5.0 APS Sin Or BM In Party... Which Do You Prefer, And Why?

TheDan - Sanctuary

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

bout the topic

it rly depends on wat grounds

PVE stuffs ill go w/ sin since a good sin that knws wat he was doing

will never take agro on a good tank

while BM got no skill to wipe off agro so his only choice is to stop dpsing

which mkes it SIN > BM b:victory



PVP stuffs gonna depend on whether World or TW


on World ill take sin anytime

coz w/ stealth they can be ur opener or target hunter

so again Sin > BM b:victory



on TW BM & Sins got diff roles

BM are used mainly to stun a large number of ppl and throw some Dragons

while Sins r usually designated Target Killer(healers & zhenners)

so here i say its Sin = BM b:surrender

The OP asks which class you would rather have in a squad, meaning one or the other. The Sin won't get BM buffs, and BM won't get Sin buffs since they're not in squad together. Average BMs can tank bosses without sin buffs in squad, I can't say much for an average Sin without BM buffs. Why would a BM even need to wipe off aggro? So the boss can reset and aggro the cleric and squad wipe?

BM buffs are way more useful than Sin Buffs. A squad can live without Sin Buffs, if Sin buffs were a necessity, Sins would have implemented at the start of the game, not an add on.

And in PvP/TW Sin being better? Troll much? You pretty much need BMs to assist you in every squad. BMs are much better support classes; the stuns, slows, the 9 second curse are AoE and they have the defense to take more hits instead of needing to keep running and stealthing. BMs are the better tanks, Sins are the better DD, which means pretty much nothing in TW when all the mages with +30 attack 1 shots you before you can melee.

Please enlighten me here, different roles? What is the role of a sin in TW? To melee single targets? Cause I'm pretty sure Archers / Mages already cover that job except long range. Better openers is not a valid reason, all a person needs to do is AD and the opener is negated.

I'm trying to picture myself as an LA BM with no BM buff and no marrows wearing that crappy rank 4 interval chest (my pictured Sin Build) trying to PvP/PvE. Yeah.... No thanks, not looking to die irl too.

Okeano - Harshlands

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is the role of a sin in TW?

To die. Getting killed by reflects off of your own attack while dodging aoes in an endless game of frogger. We f-ing fail in TW.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

To die. Getting killed by reflects off of your own attack while dodging aoes in an endless game of frogger. We f-ing fail in TW.

HA Veno with Demon Bramble hurts. b:surrender

Okeano - Harshlands

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

HA Veno with Demon Bramble hurts. b:surrender

Anything with Bramble buff hurts -_______-. When I Headhunt a Cleric, I take 2k damage... b:cry

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Between sin and BM, id choose BM hands down.
usually a 5.0 aps takes easy aggro. Pro 5.0 know how to survive when they take aggro and most of the time tank.

Sins ive seen so far are so super squishy, and if their not they still cant take enough hits to tank while constantly aggroing. (or they BARELY survive) A dead 5.0aps is worthless. If i wanted a glass cannon id say so.

JRRigoz - Dreamweaver

BM..for the following reasons:

1. The BM ISN'T entirely reliant on Critical hits for damage.

2. The Assassin class seems to have just attracted a bunch of newbies who just proclaim themselves badass for killing something..No Offense to those that can actually play the class

3. Referring to #2..They simply are cowards(again no offense towards pros)..they'll go into stealth when they see that they are in fact a mortal being...and becomes especially bothersome When It's just me and that sin...and a bunch of mobs.

4. The BM will actually give me some buffs that I can apply elsewhere. like the Physical defense buff. The Sin...just asks for my buffs...end of story

5. The BM doesn't ever go off in random directions and expect me to risk the lives of X squad mems just for him(ESPECIALLY in instances).

6.when the BM goes leroy there is a good chance that I can keep him/her alive because they usually have heaven's flame ready to keep aggro.

My experience with sins for the most part is not good at all...In faction yes...Out of faction is hell.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

SecretGem - Heavens Tear wrote: »

el o el..... your not supposed to kill ppl in TW ur a BM...... all your good for is stun and aoe pressure. Archers wizards and venos main classes that kill in TW(sins and psy's too)

Stupid aren't you? You have a level what BM and you know absolutely nothing about TW?

Read below you idiot. Tell me exactly what's wrong with my stun team tactics you nub:

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

On forward pushes, Red Sprint > Roar one group of people.... run to next > Bolt = more people unable to move = easy targets for DD team. Switch to axes > fissure > call targets > dragons > run to heavy, binding tower, etc... build chi if pk pots are on cooldown.

After I die, I can support our air DD/EP hunting team as I fly back to the front line, kill an ep, debuff veno or archer before I drop down and continue to push my stun team forward.

Do I actually need to tell you after I run in stun>bolt>fissure>dragons that I holy path out and rinse and repate? That if I need chi and my pk pots are on cooldown I find a heavy or binding tower or something else to build it? Come on, are you gonna get any more stupid on me? /facepalm

SecretGem - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In TW BM's have to use anti stun pot->roar->drop dragons if they have->fissure->highland cleave-> and holy path back and allow the other BM to run up and stun. That's how it should work.

Anti-stun pot? You're kidding right? For apo pots you either use 2 spark pots or immunity pots. And have you ever heard of Bolt of Tyreseus? That's like, one of the most amazing AoE skills a BM can use in war. Frezes enemies in place, reduces channeling time... and the BM isn't frozen if they have red sprint up when they use it. It's great to use because Roar does have a cooldown.

Of course you would know that because your main is a high level BM, but you're a freaking moron who doesn't have a clue.

Also:

Kitamura - Lost City wrote: »

In TW I'm the poor Cleric assigned to heal Michael_dark ****, and I can tell you that is rare to see any BM in any of the sides of the battle using only Axes, is long gone the time where BMs run + stun + run back, now they run + stun + kill with fists, doing AOE with axes is stupid nowadays, since they wont even tick the charms of 90% of ppl in TW that have 10k++ HP, hard to find robes with 2~4k HP where the Axe AOEs would be effective.

SecretGem, read Lynduras guide more because obviously you have no idea how to play a BM in a factor war. And ZOMG it's 9x. A 9x BM doesn't even make it into formation in my faction. Hyper oracle more pls. b:bye

kenlee wrote: »

i totally disagree and i dont like posting my enemies videos but this is the way to play a bm in tw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66e2eDdAMSE&fmt=22
tbh i think its the best bm ive ever seen in a tw so far and ive been on LC too

id like to see how you/him do that on a 40k hp barb btw

He's a decent BM, but tell me exactly what you see him doing wrong, over and over.

Faeble - Heavens Tear

EDIT: ew.. posted on wrong forum -_- too many windows up.

sorry for the necro
*facepalm*

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Way to go

Crit_Heal - Dreamweaver

Sins are to squishy for 5 aps

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Crit_Heal - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sins are to squishy for 5 aps

Tell that to Thon...who just tanked 3-3.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver

I just tanked 3-3 too

sin wtf! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEfvBDiVQCE

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Haha... epic necro but as an up and coming BM now seeing this thread for the first time, I found it to be an enjoyable and informative debate. b:victory

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Pro necro.

swgs

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Oh? Hardly. I guess you're not very experienced in TW.

I build chi faster. When it's time to defend the base, I can triple on a turtled barb and eat past a charm and through a cleric's heals.

On forward pushes, Red Sprint > Roar one group of people.... run to next > Bolt = more people unable to move = easy targets for DD team. Switch to axes > fissure > call targets > dragons > run to heavy, binding tower, etc... build chi if pk pots are on cooldown.

After I die, I can support our air DD/EP hunting team as I fly back to the front line, kill an ep, debuff veno or archer before I drop down and continue to push my stun team forward.

Sure, if I could afford to restat to full vit before war and restat for fists after I would, but I know how to use my axes and fists well, and I can easily work them into my stun team duties.

Then again I am 3.33/5.0 and have +11 claws. They're very useful in TW. More useful than my axes, which are only used for Dragons.

Glad there are BM still know axes are their primary weapon. I was in 3-3 few days ago, all 3 BMs use fist, they run to a group of mobs and start to attach a single target without even one aoe, it make me as a cleric crazy, if I do not heal they die, if I heal I die.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

swgs wrote: »

Glad there are BM still know axes are their primary weapon. I was in 3-3 few days ago, all 3 BMs use fist, they run to a group of mobs and start to attach a single target without even one aoe, it make me as a cleric crazy, if I do not heal they die, if I heal I die.

Their "primary weapon" is whatever path they choose to build around. Fist is the default choice these days to them being much better DPS on single targets.

Axes are not the only weapon they should use.

Haden - Dreamweaver

Here's the best answer, that everyone's looking for:

Everyone likes Blademasters because they have an AOE stun and Bell.

Everyone hates assassins because they're buffs dont effect everyone.

So in turn, people like BM's better than sins. b:chuckle

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

I'd take a BM over a Sin.

Let's see...

Not only are they able to do 5.0, but they can:

HF
AOE
Tank
Buff a Cleric, Veno, Mystic, Psy, and Archer

And best of all...

If things go to hell, they won't vanish on you. b:bye

SlayersSin - Heavens Tear

I'm an HA sin, i'm not even 5 aps. i got r8 daggers +10 and r9 ring so far, and i don't really have a problem tanking a lot of bosses. I have JOSD and vit stones sharded in the HA and DoTs in my top and cape. (this was my barbs gear xD) I still can steal agro from r8 archers and some fist bms even with my nerfed dmg and crit rate, and when i do , i don't die.

I considered restating to LA, but that would mean totally starting from scratch on his wrists, boots and pants.

I think an end game LA sin with proper refines and shards could do just as well if not better at tanking, increased dmg and crit means more hp returned from BP anyways. It really depends how much you spend on your gear and refines, and shards.

As for BM's, i love having them in squad, and i'm biased as a sin, i would rather a 5aps bm who hopefully uses HF and has bell, then another sin who can .... also give me BP. b:chuckle

TheDan - Sanctuary

Faeble - Heavens Tear wrote: »

EDIT: ew.. posted on wrong forum -_- too many windows up.

sorry for the necro
*facepalm*

You can delete your own posts by double tapping the edit lol..

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

SlayersSin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm an HA sin, i'm not even 5 aps. i got r8 daggers +10 and r9 ring so far, and i don't really have a problem tanking a lot of bosses. I have JOSD and vit stones sharded in the HA and DoTs in my top and cape. (this was my barbs gear xD) I still can steal agro from r8 archers and some fist bms even with my nerfed dmg and crit rate, and when i do , i don't die.

I considered restating to LA, but that would mean totally starting from scratch on his wrists, boots and pants.

I think an end game LA sin with proper refines and shards could do just as well if not better at tanking, increased dmg and crit means more hp returned from BP anyways. It really depends how much you spend on your gear and refines, and shards.

As for BM's, i love having them in squad, and i'm biased as a sin, i would rather a 5aps bm who hopefully uses HF and has bell, then another sin who can .... also give me BP. b:chuckle

I rather have both.

As great a skill as HF is, it's 10x better with a sin who can take full advantage it.

Blobbob - Sanctuary

umm id rather have neither... call me old fashion but i prefer a regular all weapon bm that uses more than just auto attack i always prefer skill over lazy auto attack and spark. keeps the game fun keeps it the way it was ment to be

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver

Depends on the sin or the bm.....

Graey_Rain - Harshlands

Both. If you can only have one it depends on the circumstance.
I'd go with a sin in most situations. More damage and I don't have to worry about them getting agro and dying because I should be holding agro off them unless they have +12 gear with lots of attack lvl shards. In which case I'm going to assume that the rest of their gear will be at least +10 and so, like me, they can tank just about anything in the game.

But tbh I'm very lazy, I probably wouldn't bother doing nirvana/none solo tt/anything without at least another 5 aps sin and one or two 5 aps BM's in my squad b:cute

And for world pvp a sin because 2 sins popping out of stealth on someone together and then restealthing and running away before they get ganked is just so much fun.
For TW a BM's always better. You need insane hp/pdef/defence lvls if you want to tw successfully with a sin. Otherwise you're just trading your life for clerics or suiciding with aoes on brambled people lol.

chaoticshelly

Closed for necro.