5.0 APS Sin Or BM In Party... Which Do You Prefer, And Why?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

actually its not the Stealth skill coz u wont be able to use it while engage on combat

Shadow Escape skill wipes off agro

and when u said its not working on TT/HH

i rly think it does

problem is alot of Sin just use it when they get attcked

so w/ their low HP & low def it rly looks like its not working

It doesn't work for TT bosses since you'd need to have a level 121 (?) sin to be able to trick level 150 bosses.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

lol wat??????????????????????????????????

My def team really loves 9 second dragons on catas every 30 seconds. Axe is only good after you roar and you basically only fissure then run back unless you have op gear and can tank 15k damage. If your main focus is killing catas then using fists to be able to have 2 sparks every 30 seconds is priority.

I thought he meant he builds chi faster than a sin, my mistake. :P

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

It doesn't work for TT bosses since you'd need to have a level 121 (?) sin to be able to trick level 150 bosses.

He's talking about resetting aggro, not going into stealth mode. I'm actually curious if it works.

Without refines or shards, any 5.0 aps user is squishy. Invite the one that got most chance of success for your party, be it Sin/Bm/Arcane barb

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He's talking about resetting aggro, not going into stealth mode. I'm actually curious if it works.

Without refines or shards, any 5.0 aps user is squishy. Invite the one that got most chance of success for your party, be it Sin/Bm/Arcane barb

Don't bash arcane barbs, those tank delta like nothing. b:chuckle

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He's talking about resetting aggro, not going into stealth mode. I'm actually curious if it works.

Without refines or shards, any 5.0 aps user is squishy. Invite the one that got most chance of success for your party, be it Sin/Bm/Arcane barb

As far as I'm aware the only class that can lose aggro if they unintenionally have it for some reason is a barb that can use roar to reset......


But why wouldn't a barb want aggro?

Oneji - Heavens Tear

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oneji: Yeah.....5.0 APS BM means the guy is wearing mainly HA. If he's got nice refines (+5 or higher) then his HP is way better then a sin.


So, that's my only point. The sin will die a **** load faster then a BM.

Um nope.Make a heavy armor sin with 5aps,(For example Clammier on HT) slap on some blood paint, and you have a very self sufficient tank b:dirty.

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the only class that can lose aggro if they unintenionally have it for some reason is a barb that can use roar to reset......


But why wouldn't a barb want aggro?

Look at it this way, Sin gets aggro, uses Shadow Escape to reset aggro back to barb. Would be pretty nice for the Sin, if he's a bit squishy and dont wanna play with his charm.

Maybe it's just the Stealth that does it, no idea, never tried it. If it works, would be a + for the Sin.

Then again, 5.0aps is bound to take some hits, and most likely end up tanking, if he's the only 5.0aps user.

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Um nope.Make a heavy armor sin with 5aps,(For example Clammier on HT) slap on some blood paint, and you have a very self sufficient tank b:dirty.

His dmg however is low considered evenly geared LA Sin's

EDIT: Evenly geared = same refines/money spent

Euphy - Dreamweaver

For me it deepens on the player. Both classes are excellent damage per second. It depends on the player, how much they farm/merchant/cashshop for refines/shards/skills, and again on the player. BMs can suck if they don't know how to move and where to stand. Sins fail when they randomly shadow escape and let their partner die rather than stand their ground.

Oneji - Heavens Tear

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

His dmg however is low considered evenly geared LA Sin's

EDIT: Evenly geared = same refines/money spent

I know, but im talking about survival strictly versus damage.

TriggerHappi - Lost City_1298963575

Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Um nope.Make a heavy armor sin with 5aps,(For example Clammier on HT) slap on some blood paint, and you have a very self sufficient tank b:dirty.

as u can see im not frm HT

but i dont think sin on HA can rly tank

maybe on lower lvls

but on 9x runs no way sin can tank it even w/ HA

HH99 HA gear needs 250 STR if u gonna use same lvl dags then u wont hve enough HP

if u choose to hve high HP i doubt ull get enough dmg to hold agro

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Look at it this way, Sin gets aggro, uses Shadow Escape to reset aggro back to barb. Would be pretty nice for the Sin, if he's a bit squishy and dont wanna play with his charm.

Maybe it's just the Stealth that does it, no idea, never tried it. If it works, would be a + for the Sin.

Then again, 5.0aps is bound to take some hits, and most likely end up tanking, if he's the only 5.0aps user.

a good sin will never wait to get attcked b4 he shadow escape

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

as u can see im not frm HT

but i dont think sin on HA can rly tank

maybe on lower lvls

but on 9x runs no way sin can tank it even w/ HA

HH99 HA gear needs 250 STR if u gonna use same lvl dags then u wont hve enough HP

if u choose to hve high HP i doubt ull get enough dmg to hold agro



a good sin will never wait to get attcked b4 he shadow escape

Sin can tank with HA 5.0aps, been proved many times over. Dmg however is what I'm curious about. HA definately lower the dmg output, but is it lower/higher than a similiar HA bm?

A good Sin your lvl would be able to tank what you need, unless TT's.

Oneji - Heavens Tear

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

as u can see im not frm HT

but i dont think sin on HA can rly tank

maybe on lower lvls

but on 9x runs no way sin can tank it even w/ HA

HH99 HA gear needs 250 STR if u gonna use same lvl dags then u wont hve enough HP

if u choose to hve high HP i doubt ull get enough dmg to hold agro



a good sin will never wait to get attcked b4 he shadow escape

Well interesting you say this. Dont forget there is something called refining and vit stones. Plus Clammier I believe has around 8k health unbuffed(dont quote me on this b:surrender). And he uses Decide claws not dags in most situations. So yes im very confident he can tank(shame he is not here to say yes or no thoughb:chuckle).

TriggerHappi - Lost City_1298963575

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sin can tank with HA 5.0aps, been proved many times over. Dmg however is what I'm curious about. HA definately lower the dmg output, but is it lower/higher than a similiar HA bm?

A good Sin your lvl would be able to tank what you need, unless TT's.

if u want to compare HA BM and HA SIN

well BM increase dmg frm STR

SIN needs DEX for dmg

going HA lowers ur DEX

and show me a sin same lvl as me w/ 5.0aps wearing HA

coz at the lvl im @ LA is enough to tank everything i need

so why go for HA

TriggerHappi - Lost City_1298963575

Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well interesting you say this. Dont forget there is something called refining and vit stones. Plus Clammier I believe has around 8k health unbuffed(dont quote me on this b:surrender). And he uses Decide claws not dags in most situations. So yes im very confident he can tank(shame he is not here to say yes or no thoughb:chuckle).

refines and stone can rly up HP maybe he rly has 8k hp unbuffed

but still i dont it enough to tank most of the bosses @ 9x -10x lvl range w/o WB buffs

coz if he got WB buffs why would u need a sin to tank stuffs b:surrender

or maybe ur server just dont hve that much WB

Oneji - Heavens Tear

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

if u want to compare HA BM and HA SIN

well BM increase dmg frm STR
Yes
SIN needs DEX for dmg
Yes but only if it is using dags/bow
going HA lowers ur DEX
Yes
and show me a sin same lvl as me w/ 5.0aps wearing HA
*facepalms* obviously he talking about high level sins(I would hope)
coz at the lvl im @ LA is enough to tank everything i need
Ok I think you should know he does not mean everything
so why go for HA
Nobody said go heavy armor, but if you have the money to +10 and get 5aps then there really is no big deal going HA

Just thought I would point it out.And as for tanking 9x bosses it has been done and proven as J.Balt said.

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

if u want to compare HA BM and HA SIN

well BM increase dmg frm STR

SIN needs DEX for dmg

going HA lowers ur DEX

and show me a sin same lvl as me w/ 5.0aps wearing HA

coz at the lvl im @ LA is enough to tank everything i need

so why go for HA

I'll go make one right away b:shutup

Your post gave me nothing so far.
This is for endgame / 5.0aps

I'm not telling you to go HA, I'm just stating that tanking as a HA Sin is very much doable.

I think we went enough off topic on this so far.

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

refines and stone can rly up HP maybe he rly has 8k hp unbuffed

but still i dont it enough to tank most of the bosses @ 9x -10x lvl range w/o WB buffs

coz if he got WB buffs why would u need a sin to tank stuffs b:surrender

or maybe ur server just dont hve that much WB

Show me a barb without 5.0aps holding aggro of anyone with 5.0aps
That's why he'd need to tank stuff

TriggerHappi - Lost City_1298963575

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Show me a barb without 5.0aps holding aggro of anyone with 5.0aps
That's why he'd need to tank stuff

thats why as a good sin u should be able to control dps

but too bad most sins just afk hit target thats why most WB cant hold agro

WB got agro skill

Sin got anti-agro skill

maybe that guy frm ur server able tank stuffs but i still dont see the point hvng HA sin

Riney - Raging Tide

Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I guess you did not factor in blood paint and the cleric healing b:surrender.Anyway demon 5aps sin with blood paint getting 500+ more health every hit should keep them alive, on top of that cleric is healing as well. But dont get me wrong I am not saying Assassin is better, I am just pointing out they should survive tanking a boss.

Have you never played a bm in your life? LOL 500+ more.

I get 300s with 2.5 APS and gorenox vanity. Id love to see a sin getting 800s without +12, and considering we're talking about alike gear, the bm would probably get around the same as well.

BM > Sin. And not because I am a bm, or I can beat just about every sin around me just cause I have a 15 second anti stun, but because sins are not tanks, and bms can be/are. (And when you talk about 5 attacks per second, you're talking about tanking.)

Grushenka - Lost City

Just depends on what the party is doing noooblet.

Legend - Raging Tide

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

BM unless the sin has super high refines and super good shards. Sins are just too damn squishy to tank a lot of things, they start attacking with 5.0 aps and then steal aggro, and then get killed because they thought a rank 4 chest and +2 refines would allow a LA class to tank.

Yo 4jun chest refined to +3 is 1337

MageyVail - Harshlands

/on topic,.
my 98 sin got banned from forums (boohoo) so i gotta post on this...
id rather have a bm with 5.0
sins are useless in tw.
bm's arent useless in tw.
ta da

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

Riney - Raging Tide wrote: »

BM > Sin. And not because I am a bm, or I can beat just about every sin around me just cause I have a 15 second anti stun, but because sins are not tanks, and bms can be/are. (And when you talk about 5 attacks per second, you're talking about tanking.)

All comes down to refine and shards. Sin's can tank just fine.

I'd still stick with a person I know play their character well, over a random.

Chose a Bm for the sole purpose of Tw? Not likely
A Sin for PvP/Pk 7day's a week or a Bm for Tw, which you might not get with the new updates.

Asperitas - Lost City

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All comes down to refine and shards. Sin's can tank just fine.

I'd still stick with a person I know play their character well, over a random.

Chose a Bm for the sole purpose of Tw? Not likely
A Sin for PvP/Pk 7day's a week or a Bm for Tw, which you might not get with the new updates.

Personally I'd rather have a BM for PVP. Maybe not PK, but PVP.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

thats why as a good sin u should be able to control dps

but too bad most sins just afk hit target thats why most WB cant hold agro

WB got agro skill

Sin got anti-agro skill

maybe that guy frm ur server able tank stuffs but i still dont see the point hvng HA sin

Um... no if you have 5.0 aps then 90% of the time you are going to be tanking


And seriously, what is this anti aggro skill you keep going on about?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I stopped reading right there.

lol, not only do you know nothing about mages, apparently you know even less about demon BMs, chi and TW. Mr lvl 9x 3.7k hp mage! My 87 veno has 4.7k hp unbuffed. b:chuckle

b:bye

Telarith - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Um... no if you have 5.0 aps then 90% of the time you are going to be tanking


And seriously, what is this anti aggro skill you keep going on about?

Most likely stealth.

truekossy

For those who were wondering about damage (and survivability) difference from just the base stats,

Endgame 5.0 HA sin:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9d1d27c6f5cbfd5d

Endgame 5.0 LA sin:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f7b5814585d1d959

Endgame 5.0 BM:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=644d3241b37c05a6


Now yes, I left points unused in the BM's calc. Why? Because some BMs choose to go ahead and go for pure damage even once they have 4.0 and can wield same-level axes while others will dump it into vit. Additionally, the calcs only feature level 10 buffs/mastery and are unsparked since tides don't have level 11 masteries and their sparks don't work correctly yet there.

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver

Neither. As long as they dont yell "LEROY JENKINS!" then you should be ok.