Still a prestiege class

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

That was intentional. :P

Well, hope to see you then!

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be honest I's rather kite that barb a little more and get more chi to be able to break through his charm.

You can't break through his charm if he is a decent player on par with you. You having good gear means he has good gear also.

Why wizards always assume the ppl they are fighting against have **** gear while they have uber gear?

Have fun taking a 40k HP barb by bypassing his charm. b:laugh
Psychics at least have diminished vigor so a *bit* more chance but I would still say quite impossible if the barb doesn't just stay still.


And how can I be wrong about everything else? When have I ever used comparison without numbers to back it up?

The thing is, the opponent's gear matters as much as yours. If he has ****, there really is no conclusion to draw.

As for -channeling gear, aren't there alternatives to some at least? You know, it's like sacrificing a stat for -channeling? b:question (genuine question btw)


EDIT: Furthermore why are wizards so defensive? All I have said from my previous post, was some simple facts. i.e: how much total weapon damage you have from Red Tide with 500 mag, for example. A simple fact and you get defensive over it?

Because Maestro said something wrong about psychic skills, furthermore I simply outlined the psychic's 2 spark ulti and laid out the formulas for damage. What is there to be wrong about this? I haven't even given a conclusion, you were left to draw your own.

Personally, my mindset is multiplicative, as it's more logical. Thus the difference between 500 and 1000 damage is the same as between 5000 and 10000 for me. Both are twice as it requires twice the effort (usually).



Other "facts" to consider:

Critical chance increase is, on average, the same amount of percent in damage. Example: +2% crit means +2% more damage on average. Statistically anyway.

-channeling is a relatively poor way of "increasing" damage, if you figure this out. So don't ever pick a piece of gear solely for its -channeling. If there's no other to pick from (there's a relatively limited choice of end-game gear, of course), but dont ever pick it SOLELY for -channeling. Not worth it. Consider it "just a bonus". If there's +crit gear available (same grade and all), for instance, always favor it over -channeling gear (unless of course, the -channeling is better in other aspects/stats).

It's not me being subjective, it's just math.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Have fun taking a 40k HP barb by bypassing his charm. b:laugh

It's not me being subjective, it's just math.

yup, you're not subjective, you're idiot, and the line with the laughing face is the proof.

We're on PWI here, not private server.
**** and GTFO.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

Because every decent barb has 40k hp, you are making a fool out of yourself again. Ask Skippy from DW if I can kill a well equipped barb one on one... (He got TT100 +10, I got cv wand +10). You need to actually know your class. And be smart. I can easily crit a barb for 15k+ with sage bids and undine. If i brought him down to like 55%-60% first that is usually enough to bypass his charm. Or I tick him intentionally and follow with a sutra combo with undine and EP, spike damage baby... And that is in TIGER FORM. Barbs usually fight in human form. How would a barb kill me in his kitty form? Sure barbs have ways to counter all this, a fight usually lasts 3-5 minutes or more...

BTW: If you take a 40k hp barb you have to take a rank8/full nirvana wizard as well... And you have no idea how those wiz hurt. Plus a completely tank/hp build barb can only hurt with Arma most of the time...

And about chan: I got 24% and only sacrificed pdef from event robe (got the chan robe wanted to get more than 20% because of adjusting MS channel time to sleep duration).


But nice to see how many of my arguments you commented. I write my **** off because I am not as smart as Ursa and actually comment your bullsh!t and all you can bring is some 40k hp barb? Go reroll please, you're a shame for every single wizard out there...

Edit:

1) Ursa was faster.

2) 2% crit is ofc a 2% increase in dps, but it is far more than that. To actually land a kill you need the spike damage of a crit, 2% crit means having a 2% higher chance to easily bypass a charm (if it's a barb) or even one shot someone. We are not fighting a TT-Boss, thuss your assumptions are flawed.

3) And for channeling. Again no dps reasons. Reason is getting the channel of MS below 4 seconds to enable the ability to instant sleep and then stun, and therefore making the long channel time of MS non factor.

Using math on problems is sometimes useful and sometimes just what you demonstarted -> Bullsh!t.

Rangergod - Raging Tide

this arguing makes Eric Sad:( why must we all argue?... wasn't the question if you are still a prestiege class.

Rangergod - Raging Tide

i'm sure the game programmers and designers didn't make it so we can argue...

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Channeling? Of course. At the end of game I will have ~-40% channeling without sacrificed p.def. Where did you figure out, that good -channeling gear much sacrifice p.def? I don't even sacrifice critical %. At the end I will have also at least 18 % critical. Is it low? with -40% channeling? Faster channeling=faster hitting=faster critical.

Amour - Lost City

A barb with 25k+ hp in tiger should never lose 1 on 1 to a mage, they have too many counters to everything. Solid shield for one, turtle, stun, kite, etc. But they're dumb and think they can tank

Kristoph - Lost City

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

A barb with 25k+ hp in tiger should never lose 1 on 1 to a mage, they have too many counters to everything. Solid shield for one, turtle, stun, kite, etc. But they're dumb and think they can tank

This.. solid shield and event pots should stop them from bypassing their charm pretty much always with an ulti. Sleep cooldown is 2 mins, Solid Shield 1 min cooldown and takes like no energy... best way to kill a barb is bypassing charm with something like a sandstorm crit, which is not going to be countered. But yeah even if you crit barbs for 14k with sandstorm... which is high on a good barb, it'll be hard to get their HP that close to half without having them pot or something. Only better alternative requires the pots that take away channeling. With a bit of luck you can get an ulti off after getting them to near half hp. Mostly for sages, works better with BIDS.


And 40% channeling endgame? lol? Where are you getting this from? 1% on tome, 6% on sleeves, 3% on pants, 12% total from rings. 22% channeling... rank 8 top isn't worth it, weapon gives no channeling because you'll end up with nirvana sword or rank8 sword. Nirvana top and helm are both much better than any channeling alternatives. Channeling cape is possible but I doubt many people would go for that over a nirvana/pdef cape.


And for all the idiots around; Psychics are better supportive classes in mass pvp, Wizards are the better killers. Psy's can stop catapullers properly and **** up their charm. Generally in TW you don't bypass barb charms so wizards aren't as good for this. And Psy's are better in 1v1 pvp versus certain classes because you can simply stun them with one spark, because it's a fast casting stun. Wizards do not have this kind of skill, paralyze only stops movement and sucks unless demon, Mountain seize is a f'ing joke if not in mass pvp. And ever fought an archer that knows how to kite with decent gear? Psy's will have an easier time killing them thanks to moves like Vector. And note that I said killing, not tanking/surviving. Wizards and Psy's have different playing styles, period. They don't replace eachother.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

[QUOTE=


And 40% channeling endgame? lol? Where are you getting this from? 1% on tome, 6% on sleeves, 3% on pants, 12% total from rings. 22% channeling... rank 8 top isn't worth it, weapon gives no channeling because you'll end up with nirvana sword or rank8 sword. Nirvana top and helm are both much better than any channeling alternatives. Channeling cape is possible but I doubt many people would go for that over a nirvana/pdef cape.


[/QUOTE]
Rings 2x6%= 12%
Robe = 6%
Nirvana pants = 3%
Nirvana Sleeves = 6%
Rank 8 chest = 6% (rank 8 not worth is your opinion not mine)
Weapon rank 8 = 6% ( Im not 100% sure If I fill up it with -channeling stones or critical stones)

All together 39% maybe plus tome 1% will be 40%.

Also I buy -channeling m. def ornaments for PVE. It adds another 12%. So with ornaments will be -52%.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

rings = -12%
cape = -6%
hat = -3%
archangel sleeves = -6%
archangel boots = -3% (1st unlocked add)
nirvana archangel leggings = -3%
rank 8 robe = -6%
rank 8 magic sword + 2 stones of savant = -12%
lvl6 tome = -2% channel (i'd much rather get a +2% crit tome though)

= up to 53% without channel belt or necklace.

with rank 6 robe and weapon that would be up to 54% without channel belt/necklace.

rank 6 without nirvana leggings and without -channel tome = 49% channel reduction (no channel belt/necklace).

in private servers there used to be a bug that allowed 97% channeling reduction to bypass cast time. no clue about it in pwi.

Kristoph - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Rings 2x6%= 12%
Robe = 6%
Nirvana pants = 3%
Nirvana Sleeves = 6%
Rank 8 chest = 6% (rank 8 not worth is your opinion not mine)
Weapon rank 8 = 6% ( Im not 100% sure If I fill up it with -channeling stones or critical stones)

All together 39% maybe plus tome 1% will be 40%.

Also I buy -channeling m. def ornaments for PVE. It adds another 12%. So with ornaments will be -52%.

Enjoy your grade 12 refined chest with horrible resistances and inability to put def lvl shards in. Along with lack of decent defense from cape... your survivability is gonna suck pretty bad.


And lol @ crit/channeling stones in rank8 weapon.


And to the above poster... we're talking about endgame gear, not trash. Rank8 weapon doesn't add 6% channeling either, so it can't add 12%.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yup, you're not subjective, you're idiot, and the line with the laughing face is the proof.

We're on PWI here, not private server.
**** and GTFO.

Ok I am disappointed, I was expecting a bit more maturity, obviously disagreements. b:sad

Let me outline it again and what you said: I'm an idiot because I outlined how psychic's ultimates are not "fail" and that Earth Vector does not cost 2 sparks. Nice to know providing information makes you an idiot.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because every decent barb has 40k hp, you are making a fool out of yourself again.

No, but all wizards do not have +10 lunar weapons either.

If you think they need that to kill ppl with +2/+3 refines, then what can I say? You just admitted you can't bypass charms against people with equal gear.

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok I am disappointed, I was expecting a bit more maturity, obviously disagreements. b:sad

Let me outline it again and what you said: I'm an idiot because I outlined how psychic's ultimates are not "fail" and that Earth Vector does not cost 2 sparks. Nice to know providing information makes you an idiot.

No, but all wizards do not have +10 lunar weapons either.

If you think they need that to kill ppl with +2/+3 refines, then what can I say? You just admitted you can't bypass charms against people with equal gear.

Any fool can provide correct facts. Your analyses of those facts are 99% wrong on this thread.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

Amount of lvl95+ wizards with lunar +10 or equal/better I know on my server: About 10-15

Amount of 40k hp barbs on my server I know: 0

Anyone can tell you that Lunar +10 is nothing special anymore.
Do yourself a favor and look at this:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=664972
This barb has really pimped out equip, way better than mine. And even he has only 30k hp. So yea..

I fought barbs with HH100 poleaxe +10, charmed of course, and won. Maybe they were just stupid, but I don't think so. Kristoph is right if he says they have a lot of counters, so it takes luck of course. But you can force luck if you try often enough. The last equally geared barb I killed died becaue I bypassed his charm with a 11k Glacial Snare crit while he was in human form...

And again: Thx for commenting all the points I mentioned, discussing with you is awesome!

Kikuzakura - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

1 You can't break through his charm if he is a decent player on par with you. 2 You having good gear means he has good gear also.

3 Why wizards always assume the ppl they are fighting against have **** gear while they have uber gear?

4 Have fun taking a 40k HP barb by bypassing his charm. b:laugh
5 Psychics at least have diminished vigor so a *bit* more chance but I would still say quite impossible if the barb doesn't just stay still.


6 And how can I be wrong about everything else? 7 When have I ever used comparison without numbers to back it up?

8 The thing is, the opponent's gear matters as much as yours. 9 If he has ****, there really is no conclusion to draw.

10 As for -channeling gear, aren't there alternatives to some at least? 11 You know, it's like sacrificing a stat for -channeling? b:question (genuine question btw)


12 EDIT: Furthermore why are wizards so defensive? 12 All I have said from my previous post, was some simple facts. i.e: how much total weapon damage you have from Red Tide with 500 mag, for example. 13 A simple fact and you get defensive over it?

..

13 Critical chance increase is, on average, the same amount of percent in damage. Example: +2% crit means +2% more damage on average. Statistically anyway.

14 -channeling is a relatively poor way of "increasing" damage, if you figure this out. 15 So don't ever pick a piece of gear solely for its -channeling. 16 If there's no other to pick from (there's a relatively limited choice of end-game gear, of course), but dont ever pick it SOLELY for -channeling. Not worth it. Consider it "just a bonus". 16 If there's +crit gear available (same grade and all), for instance, always favor it over -channeling gear (unless of course, the -channeling is better in other aspects/stats).

17 It's not me being subjective, it's just math.

Since you expressed some comprehension problems, I thought I would try to explain:

1. this is neither completely true, nor relevant but does seem subjective.
2. this also seems not completely true, and irrelevant.
3. I see no basis for your always and personally I do not hold that point of view, and I see other wizards here not holding that point of view.
4. i have never met any 40k barbarians, but I have seen wizards do 400k+ damage in one hit in pve (with damage amps going). (However, I personally am not that level yet, even on my main.)
5. this sounds subjective
6. see 5?
7. in your previous post you were talking about BIDS, but did not acknowledge that Sage BIDS is vastly superior to Demon BIDS, and you were saying because another skill was approaching Demon BIDS in damage that BIDS did not seem very powerful. I hope you can see how some people would not be inclined to think that you were not understanding BIDS?
8. this sounds like a plausible first approximation but it can only be an approximation
9. ok?
10. there are always alternatives. often there are even good alternatives.
11. i did not understand your question.
12 see 7.
13 if you think you were only posting facts you need to either re-read your own posts and see what you really wrote or you need to get over yourself. Personally, I am thinking you need to re-read your own posts.
14. this is a trivial and pointless statement. (To illustrate what I mean by trivial: mana potions are also a relatively poor way of increasing damage -- that is not their role.) And by pointless I mean that it is true that channelling does not solve a variety of problems but it also solves some problems rather nicely (for example, consider a wizard healing your squad's tank).
15. this would usually be decent advice but not because of the reasoning you gave.
16. beware of "always" because sometimes things are different
17. except for point you expressed in the sentence I labled "13", you did not actually present much of any significant math, but perhaps you were thinking of some?

But lets take your point from sentence 13:

Critical chance influences your average damage and your average damage per second, but does not influence your minimum nor maximum damage. But the big advantage of critical hits (and of high damage "killing blows") is that your target can not heal after they are dead. And players have access to a lot of healing in this game. But your "mathematics" did not even touch on these rate related issues (and you were implying that rates were irrelevant).

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Enjoy your grade 12 refined chest with horrible resistances and inability to put def lvl shards in. Along with lack of decent defense from cape... your survivability is gonna suck pretty bad.


And lol @ crit/channeling stones in rank8 weapon.


And to the above poster... we're talking about endgame gear, not trash. Rank8 weapon doesn't add 6% channeling either, so it can't add 12%.

Rank 8 chest has horrible resistances? Wake up kid. It has better resistances than TT-nirvana. Just refines will be worse. BUT you have 4 sockets. Try to make nirvana armor with 4 sockets. Good luck.b:chuckle
Or pay horrible money to transfer it from lunar-TT armor.
Did you see how much p.def gives you +10 refined necklace and belt? I bet you don't. And AGAIN from ~9500 p.def is another raising p.def USELESS. You still didn't get it? You will not gain more damage reduction because it's hyperbolic curve. Or maybe if you increase p.def by another 3000 you get 1% more in damage reduction. Which is useless.

Kristoph - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Rank 8 chest has horrible resistances? Wake up kid. It has better resistances than TT-nirvana. Just refines will be worse. BUT you have 4 sockets. Try to make nirvana armor with 4 sockets. Good luck.b:chuckle
Or pay horrible money to transfer it from lunar-TT armor.
Did you see how much p.def gives you +10 refined necklace and belt? I bet you don't. And AGAIN from ~9500 p.def is another raising p.def USELESS. You still didn't get it? You will not gain more damage reduction because it's hyperbolic curve. Or maybe if you increase p.def by another 3000 you get 1% more in damage reduction. Which is useless.

- TT-nirvana gear basically gives you permanent buffs, meaning your survivability is higher. Why? Because arcane gear doesn't add mentionworthy pdef, and in magic fights there's always debuffs involved.
- Lunar-nirvana has better resistances period
- Far more HP from refines > one extra socket
- Ability to put DEF lvl2 stones in gear helps a lot more than anything else. Why? Because like you said, you already have plenty of pdef from well refined ornaments


Rather than wasting my time explaining it to you I'll show you what your awful idea does to an endgame mage:
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=86f5596da508b9d9

Your idea... with an amazing 7.7k pdef self buffed as sage. Not so good eh, unless you refuse to leave safezone with buffs and force log when you get purged in TW.

Lets give up 12% channeling.

http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c77b50961c00ecd4

Editted a lv100 top so it would be equal to a TT-nirvana top. 25 extra DEF level. 400 extra pdef. 2% extra crit. And keep in mind, this comes with "passive" +8% pdef and +16% mdef buffs.

What do we lose? 12% channeling, 400 HP, a little base mdef, 100 damage in pvp (before reductions) and 2/4% resistance. Ofcourse you could switch some stuff for lunar nirvana and get 5% extra attack level, which is probably better since you'd only lose 2/4% extra, but you'd get slightly more base stat along with the attack level.


So ignoring the mostly minor details, you end up with this:
25 DEF lvl, 2% crit, 4/8% extra resistances
vs
5 ATT lvl, 12% channeling, 400 HP


Gee. It's your call, "kid".

Adroit - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I do not really understand anything you were saying here, but you will never get 50 defense levels from a cube badge. The one you selected gives 1 defense level and not 50 like you had in that link. Also, six pieces of nirvana gear will give you 13 defense levels and that belt gives you another one and the cube badge another for a total of 15 defense levels, not 25.

lmao Cholla.. I haven't seen you make a blunder like this in a while. You will notice that he left every piece of gear with no sockets (because pwcalc doesn't have +2def level stones) so he basically averaged 3 sockets per piece times 2def level and combined all the defense levels into the neck.

Amaliee - Archosaur

This post was filled with more unintelligent responses by non-trolls than I could imagine. The amount of people talking right out their asses about a class they'd clearly never played or even paid much attention to makes me want to beat rudimentary educational skills into them with a stick.

You need an answer?

Psychics and Wizards are two different classes. Neither can replace the other because they are two different classes. No "prestige" so much as was had can be lost because they are two different classes. The skill sets of each are part of a give-and-take with the rest of the world as they are two different classes. They allow both psychics and wizards to have their own distinct uses because they are two different classes.

They are two different classes.

They are two different classes.

They are two different classes.

And to the people who spouted such idiotic **** like "I'd like to see a psychic with black voodoo tank Zimo" please just quit right now. Or mayhaps I should have fraps'd it back in my early 60s. -_-

I've played a wizzie and they're great. I've played a psy and they're great. To each their own, one will clearly fit play style more than another. Like in most aspects of the game, player skill trumps just about everything else, and with these two classes that's the key. And Anri I blame you for all of this entirely, even though you didn't really participate in discussion. I am going to smacksmack you when I run into you next. >:P

Tudordan - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are wrong about Earth Vector.

It costs only 1 spark.
In all sense, the channeling and cast time is identical to Gush.

For a skill equivalent to Gush in cast time, but wastes only 1 spark in addition to Gush...

Just remember next time you gush someone, and you have 1 spark to begin with, imagine you can stun them for 6 secs with 85% certainty... Scratch that, not "someone", but everyone within 8 meters. b:cute

Do you know the closest spell we can compare this one with (being an extremely fast AOE and all that)? Hailstorm.


This is the 2 spark ultimate FYI:

Red Tide
Range 28.5 Meters
Mana 516
Channel 1.8 seconds
Cast 1.2 seconds
Cooldown 30.0 seconds
Weapon Soulsphere

Requisite Cultivation Transcendent
Deals base magic damage plus 200%
of weapon damage plus 6295.8
Water damage to all targets within 8 meters.
Has a 80% chance to cause them to bleed
for damage equals to your Soulforce over 9 seconds.

Costs two Sparks


Now this would actually be more comparable to Hailstorm except that it uses 2 sparks -- because, as you can see, the channel and casting time is identical.

Just how fast is it? Almost twice as fast as BIDS as total cast/channel time (our fastest ulti). Of course, I haven't taken in account -channeling gear... because that's not the skill itself.

FYI "base magic damage" is around 600% weapon damage at endgame (if you have 500 mag), so "500% weapon damage" is not that much, not even double that.

If we factor this in, the psychic ulti has 800% weapon damage, while BIDS has 1100% weapon damage. Doesn't seem so powerful in comparison anymore does it?

Also I'm not sure if bleed even has PvP reduction. In that case an endgame psychic can bleed with this spell for 35k b:chuckle

You missed something Borsuc:Demon GUSH


Skill
○Gush
Range 30.0meters
Mana 256
Channel 1.0 seconds
Cast 1.0 seconds
Cooldown 3.0 seconds
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments

Requisite Cultivation Aware of the Void
Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies
to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of
weapon damage plus 3390.0 plus 600. Has a 95% chance
so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds.

Demon version gives an extra 600 damage


With 3390.0 damage it becomes to be CLOSE to earth vector but with 600 damage gush > earth vector

And @ red tide:

Your bleed will be useless if a cleric will come to purify to be honest!
So blade tempest is more favourable!

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Tudordan - Dreamweaver wrote: »

With 3390.0 damage it becomes to be CLOSE to earth vector but with 600 damage gush > earth vector

what about sage or demon vector?

Tudordan - Dreamweaver

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

what about sage or demon vector?

There isn't sage or demon vector yet


But let's take a look about sage mountain's seize

●Mountain's Seize
Range 30.0meters
Mana 655
Channel 5.0 seconds
Cast 1.4 seconds
Cooldown 30.0 seconds
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments

Requisite Cultivation Master of Harmony
Use all of one's energy to invoke the spirit of the Mountain. Slams the target
and all enemies 12.0 meters around it dealing Earth damage
equal to base magic attack plus500% of weapon damage plus 12149.0.
Has a 95% chance to stun all enemies for 6.0 seconds. Half the time casting will only consume one Spark.

Requires two Sparks

Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.


It is only a chance I know but is exactly like vector just with MORE damage b:bye


EDIT:The only good thing about vector:

Is cheap in mana [516]....more cheap than sage mountain's seize [655]

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

@Amaliee: Exactly. They are two different classes with two different playing styles. That is why I hate it when psychic-fanboys try to make em look better in every single aspect (even those where wizards clearly ARE better), by using completly unrealistic arguments or scenarios. You will never find me saying wizards are "better" than psychics in every aspect, because they are not. I like wizards more, that is all.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

- TT-nirvana gear basically gives you permanent buffs, meaning your survivability is higher. Why? Because arcane gear doesn't add mentionworthy pdef, and in magic fights there's always debuffs involved.
- Lunar-nirvana has better resistances period
- Far more HP from refines > one extra socket
- Ability to put DEF lvl2 stones in gear helps a lot more than anything else. Why? Because like you said, you already have plenty of pdef from well refined ornaments


Rather than wasting my time explaining it to you I'll show you what your awful idea does to an endgame mage:
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=86f5596da508b9d9

Your idea... with an amazing 7.7k pdef self buffed as sage. Not so good eh, unless you refuse to leave safezone with buffs and force log when you get purged in TW.

Lets give up 12% channeling.

http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c77b50961c00ecd4

Editted a lv100 top so it would be equal to a TT-nirvana top. 25 extra DEF level. 400 extra pdef. 2% extra crit. And keep in mind, this comes with "passive" +8% pdef and +16% mdef buffs.

What do we lose? 12% channeling, 400 HP, a little base mdef, 100 damage in pvp (before reductions) and 2/4% resistance. Ofcourse you could switch some stuff for lunar nirvana and get 5% extra attack level, which is probably better since you'd only lose 2/4% extra, but you'd get slightly more base stat along with the attack level.


So ignoring the mostly minor details, you end up with this:
25 DEF lvl, 2% crit, 4/8% extra resistances
vs
5 ATT lvl, 12% channeling, 400 HP


Gee. It's your call, "kid".

Ok short answer. Going to work.
My build.
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e7f96b052ac657e0
Your build
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c77b50961c00ecd4

My build has 400 p. def less (buffed is almost 12K)
But has 2600 more attack power, more critical, more m.def. (I took off citrine shard and I gave same necklace as you did.
So for me is path clear.

Kristoph - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok short answer. Going to work.
My build.
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e7f96b052ac657e0
Your build
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c77b50961c00ecd4

My build has 400 p. def less (buffed is almost 12K)
But has 2600 more attack power, more critical, more m.def. (I took off citrine shard and I gave same necklace as you did.
So for me is path clear.

- LOL? You gave yourself the cleric's magic attack buff just to try and pretend your damage range is higher?

- And did you forget crit boots only add 2% crit? Yours add 3%. So no, you don't have more crit.

- Where are you getting the +49 def level you put on your cube necklace? You have 4 pieces of gear that can contain DEF LVL+2 stones, which need g13. With 3 sockets on each piece this results in 12 shards, or +24 DEF level. You also don't have enough nirvana pieces for any DEF level. Meaning you're full of **** and still only have 26 DEF lvl total, not 51.

You're just pathetic now. I didn't randomly add DEF lvl onto that necklace, genius. Come back when you don't have to fake your "advantages".

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Tudordan - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There isn't sage or demon vector yet


But let's take a look about sage mountain's seize

●Mountain's Seize
Range 30.0meters
Mana 655
Channel 5.0 seconds
Cast 1.4 seconds
Cooldown 30.0 seconds
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments

Requisite Cultivation Master of Harmony
Use all of one's energy to invoke the spirit of the Mountain. Slams the target
and all enemies 12.0 meters around it dealing Earth damage
equal to base magic attack plus500% of weapon damage plus 12149.0.
Has a 95% chance to stun all enemies for 6.0 seconds. Half the time casting will only consume one Spark.

Requires two Sparks

Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.


It is only a chance I know but is exactly like vector just with MORE damage b:bye


EDIT:The only good thing about vector:

Is cheap in mana [516]....more cheap than sage mountain's seize [655]

Ummm, lets see

lvl 10 earth vector uses 516 mana
lvl 10 mountain seize uses 516 mana

so sage/demon earth vector will use 655....that "good point" is now void

Lets compare the level 10 versions so we wont overkill it

level 10 earth vector
100% wep damage + base mag + 3461.7- 85% chance to stun

level 10 mountain seize
500% wep damage + base mag + 8400.4- 95% chance to stun

umm, i will keep my **** rock tyvm

P.S. i play psychic too and ya, wiz is better defo...

kthxbaib:bye

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I fought barbs with HH100 poleaxe +10, charmed of course, and won. Maybe they were just stupid, but I don't think so. Kristoph is right if he says they have a lot of counters, so it takes luck of course. But you can force luck if you try often enough. The last equally geared barb I killed died becaue I bypassed his charm with a 11k Glacial Snare crit while he was in human form...

Well, of course, a barb is made to tank and even their one-shot skill benefits from HP not from weapon necessarily. So I assumed a good geared barb armor-wise. I know a 31k HP barb unbuffed on my server also.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And again: Thx for commenting all the points I mentioned, discussing with you is awesome!

idk if this was sarcastic, I'm sorry that I skip some points it's hard to summarize with many responses, but when I quote i don't do the whole post just a small part to not clugger it, and hopefully address a point.

Kikuzakura - Sanctuary wrote: »

Critical chance influences your average damage and your average damage per second, but does not influence your minimum nor maximum damage. But the big advantage of critical hits (and of high damage "killing blows") is that your target can not heal after they are dead. And players have access to a lot of healing in this game. But your "mathematics" did not even touch on these rate related issues (and you were implying that rates were irrelevant).

Do note that I said statistically. The advantage without them being able to heal cannot be compared mathematically. It's just a favorable tactic, and yes I do agree with it.

HOWEVER, that doesn't say exactly whether a 10% crit or 12% is more favorable, because you CAN crit with 10% one as well.


Also I noticed someone said demon gush as being better damaging spell, while that being true, you can't really compare sage/demon versions of a wizard's spells to a normal lvl10 psy version.

i don't think there is a mana difference between Mountain's Seize and Earth Vector, to be honest. The difference may come just from the fact that you used Sage MS, which is lvl11, and of course costs more mana.

(this is just my speculation, though it has some basis as it seems devs usually use same mana cost for ultis).


Now to a personal thinking of mine:
I just find it sad that when wizards don't have their lvl79 skills or sage/demon they are dubbed as "nonfactors" but when psys don't have any spell above lvl59 they are still considered "end-game" and I've seen plenty of end-game psys on my server. b:surrender

(to the point that there are almost no end-game wizzies... idk if it's people thinking their investment might be bad or something in comparison)

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

HOWEVER, that doesn't say exactly whether a 10% crit or 12% is more favorable, because you CAN crit with 10% one as well.

Me lol'd
/10 char

You're basically saying 40% crit is not necessarily favorable to 1% crit. I mean hey, you can crit with 1% too.

Bobobobobo - Lost City

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

- TT-nirvana gear basically gives you permanent buffs, meaning your survivability is higher. Why? Because arcane gear doesn't add mentionworthy pdef, and in magic fights there's always debuffs involved.
- Lunar-nirvana has better resistances period
- Far more HP from refines > one extra socket
- Ability to put DEF lvl2 stones in gear helps a lot more than anything else. Why? Because like you said, you already have plenty of pdef from well refined ornaments


Rather than wasting my time explaining it to you I'll show you what your awful idea does to an endgame mage:
http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=86f5596da508b9d9

Your idea... with an amazing 7.7k pdef self buffed as sage. Not so good eh, unless you refuse to leave safezone with buffs and force log when you get purged in TW.

Lets give up 12% channeling.

http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c77b50961c00ecd4

Editted a lv100 top so it would be equal to a TT-nirvana top. 25 extra DEF level. 400 extra pdef. 2% extra crit. And keep in mind, this comes with "passive" +8% pdef and +16% mdef buffs.

What do we lose? 12% channeling, 400 HP, a little base mdef, 100 damage in pvp (before reductions) and 2/4% resistance. Ofcourse you could switch some stuff for lunar nirvana and get 5% extra attack level, which is probably better since you'd only lose 2/4% extra, but you'd get slightly more base stat along with the attack level.


So ignoring the mostly minor details, you end up with this:
25 DEF lvl, 2% crit, 4/8% extra resistances
vs
5 ATT lvl, 12% channeling, 400 HP


Gee. It's your call, "kid".

And what about nirvana glaive/wand, to keep 10% chan, even if it would hit little less than rank8 if one socketed ; even if i dont know real numbers after pvp reduction, think it would be minimal difference.

After all Wiz need some chan, especially demon ones, to be able to use D.Pyro instead of pyro, with wellspring quaff on.

What weapon would you get kristoph, i'd like to know