
10 of them has 100 mill each, which mean the server has 1000 mill
You get 10 scroll
10 people want to buy scroll
You sell to them each for 100 mill
Each of them lost 100 mill
You get 1000 mill, the server still has 1000 mill

There are a number of us who have explained this countless times... they will never be able to comprehend this no matter how many times it's re-written or how it is worded. They just do not have the mental capacity to understand.

tweakz wrote: »

QQ moar. It might actually drive your point. What is your point? b:chuckle

*pat pat* Go find your twin brother Yulk and tell him if you're both good you'll get a nice desert and get to go to the movies. b:bye

Okeano - Harshlands

Now that the dumb ones are out of the way Michael, let's talk about my point.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

*pat pat* Go find your twin brother Yulk and tell him if you're both good you'll get a nice desert and get to go to the movies. b:bye

I thought that was your twin, moron, gtfo b:bye

Devoted - Lost City

kenlee wrote: »

then it comes the other part with packs and tobl. its like playing at lottery, some ppl gain tobl, most people 'lose' coins by getting just tokens of luck. would you say that in RL a lottery ticked would create money from nothing?

Okay let me explain this to you. When you buy a pack you are giving money to somebody else. No coin is lost and no coin is gained it is just transferred between players. When you open the pack you are creating coin out of nothing. Coins don't disappear when a pack is opened they only appear. If you open a pack and only get tokens you are adding 15 tokens worth of coin to the economy (trade the tokens for something NPCable for coin) this might be a very small increase of coin but it is an increase nonetheless. If you get a best luck from the pack you just added 5 million more coins into the economy. If best lucks are continually being injected into the economy with nothing to balance this out the amount of coins in the economy grows.

How do you think all this coin got into the game since packs were introduced? Think back to last september and how much 5 million seemed back then. It was a decent amount of money and could go to a lot of use. Now 5 million is the amount I make in a day. The 5 million I earn now seems hardly equivalent to the 5 million I had before packs. Why is that? What else could have possibly added coin into the economy besides packs? Back in the day people actually grinded and keyword: NPC'd their drops. Drops came from nothing and were sold to an NPC with unlimited coin supply. This added coins to the economy but repairs/auction fees and the other coin sinks kept the economy under control. Once BH and frost were added people stopped grinding so this removed something that brought coin into the economy. What could have possibly created such a dramatic rise in the amount of coin in the economy? TW has been ongoing since the start of the server and was a main contributor to the increase in coin but we never saw a massive increase until packs were added. Sherlock holmes thinks it's the best lucks.