How to make 5m coins on 1 weeks.

Alphae - Lost City

Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Being a noob is excusable and goes away with gameplay experience. CSNness is/does not. There is not just one type of CSN, though I forgot about the refines. I'm talking about people who skipped a huge part of the gameplay experience. The people who went from 1-100 in 2 weeks, or even the people who went from 20-80 in two weeks. Sure, around lvl70+, you're on the short end of the stick if you dont shard your armor, but that is one small aspect of CSNness.
I agree with your last point though. The happy medium is playing the game. Quest, BH, do events and dungeouns, and use the money you come across wisely, whether its ingame or RL.

Neddih is correct; farming teaches nothing. You need to participate in "expensive" instances, like higher level TTs, Frost, Rebirth, and TW, as well as in solo and group PvP, to fully understand how to utilize your class. To do these things, you need certain qualifications. For example, many people recommend that in order to rebirth, you need 5k HP (unbuffed is preferable, but buffed is acceptable), and an HP charm, and wizards and archers need an additional MP charm. That HP comes from stats, but also from gears. Obviously the charms come from the cash shop.

With the market inefficiency that Solandri described, the coin needed to buy the gold to purchase charms is high, and would likely take 2-3 times as long to earn by grinding (because to participate in money-making TTs, you need gears too) as it would for you to earn the money it takes to purchase those charms, and sell the rest of the gold for coin to buy gears.

Furthermore, noobs remain at all levels of play. There are plenty of people that unfortunately, by way of chance, manage to skate though the game (i.e. guilds full of otherwise good players that support them, regardless of their position in-guild) without truly learning how to, for instance, manage agro in a party situation, where they belong in group PvP and TW, their role dungeon instances, etc.

There is a reason people cashshop now for their uber gears. Before the packs came out, there were only a handful of people who had any of those items, and they took months of high-level guild work, farming instances and merchanting + selling gold (that they cash-shopped) to collect coin, to obtain, if not years. They are now able to obtain them in a matter of days, if they are willing to charge enough gold. That is their prerogative.

Neddih is also correct in saying that people who level via the cash shop are often noobs, but are not always. The learning curve isn't that steep in PWI, and there are a myriad of resources for these people to use so that they don't make a fool of themselves.

Reichle - Sanctuary

Neddih - Harshlands wrote: »

are you trying to say that farming for hours to gain a few hundred k coin is experience playing this game? because thats what the original posts were about and what the argument about getting a job was against.
^*sigh* here we go again. I'm not trying to say that farming gets you gameplay experience, but if someone chooses to do it, they shouldnt be bashed with the age old "get a job you'll make money easier" argument.

im sorry but farming for any period of time wont teach you anything but to avoid mobs, while getting a job on the other hand might acutally teach you something you could use in the real world.
People have said this about a million times during this thread. Say something I haven't read yet.

cash shop or not. the argument to spend less time earning cash rather than to spend more time farming makes sense. either way its earned. one is just more efficient.
More efficient does not automatically make something preferable. Not everyone does something just because it's easier or less time consuming.

yes some people will feel more accomplished to say "ive never spent a dollar," and if that is your goal then congrats. Dont bash others who dont have time to farm for hours and would rather spend a couple bucks that they earned in less than an hour and get the same amount of coin.
That is not my goal at all. My goal is to level all 8 of my characters and continue learning about the classes and skills and gameplay. I'm not bashing people at all, first. Second, these people are bashing someone who chooses not to spend money.

this thread was not about cash shopping to lvl to 100+ and get good gears. it was about earning money, and its more efficient to get a job to earn money.
This thread was highlighting a way to get coins WITHOUT cash. There's absolutely no point in commenting about something the OP most likely knows about already.

if you cash shop to get to 100+ in a matter of weeks you probably dont know as much about your class, but not necessarily.
There's a difference between knowing your class and knowing how to play it. I doubt that most cash shopped 100 would do as well in TT as most clerics who've been BHing since level40 and TTing since level60. And I say cleric because it's my main character and I know how much concentration, skill, reflexes, and timing it takes to play the character. It also requires some knowledge about other classes, which all of this I doubt a CSN would have from just two weeks of play of mindless grinding to get to whatever high level they are at.

cash shopping for items or coin that would take a long time to farm is not the same as cash shopping to level a character.

I know that. But since you're talking about efficiency, isn't it more efficient to save your money for a vacation than to put it into a game that take months and months if not years to get to the top of? Isn't it more efficient to get to level100 in two weeks so you don't need to worry about a few coins?

My whole entire point was not about cash shopping or leveling, or even gear. All these people responded to these specific points in my argument.

I am saying (for the millionth time) that people do what they prefer. If someone says that they found a way to make 5mil ingame, I dont see the point of telling them they could easily get it out of game with money from a job. They werent asking "How do i get 5mil easily?" They were suggesting a way to get 5mil. Arguments about efficiency do not apply here. There are many ways to do one thing. If you choose to spend your money to get 5mil, so be it, but don't try to make others feel like fails just because they didn't do it your way.

Reichle - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

people should realize that they had to agree from the beginning of playing this game with CS-ing in general

if all players would feel like not spending any money on free games this type of games would never exist... ever. if you dont agree with whats happening then guess what, move on to another game or one with monthly fee

What you're saying is irrelevant to this thread. >__>
No one's bashing CS itself.
I spend a little money on the game myself from time to time.
Anyways. The main point of this thread had nothing at all to do with CS.

Reichle - Sanctuary

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

Neddih is correct; farming teaches nothing. You need to participate in "expensive" instances, like higher level TTs, Frost, Rebirth, and TW, as well as in solo and group PvP, to fully understand how to utilize your class. To do these things, you need certain qualifications. For example, many people recommend that in order to rebirth, you need 5k HP (unbuffed is preferable, but buffed is acceptable), and an HP charm, and wizards and archers need an additional MP charm. That HP comes from stats, but also from gears. Obviously the charms come from the cash shop.
You don't "need" to do those things. They are highly optional. And so are charms and the like. People, after they hit a certain level, feel all this pressure to have sharded gear and awesome weapons and to be charmed all the time. They start worrying about money and forget that the game is supposed to be fun.

With the market inefficiency that Solandri described, the coin needed to buy the gold to purchase charms is high, and would likely take 2-3 times as long to earn by grinding (because to participate in money-making TTs, you need gears too) as it would for you to earn the money it takes to purchase those charms, and sell the rest of the gold for coin to buy gears.
What's your point here? Cuz if you're just gonna repeat Solandri, you could have just posted a reply saying "+1" to his post.

Furthermore, noobs remain at all levels of play. There are plenty of people that unfortunately, by way of chance, manage to skate though the game (i.e. guilds full of otherwise good players that support them, regardless of their position in-guild) without truly learning how to, for instance, manage agro in a party situation, where they belong in group PvP and TW, their role dungeon instances, etc.
I know this. You're getting a bit off-topic.

There is a reason people cashshop now for their uber gears. Before the packs came out, there were only a handful of people who had any of those items, and they took months of high-level guild work, farming instances and merchanting + selling gold (that they cash-shopped) to collect coin, to obtain, if not years. They are now able to obtain them in a matter of days, if they are willing to charge enough gold. That is their prerogative.
And it is other's prerogative to not spend lots of money on the game.

Neddih is also correct in saying that people who level via the cash shop are often noobs, but are not always. The learning curve isn't that steep in PWI, and there are a myriad of resources for these people to use so that they don't make a fool of themselves.

I didnt say that people who cash shop are always noobs. When arguing always and never are death traps.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

mooman321 wrote: »

So my personal goal for myself is to earn my gears in game. Everytime I pull that herc out, I feel good about what I accomplished with hard work.

Yup, that counts as "enjoying" grinding. When I speak of "enjoyment", it's not necessarily referring to enjoying the process of grinding. It's referring to the level of overall satisfaction you get from the game because of grinding. If you get more enjoyment because you "earned" the gear in-game, then yes it would be better for you to grind for coin. I don't spend RL cash on the game because I've started enjoying seeing how much money I can amass without spending RL cash.

Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know that. But since you're talking about efficiency, isn't it more efficient to save your money for a vacation than to put it into a game that take months and months if not years to get to the top of?

That's a 3-option choice rather than the 2-option choice we've been discussing so far. Do you spend your time/money on playing the game for free, working and spending the money on the game, or working and spending the money on a vacation?

It's analyzed the same way, except instead of choosing which gives you the greater enjoyment of the two per time invested, you choose which gives you the greatest enjoyment of the three per time invested. If a $2000 vacation gives you more enjoyment than buying 2000 gold for 800 million coin, or spending 4000 hours grinding for 800 million coin, then by all means go for the vacation. It all depends on how much enjoyment you derive from each activity.

Another thing I haven't mentioned yet for the sake of keeping this simple is there can also be different levels of displeasure too. Perhaps you absolutely hate working in RL, but grinding in the game is tolerable. In that case, 2 hours grinding may be preferable to 10 minutes working. It all depends on your personal tastes.

All I'm saying is don't dismiss the work and pay $$ option out of hand because the game lets you play for free, so you feel you must play it for free. Free doesn't automatically make it the best choice. If someone gives you a free Eric Clapton concert ticket, but you like Bob Dylan more and his concert is on the same night, paying for his concert and trashing the free ticket may actually be a better choice.

Isn't it more efficient to get to level100 in two weeks so you don't need to worry about a few coins?

Level is different. Since the content of the game is distributed across many levels, powering yourself up to 100 skips most of that content, hastening the arrival of the time when the game starts to become boring and you quit, invalidating any permanent purchases you've made (e.g. fashion).

So leveling up quickly is actually a poor way to extract more enjoyment from the game. I've seen the pattern over and over in this and other MMORPGs. People obsess about levels, power themselves to high or max level, then get bored, quit, and move on to another game where they do the exact same thing.

I am saying (for the millionth time) that people do what they prefer. If someone says that they found a way to make 5mil ingame, I dont see the point of telling them they could easily get it out of game with money from a job. They werent asking "How do i get 5mil easily?" They were suggesting a way to get 5mil. Arguments about efficiency do not apply here.

I disagree. I think any posting about making money implicitly includes the "easily" qualifer. Otherwise what's the point of posting it? Would it be worthwhile for me to post that I can make coin by harvesting herbs and selling them to NPCs, then get all upset when people point out that I can sell them for more to other players?

There are many ways to do one thing. If you choose to spend your money to get 5mil, so be it, but don't try to make others feel like fails just because they didn't do it your way.

As I mentioned above, I don't spend RL cash on this game because for me it's become enjoyable to see how well I can do without spending RL cash. So I'm not passing judgment on how others play. Someone mentioned grinding for coin, and I felt it needed to be said that working a RL job for coin is a more efficient use of your time

If they had left it at that, that would've been the end of it. But instead they posted what amounted to "why would you ever want to spend RL cash on this game when you can play it for free?" That spawned the lesson in economics, opportunity costs, and decision-making processes.

Reichle - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yup, that counts as "enjoying" grinding. When I speak of "enjoyment", it's not necessarily referring to enjoying the process of grinding. It's referring to the level of overall satisfaction you get from the game because of grinding. If you get more enjoyment because you "earned" the gear in-game, then yes it would be better for you to grind for coin. I don't spend RL cash on the game because I've started enjoying seeing how much money I can amass without spending RL cash.
...you really need to be more specific in your word choice then. Many people took you to mean enjoying the grinding itself.

That's a 3-option choice rather than the 2-option choice we've been discussing so far. Do you spend your time/money on playing the game for free, working and spending the money on the game, or working and spending the money on a vacation?
There's always more options.

It all depends on how much enjoyment you derive from each activity.
That's what I've been saying. Maybe spending job money is more efficient, but it seems to me that people find more enjoyment in spending pixel coins than in spending real cash.

Another thing I haven't mentioned yet for the sake of keeping this simple is there can also be different levels of displeasure too. ... It all depends on your personal tastes.
Now you bring in all the relevant issues. Sometimes "keeping things simple" messes up your argument.

All I'm saying is don't dismiss the work and pay $$ option out of hand because the game lets you play for free, so you feel you must play it for free. Free doesn't automatically make it the best choice. If someone gives you a free Eric Clapton concert ticket, but you like Bob Dylan more and his concert is on the same night, paying for his concert and trashing the free ticket may actually be a better choice.
No one was dismissing anything.

So leveling up quickly is actually a poor way to extract more enjoyment from the game.
...i know that

I disagree. I think any posting about making money implicitly includes the "easily" qualifer. Otherwise what's the point of posting it? Would it be worthwhile for me to post that I can make coin by harvesting herbs and selling them to NPCs, then get all upset when people point out that I can sell them for more to other players?
Finally a direct reply. To the actual thread. I thought it would never come.

As for the herbs bit, not everyone wants to put up a cat shop and sit around doing nothing just to have a few more thousand coins.

So I'm not passing judgment on how others play. Someone mentioned grinding for coin, and I felt it needed to be said that working a RL job for coin is a more efficient use of your time
Efficient, efficient, efficient. This is all I hear from you. Playing games does not seem to be something that requires efficiency. What are you, a robot? People play games for entertainment, and how they choose to entertain themselves is their business.

If they had left it at that, that would've been the end of it. But instead they posted what amounted to "why would you ever want to spend RL cash on this game when you can play it for free?" That spawned the lesson in economics, opportunity costs, and decision-making processes.

You are so full of yourself. There is no "need" for a "lesson". If you feel the need to school people on how to most efficiently play the game, make a thread of your own, don't flame people who choose their own way.
By the way, just for clarification, I am not in either camp. I appreciate CS and its shoppers, but I personally don't do much CSing myself, and do not think all CSers are noobs. ...just the ones that dont know their way around an instance.

gammazare

making 5 mil a week is pretty good from subs, but where is a good place to find the mats for them?

kenlee

Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »

There's a difference between knowing your class and knowing how to play it. I doubt that most cash shopped 100 would do as well in TT as most clerics who've been BHing since level40 and TTing since level60. And I say cleric because it's my main character and I know how much concentration, skill, reflexes, and timing it takes to play the character. It also requires some knowledge about other classes, which all of this I doubt a CSN would have from just two weeks of play of mindless grinding to get to whatever high level they are at.

this game from all ive played is so... skilless i can say. if you have gaming experience in general it takes such a short time to adapt to any class here in pwi. there are plenty of players that dont chose to take a shortcut to lvl 100 and get fast gear and they still play so bad their own class. the game itself is very easy for people with gaming experience in general, like i just said. some people behind screens probably are their first game or very young or plenty of reasons to suck but its not because the game would require any kind of rocket scientist to play it

Reichle - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

this game from all ive played is so... skilless i can say. if you have gaming experience in general it takes such a short time to adapt to any class here in pwi. there are plenty of players that dont chose to take a shortcut to lvl 100 and get fast gear and they still play so bad their own class. the game itself is very easy for people with gaming experience in general, like i just said. some people behind screens probably are their first game or very young or plenty of reasons to suck but its not because the game would require any kind of rocket scientist to play it

This is very true. But if you don't care about gameplay and just wanna see a high level number next to your characters name and see glowing armor and sparkling weapons, you're still gonna end up playing like a noob. But this is besides the main issue of this thread.

And we're not talking about just playing here. Anyone can just play. But to be good at it and not called a noob...that takes gameplay experience and nothing else.

Aniella - Harshlands

gammazare wrote: »

making 5 mil a week is pretty good from subs, but where is a good place to find the mats for them?

i know 1 place there u can make 8 subs in 1-2hr..xD The village of Naugth..or what the name was

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now you bring in all the relevant issues. Sometimes "keeping things simple" messes up your argument.

Well, that's not all there is too it. It culminates in Arrow's Impossibility Theorem, which basically states that there is no "best" way to decide which is the optimal choice. Different definitions of "best" are equally valid. Hence why I wanted to keep it simple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem

But that only applies when you're faced with 3+ choices. With just 2 choices, it's pretty straightforward.

No one was dismissing anything.

Really?
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8657212#post8657212
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8659302#post8659302

Efficient, efficient, efficient. This is all I hear from you. Playing games does not seem to be something that requires efficiency. What are you, a robot? People play games for entertainment, and how they choose to entertain themselves is their business.

Agreed. And if you talk with some of the people I play with, you'll find that aside from the theoretical aspect of efficiency, I don't really care when I play the game. I won't turn down a low level or poor player in a TT squad simply because he's not efficient. The speedup caused by adding/removing a single player in a squad doesn't make that big a difference, and being nice to your fellow player is more important.

But in this case, the difference in efficiency is tremendous. You're talking 10-15x longer to amass the coin you want by grinding instead of working a RL job. That's such a huge difference that if I didn't point it out, I would feel I was being reticent in my responsibility as a human being to my fellow players. If you saw someone about to buy a TV at a store for $5000, and you knew another store was selling the exact same TV for $500, would you not feel obligated to tell the person?

You are so full of yourself. There is no "need" for a "lesson". If you feel the need to school people on how to most efficiently play the game, make a thread of your own, don't flame people who choose their own way.

If you've felt at any time that I was flaming, I profusely apologize. I've long felt that flaming is counterproductive to arguing. It just makes the other person dig in deeper. I just try to toss out facts or reasoned logic and let the other person "see the light" for themselves. But sometimes in the haste of posting or due to poor editing, something can be written which doesn't come across exactly the right way. You have my sincerest apologies if you felt anything I wrote was insulting. It was not my intent.

That said, why should I make a different thread when what I am posting is completely on-topic in this one? Is not what I'm suggesting a way to make 5 mil coin in 1 week (or less)?

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver

Would be nice, if the mobs in TT60 on the way to royal chamber wouldn't kill me.

IMali - Heavens Tear

Belial - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He is not, but it sounds like others may be. Through refusing to understand the concept, even if it doesn't 100% apply to you because you only have a summer a job or whatever...you're actually missing out on a very good lesson. This does not apply if you enjoy farming or grinding, but why spend 5 hours in a game out of which 4 are grinding and boring and have only one hour for fun?

PS I have a sneaking suspicion PWI has a good way of accepting payments from any country, regardless of international credit cards and whatnot... Paypal and Google Checkout are two that I've used for online shopping before.



Because not everyone is obtuse; some people are actually interested and responsive to ideas or concepts they haven't heard before .

I think you misunderstood her, you didnt even read the part where she said shes not saying she doesnt agree with him, she does 1000% you people need to read the whole post before you post lol

Alphae - Lost City

Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I didnt say that people who cash shop are always noobs. When arguing always and never are death traps.

Please note that you are taking a bit of what I say out of context by replying in the way you do. My posts are meant to be read and understood as a whole, not in small chunks as you are replying to them; that may be why I seem off-topic.

I simply would like to make 1 final note that I find it incredibly frustrating that, when presented with an idea that is logically sound but emotionally unsatisfactory, that so many people can completely ignore it, in such creative, deft ways.

Aniella - Harshlands

i grind 18hr ..farm mats + kill mobs.+ farm DQ item and sell..lisen to music .8D it was fun
And when i start grind and farm..I think this gona take years + boring..but it didn't o.o

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

@ Solandri
I absolutely agree with you. Your posts are great.

@OP I wouldnt buy a US for more than 39k but I guess that you could "overprice" them a bit and still sell them