Behold the most OP scenario

Illyana - Dreamweaver

As Heartstone has already said, Chezedude's assassin has proved the 5 APS using chill of the deep for +50 ATK Lvl.

And yes, it is insanely OP'd.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Well one point to make though, those equips mentioned are not possible for everyone or the majority of the crowd so I wouldnt call it insanely OP either.

Would you call a claw and fist with the following mods OPed?

Claw

Maximum Physical Attack +118
Maximum Physical Attack +118
Maximum Physical Attack +118
Maximum Physical Attack +118
Critical Hit Rate +2%
Atk. Level +50

Fist

HP: +205
Critical Hit Rate +2%
Critical Hit Rate +2%
Critical Hit Rate +2%
Freeze: Has a chance to freeze the opponent for 3 seconds.
Atk. Level +50

If youre wondering what these are, yes these are the mods on a warsoul claw and fist which are grade 16 weapons.

Now although theyre extremely difficult and expensive to acquir, should someone be crazy enough to get them, would you call it OPed?

Illyana - Dreamweaver

@Elv, it is "more OP'd" because of the assassin only skill Chill of the Deep for +50 attack level. Couple that with a sage spark and blood paint and you get Chezedude's assassin, A_Noob.

For those who don't know, A_Noob solo'd:

-His FB 99
-FC
-Nirvana
-TT 1-1 to 3-3 all bosses.

Keep in mind, he did this much faster than your typical average entire squad. b:chuckle

Elviron - Dreamweaver

@Illyana
Doesnt this mean that claws/fists arent as OPed as the skill Chill of the Deep?

So instead of fixing all the claws/fists, atk speed, etc. Isnt it would be easier to nerf one skill or make it work slightly differently so that it doesnt be so OPed? I mean sins already have capabilities that make them solo far easier than other classes.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

rage more assworm, the thing is, I accept the fact that -int BM out DPS other classes and move on.

Ok you "accept and move on". I respect that. I don't, on the other hand, "accept and move on", because with that attitude, nothing would get done. So why don't you accept that I don't share your viewpoint on the game's issues? I accept that you do, I never told you "hey dude, you're too silent, start QQing about this!" so I would like you to do the same and agree to disagree instead of mindlessly bashing. kthxbai.

As for wizards not being squishy... think a little. Squishyness is used in comparisons. They are more squishy than BMs and Barbs. They simply have less HP. Yet BMs (not barbs ofc that was just for comparison) have way more DPS AND stuns. Barbs can get higher too with fists. What is there to discuss? I don't know that many wizards than solo-tank their TT runs.

And yes wizards may be less squishy than psychics. But I don't remember comparing them at this point with psys. This is more of a "magic class vs 5aps classes" btw, not necessarily wizards...

so what you're (plural) saying is, BMs are more squishy than wizards? Seriously?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok you "accept and move on". I respect that. I don't, on the other hand, "accept and move on", because with that attitude, nothing would get done. So why don't you accept that I don't share your viewpoint on the game's issues? I accept that you do, I never told you "hey dude, you're too silent, start QQing about this!" so I would like you to do the same and agree to disagree instead of mindlessly bashing. kthxbai...

Accepting and moving on is the only viable option now. This game has been out of for 5 years now and interval has been broken the whole time. They were going to nerf demon spark, but Chinese players QQed so that didn't happen. If you want changes you better go write that in Chinese.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Well I pretty much know they are not going to read THIS thread. Still doesn't mean I won't be vocal about it, even if it's fruitless. :P

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well I pretty much know they are not going to read THIS thread. Still doesn't mean I won't be vocal about it, even if it's fruitless. :P

Yeah it doesn't hurt to discuss about it. In fact, this forum would be pretty boring without threads like this.

Hypnos - Raging Tide

Still doesn't mean I won't be vocal about it, even if it's fruitless. :P

That's why I say you are typical whiner and qqer. Tbh, you don't need to repeat, we all know, mods know, GMs know. They just can't do anything about it bc it's not 'their' game, I wouldn't be surprise if this matter was speak during conference between em and beijing but go turned down. Heck, they even refuse to reduce gold price on some items, wat do you expect?

Wizard end game = as high def as BM, with high MDEF, and attack at range, with spike damage and guarantee 1hko crit sandstorm. Also, have seal, sleep, and just for the heck of it, distant shrink, slow etc. I say Wiz not squishy. Ofc you are a moron to make a comparisson only with numbers w/o take into playing skill into consideration.

I wash my hand from this matter.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Equally geared Mage and fist BM both with their important lvl 11 skills are actually relatively well balanced at endgame. A viable 5aps BM will cost you at least 1 billion coin at endgame. Spend that much on a mage and you'll be very broken as well. Hit 100 and find out for yourself.

the problem here is not only PvP.
PvE is still part of this game and the way that , as even you admitted, large amount of coins are made.
Now, I have pretty good gear for my class. Well...basically beside weapon and nirvana gear, I have the best possible.
Can I make 200 mil in 2 weeks soloing TTs? no. Can I solo TT3-3 in less than 1h? no. I'm sorry, but there is no balance whatsoever between 5aps classes and the rest of the pack.
what Chezedude proved with A_Noob is absolutely insane. +50 attk lvl with 5aps. I doesn't matter how balanced classes are with same gear. A caster (cleric/veno/wizard/sin) will never be able to match an archer/bm/sin/barb at 5aps. Simply because the 5aps class will be able to make about 10 times more money than the caster class soloing most of this game's instances. And those money invested in gear will break any kind of balance you think it might exist.

I don't care how much you think and you try to lie yourself that there is some kind of balance, even in PvP, between 5aps classes and the rest of the pack, but I'm telling you, there isn't any. Not when you can be stunlocked and dealt about 17k dmg/sec in pvp. That's equivalent with my gush or pyro doing about 34k on you. How would you like that to happen? that's something I would call balanced: If you're able to deal 17k dmg/sec to me, I should be able to do the same thing to you. Would you love to have our classes "balanced" that way?

Nosey - Lost City

No clue why people are arguing about Bms and pvp since they're actually balanced as class in that area - this was about Assassin which are unbalanced and OP as hell once they reach 4 aps and above and spark in stealth. It really kills of any fair form of 1v1 pvp, as if there ever was one.

Regarding any other class its a major pve problem. Not all classes can be built around 5 aps, so in terms of PVE its extremely unfair and very unbalanced towards casters. Mainly because pve is what makes you gain coins. Coins is what you need to improve gear and enjoy the game in general. Do we want a future PWI where everyone plays 5 aps chars and all casters are extinct unless they're major cash shoppers?

You can spend a couple of hundred million coins and if you picked the right class you can solo any endgame instance in 30-45 min and you can get all the money you ever wanted for the rest of your in-game life - i honestly think thats rather disturbing. People seem to forget that majority of players are on a pve server, this is what affects them the most, they dont participially give a **** about endgame pvp spike dmg.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Define "relatively balanced" in a way that can be measured.

It is clear it's not DPS, and not even psychics btw (which have fast spells and thus the highest DPS of magic classes). You say you're melee, but we're squishy as heck in comparison and can't tank like you do, and don't have as many control skills either.

And the irony of all this is that, while people QQ about mages being overpowered in PvP with good gear, they forgot that farming TTs and stuff is, besides merchanting, where you GET your gear and money from. So no, gear for a mage costs a LOT more than for a 5aps class, seeing as we can't solo TTs like you do, so we're much slower in that aspect.

Yeah, "relatively balanced" alright.

When not even a 40k HP barb can tank a 5aps BM, while it is nearly impossible to kill such a barb with a magic class while having the elemental resistance advantage as well, something should ring a bell should it not?

Why haven't I seen you with a lot of contribution points at the event? Is it because you suck and don't participate knowing that? Heck I haven't even seen LuciferV at a fraction of the top BMs and Sins' scores.

Oh, you say, that's not any proof at all. What's proof then? Your pathetic words? b:chuckle

I know that you actually can't counter what I say, because I don't have to know what I'm saying, I have facts and data to back it up in comparison to your childish insults. I'd really love to see you fare in a job requiring rigurous testing and analysis (like a scientific job or whatever) with that pathetic attitude.

lol, pathetic attitude? You're the one who incessantly QQs and begs for handouts. 'OMG mages are so weak and BMs are so OP QQQQ' Level up and learn how to play your class. Of course they're OP to you PvP cause a BM needs to be 95+ to hit 5aps. You're still a nub.

Listen to yourself. I have not cried or whined about anything, yet you do often. You're one of the noob instant gratification complainers, yet your posts are shallow and always filled with trite verbiage separated with only your insulting attitude, your inability to see the larger picture and some real close minded idealistic views based on how horribly you must play your class or the fact that you don't even know what your class is like at end-game.

I'll define 'relatively balanced'. I don't have to define the word relatively, I hope. I'm not going to quantify PvP balance, of course you even asking for something like that really shows how much thought you put into your statements, little to none. Balance, I'm sure, is a word that you can actually grasp in this context.

At endgame, PvE balance is far less important than PvP balance. After all, end-game is TW and PvP related, at least on my server... As I've said, any mage that has spent roughly the same amount on their gear as a 5aps BM is just as likely to win a fight as the other.... well how do I know? Duh, I'm already there. I'm a 5aps BM and I have to fight end-game Mages on damn near a daily basis. Get 100, get your lvl 11 skills, learn how to play your class and come back with that knowledge and tell me that there is a PvP imbalance between the classes. Of course I know you can't, and I'm not trying to rub my level or anything in your face, just that you speak a load of ****, but it's not backed with experience. As another user said, you're a troll like Yullk, or just pretty clueless.

I haven't once said that 5aps is unbalanced PvE. Of course, you're just arguing with me because you have no actual opinion or valid experience to justify your ignorant opinioin.

Why don't you go QQ more and post in the suggestion forum about how you want free money handouts, and until you actually have some end-game experience that isn't pserver related, stop trolling until you have a clue on what you're really talking about.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the problem here is not only PvP.
PvE is still part of this game and the way that , as even you admitted, large amount of coins are made.
Now, I have pretty good gear for my class. Well...basically beside weapon and nirvana gear, I have the best possible.
Can I make 200 mil in 2 weeks soloing TTs? no. Can I solo TT3-3 in less than 1h? no. I'm sorry, but there is no balance whatsoever between 5aps classes and the rest of the pack.
what Chezedude proved with A_Noob is absolutely insane. +50 attk lvl with 5aps.

+50 atk lvl? Where are you reading that BS. Even with full nirvana and fully DoT sharded, nobody is going to get +50 atk levels without Warsoul except for a Psychic. If you're talking about Warsoul, nobody on PWI has Warsoul, stop being delusional.

I doesn't matter how balanced classes are with same gear. A caster (cleric/veno/wizard/sin) will never be able to match an archer/bm/sin/barb at 5aps. Simply because the 5aps class will be able to make about 10 times more money than the caster class soloing most of this game's instances. And those money invested in gear will break any kind of balance you think it might exist.

Yes, it does matter how balanced classes with equal gear. That's like saying a lvl 100 BM should be able to fight a mage with +12 Nirvana and +6 gears with NPC weapons and armor and have a reasonable chance to win. You're delusional.

A mage with +10 Nirvana and +5 gears can and will easily kill most people in PvP. Hell, I have 9.1k hp and +!0 claws, and mages with +10 or higher NP or Nirvana wands are hard to kill and I often die to them.

Perhaps you should just learn how to play your class?

I don't care how much you think and you try to lie yourself that there is some kind of balance, even in PvP, between 5aps classes and the rest of the pack, but I'm telling you, there isn't any. Not when you can be stunlocked and dealt about 17k dmg/sec in pvp. That's equivalent with my gush or pyro doing about 34k on you. How would you like that to happen? that's something I would call balanced: If you're able to deal 17k dmg/sec to me, I should be able to do the same thing to you. Would you love to have our classes "balanced" that way?

There you go, talking out your butt like you actually have something to say. No, that's not like gush or pyro doing 34k on someone. Your ultis can one-shot any class in the game.... and you should be using Frenzy and Extreme Poison in combination with your Sutra'd skills.

If you can't kill a 5aps BM most of the time, it means you have either **** gears or you don't know how to play your class. Sounds like you suffer a bit of both.

At end-game, you can one shot me. I can hardly do that to you. Of course, I don't expect you to know how to PvP, otherwise you'd say like most wizards, 5aps doesn't mean anything, you can usually kill a bm, period.

truekossy

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

+50 atk lvl? Where are you reading that BS. Even with full nirvana and fully DoT sharded, nobody is going to get +50 atk levels without Warsoul except for a Psychic. If you're talking about Warsoul, nobody on PWI has Warsoul, stop being delusional.

Max chill = Attack level + 30.
Toss in Frenzy and we have 50
Alternatively, toss in 20 attack level shards and, again, we have 50.
Heck, for PvE we can use the dominance blessing and only 10 attack level shards.
Or better yet, we can use the attendance blessing and 14 attack level shards for PvP
Or how abut chill + frenzy + blessing + having all gear socketed with attack level shards?



Now what was that about only Psychics being able to get 50 attack levels without warsoul? Because even a non-tideborn can get attack level +50 without warsoul is they use shards, attendance blessing, and frenzy. Tideborn just have the option of not using frenzy to get there.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

truekossy wrote: »

Max chill = Attack level + 30.
Toss in Frenzy and we have 50
Alternatively, toss in 20 attack level shards and, again, we have 50.
Heck, for PvE we can use the dominance blessing and only 10 attack level shards.
Or better yet, we can use the attendance blessing and 14 attack level shards for PvP
Or how abut chill + frenzy + blessing + having all gear socketed with attack level shards?



Now what was that about only Psychics being able to get 50 attack levels without warsoul? Because even a non-tideborn can get attack level +50 without warsoul is they use shards, attendance blessing, and frenzy. Tideborn just have the option of not using frenzy to get there.

OK, sins can do that as well. Perhaps I should have just said Tideborn, cause I'm not all that familiar with that race.

I'll restate that +50 attack levels can't be maintained for more than 8 seconds.

OMG, I'm invincible and invulnerable to all attacks all the time!
(as long as I can immune pot and it's not on cooldown)

hint: you can do that too. lol

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Hey Michael since you so love that "instant gratification" excuse let's make a deal. When I'll be able to solo TTs as fast as BMs to "work hard" for my gear and get profits, then you can start. Until then shut up, because your "work" is one of the EASIEST there is in the game. Even if you get a squad (when you can just solo) you still get first pick being the tank anyway.

I'm not listening to spoiled people in regards to "hard work" ijs.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hey Michael since you so love that "instant gratification" excuse let's make a deal. When I'll be able to solo TTs as fast as BMs to "work hard" for my gear and get profits, then you can start. Until then shut up, because your "work" is one of the EASIEST there is in the game. Even if you get a squad (when you can just solo) you still get first pick being the tank anyway.

I'm not listening to spoiled people in regards to "hard work" ijs.

Hey, as soon as I can one-shot an end-game wizard or 5aps them to death before they have time to absolute domain, immune pot, distance shrink away, seal frenzy sutra BIDS me, I'll listen to you as well.

(btw, I've never said there wasn't an inbalance in PvE, ty for taking me out of context yet again)

Also, try some instant channeling pots in PvP. You might like it. :P

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Dude, you told me I want instant gratification. Isn't that PvE? I mean, where do you "work hard" for your gears or levels? In PvP? Seriously make some sense.

Asheera - Raging Tide

Michael problem is PvE balance influences PvP. Even if equally geared BMs and wizards are balanced in PvP, BMs have a far easier job soloing and getting money/gears than wizards. So if you see them equally geared it means either the BM was lazier, worked less, or charged less zen. In other words that BM sucks compared to the wizard ijs.

(unless both of them have "max" gears +12 on everything and best possible pieces... kinda unlikely though)

Asperitas - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hey Michael since you so love that "instant gratification" excuse let's make a deal. When I'll be able to solo TTs as fast as BMs to "work hard" for my gear and get profits, then you can start. Until then shut up, because your "work" is one of the EASIEST there is in the game. Even if you get a squad (when you can just solo) you still get first pick being the tank anyway.

I'm not listening to spoiled people in regards to "hard work" ijs.

Let me get this right. You're saying...

To get 5 aps, you good gear.
To get good gear, you need lots of money.
To get lots of money, you need to farm lots of TT.
To farm TT really fast, you need 5 aps...wait WHAT?

That looks a little contradictory right there. You need 5 aps to farm TT really quickly, but you need to farm TT to get 5 aps.

I'm confused.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Dude, you told me I want instant gratification. Isn't that PvE? I mean, where do you "work hard" for your gears or levels? In PvP? Seriously make some sense.

Where do I work hard for my gears? lol. Running lunar every couple of days for 6+ hours at a time for like 3 weeks before lunar was nerfed (edit: come to think of it, I think it took closer to 2 months) ? I farmed one piece of gear. lol I didn't have 3 pieces of 99 gear till I was 101 and double drop events started. My Nirvana pants? I just looked at the guild spreadsheet and I've done 143 guild Nirvana runs, which has given me one piece and 10% towards a second piece. My scroll of tome? 200m in coin which I farmed 3-3 for nearly all of the last two 2x events to pay for? Hard work? You know nothing of hard work in-game.

b:bye

BTW, I went thread digging and here is what I thought of when you wanted me to define 'relatively balanced'... someone tried to quantify PvP balance... it's worth a lol or two :P

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=684632

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Michael problem is PvE balance influences PvP. Even if equally geared BMs and wizards are balanced in PvP, BMs have a far easier job soloing and getting money/gears than wizards. So if you see them equally geared it means either the BM was lazier, worked less, or charged less zen. In other words that BM sucks compared to the wizard ijs.

(unless both of them have "max" gears +12 on everything and best possible pieces... kinda unlikely though)

Yes, you do have a valid point there, however you don't easily get to 5aps and by the time a BM gets there, their gear is pretty much complete except for refines. Read the other poster who responded to you. If you put the effort into farming your own gear that I did mine (way before I was even a fist/claw users) you could have Rank 8. When I started farming I was a pure-axe build. As i farmed, I gained interval, I didn't magically start with it. I wish I could have, and I won't deny that as I gained interval it helped me farm easier, however if you farm and use the profit to improve your gear, farming will become easier to you.

Look at RedsRose. Her and X (without the aide of a 5aps BM) both farmed Rank 8 in a couple of 2x events over the span of a couple of months. You can do the same if you put time into making a regular HH squad and are willing to spend the time to farm it. Get 2-3 people, farm 2-2 for dust and touch. Do that 4 or 5 times a day. In a couple of weeks you'll have made 100m+. Use that money to refine your weapon and gear, and in a few months you can easily farm +10 on your weapon or +5/+6 everything else.

What do I do with my 5aps? I help guildies farm gear. A lot. Just in my runs, I've easily farmed enough for a dozen chests and legs... and probably a half dozen boots on called runs for guildies. Many times I go into an instance and all the mats are already called, because I don't care, 5aps was the pinnacle of reaching end-game gear. I'm done.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Most of the anti-fist people are confused in what makes it OP, and a few I'm almost positive have veno alts that is causing the hystrionics. They are also very short-sighted, and only see the now. Read back through past forum posts by them, and you'll see their definition of end game is always current, and they want balancing for that and that alone. Not realising it is different in just 6 months from now. Though they really should make claw/fist BM only now, to prevent bad things down the line.

The Tideborn expansion really screwed things up big time. Think of the economy pre-packs, and the economy 6 months after. Before have 10+ mil was pretty good, but 6 months after packs people are talking about a build that costs 500mil+ to make as OP. People always talked about warsoul weapons as being so far off, but packs have made them very likely to show up in pretty decent amount in just a year from now.

Before fists/claws had good balance, on BMs anyways. We basically had worthless warsoul weaponry. 3.33 would hit 5 demon sparked, which is +50% damage. Warsoul would hit 3.33 sparked, with a 50 ATK lvl for +50% damage. In short, our warsoul weapon was pretty much **** since we'd lose chi for a few extra crit points or max damage. Really not a large power jump in any fashion.

However, casters no matter what will enjoy a +50% power boost with their warsoul weapon, which would once more have a major power shift effect in both PvE and PvP. The only thing changing that boost compared to BMs, was the inclusion of yet another -int armor in the form of Nirvana pants. Now warsouls have a use, but I wonder if they considered how it would affect over-all balance.

So my question is this: have any of these short-sighted posters actually considered the effect of a wizzie end game with a warsoul weapon, when comparing them to a 5 APS BM with 3.33 base APS? And trying to use the excuse of warsouls being unrealistic, get real. The rate at which coin is accumulating is increasing, as evidenced by how many already have full Nirvana gear with +10-12 refines. And that is not even a year after packs came out, barely over half a year after TB came out. Yes, many wizzies who kept believing they were going to be OP gods as their forum posted for so long at 90+ instantly might be disappointed they have longer to go. But when we're being compared with nearly a billion coins worth of gear + refines against a run of the mill wizzie for power difference, it should be kinda obvious the higher investment would win. If it didn't, something is wrong.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

rank8 on a caster cannot be compared with 5aps.
Is much harder to farm and caster still needs the best gear in game to be able to match the 5aps.
Then it comes to refines.
And that's where the game ends. A caster can't produce the coins as fast as a 5aps. A whole squad of rank8 casters can't match the DPS of a 5aps.

yeah, i get u 5aps guys, you're defending your "hard work", but W T F? at 2.33 aps an archer can do about 4 times the DPS he's capable with a bow. Archer is already recognized and the higest DPS class, so , at 2.33 , witch costs basically nothing to achieve, the DPS jumped 4 times. I have a scroll of tome, 2 lunar rings, gold TT, lunar weapon +10....etc,etc. best gear in game for caster beside rank8 and nirvana. Can I match someone with same gear at 5aps? no. Yeah, there are ways to counter a ninja attack, but in the end I will run out of genie skills + control skills in cooldown + pots in cooldown. And at that point, the fight becomes a point and click for the 5aps. If I get stunned, the fight is over before stun wears off.

You guys really think that having 5aps is fair even in PvP? really? I don't know what are you smoking, but that must be some pretty ***ked up sh*t right there. You have the ability to stunlock/range stun(freeze)/teleport stun, seal, HF + a genie skill that can almost oneshot a robe. Now you're defending a 5aps build that's absolutely overpowered in PvE and makes PvP for you a point and click?

Really?

Asperitas - Lost City

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

rank8 on a caster cannot be compared with 5aps.
Is much harder to farm and caster still needs the best gear in game to be able to match the 5aps.
Then it comes to refines.
And that's where the game ends. A caster can't produce the coins as fast as a 5aps. A whole squad of rank8 casters can't match the DPS of a 5aps.

yeah, i get u 5aps guys, you're defending your "hard work", but W T F? at 2.33 aps an archer can do about 4 times the DPS he's capable with a bow. Archer is already recognized and the higest DPS class, so , at 2.33 , witch costs basically nothing to achieve, the DPS jumped 4 times. I have a scroll of tome, 2 lunar rings, gold TT, lunar weapon +10....etc,etc. best gear in game for caster beside rank8 and nirvana. Can I match someone with same gear at 5aps? no. Yeah, there are ways to counter a ninja attack, but in the end I will run out of genie skills + control skills in cooldown + pots in cooldown. And at that point, the fight becomes a point and click for the 5aps. If I get stunned, the fight is over before stun wears off.

You guys really think that having 5aps is fair even in PvP? really? I don't know what are you smoking, but that must be some pretty ***ked up sh*t right there. You have the ability to stunlock/range stun(freeze)/teleport stun, seal, HF + a genie skill that can almost oneshot a robe. Now you're defending a 5aps build that's absolutely overpowered in PvE and makes PvP for you a point and click?

Really?

Once again, I'll reiterate. I've never argued it's balanced in PVE. That's just my opinion.

But really? PVP? Do you think oneshotting me from 20m away is fair? Do you think ticking my charm with a gush is fair? Or having 25k defense as a robe class is fair? Or 10k hp unbuffed? That's just as OP as anything else. You really think we can kill people without 5aps in PVP? And for that idiot who said we can solo 40k hp barbs, yeah I don't think so. Not unless you're ganging him a couple others who are throwing dragons and tangling mire.

I suppose you liked it better when we were all vit-axe BMs because the only way we could kill you was pray to god for a zerk-crit eh?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

no, the way to kill me was to have enough skill to be able to pull a stunlock out of your ****.
Now every nub with a little cash can roar and 5aps a robe to death.

And if a gush ticks your charm, you either suck or have the wrong marow.

25k def on a robe? get a grip.

Asperitas - Lost City

Ever been hit by a gush for 4k? That's pretty much a charm tick to a lot of people.

And ever heard of Ehee? Or Elayne? Yeah I'm sure stunlocking them with axes will do a fat load of good.

Telarith - Sanctuary

As soon as people begin making up numbers that don't exist to prove a point of view they have, I stop taking them seriously. 2.33 APS and the X4 archer damage just kinda went special in all ways possible. Brigid did the same thing with their 'one 5 APSer soloing a boss in 2 mins that takes a full squad 10 mins' ****. If you compare a billion+ (full -int gear, ranked 8 chest, and +10 all refines easily over 1 bill), against a gimpy DD group with little or no refines, duh there is a difference. But a full squad of quality DDs with the same amount invested would easily beat a 5 APSer's time. From now on, people must know damage formula and actually do a comparison based in reality to be able to post an opinion that will be acknowledged as existing.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

says the lvl 77

you have no idea what you're talking about.

and yes, x4 from having 2.33 is true. Tested by a friend. Not 89 yet, but I guess the ratio will still hold even after that, don't see any reasons why not.

And no, no squad with good DDs can beat a permasparked 5aps. There is no way of doing that.
Just to take an example, a permasparked 5aps does about 17k dmg/sec, counting in the 30% crit (5 hits of 2.5k, + add a another additional 5k from crits). ( look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrFy2GTEfCE&feature=related miute 3.17 for damage reference)
On a TT boss I do in average 3.4k dmg every 2 secons with gush/pyro spam. That's equivalent to 1.7k dmg sec.
So, you basically need 10 caster DDs with at least a +10 lunar weapon to keep up with a permasparked 5aps.

Now, of course I can spark, but BM can HF and also use Fists with decrease HP/archer can sharpen tooth. There goes another 15% advantage

go play somewhere else, this is way beyond your understanding of this game.


LE: just a little bit more additional info:

This is chezedude's Sin. As you can see, he has 5 aps without demon spark or anything, just pure gear.

Now if an equally equipped caster (wizard or cleric or psy) are so ***king balanced endgame, why did this guys went on with the 5aps classes?

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Where do I work hard for my gears? lol. Running lunar every couple of days for 6+ hours at a time for like 3 weeks before lunar was nerfed (edit: come to think of it, I think it took closer to 2 months) ? I farmed one piece of gear. lol I didn't have 3 pieces of 99 gear till I was 101 and double drop events started. My Nirvana pants? I just looked at the guild spreadsheet and I've done 143 guild Nirvana runs, which has given me one piece and 10% towards a second piece. My scroll of tome? 200m in coin which I farmed 3-3 for nearly all of the last two 2x events to pay for? Hard work? You know nothing of hard work in-game.

What don't you get? It would take me not just 4 times longer due to lower DPS but divide that by a squad cause I cannot solo-tank like you and probably would get last pick anyway so that's at least 8 times slower than you with a 2 member squad, which more realistically would be at least 3 (that's 12 times slower or so).

Seriously? Are you telling me I shouldn't be complaining? How would you feel if you had your salary 8 or 12 times as lower as another person? Would you take advices from that person regarding hard work? That's why I don't really care for your hard working advices.

And not even talking about 5aps yet btw, but Ursa's 2.33 aps she mentioned which is not hard to achieve. 5aps would simply be insane in comparison, more than 10 times or so.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

And for that idiot who said we can solo 40k hp barbs, yeah I don't think so.

You "don't think so", but I know for a fact because it freaking happened on my server. The biggest cashshopped barb here (you could guess from the HP) tried to tank an uber BM's 5aps spark and failed miserably. For the people who were outside it seemed almost like a one-shot, so it must have lasted pretty damn a few seconds.

If you say, barb shouldn't have tried to tank, I'm pretty sure YOU would have tried to tank it too, based on your "not believing" the DPS of a 5 aps fist BM. b:chuckle He actually thought he could tank. But you do realize, a freeze from Occult Ice or a stun would make him have to tank it right?

I would even mention names but heck I'm not allowed am I?

Keep having your head in the sand though. I'm sure it helps.

Myriad_ - Lost City

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

LE: just a little bit more additional info:

This is chezedude's Sin. As you can see, he has 5 aps without demon spark or anything, just pure gear.

Now if an equally equipped caster (wizard or cleric or psy) are so ***king balanced endgame, why did this guys went on with the 5aps classes?

LOL, just LOL. 5aps without anything. lolol.
Who said sins were not OP lol? Seriously nerf that ****, it's just absolutely ridiculous. 5aps is objectively broken and OP, the dps is just too monstruous, whoever says it's not is not facing the truth. And nerf the sins too plx

Ursa - Dreamweaver

did you saw the attk lvl too?
Defenses are messed up due to frenzy, but if we take out frenzy, it's a +30 attk lvl
add a blessing and you have +40 attk lvl