Demon Good for pve, Sage good for pvp?

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

It all depends on how you want to play the game. As a sage archer, I don't regret my decision before and I see no reason to switch now. All the aspect of the game that I actually do can be easily done with my current build. I refuse to get claw since I am satisfied with my damage output. And as side effect of 95% of the archers going claw, my bow damage is even greater then anyone with the same refine/gear. While in TW I might not be able to kill as efficiently with regular shots, my stun/take aim has no problem by passing the charm of my targets. In rb my barrage easily out damages 95% of the demon archers (considering only like 5% of the demons has 11 barrage). I don’t really do nirv/tt since I believe it’s easier to afk a cat and buy the mats that I want instead of spending hours and hours farming for that 1 drop and then fighting with 5 other people for it.
The only area I come in to conflict with claw archers is during the nien beast event, which I do maybe like 3-4 times a week. So basically the decision is should I spend 200 mil for a +10 claw to move up from the top 10 to top 5 for the nien beast event?
And finally, if I really wanted that 5 APS, I’ll get off my **** and get that last few levels to get my sin to 9x sin to 99/100. Account stash my archer gear over and own any demon claw archer... of the same refine/gear of course.

Quilue - Sanctuary

because anything, a lvl 1 cleric, can go afk a cat. you can do better things with a 10x archer during your in-game time. a good nirvana squad with other claw users can complete it in about 15min

besides, the whole purpose of claws is for accumulating more wealth. i don't think you'd spend the coin to +10 claws just for that. as long as it does more dps than bow that's probably ok. if you get everything you want without having to farm, then by all means don't go claws.

and aren't you the one who talked about sacrificing strengths for a forest's wisdom not being completely unviable? well 146 str happens to let you wear lunar claws as well.

Zhadi - Archosaur

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

cause everyone cash shops all their gear/refines?
endgame pve= farming 3-3/3-2/nirvana/WB and fist excels on all of those, and fisters can tank all BH(RB one too if youre crazy)

good luck farming up to get great gear with great refines.

In the end, here's a sad truth about PWI:

My wallet > Your Deicides.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

good luck farming up to get great gear with great refines.

In the end, here's a sad truth about PWI:

My wallet > Your Deicides.

yes thank you for your great argument, wallet>sage or demon woohoo now back to relevant things...
and frost/tt100>deicides anyway

Zhadi - Archosaur

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yes thank you for your great argument, wallet>sage or demon woohoo now back to relevant things...
and frost/tt100>deicides anyway

this whole claw **** is irrelevant to this thread to begin with

the question/statement from the beginning was (not verbatim):
since demon > sage for pve, is sage better at pvp?

To begin answering that, we have to consider the fact that demon/sage isn't just defined by their spark... It's the skills... In order to use those skills, we have to use a bow...

My rage/question in the beginning was why the ** did everybody deviate this thread into clawrchers using demon/sage spark for farming when the original question asked absolutely nothing about that?

So, yes, my statement about money-making was irrelevant but so has this whole thread for the past few days.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

this whole claw **** is irrelevant to this thread to begin with

the question/statement from the beginning was (not verbatim):
since demon > sage for pve, is sage better at pvp?

To begin answering that, we have to consider the fact that demon/sage isn't just defined by their spark... It's the skills... In order to use those skills, we have to use a bow...

My rage/question in the beginning was why the ** did everybody deviate this thread into clawrchers using demon/sage spark for farming when the original question asked absolutely nothing about that?

So, yes, my statement about money-making was irrelevant but so has this whole thread for the past few days.

because everyone knows demon > sage for pvp on archers 99% of the time and this is the only topic left

Zhadi - Archosaur

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

because everyone knows demon > sage for pvp on archers 99% of the time and this is the only topic left

i still think theyre fkn stupid

PinkArrow - Heavens Tear

Demon good for everything.
Sage good for somethings.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

i still think theyre fkn stupid

feelings mutual im shure

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

@Kiyoshi u dont have to use lunar+10 to be in top 5, I use my noob ff+6, i easily make over 10k for the event, the only time i drop to top 10 is coz i party with cleric friends. Plz dont tell me to spent 35mil to be able to dd a lot better in pve will sent u broke. with my ff+6 fist.. niv runs is piece cake tbh, i easily out deal any non 5.0 BM. archer using fist is for pve ONLY, whos stupid enough to run into a tw or pvp or cube with just fist.

your argument of.. "if i want 5.0 i will just pimp up my sin to 5.0" 1stly, I yet to see u do it, 2ndly LMAO for us high lvl archer who doesnt have a high lvl sin alt these days, mine is 90+ too. I really dont understand does it cost less than 35mil to get your sin from lvl 1 to 100 u might say yea.. but for the time u spent on lvling sin, ppl would easily farm out those 35mil.

b:chuckle

Etaerc - Lost City

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

i still think theyre fkn stupid

I have to agree with you... Your argument is so sound how can I not?

Kylin_bank - Harshlands

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

5aps sage archer under BB - GAME WIN in PvE.
And starting from there making cash for high refines is just a joke.
In the end, even if demon skills are better suited for PvP, Sage archer wins. Why? because of authonomy and high rate of producing coins. Like in every economy, the most powerfull individual is the one that can have the biggest amount of coins.

so its basicly who charges more wins

Zhadi - Archosaur

Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »

I have to agree with you... Your argument is so sound how can I not?

i know
no need to praise me so much
i have enough people who do that

Zhadi - Archosaur

Kylin_bank - Harshlands wrote: »

so its basicly who charges more wins

basically
these people assume that getting 5 attacks per sec without demon spark is cheap and easy
FALSE....
it's super expensive so GOOD LUCK farming up your 5 atk per sec gear first... -.-

Shirvenus - Heavens Tear

The question of Demon>Sage for pvp comes down to this few points in my opinion. Rule of thumb without as much effort and coin, Demon seems to out damage many Sage archers. I've seen many of them and they perform nicely.

However I've seen "the rare Sage Archers" and to be honest, they seem to hold it down. I think for them, it comes down to working their favorite skills to produce the effect they desire (dead their enemy). I myself chose sage and after refining, crafting and buying certain things, kinda pleased as to what I can do. I've always been a fan to playing the game the way I like and at the same time recieving good advice. My crit% 38-39% as well, compared to demons i know who are like 38-42%.

So : Cheaper upfront cost to Damage Ratio Demon Archer

if you willing to spend the time, fine tune and yes, a little more coin Sage

PS: weird since I don't think I'll play again and making post first time

Meanpie - Lost City

Shirvenus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My crit% 38-39% as well, compared to demons i know who are like 38-42%.

So : Cheaper upfront cost to Damage Ratio Demon Archer

if you willing to spend the time, fine tune and yes, a little more coin Sage

PS: weird since I don't think I'll play again and making post first time

^ This argument is flawed. You can't just say you have 38% crit and most demon archers you know have 38-42%. You are comparing two different archers with different builds/gear. The bottom line is that if you were demon your crit would be 50%. Demon archers get 12% more crit and that's a big deal. I also don't think that spending more coin will make sage any better. If you spend the same amount for either one Demon will still come out on top in PvP.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@Kiyoshi u dont have to use lunar+10 to be in top 5, I use my noob ff+6, i easily make over 10k for the event, the only time i drop to top 10 is coz i party with cleric friends. Plz dont tell me to spent 35mil to be able to dd a lot better in pve will sent u broke. with my ff+6 fist.. niv runs is piece cake tbh, i easily out deal any non 5.0 BM. archer using fist is for pve ONLY, whos stupid enough to run into a tw or pvp or cube with just fist.

your argument of.. "if i want 5.0 i will just pimp up my sin to 5.0" 1stly, I yet to see u do it, 2ndly LMAO for us high lvl archer who doesnt have a high lvl sin alt these days, mine is 90+ too. I really dont understand does it cost less than 35mil to get your sin from lvl 1 to 100 u might say yea.. but for the time u spent on lvling sin, ppl would easily farm out those 35mil.

b:chuckle

I donno... I don't recall ever seeing you in the top 5 any of the times I did the event. All the top 5 I see is always lunar claw archers. Unless of course you do it during TW/CoA times when all the claw archers are elsewhere.
And I am saying that there is no reason for me to spend the 50 mil for lunar claw and the D. Orbs to refine it since I don't do anything that actually require it. These days, I hardly do any PVE content of the game... so there is literally NO reason for me to get some fist/claws. I don't do nirvana or TT or grind... hell I don't even do BH anymore. What I actually do is old HT and marriage quest... which a bow is much better suited (in my perference). Of course you haven't seen me level my sin... cause I don't really care about this game as much as I have before... although with the increased cube experience... I just might do a daily cube run with my sin. I probably been playing PWI for as long as you have... and it already lost its luster. I only showed for like half of the TWs that I been assigned to cause 1. someone signed me up and 2. someone called in real life to remind me. So as you can see... in my sitution... there is no reason for me to get some fist/claws for that 10-20 minute of game play. Of course that may change if I do decide to actually play again... but then again it might not.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

<-not lunar claw, frost fist ftw, top 5 daily 1st a good bit of time

yes fists arent very useful when you only play 10-20 minutes a day, wow ok, heck actually i hear they are useful for some of the MQ stuff

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I donno... I don't recall ever seeing you in the top 5 any of the times I did the event. All the top 5 I see is always lunar claw archers. Unless of course you do it during TW/CoA times when all the claw archers are elsewhere.
And I am saying that there is no reason for me to spend the 50 mil for lunar claw and the D. Orbs to refine it since I don't do anything that actually require it. These days, I hardly do any PVE content of the game... so there is literally NO reason for me to get some fist/claws. I don't do nirvana or TT or grind... hell I don't even do BH anymore. What I actually do is old HT and marriage quest... which a bow is much better suited (in my perference). Of course you haven't seen me level my sin... cause I don't really care about this game as much as I have before... although with the increased cube experience... I just might do a daily cube run with my sin. I probably been playing PWI for as long as you have... and it already lost its luster. I only showed for like half of the TWs that I been assigned to cause 1. someone signed me up and 2. someone called in real life to remind me. So as you can see... in my sitution... there is no reason for me to get some fist/claws for that 10-20 minute of game play. Of course that may change if I do decide to actually play again... but then again it might not.

XD should I post a screen shot of me beating mosz with my 17k to come 1st for archer? b:chuckle he wont happy I guess, anyway my point is.. ff fist with refine.. costed me 35mil, i made double that from nien event, and no I dont play that much at all, most of the time friends just use me as fist dd to push their own score up, it is very rare for me to solo nien. I only know I done nien event when I log on and see all the shards and stuff. Even good geared(weapon) cleric(eg MsE) they only get about 3k for 3rd stage for nien if they solo that's y most of the time u will just see me somewhere in the top 10 XD luv u miuu miuu b:cute.

Oh just so you know, Niv > TT(90%time) > BH

Quilue - Sanctuary

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

no I dont play that much at all, most of the time friends just use me as fist dd to push their own score up, it is very rare for me to solo nien.

heh...so that would be why you're not often in the top 5 b:chuckle

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

I might have to take back what I said about the nien even thing. Did the nien event today solo (usually I dual the event with a veno) with no outside buffs and drago arrows. Finished 4th with lucky points included and all. Even beat some demon claw archers with barb buffs, who normally should easily out dd me. Which lead me to believe nien beast isn't that great of an indicator of total damage output... luck probably play a big part of it. With that being said... my total game play time still does not warrant me getting a fist/claw.

And I don't think fist/claw is even useful at all in marriage quest. Considering that I am married to a veno... nix/arrows will have reach and killed the mobs before I even touch it with melee. And that one hp debuff (auto charm tick) boss... I would rather just stay out of its way. So what it comes down to is would I want to get fist/claw to save that extra 1-2 seconds on other bosses.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

So.. u r comparing solo to other ppl in a squad? LOL so clearly you didnt read my last couple posts b:chuckle

anyway let s see this... Kiyoshi is fat b:thanks well if you dont read my post XD i'm sure u wont see wat i just said :P and i'm sure u wont get offened

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So.. u r comparing solo to other ppl in a squad? LOL so clearly you didnt read my last couple posts b:chuckle

anyway let s see this... Kiyoshi is fat b:thanks well if you dont read my post XD i'm sure u wont see wat i just said :P and i'm sure u wont get offened

I am not sure where you get the comparison from... I merely mention that I went solo instead of a squad this time around. And as solo I scored above claw archers who would normally be expected to score above me. There is no comparison between solo and squad... as I was just trying to mention all the factors in my scoring... such as the arrows that I was using... and the buffs... since all these would affect the amount of points that I get.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Let's put it this way:

YOU = archer with claws

Alt 1 = cleric on follow in squad

Alt 2 = psy on follow in squad

What happens is:

You get heavy packs, doubt you'd reach laced
Alt 1 get laced or tiger head
Alt 2 get laced or tiger head

The contribution is divided evenly. Since alts belong to classes with relatively lower damage output (and thus less contribution needed to be on top of their class list), it's profitable to take them if you're greedy as hell. A clawrcher I know has gotten over 7k contribs for 3 characters. She aint in the top 5 for archers, but she scoring 30 packs lol.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Let's put it this way:

YOU = archer with claws

Alt 1 = cleric on follow in squad

Alt 2 = psy on follow in squad

What happens is:

You get heavy packs, doubt you'd reach laced
Alt 1 get laced or tiger head
Alt 2 get laced or tiger head

The contribution is divided evenly. Since alts belong to classes with relatively lower damage output (and thus less contribution needed to be on top of their class list), it's profitable to take them if you're greedy as hell. A clawrcher I know has gotten over 7k contribs for 3 characters. She aint in the top 5 for archers, but she scoring 30 packs lol.

I prefer 10 Tiger Head + 10 Laced

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am not sure where you get the comparison from... I merely mention that I went solo instead of a squad this time around. And as solo I scored above claw archers who would normally be expected to score above me. There is no comparison between solo and squad... as I was just trying to mention all the factors in my scoring... such as the arrows that I was using... and the buffs... since all these would affect the amount of points that I get.

I said I scored 17k points SOLO, 7k points in squad AND i said even with best cleric dd they score 2-3k points solo.

BUT you are 100% right as you said "not sure where you get comparison from..." you merely mentioned you solo dd beat claw archers that is in a squad.

Try to squad with a cleric and you will understand the score

it will be (10k (me) + 2k cleric I + 3k cleric II ) / 3 = 5k

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I said I scored 17k points SOLO, 7k points in squad AND i said even with best cleric dd they score 2-3k points solo.

BUT you are 100% right as you said "not sure where you get comparison from..." you merely mentioned you solo dd beat claw archers that is in a squad.

Try to squad with a cleric and you will understand the score

it will be (10k (me) + 2k cleric I + 3k cleric II ) / 3 = 5k

I highly doubt every claw archer is squaded with a cleric or is squaded at all. I think luck actually play more of a role in point scoring. I notice that I'll score higher if I go to a boss that dies last. Such as if my boss dies first I would get say 1k points and I might get a few hundred more if i make it to a 2nd boss. But if my boss dies last... I'll get say 2k points.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

b:sweat you will be surprised.. if u r claw/fist and you can get 5.0, friends will luv u for nien event, which i got no problem for it at all to squad with them. Dont believe me.. ask kasmog, he only get 7k points per event.. ask him his score when he solos and you will see wat i mean.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:sweat you will be surprised.. if u r claw/fist and you can get 5.0, friends will luv u for nien event, which i got no problem for it at all to squad with them. Dont believe me.. ask kasmog, he only get 7k points per event.. ask him his score when he solos and you will see wat i mean.

so true,yao and mike are with thier wives they get 10-13k, solo mike gets 20-23
i get 9-13k squad with cleric 16-20k solo

Zhadi - Archosaur

This topic is totally necro'd

please talk about nien event somewhere else

Idk if anybody has noticed, but that event has nothing to do with PvPb:surrender