5.0 APS Sin Or BM In Party... Which Do You Prefer, And Why?

TangLung - Lost City

5.0 APS Sin Or BM In Party... Which Do You Prefer, And Why?

My logic would be the Sin, for the following reasons:
(again, these are PERSONAL considerations)

1. Higher dagger weapon damage, compared to fist/claw.

2. Naturally higher crit rate, due to being LA Dex-based
(i.e. no wasting points in STR for Axes / HA).

3. Insanely high crit rate and damage with Demon Spark.

4. Ability to rebuild chi at an alarming rate (i.e., "Perma-Spark").

5. Can Shadow Escape to elude aggro.

I am aware that BM's can also pretty much perma spark, but the
damage from a Sage / Demon spark does not hold up with the
crit offered by. Also, a BM will have a higher defence due to the HA.

But I've outlined 5 reasons why, in a run, I would prefer a 5.0 APS
Sin over a BM.

Any thoughts?

Kephras - Heavens Tear

Neither.

If there's a 5.0aps "DD" in squad, odds are I'm not the one tanking. And I like being the meat shield.

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear

Bm.


Only cause a 5.0 aps sin will die a hell of a lot faster then a 5.0 aps BM ^.^

Chillum - Dreamweaver

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Neither.

If there's a 5.0aps "DD" in squad, odds are I'm not the one tanking. And I like being the meat shield.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

With enough dps 5.0 sins don't need clerics since they can self heal. You still want some 5.0 BMs in addition for the HF or a 5.0 archer for Bloodvow/Tooth.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Depends on the refines and situation.


In TW, 5aps sins are useless. They unstealth, try to kill one person and get ganked by a half dozen others who just tab-targeted them. Maybe they are lucky and actually kill that other person. Usually they just die though.

In instances, world bosses, wherever... 5 aps sins die. A lot. Most of them don't have the HP or gear to tank many things for long, so when they take aggro, they usually don't last long enough for a cleric to switch to them. They often don't have the defenses to tank many bosses. Only the rare massive cash shopper Sin can.

Otherwise, they're the highest DPS char in the game. I'd still rather have my 5aps BM.

b:bye

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

BM unless the sin has super high refines and super good shards. Sins are just too damn squishy to tank a lot of things, they start attacking with 5.0 aps and then steal aggro, and then get killed because they thought a rank 4 chest and +2 refines would allow a LA class to tank.

kenlee

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Depends on the refines and situation.


In TW, 5aps sins are useless. They unstealth, try to kill one person and get ganked by a half dozen others who just tab-targeted them. Maybe they are lucky and actually kill that other person. Usually they just die though.

In instances, world bosses, wherever... 5 aps sins die. A lot. Most of them don't have the HP or gear to tank many things for long, so when they take aggro, they usually don't last long enough for a cleric to switch to them. They often don't have the defenses to tank many bosses. Only the rare massive cash shopper Sin can.

Otherwise, they're the highest DPS char in the game. I'd still rather have my 5aps BM.

b:bye

so is bm.. i mean fist bm

Oneji - Heavens Tear

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bm.


Only cause a 5.0 aps sin will die a hell of a lot faster then a 5.0 aps BM ^.^

I guess you did not factor in blood paint and the cleric healing b:surrender.Anyway demon 5aps sin with blood paint getting 500+ more health every hit should keep them alive, on top of that cleric is healing as well. But dont get me wrong I am not saying Assassin is better, I am just pointing out they should survive tanking a boss.

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear

Oneji: Yeah.....5.0 APS BM means the guy is wearing mainly HA. If he's got nice refines (+5 or higher) then his HP is way better then a sin.


So, that's my only point. The sin will die a **** load faster then a BM.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

kenlee wrote: »

so is bm.. i mean fist bm

and who the hell is this plain stupid only using 1 kind of weapon?

Tojop - Dreamweaver

I think it depends. Are we running FC? BM, hands down. In nirvana or TT? Probably the sin. In TW? tell the bm to shut up and equip his axes b:chuckle

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I guess you did not factor in blood paint and the cleric healing b:surrender.Anyway demon 5aps sin with blood paint getting 500+ more health every hit should keep them alive, on top of that cleric is healing as well. But dont get me wrong I am not saying Assassin is better, I am just pointing out they should survive tanking a boss.

500+ hp per hit with bloodpaint? On a TT boss? yea...... no.

TT3-3 bosses can hit me for 4k+ when I'm in humanoid, and that's with HA. Add in the fact that a sin will have way lower pdef and that 4k becomes 5.5k

Michael_Dark - Lost City

kenlee wrote: »

so is bm.. i mean fist bm

Oh? Hardly. I guess you're not very experienced in TW.

I build chi faster. When it's time to defend the base, I can triple on a turtled barb and eat past a charm and through a cleric's heals.

On forward pushes, Red Sprint > Roar one group of people.... run to next > Bolt = more people unable to move = easy targets for DD team. Switch to axes > fissure > call targets > dragons > run to heavy, binding tower, etc... build chi if pk pots are on cooldown.

After I die, I can support our air DD/EP hunting team as I fly back to the front line, kill an ep, debuff veno or archer before I drop down and continue to push my stun team forward.

Sure, if I could afford to restat to full vit before war and restat for fists after I would, but I know how to use my axes and fists well, and I can easily work them into my stun team duties.

Then again I am 3.33/5.0 and have +11 claws. They're very useful in TW. More useful than my axes, which are only used for Dragons.

Okeano - Harshlands

BM. (If I wasn't sin or BM)

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver

I would rather go with BM as well.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

I'll take the BM. Independent of other considerations i find they are usually more reliable and more able to deal with unexpected situations. Maybe it's just the type of players the class attracts or that most high aps BMs usually do carry a couple of more weapons...

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I build chi faster.

I stopped reading right there.

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

500+ hp per hit with bloodpaint? On a TT boss? yea...... no.

TT3-3 bosses can hit me for 4k+ when I'm in humanoid, and that's with HA. Add in the fact that a sin will have way lower pdef and that 4k becomes 5.5k

A 5.0 aps would have tt.99 ha ornaments. They would have the ability to (somewhat) make up for the loss of p.def.
And a 5.0 aps char would/should have refines +5 or higher, no matter what character.

I would pick a Sin for TT, Rib Strike does wonders, more dmg, hp leech due to Bloodpaint.

Other than tw I dont see why not squad with a Sin instead of a Bm, IF they know how to play their character that is.

Devoted - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I stopped reading right there.

lol wat??????????????????????????????????

My def team really loves 9 second dragons on catas every 30 seconds. Axe is only good after you roar and you basically only fissure then run back unless you have op gear and can tank 15k damage. If your main focus is killing catas then using fists to be able to have 2 sparks every 30 seconds is priority.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Other than tw I dont see why not squad with a Sin instead of a Bm, IF they know how to play their character that is.

I got daggers, I pwn everything. Sounds familiar?

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I got daggers, I pwn everything. Sounds familiar?

Sounds just as familiar as a Bm with fist to me b:bye

TriggerHappi - Lost City_1298963575

bout the topic

it rly depends on wat grounds

PVE stuffs ill go w/ sin since a good sin that knws wat he was doing

will never take agro on a good tank

while BM got no skill to wipe off agro so his only choice is to stop dpsing

which mkes it SIN > BM b:victory



PVP stuffs gonna depend on whether World or TW


on World ill take sin anytime

coz w/ stealth they can be ur opener or target hunter

so again Sin > BM b:victory



on TW BM & Sins got diff roles

BM are used mainly to stun a large number of ppl and throw some Dragons

while Sins r usually designated Target Killer(healers & zhenners)

so here i say its Sin = BM b:surrender

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sounds just as familiar as a Bm with fist to me b:bye

But still less familiar than barbs "lure plz" when there are more than one mob on the way? Thought so. b:chuckle

Dead serious here. It's really THAT bad on lower levels.

TriggerHappi - Lost City wrote: »

on TW BM & Sins got diff roles

BM are used mainly to stun a large number of ppl and throw some Dragons

while Sins r usually designated Target Killer(healers & zhenners)

so here i say its Sin = BM b:surrender

TW without sins = small difference

TW without BMs = don't make me laugh

Both classes are useful, but still BM > sin in TW.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

while BM got no skill to wipe off agro so his only choice is to stop dpsing

Sins have a skill that makes the lose aggro?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sins have a skill that makes the lose aggro?

Called stealth. Doesn't work in TT though.

J_Balt - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

But still less familiar than barbs "lure plz" when there are more than one mob on the way? Thought so. b:chuckle

Dead serious here. It's really THAT bad on lower levels.

Where did that come from?

Listen cupcake, cuz I picked another character than what you're playing, dont post insults.
You're just proving my point.

This is bout 5.0aps characters, not lower lvl's

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Where did that come from?

Listen cupcake, cuz I picked another character than what you're playing, dont post insults.
You're just proving my point.

This is bout 5.0aps characters, not lower lvl's

I think we are pretty even here:

J_Balt - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sounds just as familiar as a Bm with fist to me b:bye

I didn't insult your class at first, then you insulted mine. As if that matters though.

Russiee - Raging Tide

TangLung - Lost City wrote: »

3. Insanely high crit rate and damage with Demon Spark.

4. Ability to rebuild chi at an alarming rate (i.e., "Perma-Spark").

5. Can Shadow Escape to elude aggro.
?

I don't see why a sin with 5.0 would need to use Inner Harmony fighting bosses. So they would be building chi at the same rate.

As for Shadow Escape. "I am sin, I Shadow Escape on a boss, Boss attacks cleric and squad wipes. Lolol im pro fish".

TriggerHappi - Lost City_1298963575

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

TW without sins = small difference

TW without BMs = don't make me laugh

Both classes are useful, but still BM > sin in TW.

maybe r u right

but i guess its bout how ur guild plays as a guild on TW

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Called stealth. Doesn't work in TT though.

actually its not the Stealth skill coz u wont be able to use it while engage on combat

Shadow Escape skill wipes off agro

and when u said its not working on TT/HH

i rly think it does

problem is alot of Sin just use it when they get attcked

so w/ their low HP & low def it rly looks like its not working

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Called stealth. Doesn't work in TT though.

All important bosses are level ?