Iron Hammers

2

Comments

  • _Pale - Sanctuary
    _Pale - Sanctuary Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    actually...
    inflation by getting more coins in game would make the game more of a cashshopper heaven. It would make the rewards for questing and grinding go down even more.
    So I think I would say no to it.

    At this time you can still make some coins to buy something if you put in the time ( lots and lots of time). If the value of coins goes down further, it wil be harder to get something for your coins and you'll have to grind even longer to make enough to buy something. For those that made some coins grinding already, the value of their work goes down in an instant the moment this is implemented.
    Lots of crying will follow...
    I'm not there to make you survive in PWI, that's your job
    ** expected fail squad: express rule of thumb "you die by stupidity, you go to town" **
    ~Sanctuary~Cleric/Archer/Veno~Audeamus/Enelysion
  • Hazumu - Dreamweaver
    Hazumu - Dreamweaver Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Actually, having the AH gold price drop would INCREASE the value of coin and would thus recquire more zhen charging to afford all those oracles and hypers. In short, it would make it more of a gamers, than cash shoppers game. And no, that's not mutually exclusive with PWE getting more income, quite the opposite. Cash shoppers have to charge more = increased income.

    And let's be realistic here. The amount of coin in world HAS to rise. otherwise the circulation of coins would steadily grind to a halt and that would also mean the end of income for PWI.
  • _Pale - Sanctuary
    _Pale - Sanctuary Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Actually, having the AH gold price drop would INCREASE the value of coin and would thus recquire more zhen charging to afford all those oracles and hypers. In short, it would make it more of a gamers, than cash shoppers game. And no, that's not mutually exclusive with PWE getting more income, quite the opposite. Cash shoppers have to charge more = increased income.

    And let's be realistic here. The amount of coin in world HAS to rise. otherwise the circulation of coins would steadily grind to a halt and that would also mean the end of income for PWI.

    Not that sure that gold price will drop. At the most it will go down to 300 coins temporarily if hammers were sold for 900 k or 3 gold, then it would rise again due to inflation. This is in case there are no packs, which are still in game.
    I'm not there to make you survive in PWI, that's your job
    ** expected fail squad: express rule of thumb "you die by stupidity, you go to town" **
    ~Sanctuary~Cleric/Archer/Veno~Audeamus/Enelysion
  • BarbLord - Raging Tide
    BarbLord - Raging Tide Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    People who agree with this idea fail at economics horribly

    Sure you gain coin by it but the server only gets worse from the inflation you caused

    Those who say packs keep gold at 200k+ are wrong to

    Chest of coin keep gold at at 200k+
    Packs keep gold at 400k+(this is probally different on other servers but its merely an example)
    These 2 cannot stack together making it 600k as it are minimum prices
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Put hammers at an NPC for exactly 1 mil coins. That way, anyone who actually buys to pop a chest, other then being an idiot, is sinking as much coin as they are adding to the economy, for a net of 0. But people can still pop their supply stashes for a reasonable rate, with the extra added benefit of slight coin sink, rather then buying gold for hammers which is just a coin circulation and not a sink.

    Maybe, Maybe i could be talked into a sale price of 999k coins. Even at 1k profit per chest of coins, at 100,000 boxes (guestimate) is 100 mil. Which is 1/5th of what gets added weekly by TW, and a teeny tiny ffraction of what gets added weekly by bank notes.
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Put hammers at an NPC for exactly 1 mil coins. That way, anyone who actually buys to pop a chest, other then being an idiot, is sinking as much coin as they are adding to the economy, for a net of 0. But people can still pop their supply stashes for a reasonable rate, with the extra added benefit of slight coin sink, rather then buying gold for hammers which is just a coin circulation and not a sink.

    seconded. or, if we want to be really conservative and careful, make it 1.05 mil coin/hammer or somesuch, just to make sure it stays a coin sink.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • KilledDream - Sanctuary
    KilledDream - Sanctuary Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    agree agreeb:victory
  • Hazumu - Dreamweaver
    Hazumu - Dreamweaver Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    @Pale:

    The Gold price doesn't seem to reflect on the amount of coin ingame. So, if the packs were removed and hammers got sold for approximately 1 mil, the gold price would drop to 200k and would also stay there unless packs were brought back in again.

    Making hammers buyable through a merchant for 1 mil is just a brilliant idea.
  • Fuuton - Heavens Tear
    Fuuton - Heavens Tear Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    In that case why don't they make an hammer that opens the supply stash only? b:shy
  • MistaBwanden - Sanctuary
    MistaBwanden - Sanctuary Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I hate getting chests in FCC/RB
    x.x
    Some NEAT reward that is.
  • __Akantos__ - Sanctuary
    __Akantos__ - Sanctuary Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Fuuton - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    In that case why don't they make an hammer that opens the supply stash only? b:shy

    The whole point of this is to make the SS and coin chest worth opening.
    Opening the SS would act as a coin sink and opening the coin chest would act as an inflow of coins. If they make seperate hammers you lose the chance of having both a sink and an inflow with one object.
  • __Akantos__ - Sanctuary
    __Akantos__ - Sanctuary Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ~~~bump~~~
  • DrSheets - Sanctuary
    DrSheets - Sanctuary Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Um yeah,, good idea but prolly not going to happen.. tho dropping it to 2-3 gold might be nice at the least

    !~ Da Sheets, CPA
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I haven't read the whole thread, so this may have already been stated....This is a terrible idea. There are SO many chests of coins out there, people will be literally buying 1m for 800k. Do you know what happens when you pump a whole **** ton of coin into the economy? Ugh. PLEASE do not implement this b:cry
  • __Akantos__ - Sanctuary
    __Akantos__ - Sanctuary Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I haven't read the whole thread, so this may have already been stated....This is a terrible idea. There are SO many chests of coins out there, people will be literally buying 1m for 800k. Do you know what happens when you pump a whole **** ton of coin into the economy? Ugh. PLEASE do not implement this b:cry

    if each chest gives 100k into the economy, and to open suply stash is 900k, me personaly would need 45 chest of coins to break even after i finaly get to open my suply stash. With cheaper hammers, more people would open ss and it would most probably break even, if not be a small sink in the economy.

    This thread is about being awarded what you deserve and earnt after an instance such as fcc or the cube.
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    __Akantos__ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    if each chest gives 100k into the economy, and to open suply stash is 900k, me personaly would need 45 chest of coins to break even after i finaly get to open my suply stash. With cheaper hammers, more people would open ss and it would most probably break even, if not be a small sink in the economy.

    This thread is about being awarded what you deserve and earnt after an instance such as fcc or the cube.

    No. You buy a hammer for 900k, and you open your chest of coins and get 1m. You don't need 45 chest of coins to break even, you profit after your first one. Do you know how many thousands of chests of coins are sitting in people's inventories on every server? I personally have some 380, just from doing cube and FC.

    At 100k a pop, that's 38m that I would get out of nothing. Others have many more. The price for gold would immediately go well above 500k, and prices for everything else would very quickly follow.

    Now, if your idea was to have the hammer for sale and also remove the chest of coin, or at least somehow change its reward so it didn't pump massive amounts of coin into the game, I might get on board with that.

    I'm sure I'm not the first to say it, but I'll repeat it here anyways: Any change implemented that would give everyone a reason to simultaneously open their chests of coins would break this game beyond repair. If you disagree with that sentiment, I would love to hear why.

    Edit: I just read the thread, and it looks like some people are horribly misguided. I'll give you one more tidbit to think about....If everyone is a billionaire, no one is rich. Seriously. Don't do this.
  • Shadowfire - Dreamweaver
    Shadowfire - Dreamweaver Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Voted no, as it's just a bad idea.

    If it was at 1mil for a hammer, I'd agree to that. But not everyone even earns the chest of coins, I sold plenty for 10-15kish in shop, seen some people buying them, and so on. Also, as others said, drastically increasing the amount of coins in game is a bad idea.

    There are not enough coin sinks in the game for this. Even learning skills isn't much of a coin sink, as it's a 1 time cost. An annoying one, but survivable. Skill books bought from other players cost much more than learning the skill. Demon quickshot/sage black ice dragon/demon heaven's flame/sage and demon revive/etc all cost a lot of coins from other players, but at most 2.5million to learn from the NPC once you have the book. The other coin sinks also don't do much. Many people quit doing cs at higher levels, unless they want to lvl a genie/themselves. I haven't done CS since i hit 100 except when i needed spirit to learn skills.
  • anwynd
    anwynd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    why not make the chest reward rep instead of coin
    Collector of pet eggs, armor, weapons, fashion, and mountsb:chuckle
  • Shadowfire - Dreamweaver
    Shadowfire - Dreamweaver Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    anwynd wrote: »
    why not make the chest reward rep instead of coin

    I've seen this idea tossed around before, and this is actually an idea I like. The amount of rep would need to be enough for the chest to be worth opening for 800-900k, or whatever price was agreed on by the devs. Although rewarding rep, depending on the amount, could also allow slightly cheaper hammers. A name change would be good too, so as to avoid another "Sack of Observation" from bh100 that now gives Ultimate Substance.
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No. You buy a hammer for 900k, and you open your chest of coins and get 1m. You don't need 45 chest of coins to break even, you profit after your first one. Do you know how many thousands of chests of coins are sitting in people's inventories on every server? I personally have some 380, just from doing cube and FC.

    At 100k a pop, that's 38m that I would get out of nothing. Others have many more. The price for gold would immediately go well above 500k, and prices for everything else would very quickly follow.

    Now, if your idea was to have the hammer for sale and also remove the chest of coin, or at least somehow change its reward so it didn't pump massive amounts of coin into the game, I might get on board with that.

    I'm sure I'm not the first to say it, but I'll repeat it here anyways: Any change implemented that would give everyone a reason to simultaneously open their chests of coins would break this game beyond repair. If you disagree with that sentiment, I would love to hear why.

    Edit: I just read the thread, and it looks like some people are horribly misguided. I'll give you one more tidbit to think about....If everyone is a billionaire, no one is rich. Seriously. Don't do this.

    Hush topjop I have over 1k of those chests since I have been saving since the old days in gamma... GIMME 800K HAMMERS PLEASE b:thanks
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    anwynd wrote: »
    why not make the chest reward rep instead of coin

    I've recommended this very thing. Change it to "Hero's Chest" or something like that, and it gives you a random amount of rep, 10-50.
  • Ashivas - Dreamweaver
    Ashivas - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,293 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Umm... Here's a better idea. Get rid of it entirely. The entire concept of the chest doesn't make any sense. Tell me the last time someone actually bought a PIH to open a chest of coins? If you can find someone, slap them for me. You'd be better off Buying 5 gold, and trading it in AH for like 1.5 mil.

    Seen a hammer selling for 1.7 mil yesterday. Thought to myself... "If someone's going to buy that to open a chest of coins... I'm going to cry."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Ashura Tyrant you foul mouthed little boy! I must keel yew nao =3
  • __Akantos__ - Sanctuary
    __Akantos__ - Sanctuary Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No. You buy a hammer for 900k, and you open your chest of coins and get 1m. You don't need 45 chest of coins to break even, you profit after your first one. Do you know how many thousands of chests of coins are sitting in people's inventories on every server? I personally have some 380, just from doing cube and FC.

    At 100k a pop, that's 38m that I would get out of nothing. Others have many more. The price for gold would immediately go well above 500k, and prices for everything else would very quickly follow.

    Now, if your idea was to have the hammer for sale and also remove the chest of coin, or at least somehow change its reward so it didn't pump massive amounts of coin into the game, I might get on board with that.

    I'm sure I'm not the first to say it, but I'll repeat it here anyways: Any change implemented that would give everyone a reason to simultaneously open their chests of coins would break this game beyond repair. If you disagree with that sentiment, I would love to hear why.

    Edit: I just read the thread, and it looks like some people are horribly misguided. I'll give you one more tidbit to think about....If everyone is a billionaire, no one is rich. Seriously. Don't do this.

    Please read what I said carfuly before you dismiss it.
    45 Chests, with 100k from each is 4.5m.
    I need 5 hammers to open, which would cost, 4.5m.
    4.5m-4.5m=0 b:shocked

    And just to point out, this is about making the suply stash affordable, as well as people recieving a reward they earnt, not about ruining the economy.
  • __Akantos__ - Sanctuary
    __Akantos__ - Sanctuary Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Also could the 15%-20% of people who dont want people to recieve a reward earnt after an hours (for example) fcc run, or to get items from the suply stash for less than 1.5m, please refrain from calling everyone else (80%ish) stupid/dumb/idiots? This is merly a sugestion and everyone has a right to say what they want without someone else insulting that oppinion and belittling them.
  • Amencat - Sanctuary
    Amencat - Sanctuary Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    To Develop.: DO it NOW!
    Some Rules each PWI Gamer should know
    1. Dont break this rules & no matter what: DONT TRUST ANYONE!
    2. Dont pay wine or heads fee (like to get kicked after that?) b:chuckle
    3. Dont borrow items (since when return gms scammed stuff?) b:embarrass
    4. Dont use your password in faction-forums (like hacks?) b:fatb
    5. Dont give your mats to the tt-banker (obvious, not?) b:beg
    6. Dont wait for help, or heals, or any other miracles,... (for more examples just play pwi and you will hate the whole humanity) b:bye
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    __Akantos__ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Please read what I said carfuly before you dismiss it.
    45 Chests, with 100k from each is 4.5m.
    I need 5 hammers to open, which would cost, 4.5m.
    4.5m-4.5m=0 b:shocked

    I'm going to do my best to explain this without flaming. You seem to be very caught up on using the hammers to make it worth opening supply stash at level 80. The thing is, you get a reward that is equivalent to the level 80 supply stash as a daily quest at level 100.

    30 mirages will sell for about 400k total. The Christmas Blessing would drop in price as they become much more common, but we'll call it 500k just to be fair. That's 900k coins you're getting out of your supply stash, which cost you 900km to open. However, as more and more people break even by openning their stashes, the Christmas Blessings will severely drop in price, and mirages will bottom out even more.

    But that's not all. All of those stockpiles of chests will flood the market with so much coin that.....I've already explained that. I don't know why half the server suddenly becoming billionaires out of nowhere doesn't scare the bejeesus out of you. Take an econ course or something.

    End result: supply stash remains irrelevant, coins become worthless. People will stop selling gold for coin because of the insane inflation. People will start trading items straight up for other items instead of using coins as an intermediary. (There's a word for that type of economy, someone who's taken an econ course fill me in)

    Edit: What Akantos said in his last post is spot on. Simply voting "No" and flaming everyone who voted "Yes" as idiots isn't really what this thread is for. Save that for the lunch table, kids.
  • ChishioToxic - Dreamweaver
    ChishioToxic - Dreamweaver Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    I'm no expert, but if doing what you're suggesting will cause millions/billions of coins to be poured into the game, then that'll mess with the in-game economy. Item prices would skyrocket just to balance everything out, and that wouldn't be fair to new players and people who don't even have these Chests of Coins to begin with!

    All I know is, when it comes my time to get an Iron Hammer, if I can't afford to just buy a cash card, I'll do Survey of the Day until I work up enough to pay for it. I only did a few of those and I built up enough silver to have a few Gold.
  • ChishioToxic - Dreamweaver
    ChishioToxic - Dreamweaver Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But that's not all. All of those stockpiles of chests will flood the market with so much coin that.....I've already explained that. I don't know why half the server suddenly becoming billionaires out of nowhere doesn't scare the bejeesus out of you. Take an econ course or something.

    Heck, I haven't even taken Economics yet (taking it next year, required class), and I already know the economy would go to hell. I pretty much already said in my post that the dev's/GMs would have to balance it out by making item prices skyrocket, but that would kill new players and people who don't have the chests.

    I don't really see what's so hard to understand about this, but I suppose the people voting yes are just blinded by greed, and in my opinion, for the good of the world, Greed should not be blind.
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    ChishioToxic - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I don't really see what's so hard to understand about this, but I suppose the people voting yes are just blinded by greed, and in my opinion, for the good of the world, Greed should not be blind.

    This. I'm greedy as hell, but getting stockpiles of money won't do me any good if everyone else has them too. A whole lot of people have voted "Yes" in this thread, and I would really like to hear some of their explanations or responses to what I've said.
  • Hazumu - Dreamweaver
    Hazumu - Dreamweaver Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Being a millionare isn't an uncommon thing in this game, now is it? Yet.... has it affected the prices of lower lvl gear? I don't see that being so... does it affect high lvl gear? Actually... no.

    You see, ingame economics work very differently to real world economics. Majority of prices ingame are actually bound to gold price, not to how much coin there's in game at any given moment. How is this so?

    Okay, let's twist it by the wire. A person buys zhen, which turns into gold. Now, gold has a fairly steady price that goes up and down a little constantly and even more with the packs going in and out. It's the packs right now that set the prices on most items because you get tokens out of them and thus the game is overflowing with tokens. Most prices are measured by how many tokens you'd need to make those items, which in turn is bound to the current price of the tokens, which in turn is bound to the current price of packs, which in turn is bound to the current price of.... zhen. In game coin has nothing to do with that chain.

    Aside that, the ingame economics is a flow that has to grow larger anyway. Otherwise everyone would actually run out of coins to buy anything since afterall, the higher lvl you become, the higher the maintenance and there are more and more higher lvls out there every day. So if ingame coin amount didn't rise, it'd simply be disasterous.
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