Barb Issues

TigerLily - Lost City

Really think they should do something about barbs agro skills. Even if you spam bite and have bramble up, you cant hold agro against someone on same level with stacked interval/attack lvl, or a decently refined g13-15 weapon. Everyone having a +30 blessing doesn't make it easier either. Eventually as barb you will loose aggro unless the DDs take breaks all the time.

I dont think loosing aggro is the end of the world, but it can re-set boss, start range aoe and kill cleric, DDs might die and you have to ress, it just consumes a lot of valuable time inside an instance.

People often say "just make the DDs control dmg". That doesn't really make the situation for barbs any easier. Who wanna have a tank where party cant go full out dmg for fastest runs? Than you rather not have a barb tank and pick someone that wont loose agro AND contributes with high dps, like a fist BM or archer <.<

Which is another reasons why barbs arent used as tanks much endgame. If at least barbs aggro skills got a little boost, they might be more useful for other things than just hp buff.

I dont really think the aggro skills are up to date with current weapon/gear and refines. Pretty sure most DDs didn't have +10 weapons or stacked interval/attack lvl about 5-6 years ago when the game was new.

Even if you're not a pure tank build barb its still kinda hard to hold agro since you're using axes >.<

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Aggro skills aren't up to date. Our best aggro skill maxes at 54 and from then on it just gets harder and harder.


Me thinks that the aggro skills for barbs should be tweaked to make it so barbs can actually tank at endgame. Cause really, as it is we're just useful for buffs.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Aggro skills aren't up to date. Our best aggro skill maxes at 54 and from then on it just gets harder and harder.


Me thinks that the aggro skills for barbs should be tweaked to make it so barbs can actually tank at endgame. Cause really, as it is we're just useful for buffs.

I think it would be pretty simple. Make barbs use fists (ie. all skills usable with fists too).

lordmakyo

My barb is 9x, and usually when we go to BH and stuff, they said that im supposed to tank, and i dont disagree, then 5 mins after we start, arches/sins/bms/wizards EVEN clerics with weapons +10 steals aggro from me and from any other barb ive seen; then after they hold aggro for few second while we Roar and spam Flesh Realm, they die and then they complain about us not holding aggro with out paying attention to their attacks.

Yea, DDs should be aware of their dmg but, most of the people thinks that they can go ahead and make 50k crits every 2-3 secs with out us barbs loosing aggro.

And lets face it, people will never listen to what we said at the moment of tanking, because once they get a weapon with a really nice refine, they only show off about it, giving us a really hard day

Tanking and Holding aggro is easy, when ur DDs on squad doesnt have weapons with a refine higher than +5 , thats how i see it so far.

Danikovich - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think it would be pretty simple. Make barbs use fists (ie. all skills usable with fists too).

Pft, when I created this character a year ago it told me it'd be using Axes & Hammers etc, not fists. So hopefully if the devs were to change anything they better not do something like that.

XxIfritxX - Lost City

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

After you get surf impact, you can AOE with squads. Roar, then surf impact, switch to human and use swell, slam, firestorm then back in tiger form and use surf impact. Use some MP and your problem solved.


Try using beastial rage while in AOEs while you spark. You'll get to use sunder too.

You can't just use one skill and just leave them alone for 60 seconds, use your AOE attack skills

^ ...........LoL @ this

anwynd

hmmm would kind of make sense for a barb to use claws lol well its a good thing i didnt lvl my barb to high *sighs* guess i should stop lvling it & choose one of my other chars for my new mainb:cry

Klizzahrd - Lost City

lordmakyo wrote: »

Well i dont know if the rest is agree on this but, i think that we barbs should have our skill Roar with a better effect like make it last for 1-2 minutes with out beeing able to loose aggro during that time or so.

The reason of this is simple, many ppl complains that some barbs dont hold aggro because -we- cant tank, or that we are nothing but nabs, and as you all know, any barbarian looses aggro in less that 10-15 secs after using Roar if someone has a weapon with a really high damage or if someone makes 3 times the damage that we can make on the mobs. Most of this happens at FC, ppl complains about that, even knowing that Roar its like "Get attention" of the mobs, but doesnt makes you hold aggro for ever; and yea i know there is some othe alternatives like Alpha Male ansd such but its almost thesame with that skill, so Im just asking if theres something you could do for our Barb's Roar skill.

If a DD is competent, they'll adjust to the barb whose doing the tanking. Imo those skills aren't actually needed, they're just a bonus to help you and DD get a bit more done (and keep em off cleric ). Sure it might take us a bit to figure out how much damage we can deal without taking aggro from you, but if ppl in your squad are STILL doing it by end of Frost and blaming you they're just dumb and its not your fault.

And who you squadding with that takes more than 15 seconds to kill mob pulls in Frost?

Klizzahrd - Lost City

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

People often say "just make the DDs control dmg". That doesn't really make the situation for barbs any easier. Who wanna have a tank where party cant go full out dmg for fastest runs? Than you rather not have a barb tank and pick someone that wont loose agro AND contributes with high dps, like a fist BM or archer <.<

Which is another reasons why barbs arent used as tanks much endgame. If at least barbs aggro skills got a little boost, they might be more useful for other things than just hp buff.
QUOTE]

That is true. It's a really bad feeling when you realize you'll be stashing your good bow and using crappy fists the whole instance lol

Vaktoth - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Aggro skills aren't up to date. Our best aggro skill maxes at 54 and from then on it just gets harder and harder.


Me thinks that the aggro skills for barbs should be tweaked to make it so barbs can actually tank at endgame. Cause really, as it is we're just useful for buffs.

Either that or higher level bosses damage is not up to date so classes with lower hp can tank them, or end game gear makes them not up to date so hp pool is not an issue as long as bosses do not debuff.

On top of that, some higher level friends told me some of those bosses have ~1KK hp, making killing speed much more desirable if survivability is not an issue.

buttercupcruella

*Is shocked*

I have to openly admit with EVERYBODY here (but Yulk [try tanking pole/nob while constantly changing from normal to tiger form; no need to waste more time and space on his comment]). I declare (no trolling, it's for real) this thread the best one in a long time. Everybody here has decent experience and adds some valuable points to the conversation. Good job people. You give me hope. Maybe there are some people with brainz in PWI.

As for roar and aggro skills. Yes, roar should be... better somehow... Spamming flesh ream is not fun. I wanna use other cool skillz too while tanking.b:dirty Taking venos for runs for sparks, ofc, it is a good idea. Using chi building skills? Yes of course. DDers knowing how to attack without totally holding back - sure. Team work FTW. And ALWAYS, if some1 else WANTS to tank, I say go for it. Either it goes faster (no aggro stealing and I do more damage while in normal form) or the person suicides (sometimes causing squad wipes) and then it comes back to me to tank.

But mainly first part of what I wrote. You all get a plus from me (if it means anything LOL)b:surrender

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

buttercupcruella wrote: »

*Is shocked*

I have to openly admit with EVERYBODY here (but Yulk [try tanking pole/nob while constantly changing from normal to tiger form; no need to waste more time and space on his comment]). I declare (no trolling, it's for real) this thread the best one in a long time. Everybody here has decent experience and adds some valuable points to the conversation. Good job people. You give me hope. Maybe there are some people with brainz in PWI.

But mainly first part of what I wrote. You all get a plus from me (if it means anything LOL)b:surrender

offtopic: awww nested parentheses ftw

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

as long as its not nested for loops and such b:chuckle

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

as long as its not nested for loops and such b:chuckle

why? nested loops are yummy! 30min ago i optimized one ^.^

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

nested loops and optimization dont belong in a single sentence

TigerLily - Lost City

Why move this tread to class-discussion? Holding aggro is something that concerns everyones, its a party related issues, not just 1 class.

Only barbs i know that actually can hold aggro these days are Demon strength/dex build high level barbs with +10/+12 or better weapons and lvl 11 Demon flesh ream with short cooldown, demon tiger for full dmg.

But against any 4-5 aps sin/bm they loose aggro as well. They will loose it against interval build archers with rank8/g15 weapon to if they demon spark/spam QS.

You average vit/tank build barb cant hold aggro at all, specially not on BHs.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

Can the moderator who moved this thread explain why? This was a discussion that was meant to involve other classes them being the damage dealers... Not much of a discussion amongst our selves and im very sure no developers or anyone of any interest would look here... Is this a case of sweeping the problem under the carpet?

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

Juggernaut - Harshlands wrote: »

When I am in a group with a Blademaster that has 5.0 attack speed and +12 hh100 fists, I am not going to tank. If I tanked a boss, the BM would have to hold back on his dps, and the boss would take a long time to kill. If he went all out, and got aggro, the cleric has to struggle with healing two people as the aggro goes back and forth. If I accept the fact that the BM can tank just fine, I can Devour and DD in human form and the boss goes down much faster then if I was tanking it.

When I am in a group with a high level Veno that has a Herc, I am not going to tank bosses that the Herc can tank just fine. The Herc can reflect a lot of the damage back to the boss, and it also allows me to DD in human form, dealing more damage. The boss goes down faster, and the cleric doesn't even have to heal anyone unless the boss aoes.

I'm sorry you were annoyed with that comment, but the fact remains that Barbs are not the most efficient way of tanking bosses at endgame.

Truth.

As a barb I'm only asked to tank a very few bosses. It's just not worth playing the musical aggro game. I'll catch the lured boss, FR a few times, Devour and then go humanoid and triple spark while the fist BM is DPSing.

It sucks for me because I'm quite proud of my tanking skills, but there's no reason to fight for aggro with a BM that's doing 5 or 10 times my damage. If, somehow, he loses aggro to a robe or an archer, then I'll act as a secondary tank...but that's about all we have anymore at 90+.

IDecision - Raging Tide

This is the 2nd thread ive read about barbs being replaced as tanks basically, and honestly how often do you see other players (not barbs) amazingly geared tanking instead of a barb? i hope not often because i made a barb to tank and not be replaced by anyone other than a better barb... i mean we all have our rolls but whats the point of a barb if he/she isnt a tanking b:sad

Knownase - Heavens Tear

IDecision - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is the 2nd thread ive read about barbs being replaced as tanks basically, and honestly how often do you see other players (not barbs) amazingly geared tanking instead of a barb? i hope not often because i made a barb to tank and not be replaced by anyone other than a better barb... i mean we all have our rolls but whats the point of a barb if he/she isnt a tanking b:sad

At end-game, buffs and back-up tank. I've seen some fist BMs.......die from tanking....makes me......lol <___<

But yea, for the most part, we are wanted for our epic buffs.b:surrender

rawr...

Juggernaut - Harshlands

IDecision - Raging Tide wrote: »

whats the point of a barb if he/she isnt a tanking b:sad

Buffs and pulling catapults.

Havoc_Greg - Raging Tide

It's a typical behavior in instances I've observed over and over again:

I rush into the mobs group, Roar-Ream them and then the rest of DD's begin to hit mobs randomly resulting in loss of aggro, some of DD's dead or Cleric in danger, and they begin to claim on me: BAD BARB! BAAAD BARB! U CAN'T KEEP AGGRO.b:laugh

Then they keep doing the same thing and I stay as a Barb-ecue!b:angry

Why they don't hit the same mob I do, leaving the rest mobs aggro on me, to kill them one by one this way? Quick and deadly.

I agree Barbs need some Super-Nuke-Aggro skill for this case.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Havoc_Greg - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's a typical behavior in instances I've observed over and over again:

I rush into the mobs group, Roar-Ream them and then the rest of DD's begin to hit mobs randomly resulting in loss of aggro, some of DD's dead or Cleric in danger, and they begin to claim on me: BAD BARB! BAAAD BARB! U CAN'T KEEP AGGRO.b:laugh

Then they keep doing the same thing and I stay as a Barb-ecue!b:angry

Why they don't hit the same mob I do, leaving the rest mobs aggro on me, to kill them one by one this way? Quick and deadly.

I agree Barbs need some Super-Nuke-Aggro skill for this case.

Roar doesn't mean you will have aggro. I found that out the hard way. lol

Usually you need to use Sunder after Roar so you will have the aggro usually.

Aggro control gets easier past 60, just need to lvl your skills and get them all.b:victory

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

Havoc_Greg - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's a typical behavior in instances I've observed over and over again:

I rush into the mobs group, Roar-Ream them and then the rest of DD's begin to hit mobs randomly resulting in loss of aggro, some of DD's dead or Cleric in danger, and they begin to claim on me: BAD BARB! BAAAD BARB! U CAN'T KEEP AGGRO.b:laugh

Then they keep doing the same thing and I stay as a Barb-ecue!b:angry

Why they don't hit the same mob I do, leaving the rest mobs aggro on me, to kill them one by one this way? Quick and deadly.

I agree Barbs need some Super-Nuke-Aggro skill for this case.

No, you need DDs that know what "Assist Attack" is used for. You also need to do a better job at teaching your squad how to do this. At least come up with a plan ahead of time. Multiple mobs+ multiple DDs= multiple aggro and dead squadmates.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Roar doesn't mean you will have aggro. I found that out the hard way. lol

Usually you need to use Sunder after Roar so you will have the aggro usually.

Aggro control gets easier past 60, just need to lvl your skills and get them all.b:victory

Agreed.

Everyone in the party has to work their char for the good of the squad. I've been in too many squads where the Barb's job is to Hold The Boss, While We Crit-Farm.

The difference between steady DPS while the barb holds the boss, and EVERYONE SPARK AND HF, NAO is not enough time to make it worth juggling aggro and someone getting splatted - just so you can have your screenshot.

You want aggro that badly? It's yours. But I'm gonna laugh my *** off when you die, and I ain't waitin on you for the next boss.

<snort>

RedMenace

\91 cleric as well
\\gawd, EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A FRICKIN BARB
\\<pant, pant>
\\\Don't change Roar, just make FleshReam last longer

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

roar is just an emergency aggro resetter imo, at least till it gets sage or demon. I see some barbs use it all the time, but I only use it a emergency. Roar then sunder or fleshream depending if it's several mobs or just 1 boss. The only thing they should change imo is the lvl. I never noticed a difference between roar lvl1 and roar lvl10. They should just make it a 1 lvl skill like beastial rage to save our spirit for other skills :P

When it comes to holding aggro, the fist-mania really starts to annoy me ... (but the original fist-bms must feel good that everyone wants to be like them after being n00bed at for over a year lol)
I've been in squad with a fist barb (deicides and TT99 armor) and honestly it sucks.
I've seen a bm brag about being the ultimate DD and ultimate tank to a wizzie ... till there was a boss the wizzie could also tank. Most fist-bms rely on their heavy refined gear, but with comparable gear their damage doesn't match a true DD.
I've been in so many squads where everyone starts to spark as soon as venos pet hits the boss and is stowed ... Cleric starts a bb, 1 DD less in squad, I wonder why it takes so long to kill brig when they do that.
I know some awesome fist-bms that don't spark all the time on boss, even with their -interval gear. They let me tank, allow the cleric to do something other then just spam IH, and sort their poleweap and axes to make real use of their sparks. Bosses go down so fast, no aggro issues, cleric has also fun ... damn they rock.

There is nothing wrong with barbs aggro skills imo, as long as squad knows how to work togather. Of course any DD can take aggro of me if they want too, especially if they have a +8 (or higher) lunar weap. Most DD say I have good aggro, and they really have to try on purpose to steal it. I don't mind at all that bm or herc can tank stuff, barbs need some time for themselves as well. Still, barb will stay the most efficient tank for me (on most bosses) if the squad knows how to work as a team.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've been in squad with a fist barb (deicides and TT99 armor) and honestly it sucks.
I've seen a bm brag about being the ultimate DD and ultimate tank to a wizzie ... till there was a boss the wizzie could also tank. Most fist-bms rely on their heavy refined gear, but with comparable gear their damage doesn't match a true DD.

Doesn't match a true DD? Aren't fist bms true DDs? If the fist bm can reach 5 aps and with 5+ refine on their fist/claws, I really doubt a comparable wiz can match their damage output overtime.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with barbs aggro skills imo, as long as squad knows how to work togather.

In other words, DD has to hold back so you can have argo. That alone proves that our aggro skills aren't efficient enough. And trust me, you will not be able to hold any argo against a perm spark 5 aps bm or sin or any class for that matter with a traditional tank build. Hell, with my +12 nirvana axe, I can't get agro from an 5 aps +5 claw bm.

Traz - Dreamweaver

What should really boggle your mind is the fact our main aggro skills stops at level 54, what about the other 46 levels???? No wonder our aggro holding goes to **** end-game.

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »

roar is just an emergency aggro resetter imo, at least till it gets sage or demon.

It's a wonderful chi builder at higher levels, same with Frighten. I'll use it just after a sunder or after I use Invoke.

They let me tank, allow the cleric to do something other then just spam IH, and sort their poleweap and axes to make real use of their sparks. Bosses go down so fast, no aggro issues, cleric has also fun ... damn they rock.

I love it when that happens.

There is nothing wrong with barbs aggro skills imo, as long as squad knows how to work togather. Of course any DD can take aggro of me if they want too, especially if they have a +8 (or higher) lunar weap. Most DD say I have good aggro, and they really have to try on purpose to steal it. I don't mind at all that bm or herc can tank stuff, barbs need some time for themselves as well. Still, barb will stay the most efficient tank for me (on most bosses) if the squad knows how to work as a team.

Our skills would be better if the DDs could go all out while we tank, IMO.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This :P b:surrender barbs not holding aggro is based on player skill alone any barb over 90 will have no problems ever holding aggro or shouldn't unless its a archer with +12 and you only have +3 b:sad Barbs past 50 should have a small difficulty but not really too much trouble under that and you don't really tank a lot of things.

b:chuckle But alas if chi is your issue recruit a veno thats their jobs after all and brambled barbs shouldn't lose aggro really at all. Or get a keyword when your chi is low tell them to hold back for a bit and get your chi up once chi is back to a acceptable level resume killing. Simple yes?

Go play "you can`t take aggro" with BMs whom got lunar claws and say that with a straight face, ijs. Also those lunar bows +10 are nightmare, with demon spark. Haven`t been in squads with sins lately but what I learned at lower levels, those are even worse than archers with whole aggro thing... I can hold lvl "?" bosses, though it`s not too easy, normal once are kinda pointless to even try, if there is any of mentioned above, with lunar wep.