Making money is too easy

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

I got this.....here is my take... QQ QQQ QQ QQQQQQ QQ QQQQ Q QQ QQQ QQQQ QQQ QQQQQ.

And to quote almost everyone else....QQQQ QQ QQQ QQQQ QQQQQQ QQQ QQ QQQQQ QQQ QQQQ

KK I"m done....b:pleased

Yulk - Heavens Tear

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I got this.....here is my take... QQ QQQ QQ QQQQQQ QQ QQQQ Q QQ QQQ QQQQ QQQ QQQQQ.

And to quote almost everyone else....QQQQ QQ QQQ QQQQ QQQQQQ QQQ QQ QQQQQ QQQ QQQQ

KK I"m done....b:pleased

^-- win xD

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In case you have not noticed, just like in RL, people that dont spend/have money expect and think they are entitled to the money of people that work hard and have money. Cash Shoppers, even though they are the only reason PWI is even up and running and is able to offer the game for free for everyone else, are seen as the evil ones.....

PWI is not real is is all virtual and has no relation on the real world no governments to elect atc atc.to those is real world that don't have an income that is what welfare is for to help prevent crime other word there would be.you wouldn't want the nice pc of your to end of in pawn shop now would you.This untill they find work and not to be permanent.

Those who don't ever cash shop are permanent dependents on us to supply them for gold and cash shop items.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

PWI is not real is is all virtual and has no relation on the real world no governments to elect atc atc.to those is real world that don't have an income that is what welfare is for to help prevent crime other word there would be.you wouldn't want the nice pc of your to end of in pawn shop now would you.This untill they find work and not to be permanent.

Those who don't ever cash shop are permanent dependents on us to supply them for gold and cash shop items.

0.o ?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

PWI is not real is is all virtual and has no relation on the real world no governments to elect atc atc.to those is real world that don't have an income that is what welfare is for to help prevent crime other word there would be.you wouldn't want the nice pc of your to end of in pawn shop now would you.This untill they find work and not to be permanent.

Those who don't ever cash shop are permanent dependents on us to supply them for gold and cash shop items.

And for your support to keep PWE in business, however, don't expect to see many of those players to ever thank you... chances are they will complain about you and blame you for their situation.

From someone who has charged very little RL money in this game and that depends on you spending money in this game, I do want to say thank you for help keeping PWI running so I can enjoy the game.

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I got this.....here is my take... QQ QQQ QQ QQQQQQ QQ QQQQ Q QQ QQQ QQQQ QQQ QQQQQ.

And to quote almost everyone else....QQQQ QQ QQQ QQQQ QQQQQQ QQQ QQ QQQQQ QQQ QQQQ

KK I"m done....b:pleased

summed it up perfectlyb:chuckle

FapFapFap - Raging Tide

"Feed the rich, **** the poor" is common in F2P, every game goes more and more into that direction after some time.
Anyways, farming DQs at Spiders via couple AoE with some cleric was always fun and brought some pocket money, I just can hope they'll increase the drop rate then...cuz this wouldn't change farming them for money, just making the quests cheaper.
If not I wouldn't mind...merchanting with botique items is anyways way more money for a little bit of effort compared to farming.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

PWI is not real is is all virtual and has no relation on the real world no governments to elect atc atc.to those is real world that don't have an income that is what welfare is for to help prevent crime other word there would be.you wouldn't want the nice pc of your to end of in pawn shop now would you.This untill they find work and not to be permanent.

Those who don't ever cash shop are permanent dependents on us to supply them for gold and cash shop items.

And bananas are yellow....I don't get that text

yashino

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Before: Harder to lvl, easier to make money
Now: Harder to make money, easier to lvl

actually
before not really hard to lvl if you zhen a lot which is lovely cuz you can afk all you want except the lurers, and easier to make money? well pretty much the same as now
as gold price went up, some items went up, people spam more instances unless theyre lazy and just relying on cs.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Before & After:

- Leveling - Easier
- High Level Skills (79+) - Easier
- Shards - Easier
- Instance Equipment - Easier
- Certain Endgame Equipments - Easier

- Refine - Harder
- Socket Stones - Harder
- HP Charms - Harder
- MP Charms - Harder, but overall less "necessary" than before.
- Legendary Pets - Harder
- Inventory Stones - Harder
- Bank Stones - Harder
- Reset Note - Harder
- Guardian Scroll - Harder

- Land & Air Mounts - I do not know. I think settling for an ugly max-speed costs about the same.

PS: I played when gold was 100k. PvE-only. Have not charged zhen ever. Did not do free zhen offers.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Back then you could make enough grinding to be able to afford charms, refines, sockets, etc.


Sure shards are cheaper, subs are cheaper, teles are cheaper, and MP charms are practically usesess.



But anything that can't be obtained via tokens has shot up in price, and there is almost no way to make enough coins to be able to affod those. Sure shards used to cost a lot more, but +5 on your TT90 was standard. I'm lucky to have been able to get full +4 and my gear is better than almost every non charger on my server. Charms are insanely expensive. Equipping a gold charm is a painful experience for me and I will sometimes avoid helping friends with anything if it might cause my charm to tick. The other week after I had a charm for TW I told my friend I couldn't help him farm his TT90 because I didn't want my charm to tick.

Making coins is a joke. Grinding is pointless when you grind all day to maybe get 1 gold. The double drop events have completely ruined running TT for money. Basically if you can't afford to keep a cat shop up and running 24/7 then you are completely screwed.

Tojop - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh, what do you need gold for besides a charm? Getting mats for your TT gear is easy, and so is sharding it. Getting hp food is cheap. I don't understand what people need gold so badly for. Fashion? Hyper stones? Opening packs??? Enlighten meb:bye

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Rawrgh, what do you need gold for besides a charm? Getting mats for your TT gear is easy, and so is sharding it. Getting hp food is cheap. I don't understand what people need gold so badly for. Fashion? Hyper stones? Opening packs??? Enlighten meb:bye

Refining.

I'm lucky I got TT90 weapon refined to +4, but only because got it from a trade with guildie. But the armor set waits at +1 until gold prices drop a bit... b:surrender

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Let's see.......


Refines, that's sort of a big one. Need to refine your gear, and unless you plan on using nothing but mirages it's gonna take gold, whether it be for tienkang/tisha stones, or for dragon orbs. Like I said, shards are easy, refines however are crazy expensive. My TT90 gear is at +4, boots are still +2 for now. My Gx are +4 I hope to be able to refine them higher soon, aiming for +6/+7. But what I really need to refines is my ornaments. Once I eventually get a swindler's necklace I need to refine that, as well as my belt. I'm currently using a +2, OHT level 80 belt. Hopefully once I get my gear up to where I have around 15khp I can start to do delta and get a better belt, once that happens I need to refine it.

Charms ofc, I've been in PvP/TW enough to know that I need a charm in serious PvP.

Gear, since everything is best obtained from the cash shop. Like.... every cash shopper on Raging Tide has a warsoul helm, and I need to get one. So now I need 20+mil depending on how many sockets it has. Now of course I could farm one by winning the tournament......... oh wait nevermind, they removed the tournament.

I used to buy hypers, although now that I've hit 90 I've stopped, and they aren't essential so I'll leave those out.

I need a faster flying mount, still using my +0.5 one. Now you may think that it's "just a luxury" but 90% of all PvP usually ends up in the air, and when I'm flying around on my +0.5 fly mount, while a veno with a +3.0 one is running from me having her nix attack me..... yea, I need a better one.

Still need coins for other things as well, such as gold mats from TT. As a barb I need mdef, the necklace I plan to get is a swindler's necklace, gives +5% max hp and refines for mdef. To make it I need 2 touch of the seven luminaries which I need to buy. No I cannot farm it, as every squad generally has the same idea on gold mats, sell them in the AH and split the coins. So farming them is not a possibility.

axt57

Back then some venos had done enough grinding to get a nix/herc.

Try doing that now

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You guys (PequetteV and Aneurysmal) have both missed my point. Money may be more difficult to get, but what are you trying to buy with it? Dragon orbs, shards, and mats for gear, in short. Twilight Temple is easier to run for mats, because people have better gear and knowledge of the instance. Shards are by FAR cheaper because of tokens.

Refining is more expensive. Was it too cheap to begin with? I think that's a valid question.

Too cheap to begin with? You are aware that if you buy orbs just to take a gear from +2 to +5 is 29 gold? Thats insane. 29 USD to refine your gear to a measly +5. If they dropped their prices in the boutique to adhere to the staggering economy things would be much better off. A dress for 6 USD. I can buy a dress in real life at wal mart for like 10 bucks more than that. They don't even do anything either. I mean if they added +1 attack or +2 defense or something then maybe.. but come on.

Refining is far too expensive. My blinding radiance bow is at a +6 only b/c I bought it very cheap that way. Otherwise my stuff would all be at a +3.... enough on the topic.

UrbanOutlaw - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok.. with this one, i'd like to how many actually leveled up without Hyper EXP Stones, Training Eso's or Oracles.. I've been playing about one year now and just level 96. And have seen many others who were a hell of alot lower and Tideborns now. Alot higher then i am.. I do crazy stone and bounty hunter and thats it, since i got level 90 :P

I didn't oracle and "pay" my way up to my level. I've been playing this character since May of last year. One year in and I'm at lvl 96. I did take about a one month break from the craziness and I play at least 3 or 4 hours a day maybe more on average.

chelseacraft wrote: »

There are TWO (2) economies in Perfect World not just one.

1. The original money system in the game between each player & the game.

2. The economy which arises between players such as catshops, auction & gold sales.

You simply can't lump them both together & say it's all the same when it's not.

WHY is there a problem?

Little kids don't understand basic economics let alone more advanced concepts.

Who is to blame?

PWI for failing to provide structure & restrictions for player to player transactions.

What is the answer?

Grow up to the fact that PWI is NOT a charity organization created for your personal enjoyment staffed with volunteer workers who just like to listen to your complaints.

Free players must become grateful that they are here at all & be thankful other people spend money so they can enjoy the game AT A DIMINISHED CAPACITY and not expect to get everything the paying ppl have.

Free players who cannot wrap their heads around the fact that we've all gone out of our way to be nice & give them something to do here & a chance to make of it what they will then...

THOSE NEED TO LEAVE.

Problems all solved. b:victory

I suggest that we did all leave. Everyone who uses coins to buy anything. That way all you would have to buy your gold is another cash shopper. It would be funny to see it sit in the auction for days on end and never sell. You ppl think that you are the ones who keep this game going? We should be grateful?

Let me enlighten you. Without hard working, coin grinding "free to play" players.. there would be no game. It is US who buys the gold from YOU. Without US you would not have anyone to sell gold to. We all leave, the game dies.... have fun!

MagicHamsta - Lost City

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I suggest that we did all leave. Everyone who uses coins to buy anything. That way all you would have to buy your gold is another cash shopper. It would be funny to see it sit in the auction for days on end and never sell. You ppl think that you are the ones who keep this game going? We should be grateful?

Let me enlighten you. Without hard working, coin grinding "free to play" players.. there would be no game. It is US who buys the gold from YOU. Without US you would not have anyone to sell gold to. We all leave, the game dies.... have fun!

me shoot down your argument with.....token of best luck & chest of coin(s).
b:surrender

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

me shoot down your argument with.....token of best luck & chest of coin(s).
b:surrender

<holds both arms up> Three points... touch down!!!!!

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Me thinks without non cash shoppers the cash shoppers would leave.


They buy crazy refines and endgame gear to be better, not equal. If there weren't all the people out there whose gear doesn't even stand a chance compared to thiers then they would leave.


It's no fun having full +12 gear when everyone else does.

Tojop - Dreamweaver

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Too cheap to begin with? You are aware that if you buy orbs just to take a gear from +2 to +5 is 29 gold? Thats insane. 29 USD to refine your gear to a measly +5. If they dropped their prices in the boutique to adhere to the staggering economy things would be much better off.

TT 90 green chest gets +145 hp for +5, at 9-12m, depending on what gold prices are. The heavy chest gets a whopping +229 hp. The +10 vit stones would literally fly off the shelves for 10m each, and they only give 100-170 hp (class dependent). Just trying to put things in perspective for you, because I don't think you really thought out this part of your answer.

Edit: At current token prices, flawless shard gives +40 hp for 145k, immaculate gives +50 hp for 750k. Now compare those hp:coin ratios to refining. Then, consider how much a +5 4 immaculate chest would cost pre-packs: 3.5m for +5, and a good 3-3.5m per shard. Do the math, it's very close.

I've tried to say this like 3 different ways, and no one has gotten it yet. Refining is more expensive, but shards are way cheaper. No one is looking at the end result of before and after.

Also, I don't know if you have read the guide that the one guy made about Refining with Tisha stones and mirages and what not, but he got his 90 gear to +5 at about half the cost (in coins) of dragon orbs when they are on sale. Food for thought.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

<holds both arms up> Three points... touch down!!!!!

*victory dance*
*dance dance*
b:chuckle

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Yes shards are cheaper, we get it, you made your point.


I don't know if you read my earlier post where I listed the things that coins are needed for. The point remains, there is no decent coin making process left other than merchanting, and gold is needed.




But you can't compete at higher levels with unrefined gear, period. And yes, I've refined almost all of my TT90 to +4 using mirages and tienkang/tisha stones, the fact remains that gold is ESSENTIAL to compete at higher levels.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes shards are cheaper, we get it, you made your point.


But you can't compete at higher levels with unrefined gear, period. And yes, I've refined almost all of my TT90 to +4 using mirages and tienkang/tisha stones, the fact remains that gold is ESSENTIAL to compete at higher levels.

Since the price of gold has not changed since the game came out, what is your point?
1 gold = $1

Just like everything in life, the ones with most money will always have an advantage.
Also, seeing as you are in a new server and are already level 90, I am sure you did not get a chance to farm/grind like we used to, therefore you see the coin problem as being much bigger than it really is.

Try this for size. Create a new character. Do not use any leveling aids. Do quests and gring only so it takes you 9months + to get to level 90. Than come back and say if the money problems are really that much? When you spend 2-3 months in your 80s, getting tt80 gear is not that big of a deal.... when you go from level 70 to 90 in 2 weeks, you better be rich to afford the gear.

Gold has a huge impact when you are rushing to the top without playing the game. But since you are using gold to rush to the top, it only makes sense that gold is far more important to you.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Yes because this is obviously my first character.


I've been playing this game ever since it was in open beta, my last character I leveled with no hypers, no oracles, no bounty hunter. Back when you would spend all day killing fish.

Also, seeing as you are in a new server and are already level 90, I am sure you did not get a chance to farm/grind like we used to, therefore you see the coin problem as being much bigger than it really is.

I am one of the best geared non cash shoppers on my server, one of the first few to get Gx without cash shopping. My point remains, there is no decent way to obtain coins in order to keep up with the gold prices.

zangar1khan

Here's a theory i think the Developers/business/IT department want to take the lag off the game therefor getting people to quit while keeping their income from cat-shoppers. GREEDY

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And for your support to keep PWE in business, however, don't expect to see many of those players to ever thank you... chances are they will complain about you and blame you for their situation.

No.I wouldn't and why me only what about all those other cash shoppers.I see far richer ppl in game then myself with new set of wings and nice gear well refined a lot better than what I have and can afford atm.


@FapFapFap - Raging Tide.I wasn't replying to anything you said and it was statement about the difference between the real world and this virtual world so go eat a banana.

Tojop - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

My point remains, there is no decent way to obtain coins in order to keep up with the gold prices.

And here is our impasse. I say there is, you say there isn't. Regardless...

Rawrgh, since you do remember actual grinding, please tell me: how much have you done on RT? I'm not calling you out as an oracle noob or anything; what I mean is, how much time do you actually spend earning coins? Does it even come close to comparing with the grind sessions on your previous character? I think not.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

If you look in the other thread, you'll see where prices on certain things were lowered, as well as the possibility of DQ items being lowered by 20%. If you can't merchant you cant get enough coins to have what used to be considered standard.


Actual grinding? not much. Farming TT on the other hand, A LOT. At least 2 TT2-3 runs a day and that's if I'm feeling lazy, Sometimes 4 or more.


I easily spend twice as much time on this character farming coins than I did on my last one. But the point remains, it's largely ineffective. Double drops have definately hurt farming TT, a ton. On my last character I didn't grind for coins, I grinded for XP, coins were just a nice bonus. In fact I'm willing to say grinding has always been a terrible way of making money.

Yes, I used hypers. I used hypers so i would be able to run the higher level TTs easier. And it worked. Now that I'm able to use my full TT90 gear I can pretty much AFK through 2-3. But again, double drops have killed so much of the profit made from TT.



It's not that coins are harder to get per se, even though they are. The problem is the increased prices on anything you would buy with those coins. Like I said earlier, I need a +3.0 fly mount. To get the coins I farm TT2-3, 3 runs a day (my average.) On average I'd say I get 1.4 drops per run, Lets say antennas. Before the double drop event on my server I could easily sell for 700k each, now I'm lucky to get 400k each, from what I've heard from other servers it's even worse there, antennas not even breaking 300k each, but I digress. 1.4 drops on average, selling at 400k per drop. That gives me 560k per run. Then you subtract the cost of repairs, which can get ugly. Lets say 120k per run. Then pots as I use up a few HP/MP pots on my runs. So I come out of TT2-3 with around 400k of profit. Thats if we don't do AE, and finding a squad for AE is just a painful experience, and doing him I'd say I'm only able to do a max of 2 runs per day.

So for the time spent in 2-3 (I'm sure you know how long the average run takes) I come out with 400k profit, compared to the ~800k-1mil I would have been able to make before the double drop event ruined prices. Factor that in with increased gold prices. Gold on raging tide is around 400k. Cheapest fly mount with +3.0 for untamed is 25 gold I believe, although if patient it can be found for 6mil. So that's 15 runs for one thing. \


Keep in mind my 1.4 drops per average, is with me tanking and getting first pick. So a DD class is even worse off. And this for a relatively small purchase. Consider the price to get a piece of gear to +6 or higher.


Hell the 2 ancient devil's souls for my Gx cost me 13mil each. And that's lower than the usual price, I bought them from a friend, normally they would cost me at least 15mil each.


Fortunately I'm able to keep up a cat shop open 24/7, the only decent way left of making coins. Sadly I made mistake and spent everything on getting gold mats for Gx, once I get some more coins I'll start investing again.

I feel bad for people who can't merchant.



Your point at the beginning was (correct me if I'm wrong) Gold is more expensive and harder to get, but it's not necessary with cheap shards/subs/event pots. My point is, it is still in fact very much necessary.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Me thinks without non cash shoppers the cash shoppers would leave.


They buy crazy refines and endgame gear to be better, not equal. If there weren't all the people out there whose gear doesn't even stand a chance compared to thiers then they would leave.


It's no fun having full +12 gear when everyone else does.

Speak for yourself! I would have just as much fun as the next guy with all +12 gears and love every single minute of it.

Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »

TT 90 green chest gets +145 hp for +5, at 9-12m, depending on what gold prices are. The heavy chest gets a whopping +229 hp. The +10 vit stones would literally fly off the shelves for 10m each, and they only give 100-170 hp (class dependent). Just trying to put things in perspective for you, because I don't think you really thought out this part of your answer.

Edit: At current token prices, flawless shard gives +40 hp for 145k, immaculate gives +50 hp for 750k. Now compare those hp:coin ratios to refining. Then, consider how much a +5 4 immaculate chest would cost pre-packs: 3.5m for +5, and a good 3-3.5m per shard. Do the math, it's very close.

I've tried to say this like 3 different ways, and no one has gotten it yet. Refining is more expensive, but shards are way cheaper. No one is looking at the end result of before and after.

Also, I don't know if you have read the guide that the one guy made about Refining with Tisha stones and mirages and what not, but he got his 90 gear to +5 at about half the cost (in coins) of dragon orbs when they are on sale. Food for thought.

I get this, its why I will not use anything but an immaculate shard. I tried explaining this to my mother who thinks putting perfect shards in everything is the way to go. Forget that.. might as well spend a few mil more and buy +10 vit shards. Perfect shard adds 12 more HP than the Immaculates. And cost 3 mil more. No thnx. That 12 HP isn't going to keep me in a difference between life and death.

The real issue here is, they are trying to fix inflation. Taking away the income of the non cash shoppers isn't where the problem lies. The problem lies with there being more coins in the hands of people who don't spend them. For instance I know of a guy who hoards things. I mean.. he will hold onto them ... you see him shouting all the time buying very expensive stuff. He has probably got billions of coins, but he don't spend them. Except to buy up gold and hoard it too... THAT is the problem. Not the few measly hundred k ppl earn off dq items a day.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Since the price of gold has not changed since the game came out, what is your point?
1 gold = $1

Just like everything in life, the ones with most money will always have an advantage.
Also, seeing as you are in a new server and are already level 90, I am sure you did not get a chance to farm/grind like we used to, therefore you see the coin problem as being much bigger than it really is.

Try this for size. Create a new character. Do not use any leveling aids. Do quests and gring only so it takes you 9months + to get to level 90. Than come back and say if the money problems are really that much? When you spend 2-3 months in your 80s, getting tt80 gear is not that big of a deal.... when you go from level 70 to 90 in 2 weeks, you better be rich to afford the gear.

Gold has a huge impact when you are rushing to the top without playing the game. But since you are using gold to rush to the top, it only makes sense that gold is far more important to you.

I got no problem with the one who has the most money irl winning. More power to them cause I'm in no competition with anyone, therefore they aren't winning anything over on me. However; when I can't go out and do a quest and earn at least 10k more coins than I started with after repairs/pots something is not right. Its not a matter of winning... its become a struggle to just be able to play the game, forget buying anything else. (this is potentially speaking of the reduction of the dq items)

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

If you look in the other thread, you'll see where prices on certain things were lowered, as well as the possibility of DQ items being lowered by 20%.


Actual grinding? not much. Farming TT on the other hand, A LOT. At least 2 TT2-3 runs a day and that's if I'm feeling lazy, Sometimes 4 or more.


I easily spend twice as much time on this character farming coins than I did on my last one. But the point remains, it's largely ineffective. Double drops have definately hurt farming TT, a ton. On my last character I didn't grind for coins, I grinded for XP, coins were just a nice bonus. In fact I'm willing to say grinding has always been a terrible way of making money.

Yes, I used hypers. I used hypers so i would be able to run the higher level TTs easier. And it worked. Now that I'm able to use my full TT90 gear I can pretty much AFK through 2-3. But again, double drops have killed so much of the profit made from TT.

Sorry for the dp but I had to respond.

I run at least 4 tt runs a day.. if not more. After repair and arrows and pots and charms, I've not hardly made anything. The DQ drops in there even help to pay for repairs. Why take such a simple element of the game and mess it up? The game is meant to be played to work hard, and earn money. If I have to work 2x harder to do that, I don't consider it entertainment. That is when ppl will start leaving.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've tried to say this like 3 different ways, and no one has gotten it yet. Refining is more expensive, but shards are way cheaper. No one is looking at the end result of before and after.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8033492#post8033492


EDIT: Furthermore, you used "literally" in a metaphorical manner.