Behold the most OP scenario

Aquagirl - Raging Tide

meh, I have better (and more fun) things to do than educate oracle nubs

Olba - Sanctuary

Aquagirl - Raging Tide wrote: »

this makes your argument void and shows how little you know about interval gear. Useless wall of text is useless, I stopped reading right there.

Well, Cyclone Heel or Demon Spark. But you already need a permanent 4 APS for Cyclone Heel to do the job, and that already takes every piece of interval stuff you can get. Of course, not counting unrealistic theory-crafted -0.15 Nirvana fists.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Plus, unless the person is sage, they fall out of either sparked status or speed boost before the other one finishes. So you'd need to spend around 500 million coins and be sage to actually have 5 APS with spark damage for the whole duration. And that is if bought at one time, not counting the steps someone would need in between if they were going to try any kind of TT soloing, which still wouldn't be worth it at that time anyways.

Unless the new argument is going to separate the damage and APS issues and claim 5 attacks without sparked damage is OP as well? Because then there are other classes that can beat that damage in PvE.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Unless the new argument is going to separate the damage and APS issues and claim 5 attacks without sparked damage is OP as well? Because then there are other classes that can beat that damage in PvE.

On testing several different mobs, as well as a number bosses in 3-3, 5aps can be beaten. An archer with +10 Heaven Shatterer inside red bubble will steal and hold aggro over +10 Lunar Claws at 4aps perma-sparked. A +11 Rank 8 bow will steal and hold aggro over +11 Lunar 5aps hell-sparked. Then again, this may have more to do with threat generation from spike damage rather than constant higher DPS and without knowing the somewhat confusing threat system it's not possible to say, only that 5aps BMs can be beaten. It's just the rage to whine about -interval fist/claw users when full -interval archers with highly refined bows can perform similarly. And, in this so called debate about 'soloing' instances, archers with high HP using bows may fare just as well soloing many of these higher instance bosses as they do far less ranged damage than they do against melee classes.

TigerLily - Lost City

There is a reason why even rank8 and g15 nirvana bow archers uses fists to DD. Holding aggro is not the same as out damaging or "beating" someone. Just silly trying to argue bow versus fist dps. Go read the nerdy archer forum with dps calculations lol.

Archers will steal/hold aggro over anyone in red bubble since triple spark gets over written.

I do think 5 aps in pve is unfair towards casters. How ever a lot of things in this game is unfair. Casters where always rather useless for farming, interval builds made them even more so. Casters how ever have heavy benefits in endgame in pvp - i guess its a trade-of. Majority of casters here dont care about endgame pvp tho since they play on pve servers, so for them i guess it sucks.

I dont think anyone with half a brain ever complained about 5 aps BMs in pvp - people complain about assassins than Bms starts to hijack treads. BMs use to be a pvp-support class with no real ability to shine endgame, interval builds made them balanced and competitive again. Pretty much everyone can agree on that. Endgame wizards/barbs will still 1 shoot any other class.

Only pvp-issue here is assassins with 4/5 aps, hitting way harder but just as fast as any other interval build. You dont even get a dmg-log and charm often doesn't tick when they demon spark from stealth. Thats what people should discuss. The fact that you as interval build assassin can use CoD and demon spark and still have relatively high interval is kind of sickening.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

On testing several different mobs, as well as a number bosses in 3-3, 5aps can be beaten. An archer with +10 Heaven Shatterer inside red bubble will steal and hold aggro over +10 Lunar Claws at 4aps perma-sparked. A +11 Rank 8 bow will steal and hold aggro over +11 Lunar 5aps hell-sparked. Then again, this may have more to do with threat generation from spike damage rather than constant higher DPS and without knowing the somewhat confusing threat system it's not possible to say, only that 5aps BMs can be beaten. It's just the rage to whine about -interval fist/claw users when full -interval archers with highly refined bows can perform similarly. And, in this so called debate about 'soloing' instances, archers with high HP using bows may fare just as well soloing many of these higher instance bosses as they do far less ranged damage than they do against melee classes.

Ehhh not really....
My +10 CV bow does 20k-26k demon sparked at 1.25/s ~ 29k dps
My +8 CV claws do 8.5k-10k demon sparked at 5a/s ~ 46k dps

This is not including my crit which is 35% for claws and 38% for bow. Also this does not include blazing arrow which would favor bow a bit since it is only based on attack from your weapon and not other gear.

With Awaken, Chi Siphon, and spark pots I can keep demon spark up with bow for about 60s while with claws I can keep demon spark up indefinitely and spam frenzy / poison pots.

The perma-spark is what makes 5a/s pull out ahead. A good test of sustained DPS output is orb collecting in city of abominations which is roughly proportional to DPS. I solo about 450 orbs with claws versus 160 orbs with bow.

Mellee tanking is definitely far more demanding than range tanking though. High HP helps since heals from demon spark and tree of protection are stronger.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

On testing several different mobs, as well as a number bosses in 3-3, 5aps can be beaten. An archer with +10 Heaven Shatterer inside red bubble will steal and hold aggro over +10 Lunar Claws at 4aps perma-sparked.

And you tell me I don't know how to play my class? When you don't even know red bubble/Heaven's Wrath overrides the spark bonuses? b:cute

Here's a food for thought: archer on my server with +10 Lunar is usually 7th at event (in archers of course) and by a large margin mind you. Next day you seem him WCing about buying Lunar Weapon Insignia or Deicide Fists. I wonder what does that mean really? b:question

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Here's a food for thought: archer on my server with +10 Lunar is usually 7th at event (in archers of course) and by a large margin mind you. Next day you seem him WCing about buying Lunar Weapon Insignia or Deicide Fists. I wonder what does that mean really? b:question

Teh Gasp!
he's got a BM alt!
b:shocked
yesh yesh~
of course, of course
b:avoid

NightRage - Raging Tide

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

And you tell me I don't know how to play my class? When you don't even know red bubble/Heaven's Wrath overrides the spark bonuses? b:cute

Here's a food for thought: archer on my server with +10 Lunar is usually 7th at event (in archers of course) and by a large margin mind you. Next day you seem him WCing about buying Lunar Weapon Insignia or Deicide Fists. I wonder what does that mean really? b:question

It means that I'm2pro4u

kenlee

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

On testing several different mobs, as well as a number bosses in 3-3, 5aps can be beaten. An archer with +10 Heaven Shatterer inside red bubble will steal and hold aggro over +10 Lunar Claws at 4aps perma-sparked. A +11 Rank 8 bow will steal and hold aggro over +11 Lunar 5aps hell-sparked. Then again, this may have more to do with threat generation from spike damage rather than constant higher DPS and without knowing the somewhat confusing threat system it's not possible to say, only that 5aps BMs can be beaten. It's just the rage to whine about -interval fist/claw users when full -interval archers with highly refined bows can perform similarly. And, in this so called debate about 'soloing' instances, archers with high HP using bows may fare just as well soloing many of these higher instance bosses as they do far less ranged damage than they do against melee classes.

maybe that archer can keep agro but it doesnt mean it has higher damage. for example i have a pet (herc). if i send him first to tank a [?] boss, before a -int fist bm start to atk, i can assure you that pet can hold agro about half of the boss hp. that is happening in nirvana too and i know that pet damage is low since i can deal the same damage or higher than my pet

Mosz - Heavens Tear

that is because of reflect and bash and herc doesnt hold aggro for long anymore

Asperitas - Lost City

Aquagirl - Raging Tide wrote: »

this makes your argument void and shows how little you know about interval gear. Useless wall of text is useless, I stopped reading right there.

Okay my bad. Cyclone heel and relentless courage(?) are options.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Lol @ thread .

And even more lol @ the ppl from pve servers that barely or never pvp saying fists are OP in pvp .

I could rant about cancel-cast DBB and glacial spike combos but allot of it would be invalid .

It's easy to just post theories of what x can do to y but actually doing it in pvp , especially in a mass pvp battle is another story .

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

And you tell me I don't know how to play my class? When you don't even know red bubble/Heaven's Wrath overrides the spark bonuses? b:cute

Because it's completely illogical that the Archer could be sitting in the bubble with other ranged classes while the BM stands outside the 20 meter radius of either one, right? b:cute

nerdraging

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Not at all, many of my posts are actually quite helpful. Some of my posts are indeed troll-like, that I don't deny. E-ego and E peen? Hardly. Opinionated and willing to share it and a strong disdain for the dim-witted? Yeah, I'm not above sinking down to someone's level to tell them exactly what I think.

That means you're a nub when you call someone a nub? a QQer? a moron? I think you just slapped yourself in your face.


lolwut?

You, sir, take this far too seriously (Yes talking about virtual courage in a virtual world is not srs bzness). I come to the forums when I'm bored... I just browse and post when I am compelled (compelled? Just like you're compelled to call someone a nub, QQer, moron? Yes you're compelled by the little voice in your head alright). I'm not particularly concerned (not concerned? you're here arguing till you're turning blue in the face) with what I type as long as I'm fairly certain that I'm in the right (You're always right and everyone else just has to accept what you say). When I encounter attitude, I dish it back out in spades (Attitude? you're the only one going around calling every other second poster a nub, QQer, moron. When someone is a bit strong with their words, you go 'HOW DARE HE THE IMBECILE NUB! RANT RANT RANT.). I'm usually just sitting here smiling (state of self denial? The first step in knowing you have a problem is admitting you have a problem), perhaps I'm even laughing. When I'm done posting I go off and do whatever without giving it much thought at all. (Heck I'm beginning to think you sit there refreshing it what with your constant posts, take a look at the time stamps of your posts).

You, on the other hand... you quite proudly notified me that this is your little account that you specifically log into to so you can troll people. For some reason, you just can't bring yourself to do it on your primary account. You're either ashamed, afraid, trying to maintain some perceived reputation or have me sort of reservation about posting from your main. Clearly, you've put way too much thought into this to hypocritically state that I take this game too seriously. Project much?

I wouldn't particularly care if you were one of my best friends (you don't even care about friends see? Narcississtic on top of egoistic, opinionated now aren't you?) in the game or someone I don't know. It wouldn't matter and I would just laugh about it. It's obvious from the time and effort you've put into your post, as well as your ulterior need to log off your normal account and log into this just to make a statement that you should heed your own advice instead of trying to give it.

And, you're saying I'm taking this forum way too seriously. You can just keep thinking that if it makes you feel better about yourself (Of course I feel confident and good with myself. That's why I dare to dish it out to a narcississtic, opinionated, egoistic person like yourself). lol

If you aren't taking this game seriously, why the heck are you arguing here in the forums? Just go and play the game. Bored? Reroll another class or go find a new game to play.

I like to keep my game life away from the forum, thank you. Unlike you, I'm not here to show off my character's levels and brag about it and think PWI is SRS BZNESS. I'm done with you. Go do some stuffs that demands real world courage instead of sitting in your comfy chair typing away on your keyboard telling everybody how courageous you are charging at pixelated stuffs.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

And you tell me I don't know how to play my class? When you don't even know red bubble/Heaven's Wrath overrides the spark bonuses? b:cute

Umm... you're still clueless.

Want me to draw a picture with paint?

I am in melee range right in front of the boss... with archer at max distance. Blue bubble in-between us, with red bubble by the archer. This is like... the oldest trick in the book. To spell it out for you, both the cleric and archer were in red bubble range, while I was outside of red bubble.

Please tell me you don't know that simple trick... the BB will provide extra healing since the matk is increased by RB, the archer gets attack speed bonus and damage bonus, and as a melee I get the benefit of the extra healing while I'm out of RB range. Duh.

Hurr dee dur. I mean, seriously, am I the only one that's thought of this or does this in PWI?

kenlee wrote: »

maybe that archer can keep agro but it doesnt mean it has higher damage. for example i have a pet (herc). if i send him first to tank a [?] boss, before a -int fist bm start to atk, i can assure you that pet can hold agro about half of the boss hp. that is happening in nirvana too and i know that pet damage is low since i can deal the same damage or higher than my pet

Herc with reflect and bash don't have damage reduction to ? mobs and bosses, while any char using weapons and skills have severe damage reduction.

That is the reason why your herc can hold aggro for longer than it would on a level specified mob.

BTW, if I don't triple spark macro, herc can tank over my fists on a ? boss indefinitely.

EDIT: I'll post my techicque, because I'm sure someone won't understand without it being explained to them. Boss pulled, herc attacks, I fist until I get my sharptooth, then I dragon + tangling mire and then stop attacking for about 15 seconds. Then I can normal attack at 3.33 aps and not worry about taking aggro till the boss is dead, and even if I do, I can stop attacking and since my unsparked damage isn't all that significant, the herc will regain aggro like, in a second or two at most.

nerdraging wrote: »

If you aren't taking this game seriously, why the heck are you arguing here in the forums? Just go and play the game. Bored? Reroll another class or go find a new game to play.

I like to keep my game life away from the forum, thank you. Unlike you, I'm not here to show off my character's levels and brag about it and think PWI is SRS BZNESS. I'm done with you. Go do some stuffs that demands real world courage instead of sitting in your comfy chair typing away on your keyboard telling everybody how courageous you are charging at pixelated stuffs.

Umm... whatever. You're on a troll account. You're putting far too much thought into this to not be taking this more seriously than I am. You logged onto this account to troll me, now you expect me to take a lecture of yours seriously? Give me a break. YOU are taking this too seriously.

(you don't even care about friends see? Narcississtic on top of egoistic, opinionated now aren't you?)

Of course I do silly little man. What's that saying... You can say whatever you want to those that matter, and it doesn't matter to those who don't... or some **** like that. I guess in your sheltered little life you can't voice an opinion without being scared. Is that why you need a troll account, because this carries over to some real life issues of yours? lol

I lol'd at a lot of your red text. Too bad you were lazy to format a post or I'd come back when I had nothing better to do to respond to all of it, but you're making me work too hard for it.