Behold the most OP scenario

Asheera - Raging Tide

Well if you thought a 5 aps BM is already overpowered and scary take a look at this:

Sin with:

-0.15 from Nirvana recasted daggers, putting starting interval at 0.65

-0.1 from rank 8 top
-0.1 from TT99 LA wrists
-0.05 from Nirvana LA Legs
-0.05 from TT99 LA set bonus (boots + wrists)
-0.05 from TT99 HA set bonus (necklace + belt)
-0.05 from Lunar Robe
-0.05 from Love: Up and Down

=0.2 interval (5 atk/sec with daggers no demon spark!)

+5 attack level from Nirvana 2 set bonus (Head + Legs)


Now...

Demon Chill of the Deep only reduces by 70%... 0.2 * 1.7 = 0.34

If this is rounded down to nearest interval NOW, then we'll get 0.3 which means 3.33 atk/sec

With Demon Spark it becomes 5 atk/sec with +30 atk levels from CotD........

If it's not rounded down and CotD applies on 0.34, then attack speed will be 0.25 which is 4 atk/sec... still better than 5 atk/sec no CotD by a bit



If you thought fist BMs were OP think again. Now I didn't make this only to show the imbalance but also to suggest some nerf. It's very simple too, limit atk/sec to 3 instead of 5. This will make 3 atk/sec sins with CotD a bit weaker than 5 atk/sec fist BMs atm... and BMs will also get a nerf of course but it's not an outrage... since when are BMs supposed to be best single target DDs? They use Heavy Armor, can use lots of weapons for great AoEs, etc... giving them best single target DD was a mistake in the first place, at least now they'll closer to archers and casters while sins will still be the best, but this 'best' won't even be as good as fist BMs atm. So imo pretty good solution to reduce all this ridiculous imbalance that is at the moment with stacking -interval.

Olba - Sanctuary

... I would believe that the separate attack speed buffs don't work that way.

Also, reduction by 70% is not the same as multiplication by 1.7.

Also, you do realize that in practice, getting -0.15 interval on your daggers is just about impossible? Or when was the last time you saw -18% channeling rings or -0.15 interval wristguards? It's the same thing. Add to that any specific additional mod, such as advanced sacrificial strike, and you're probably looking at odds similar to winning a lottery or being able to get to +12 with 12 mirages.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

believe cheze's assasin alrdy showed that scenario with 5 aps and like 40 attack lvls.

Hypnos - Raging Tide

...how is there a nirv dagger with -0.15?

@Heart: 50atk lvl >.<

Fliiick - Heavens Tear

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

...how is there a nirv dagger with -0.15?

@Heart: 50atk lvl >.<

Blue stat add-ons:

-0.05 interval
-0.10 interval

I'm guessing

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

giving them best single target DD was a mistake in the first place

I'll tell you what was a real mistake. Allowing all classes to use fists.
A Cleric could get 5 attacks/s with the right stats and equipments + fists. Any class can essentially be this "OP" single target DD, but people cry out for BM nerf just because it adds to our arsenal of capabilities. Boohoo.

If you want Sins nerfed don't drag BMs into it...

Also, any class that has that kind of money put into it will be OP. How many people do you see running around with that kind of set up? I like my fast attack rate tyvm, and I'd hate getting hit with a nerf bat because handful of people had too much money to spend.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I like my fast attack rate tyvm, and I'd hate getting hit with a nerf bat because handful of people had too much money to spend.

In other words, you like being on par with magic classes who NEED to spend a lot just to compete with you probably (no chance in hell against a properly geared BM), while if you had spent the same you would be "like the handful of people who had too much money to spend".

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

In other words, you like being on par with magic classes who NEED to spend a lot just to compete with you probably (no chance in hell against a properly geared BM), while if you had spent the same you would be "like the handful of people who had too much money to spend".

I was talking about the Sin setup, requiring 2 items in addition to what a 5 aps BM usually wears; rank 8 top and nirvana leggings, which probably double the price of a regular 5 aps set up (save the "lucky" Nirvana daggers that came out with -0.15 interval).

Devoted - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

In other words, you like being on par with magic classes who NEED to spend a lot just to compete with you probably (no chance in hell against a properly geared BM), while if you had spent the same you would be "like the handful of people who had too much money to spend".

Because getting 5 attack speed and decent enough hp to survive is cheap. lol. With the gear my bm has waiting at 100 I could have got rank8 and +6 armors on my mage.

Islamey - Dreamweaver

believe cheze's assasin alrdy showed that scenario with 5 aps and like 40 attack lvls.

That was fists + frenzy. Not daggers. and it was 50 attack lvls (frenzy +20)

Asheera - Raging Tide

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also, reduction by 70% is not the same as multiplication by 1.7.

It is, in dev's words. 100% reduction of Chill of the Deep only halves your attack rate, instead of making you unable to attack as it should be (or reduction to slowest possible)

About the -0.15... yes it's two stats, one -0.1 the other -0.05... I don't remember where but I read it can be possible since Nirvana recast has a chance of getting stats from a small "pool" so it shouldn't be that hard.


And no I do not want only sins nerfed but all the 5 atk/sec things.. even BMs are already OP like that but it seems sins with the best -interval gear possible will be even worse lmao

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

In other words, you like being on par with magic classes who NEED to spend a lot just to compete with you probably (no chance in hell against a properly geared BM), while if you had spent the same you would be "like the handful of people who had too much money to spend".

Equally geared Mage and fist BM both with their important lvl 11 skills are actually relatively well balanced at endgame. A viable 5aps BM will cost you at least 1 billion coin at endgame. Spend that much on a mage and you'll be very broken as well. Hit 100 and find out for yourself.

Hypnos - Raging Tide

Try ignore Borsux, he doesn't know half of wat he saying, treat him like Yulk, your typical whiner, qqer.

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

About the -0.15... yes it's two stats, one -0.1 the other -0.05... I don't remember where but I read it can be possible since Nirvana recast has a chance of getting stats from a small "pool" so it shouldn't be that hard.

I might be wrong since I've never done anything Nirvana, but only Barrier Thorn-Nirvana has -0.1 (and the addons are fixed), when you recast it, it loses -0.1. And if what I'm seeing on pwdatabase is accurate,

Maximum Physical Attack +106
Maximum Physical Attack +130
Interval Between Hits -0.05 seconds
Range +1
HP: +350
Strength +18~19
Dexterity +18~19
Magic +18~19
Vitality +18~19
Critical Hit Rate +1%
Critical Hit Rate +2%
Accuracy +30%
Atk. Level +1
Atk. Level +2
Atk. Level +3
Def. Level +2

You'd need to get -0.05 for all 3 add-ons, which is highly unlikely.

Hypnos - Raging Tide

Unique Addon: Probability to have an unique addon: 100%
Critical Hit Rate +3%
Critical Hit Rate +4%
Sacrificial Strike: Has a chance to inflict double damage at the cost of losing 5% HP.
God of Frenzy: A blessed frenzy warrior! Has a higher chance to deal double damage. Costs 5% Max HP

=>That give you only 2 add-ons for -int left which bring you to -0.1 max
And afaik, you can't get more than one -int add-on on weapon since long ago, am I wrong? =/

Asheera - Raging Tide

Oh did that change?

I remember for sure reading somewhere there was -0.1 int AND -0.05 as possible addons.

I will even dig this information to find out what it's about if needed but kinda busy atm.

Olba - Sanctuary

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Unique Addon: Probability to have an unique addon: 100%
Critical Hit Rate +3%
Critical Hit Rate +4%
Sacrificial Strike: Has a chance to inflict double damage at the cost of losing 5% HP.
God of Frenzy: A blessed frenzy warrior! Has a higher chance to deal double damage. Costs 5% Max HP

=>That give you only 2 add-ons for -int left which bring you to -0.1 max
And afaik, you can't get more than one -int add-on on weapon since long ago, am I wrong? =/

The Unique Add-on is ADDITIONAL to the 3 you already get on it.

As for getting more than one mod, people say it's possible. Personally though, I've never seen any evidence of this, except people saying that it has happened with OHT items, which, again, I've never seen.

And even if it was possible, the probabilities of that happening would be ridiculously low, so presenting that as an "OP" scenario is alike to presenting lottery as a "Get Rich Quick" plan.

Brigid - Harshlands

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

The Unique Add-on is ADDITIONAL to the 3 you already get on it.

As for getting more than one mod, people say it's possible. Personally though, I've never seen any evidence of this, except people saying that it has happened with OHT items, which, again, I've never seen.

And even if it was possible, the probabilities of that happening would be ridiculously low, so presenting that as an "OP" scenario is alike to presenting lottery as a "Get Rich Quick" plan.

Actually, I believe it's only one unique addon, and 2 normal ones. At least, that's what all of the recast Nirvana weapons I've seen have had.

More than one of the same mod is possible. A few weeks back I saw a pair of OHT Heavy Armor bracers with 2 x -0.05 interval between hits modifiers on sale.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

b:bye

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=746582

Asheera - Raging Tide

Ok ok look:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=694572

I quote:

Trawne - Lost City wrote: »

nirvana have higher minimum, rank 6 much higher maximum

both refine the same.

rank6 aren't out yet

1st stage nirvana aren't really better than rank6

recast nirvana with -.1 and zerk = b:shocked


you can also potentially get 2 of the following:

Maximum Physical Attack +106
Maximum Physical Attack +130
Interval Between Hits -0.05 seconds
Interval Between Hits -0.1 seconds (not shown on pwdatabase but is possible. unsure what else may be possible)
Range +1
HP: +350
Strength +18~19
Dexterity +18~19
Magic +18~19
Vitality +18~19
Critical Hit Rate +1%
Critical Hit Rate +2%
Accuracy +30%
Atk. Level +1
Atk. Level +2
Atk. Level +3
Def. Level +2

and one of these:
Critical Hit Rate +3%
Critical Hit Rate +4%
Sacrificial Strike: Has a chance to inflict double damage
at the cost of losing 5% HP.
God of Frenzy: A blessed frenzy warrior! Has a higher chance to deal double damage.
　　　　Costs 5% Max HP.

you could get 3 attack levels, -.1 int and zerk.

Then later when he was asked if it's really possible another reply:

Trawne - Lost City wrote: »

as to -.1 int yes you can people have it. search for it.

This is interesting, I tried to find something but unsuccessful... so if someone knows please share, or all of you sins out there burning with curiosity start searching XD I have to go to sleep now QQ

Olba - Sanctuary

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok ok look:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=694572

I quote:Then later when he was asked if it's really possible another reply:This is interesting, I tried to find something but unsuccessful... so if someone knows please share, or all of you sins out there burning with curiosity start searching XD I have to go to sleep now QQ

Even if that were the case, you'd still have to reroll the dagger a ridiculous amount of times to get both of those mods AND the advanced sacrificial strike. And even though that is possible, it's implausible.

And besides, for all that you know, the -0.1 could just be the -0.05 applied twice.

Telarith - Sanctuary

The post stating -.1 is possible as an add might be due to a photoshopped picture of fists that were posted on the forum a while back. They had advanced soul shatter, and double -.1 adds as their 3 stats. Would be ridiculously over-powered if possible, though having blade instead of that would end up being the most OP weapon of all.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Equally geared Mage and fist BM both with their important lvl 11 skills are actually relatively well balanced at endgame.

Define "relatively balanced" in a way that can be measured.

It is clear it's not DPS, and not even psychics btw (which have fast spells and thus the highest DPS of magic classes). You say you're melee, but we're squishy as heck in comparison and can't tank like you do, and don't have as many control skills either.

And the irony of all this is that, while people QQ about mages being overpowered in PvP with good gear, they forgot that farming TTs and stuff is, besides merchanting, where you GET your gear and money from. So no, gear for a mage costs a LOT more than for a 5aps class, seeing as we can't solo TTs like you do, so we're much slower in that aspect.

Yeah, "relatively balanced" alright.

When not even a 40k HP barb can tank a 5aps BM, while it is nearly impossible to kill such a barb with a magic class while having the elemental resistance advantage as well, something should ring a bell should it not?

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Try ignore Borsux, he doesn't know half of wat he saying, treat him like Yulk, your typical whiner, qqer.

Why haven't I seen you with a lot of contribution points at the event? Is it because you suck and don't participate knowing that? Heck I haven't even seen LuciferV at a fraction of the top BMs and Sins' scores.

Oh, you say, that's not any proof at all. What's proof then? Your pathetic words? b:chuckle

I know that you actually can't counter what I say, because I don't have to know what I'm saying, I have facts and data to back it up in comparison to your childish insults. I'd really love to see you fare in a job requiring rigurous testing and analysis (like a scientific job or whatever) with that pathetic attitude.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Attack speed in general is OP and needs a nerf.

Asheera - Raging Tide

What I find a bit weird is if -.1 is indeed not allowed, why upgrading to next daggers from Barrier Thorn: Nirvana reduce your interval capabilities? O.o

Unless you get 2x -.05 but that's very rare to get

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Yup and to clarify what I meant with contribution points, since taking it the wrong way would make my point invalid. I meant overall points, not per class. Of course, I don't doubt that you can get 1st spot in your class, but that wasn't my point since I was comparing classes.

And the irony is that not even archers, not just magic classes, get that good of contribution in comparison, unless they use fists.

EDIT: sorry my post was meant to come after Rawrgh's, if it doesn't make sense for Asheera's. :P

Shevanel - Sanctuary

I think my biggest argument between -int and -Chan with casters is that while we can still get -50% + Chan is that we still have to face our cast times. Let's see some possible -% cast adds or shards implemented ( lol) into the game.anyone familiar with some fake versions of this game will know of them.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Define "relatively balanced" in a way that can be measured.

It is clear it's not DPS, and not even psychics btw (which have fast spells and thus the highest DPS of magic classes). You say you're melee, but we're squishy as heck in comparison and can't tank like you do, and don't have as many control skills either.

And the irony of all this is that, while people QQ about mages being overpowered in PvP with good gear, they forgot that farming TTs and stuff is, besides merchanting, where you GET your gear and money from. So no, gear for a mage costs a LOT more than for a 5aps class, seeing as we can't solo TTs like you do, so we're much slower in that aspect.

Yeah, "relatively balanced" alright.

When not even a 40k HP barb can tank a 5aps BM, while it is nearly impossible to kill such a barb with a magic class while having the elemental resistance advantage as well, something should ring a bell should it not?


Why haven't I seen you with a lot of contribution points at the event? Is it because you suck and don't participate knowing that? Heck I haven't even seen LuciferV at a fraction of the top BMs and Sins' scores.

Oh, you say, that's not any proof at all. What's proof then? Your pathetic words? b:chuckle

I know that you actually can't counter what I say, because I don't have to know what I'm saying, I have facts and data to back it up in comparison to your childish insults. I'd really love to see you fare in a job requiring rigurous testing and analysis (like a scientific job or whatever) with that pathetic attitude.

Wanting changes = QQ. Anything else you wanna know?

It is obvious that interval is broken. In my opinion that isn't enough for this game. Why not make channeling broken too? Like, make it possible to have instant channeling. Then make stealth genie skill that allows you to be unseen for at least 10 minutes. 15m/s speed in flight for 30 secs sounds nice too. Maybe on land too. Quadruple damage on magic skills and things like that.

In my opinion, interval is broken for a reason. It is to make people spend more money on the game. It seems to work pretty well too.

Oh yeah and about wizards having low DPS, you are somewhat right. However, when you cash shop a lot, wizards win. If you do 50k normal hits, it's not like you should say you don't have any DPS.

In short: in this game, things are supposed to be unbalanced. You are not supposed to make money by grinding/merchanting/farming. You are supposed to cash shop as much as you can.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think my biggest argument between -int and -Chan with casters is that while we can still get -50% + Chan is that we still have to face our cast times. Let's see some possible -% cast adds or shards implemented ( lol) into the game.anyone familiar with some fake versions of this game will know of them.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=746582

Hypnos - Raging Tide

Why haven't I seen you with a lot of contribution points at the event? Is it because you suck and don't participate knowing that?

rage more assworm, the thing is, I accept the fact that -int BM out DPS other classes and move on. I'm content with me stay at #2 among psy during event if I participate while you just discontent and butthurt because, I guess, you can't even place #5 among wizard and you just have to qq about the most obvious stuff. And while on topic, Wizard aren't supposed to out DPS any class in PW except maybe cleric hence, even if they nerf aspd, you will just come up with something like sling archers are OP, nerf plz.

You say you're melee, but we're squishy as heck in comparison

Endgame wizard is anything but squishy. The fact that you say wiz not OP alone prove you don't know wat you talkin. You just ignorant, or extremely stupid to stand there and become a barb wannabe. You are a non factor and know nothing about endgame, stop talking like you know it.

And the irony of all this is that, while people QQ about mages being overpowered in PvP with good gear, they forgot that farming TTs and stuff is, besides merchanting, where you GET your gear and money from. So no, gear for a mage costs a LOT more than for a 5aps class, seeing as we can't solo TTs like you do, so we're much slower in that aspect.

QQ, why am I not surprise. Tbh, people don't solo TT before packs was out and they still doing fine, squads of peeps doing TT for cash and still doing it. You got problem gettin squad for TT? well, clearly no one like you, try reborn anew perharp?

Telarith - Sanctuary

Pretty much anytime someone says a wizzie is squishy, must not know what they end up like at end game. Therefore, their opinion is not based off of knowledge when comparing endgame. The only time a wizzie will be squishy, is when purge is involved. Most people already know how obscene the defenses of a wizard are end game, and is one of the parts that used to generate so many complaints. When a wizzie can tank both physical and magical, and spike past charm, is where the OP comments come from. That is wizzie at end game, with usually only high DPS able to counter it.