Demon Good for pve, Sage good for pvp?

Egaenil - Heavens Tear
Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
edited June 2010 in Archer
I'm only talking about end game here.

is sage archer really good for pvp?

I see a lot of ppl saying if you want to be good at pve go sage, but luckly for me at least, i went demon, and who still thinks sage archer is good for pve end game, I mean i put on my fist :P 5.0 easily need me say more?

So if sage archer not good for pve? There must be only 1 reason to pick them. thats pvp? sage archer really that good pvp? on HT top 20 archer all demon

So what s the use of a sage archer? can those sage archer QQ to me?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
Post edited by Egaenil - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This point is kind of dead. I tried to warn people back when choosing culti for archer was a big decision. Then it became 89 took 2-3 weeks of playing so it wasn't a huge deal. Now it's 10 gold and 200 mirages. Not only is the impact of deciding at 89 a joke now but most people know hell is superior. I know of 20+ people who have either PM'd me or I convinced to go hell and not one has told me they regret the decision. That kinda speaks for itself. :x
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    sage pve is nice... 5.0 AND 25% damage reduction, it would be nice in 3-3/WB
    nirvana pants are cheaper then getting the PDEF/DEF lvl/HP needed as demon to overcome that dif
    also damn heavenrage boots.
  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    o.O really sage archer 5.0? plz tell me how much would that cost u?

    demon archer 5.0.. omg so cheap so so SO cheap, the money spent to get sage archer to 5.0 i can use it on planty gears and make them +10

    i mean seriousely.. atm i get 5.0 with cube neck/ws belt for demon with lunar fist :P and i dont have rank 8 and i dont have niv pants :P

    sure u can get 5.0 on sage.. but at wat cost, the money u have to spent.. just for pve? fair enough XD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • Olba - Sanctuary
    Olba - Sanctuary Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    o.O really sage archer 5.0? plz tell me how much would that cost u?

    demon archer 5.0.. omg so cheap so so SO cheap, the money spent to get sage archer to 5.0 i can use it on planty gears and make them +10

    i mean seriousely.. atm i get 5.0 with cube neck/ws belt for demon with lunar fist :P and i dont have rank 8 and i dont have niv pants :P

    sure u can get 5.0 on sage.. but at wat cost, the money u have to spent.. just for pve? fair enough XD

    Actually not, the difference is just -0.1 Interval. And besides, to get a Deicide to hit 5 APS without Demon Spark, you only need -0.4 interval. You get -0.15 from TT99, 0.05 from ornaments, -0.1 from tome and cape. Now, you can get the last 0.1 from Nirvana legs and Rank 4 armor.

    If you already had Rank 8, like chezedude, you wouldn't even need the Nirvana legs.

    In the case of a Demon Archer, you'd be looking at -0.3 interval, probably from TT99 wrist+boots, lionheart ornaments, event tome and event cape.

    So really, the only difference is the Nirvana legs, since Rank 4 at level 100 shouldn't be exactly a tough goal. And believe me, everyone would go for those legs anyway, so effectively, nothing changes.

    Chezedude is pretty much the most known 5 APS Sage Archer and he goes around with Rank 8 and TT100 fists.
    If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.

    Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.
  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    meh tt100 fist = less damage compare to ff

    proc from ff fist stack with spark = less refine, but same damage, not to mention how cheap ff fist is these days

    oh plz dont tell me tome of luv: up and down is so easy to get, u made it sounds like a thing ppl can just buy, sadly on HT u cant buy them even if u got the money (200mil) simply no1 selling it. niv pants, wat happen if i want to farm niv but i want 5.0, so wat u r saying is AFTER invest $2.5k on rank armour OR 250mil on tome and 300mil on niv pants, u can have 5.0 as demon archer

    okie... u do that
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i hate ppl using cash shoppers compare to most of us who dont cash shop, and make it sounds like it's a normal thing, yea u just get all the best gears and u will be fine

    im talking about spenting 100mil for 5.0 demon archer to 600mil sage 5.0
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    meh tt100 fist = less damage compare to ff

    proc from ff fist stack with spark = less refine, but same damage, not to mention how cheap ff fist is these days

    oh plz dont tell me tome of luv: up and down is so easy to get, u made it sounds like a thing ppl can just buy, sadly on HT u cant buy them even if u got the money (200mil) simply no1 selling it. niv pants, wat happen if i want to farm niv but i want 5.0, so wat u r saying is AFTER invest $2.5k on rank armour OR 250mil on tome and 300mil on niv pants, u can have 5.0 as demon archer

    okie... u do that

    Frost fists are good but the G12 don't scale well to high refines. The attack bonus is 50% weapon attack and demon sparked that is 7% more than base spark damage. Thats not enough to catch up to deicide/tt100 after +5 or so refine. The heal proc helps when soloing tho.

    TT100 has high damage mobs but refine is only as G13. Deicide has a G15 refine although it only surpasses TT100 in damage at around +11 or +12. Deicides can be turned into Regicides so I went with those.
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  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    get pan gu, 150mil
    i have never shopped i got up/down for 200, yes it was hard to find, 3 scripts has been easier
    stop spending money on fashion end gear gets easier :P
    nirv pants uncannys<600k makes em 130mil+tt99
    farmed more then that in this past 2x
    so <300mil for 25% less damage taken, hmm to get +25% survivability bonus from gear...yah more expensive
    i lurve my frost fist but tt100 does do more damage,
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well the equivalent rank 8 demon can ditch the cape and tt99 ornaments and get Wings of Cloudcharger, Cube neck, and Warsong Belt. I'm not sure if thats enough to makeup the 25% damage reduction but it may be close?
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  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    r u kidding me niv pants for 130mil? how about i pay u to make me one?

    lets say niv crsytals say they r 500k, (atm HT is 560k to buy) thats (100+150) x 0.5 = 125mil, so you can be sure u will have the luck to get 4 sockets for 2nd recast? Coz i dont, so 4 sockets require 300-400 gold in chirum stones or watever they called, gold 400k atm, so u r looking at another 160mil, so roughly totaly cost for niv pants is 300mil

    tome 200mil if you can find ppl sell it more like 220-250, so okie im off by 100mil not 600mil, u need 500mil to be 5.0 for sage archer

    so according to u Mosz u got tome for 200mil, niv pants for 130mil.. and all that is <300mil.. fair enough..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    wtf I said you can get pan gu, creator for ~150mil(3x script of fate) HINT is has -.05 interval and crit, you "only" loose 12 useful stat points
    150+130<300, yes
    and 4th socket, well.um.ok as if that hp difference in loosing a 4th sock doesnt get made up in refine bonus pretty much(at +10 its a difference of 201 HP refine bonus so ya.. 49% more then a vit stone gained from the socket)
    and since youre so great at math figure out how demon archer can get 25% damage reduction
    3% cube 3% warsong 3% cape , thats 9% and already 160mil+
  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    1stly, who said vit stones for archer, archer hitting stuff low as it is now, sif not go all all out for attack

    as for 4th socket, sif not go all out for end game gear, worked so hard for so long, why go cheap on the last bit. at +10 yeas the hp difference between cube necklace and none is obviouse, as for tanking, if u +10ed items, sif u cant tank the boss out.

    once again u proved my point, demon archer is way cheaper and faster to obtain 5.0
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    yes demon is cheaper to get 5.0 of course i wasnt against that arguement
    my arguement was its cheaper to get higher survivability as a tanker with same attack speed as sage
    and if you go full attack shards this just proves my point even more

    enjoy 5.0 +10 fists with +20 atk lvl and finding someone to tank for you
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well its simple really....if you can attain 5 atks/sec without demon spark..hell go for sage b:victory cos the damage reduction from the spark would atleast be useful.

    Irrespective of which is cheaper, its more to do with how the player prefers to play. Personally, I went Demon because I cant afford a lot and on DW I find demon skills to be cheaper than sage. Besides I prefer seeing more crits and faster atk rates as well.
  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    tbh there r so many 5.0 bms around its not that hard to find some1 to tank for u, i always manage to find ppl, plus y refine fist to +10, thats like 150gold just for +9 and +10 i rather spent them on my pvp gears, for archer, i think even a +6 fist is good enough as u dont want to take aggro from the bm, and sometimes bm just want to throw in a hf to make boss die a bit quicker.

    at end of the day is called MMorpg, if you want to solo.. well you should just play rpg (rocket-propelled grenade) Allāhu Akbar!!! b:avoid
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    ok so because of pvp my pve arguement is invalid *sigh*
    once you get end game fists which is +10 and you said +atk lvl shards, it would be hard to find people to tank, even without atk shards there are only a handful of bms that out DPS me to tank, so yah defenses are important, which sage has a huge bonus on that takes multiple times the cost for archer to achieve even when factoring in the additional atk interval gear, thats all i was saying
    and i can tank and hold aggro on 3-2, 3-3 and many WB(2 clerics) but it comes at a high cost for refines/defenses as demon
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    To put it in a different way (I've mentioned this quite a lot):

    Demon Archers pay dearly for survivability with cheap 5.0aps fist.

    Sage Archers pay dearly to reach 5.0aps fists and save on survivability.

    At the end of the day, it boils down to what you prefer to prioritise first.
  • Myriad_ - Lost City
    Myriad_ - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Yes sure but who will takes the decision between sage or demon only based on who is better to kill/tank boss?
    Archer's pvp = bow = demon.
    /thread
  • Illyana - Dreamweaver
    Illyana - Dreamweaver Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Chezedude is pretty much the most known 5 APS Sage Archer and he goes around with Rank 8 and TT100 fists.

    <--- 5 APS Sage Archer

    It is expensive to pull off, but the damage reduction is pretty hax. Plus, I much prefer many of the sage skills to their demon counterparts.
    5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    5aps sage archer under BB - GAME WIN in PvE.
    And starting from there making cash for high refines is just a joke.
    In the end, even if demon skills are better suited for PvP, Sage archer wins. Why? because of authonomy and high rate of producing coins. Like in every economy, the most powerfull individual is the one that can have the biggest amount of coins.
    ____________
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  • _Ghostz_ - Archosaur
    _Ghostz_ - Archosaur Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    5aps sage archer under BB - GAME WIN in PvE.
    And starting from there making cash for high refines is just a joke.
    In the end, even if demon skills are better suited for PvP, Sage archer wins. Why? because of authonomy and high rate of producing coins. Like in every economy, the most powerfull individual is the one that can have the biggest amount of coins.

    lmfao Demon wins this post just makes me giggle.

    1. Demon Archer dont have to work as hard in order to get 5.0 attack speed with fist which makes them be able to solo dugeons why quicker in order to get the "Money" Your talking about.

    2. Who cares if it has reduce damage? The Boss doesnt live that long anyway and if you were that scared you can always get a Sin to Bloodpaint you before you go into a Dungeon.

    3. Demon Archer Skills are PVP oriented and much better then Sage Skills if i do say so myself.

    4. Both Can make money above efficently, a charm or 2 shouldnt be a problem when it comes down to it, if you have that much time invested into the game/Money.
    Just don't. This is your final warning.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    5aps sage archer under BB - GAME WIN in PvE.
    And starting from there making cash for high refines is just a joke.
    In the end, even if demon skills are better suited for PvP, Sage archer wins. Why? because of authonomy and high rate of producing coins. Like in every economy, the most powerfull individual is the one that can have the biggest amount of coins.

    Since when does sage damage reduction stack with BB? Demon spark performs much better under BB than sage.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    2. Who cares if it has reduce damage? The Boss doesnt live that long anyway and if you were that scared you can always get a Sin to Bloodpaint you before you go into a Dungeon.

    Except Bloodpaint only works on BMs, Barbs, and sins.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    2. Who cares if it has reduce damage? The Boss doesnt live that long anyway and if you were that scared you can always get a Sin to Bloodpaint you before you go into a Dungeon.

    .

    a.25% reduce damage is a ton, it makes real TT money bosses much easier (enjoy getting hit 6k by emp/arma as demon)
    b as said you cant cast bloodpaint on an archer
  • _Ghostz_ - Archosaur
    _Ghostz_ - Archosaur Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Yah that is right, its melee and only melee classes. Sucks for ya'll

    Oh well my bad lol
    Just don't. This is your final warning.
  • Illyana - Dreamweaver
    Illyana - Dreamweaver Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Having just hit rank 8 today, my 5 APS is base now without the use of windshield, so I get the full 25% reduction b:chuckle

    The real benefit is not BB, it is LIKE having a BB (ok, not a full BB) but the cleric just IHs instead. Win! The benefits of having high base interval without the use of spark/Demon QS means I don't have to rely on Chi or a lucky proc to take down peeps. High Atk rate + 38% base crit b:dirty

    I think its safe to say that at least in terms of interval builds (which is all PvE really) sage has the potential to really outshine demon.
    5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver
  • Zhadi - Archosaur
    Zhadi - Archosaur Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    why in the hell...

    did this thread turn into an "archer using claws for PvE" rant?!

    WTF?!?!?!?!

    First of all, it was a question of whether sage is good for PvP or not...
    Second.... FFS, we're mainly bow users, she's talking about sage/demon as a whole not just the damn spark. And in order to use those demon/sage sides to their full potential we have to include skills which require BOWS! O.O zomg!

    To answer the stupid suggestions that "sage archer will win because they can produce more coins" is total shiet! Most of the money comes from rl cash, not ingame made for most people. Argue all you want, but truth is, that most of the archers with great gears have dropped a ton of cash into this game.

    And that's just my rage after seeing such stupidities in this forumb:angry
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    why in the hell...

    did this thread turn into an "archer using claws for PvE" rant?!

    WTF?!?!?!?!

    First of all, it was a question of whether sage is good for PvP or not...
    Second.... FFS, we're mainly bow users, she's talking about sage/demon as a whole not just the damn spark. And in order to use those demon/sage sides to their full potential we have to include skills which require BOWS! O.O zomg!

    To answer the stupid suggestions that "sage archer will win because they can produce more coins" is total shiet! Most of the money comes from rl cash, not ingame made for most people. Argue all you want, but truth is, that most of the archers with great gears have dropped a ton of cash into this game.

    And that's just my rage after seeing such stupidities in this forumb:angry

    clawchers are your classes pve endgame
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Zhadi - Archosaur
    Zhadi - Archosaur Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    clawchers are your classes pve endgame

    pve = leveling

    leveling end game = aoe

    aoe = bow

    shush.
  • Mosz - Heavens Tear
    Mosz - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    pve = leveling

    leveling end game = aoe

    aoe = bow

    shush.

    cause everyone cash shops all their gear/refines?
    endgame pve= farming 3-3/3-2/nirvana/WB and fist excels on all of those, and fisters can tank all BH(RB one too if youre crazy)