Barb Issues

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Go play "you can`t take aggro" with BMs whom got lunar claws and say that with a straight face, ijs. Also those lunar bows +10 are nightmare, with demon spark. Haven`t been in squads with sins lately but what I learned at lower levels, those are even worse than archers with whole aggro thing... I can hold lvl "?" bosses, though it`s not too easy, normal once are kinda pointless to even try, if there is any of mentioned above, with lunar wep.

Don't forget about highly refined (+10 and above) Rank 8 weapons.

Loricus - Harshlands

Very interesting, everyone here has a point

Very very interesting....

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

@ RoidAbuse
Indeed I don't consider bm as a DD class, even fists. If they need to spend I don't know how much to get interval gear to do something any wizzie, or other pure DD, with a decent TT or even 3* can. I'm tempted to say bm is somewhat between tank and DD, but that would be to simplistic. BM is a very versatile class with a lot depending on build and weapon path(s).

@ XylolyX
You're right on the chi-builder effect. I was thinking of some bhs I did on my alts where the barbs ask to wait because roar is on cooldown. Some seem to use it as a main aggro tool, while I always just saw it as an emergency skill.

@ Both
Indeed I think there is nothing wrong with our aggro skills. If they make it so strong that nobody can get aggro of the barb, where would be the fun. They could in that case just as well give us a buff, or a continuous skill (somekind of "aggro ball"), that makes all mobs in 20m range attack barb, and only him. That way you can just attack boss and go grab some coffee, everyone puts in a macro or continuous skill, and meet in 15min. I don't know for others, but that would make things to easy imo. At the moment, with sage fleshream, I hold aggro to pretty much anyone. It's only those with massive refines, or those who really do on purpose to steal aggro to proove how bad-**** they are that give "problems". I got a gold fcc axe that's just +3, I usually fleshream > devour > fleshream > alacrity (yes can keep chi up since fr and devour are sage) and ppl I frequently squad with tell me they don't really have to hold back but just give me 2 fr before attacking (none of them have +8 or higher lunar weap though). So yeah, I really think barbs aggro skills are good enough. No need to change it for those few idiots I don't like to squad with anyway. Just my opion.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ RoidAbuse
Indeed I don't consider bm as a DD class, even fists. If they need to spend I don't know how much to get interval gear to do something any wizzie, or other pure DD, with a decent TT or even 3* can. I'm tempted to say bm is somewhat between tank and DD, but that would be to simplistic. BM is a very versatile class with a lot depending on build and weapon path(s).

Do you honestly think a Wiz without crazy refines can hold a lick against a fist bm in term of DD? Do you know why people love taking 5 aps fist/claw classes to Nirvana and not Wizards? Take a guess. I can hold argo in human form on "?" bosses in TT from Archers with +10 bow but I can't get any argo in Nirvana against a 5 aps +5 lunar fist bm.

Cybetron - Harshlands

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you honestly think a Wiz without crazy refines can hold a lick against a fist bm in term of DD? Do you know why people love taking 5 aps fist/claw classes to Nirvana and not Wizards? Take a guess. I can hold argo in human form on "?" bosses in TT from Archers with +10 bow but I can't get any argo in Nirvana against a 5 aps +5 lunar fist bm.

^ This +10

@Tawarwaith: just because a fist BM can steal and keep aggro from you thereby resulting in a quick death of the boss doesn't really make them qualify as an "idiot". Survivability of barbs comes into picture till before endgame. At endgame most of the BMs go fists (with decent interval) + decent HP + boss does less p dmg to them + clerics super heal + BM keeps aggro just by the DPS that they inflict = BM as good a tank (if not better).

Can't believe that the same discussion has been going on in almost every other thread. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that taking and keeping aggro isn't counter-productive. Bottom line: if a BM wants to tank, let him.

/rant

PS: replace fist BM with fist BM/Barb b:laugh

Danikovich - Heavens Tear

Cybetron - Harshlands wrote: »

^ This +10

@Tawarwaith: just because a fist BM can steal and keep aggro from you thereby resulting in a quick death of the boss doesn't really make them qualify as an "idiot". Survivability of barbs comes into picture till before endgame. At endgame most of the BMs go fists (with decent interval) + decent HP + boss does less p dmg to them + clerics super heal + BM keeps aggro just by the DPS that they inflict = BM as good a tank (if not better).

Can't believe that the same discussion has been going on in almost every other thread. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that taking and keeping aggro isn't counter-productive. Bottom line: if a BM wants to tank, let him.

/rant

PS: replace fist BM with fist BM/Barb b:laugh

But when I created this character more than a year ago I was promised a tank, or should I say, THE TANK. Now I'm not THE TANK. In fact, I'm not even sure if I'm too wanted, my damage is low and a Fist BM is better in almost every shape/form for tanking. I still can be a good support by Flesh reaming strays, cancelling magics and buffing, but I was promised a tank not support.

meh..

Cybetron - Harshlands

I hear you brother and i agree with you, completely.. I took up my main as a barb just for that reason. I wanted to be the tank, someone who's leading the squads. But that's how the things are turning out to be. I know that almost all the tank/axe barbs have the same concerns (if not rants) but that's just how the game is turning out to be. I am just saying that we can't really help ourselves by going on and on about people taking aggro from us and throwing rants at them b:sad

I see so many barbs going fists these days, even Sage barbs. *sigh* and then there was a time when BMs using fists was laughed at b:surrender

Nonetheless, I love being a barb regardless of whether I hold aggro. b:victory

As an off-note: +30 atk lvl blessing access = bye-bye HP

/directs rant to a new topic

Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide

Cybetron - Harshlands wrote: »

Nonetheless, I love being a barb regardless of whether I hold aggro. b:victory

Fuzzy agree 100000%. Me also agree with the pain/problem of not being a tank anymore but even so, this barb wouldn't switch to another class if it came equipped with a free warsoul at level 1.... b:cute

Cybetron - Harshlands wrote: »

As an off-note: +30 atk lvl blessing access = bye-bye HP

ummmm... yup. Something seems wrong to Fuzzy when a sin with +3 rank8 equip and now this blessing can three hit a 15.5k hp (in upright) barb with +5 Nirvana.. b:shocked

Cybetron - Harshlands

Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide wrote: »

ummmm... yup. Something seems wrong to Fuzzy when a sin with +3 rank8 equip and now this blessing can three hit a 15.5k hp (in upright) barb with +5 Nirvana.. b:shocked

Ouch.. although i haven't faced a rank8 sin but the archers have started stinging like hell.. stun + purge + normal arrows + one metal attack = dead ME b:surrender

But Fuzzy has too good a reason to be in the game.. His gorgeous Cascade Glow armor b:dirty

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

In other words, DD has to hold back so you can have argo. That alone proves that our aggro skills aren't efficient enough. And trust me, you will not be able to hold any argo against a perm spark 5 aps bm or sin or any class for that matter with a traditional tank build. Hell, with my +12 nirvana axe, I can't get agro from an 5 aps +5 claw bm.

This message is to all those fist BM's and rockin' DDers out there.

It's not all about *you*.

Instance caves are about *teamwork* - learning how to leverage each class' strengths to defeat a boss. A barbs job is to hold the aggro of the boss while others do damage. The cleric's job is to keep the tank, and the DD'ers alive. The DDers job is to kill the boss, without dragging the aggro away from the tank.

When you drive, do you stomp on the gas when you want to accelerate, and stomp the brakes when you want to slow down?

If you believe that your tank is FAIL, because he has trouble holding aggro from you, while you take a ridiculously refined weapon, and huge piles of sparks, and desperately farm for massive crits... You're an @ss.

Sorry, but there's no other way to express it. If you can't manage to adjust to the squad you are in, *you* FAIL. That nasty-crit build you have is for killing mobs fast and awesome PvP. When in a squad, and you are *working together* to kill a boss, you'd better crank it back, or you're gonna get aggro.

And if you do, and you die from it, you FAIL.

RedMenace

\this is a *multiplayer* game
\\that means there are other humans out there that you are **** over
\\\here's hoping they kick you from squad ASAP

Vorgen - Sanctuary

I agree totally with redmenace if you can't learn to dial it back then thats on you we barbs do the best we can to help our squad. Degrading us because you got 3 major crits in a row is sad and just shows your a whiney child. You DD's are truly Impressive you have power out the @ss....just try and show some restraint when your in a bh of FCC or in anything. You depend on us just as much as we depend on you....you depend on us as well.

And i dont wanna hear about how a barb fails because someone sparks during the beginning of the fight and pulls agro....best time to spark is toward the lasts...i would say 20% of the bosses hp...by then we should have built up sufficient agro to hold for that kinda barrage... also letting us know you are gonna do that means i can spam my agro skills to ride that assault.b:irritatedb:angry

All we ask is for a party consideration... more die because someone wants to show off then actually help. Dont get me wrong its awesome.....but....plz dont i dont want to see a cleric go squish...my wife is a cleric......so no getting my wife killed.b:angry

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

I think the whole point of having DDs in the group is so that they can dash out as much damage as they can and kill things faster. If a crazy fist BM can take and keep argo without much trouble tanking, then let him. He can go all out as much as he wants and I'll just help DD on the side. Saves the group a bunch of time.

Cybetron - Harshlands

Well, firstly, if a fist BM steals aggro from a barb that doesn't make a barb "FAIL" (hate this word) and neither does the BM go around making fun of him. It's only in the nature of the endgame BMs to steal aggro from us. Everyone endgame knows this. If the barb is still being called a fail then the squad he's with is just too childish.

As for the argument "letting us do our "job"" - are you trying to say that instead of every DD doing full damage while BM holds aggro so that the boss dies quickly, the whole squad should just hold back so that a barb can take aggro and kill the boss slowly?b:surrender

@Vorgen If a DD around your level steals aggro, keeps it from other DDs and "survives" then don't you think you should let him? If he steals aggro and DIES then you can tell the cleric not to revive him and once the boss is dead, do a victory dance around his dead body. b:laugh Surely, no DD should take aggro if they think they'll die. Controlling your damage is significant only if the DD can't tank/can't keep aggro from other DDs. If he can do all that then he has every right to tank.

Vorgen - Sanctuary

Most often when agro is stolen from me...its either a wizzy or a psy. When it happens they go squish and i have to grab the boss just before it obliterates the cleric. I am not saying that a Fist bm pulls agro that he should wait for me to get agro back. What i am saying is that when you have a wizzy psy or archer yank agro odds are they are gonna die. Sometimes they get lucky...but would you be happy if a psy yanked agro while you were tanking drum god? That aoe would take out the entire squishy part of the party in 2 shots if not less....

Now i am not trying to get a heated argument outta this i am just stating my idea around it and what i think should be done. If someone has a better plan to deal with it by all means i am open to suggestions. I am just about willing to do anything that can work.b:shocked

Knownase - Heavens Tear

From 60 to 90-ish, Barbs are definitely wanted as tanks.

Past lvl 100, anyone can be a tank these days.

Personally, I've been going DD-based rather than tank build. Sometimes, I steal aggro in human form off of other barbs in tiger form. <____<

As for Fist BMs, yes, they make things go faster. Its $$$ and saves time and the general group is happy.

As for those DDers who like to go all-out and make the Barb work harder.....hope you like partywipes.

Overall, past 100, the interval craze killed off barbs as "most-wanted" tanks.

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Personally, I've been going DD-based rather than tank build. Sometimes, I steal aggro in human form off of other barbs in tiger form. <____<

A.

I've been there, done that and I think I'm still wearing the Tshirt.b:victory

Not much one can do when just doing regular attacks and stealing aggro.

Skippy - Dreamweaver

honestly

when was this game made?

like first outcome of this game i think was in the year 2000

if you read updates on the game, the BIG updates over time.

every class got an update, venos got nixes, BMs got more damage, wizzards got seriusly updates on their damage, and same goes for archers,

last barb update i recall, beastial rage absorbs more magic dammage. and mighty swing a 100% hit rate,

these updates where pretty nice, i thanks the GMs for thad.

but now we get all new gears,, new classes, wich makes us barbs outdated.
all new thinks wich boosts damage for other classes, exept us.

we are simply outdated.

im using claws now with 5.00 speed, the hell, im a barb and im tanking dammit!!!

GMs needs to realise barbs need an update on skills, if barbs are useless now a days,,, i say make us DDs who are capeable of tanking,

1 thing thad really makes me pissed tho, about 2 years ago when i started this game, ive been looking info for barbs at the PW webpage, when u click on classes/barbarians it says we can build it for max tanking or max damage, and also says what weapons we can use.

it says : axe, hammer, double axe, double hammer, sword, blade, double sword, double blade, bows, pike, spear, poleblade, fists, claws....

thad sounded uber,,,, but why the hell add this to the page when we onely have skils for axes and hammers. makes no sence

GMs STOP COUNTING MONEY AND GET TO WORK

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Skippy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it says : axe, hammer, double axe, double hammer, sword, blade, double sword, double blade, bows, pike, spear, poleblade, fists, claws....

I remember reading that too. b:sad
But at least axes look awesome.