Hp/Mp Charm Tics

AngelOfLies - Heavens Tear

Baltonus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

bcause charms are expensive, and some need them for tw/pk and good clerics aren't suppose to let your hp drop under 1/2

1, ive been in loads of situations where ive had to do a few other things where im healing about every1 else in squad so its bound to happen that someones charm ticks. and 2 i agree charms r expensive, but ya u bought them for a reason and if they tick big whoop imo. i ran a 1-2 once with another cleric and myself, first boss cleric just dd's, i get pissed off and tell him to heal, he goes off about saying that he doesnt want his mp charm to tick while i waisted about 10 sesame keeping up my mana to heal. i agree u bought the charm, so let it tick. in my time playing PWI ive bough 2 charms, 1 gold mp 1 gold hp. my clerics gotten 4 free charms, 2 mp 2 hp bronze, so has my veno. my cleric/veno/psy all got the free platnium one so i dont care if it ticks. but i do wish that their was like some button that stopped it from ticking, like putting it on freeze, until u needed it. i mean i agree i like charms for tt/bh/ff etc. espcially being cleric having a few hp/mp charms is nice.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

It is simple people don't worry about a cleric's MP charm because we are just 'doing our job' and if we require a charm to do it then that is just tough luck. However, HP charms are alot more important than an MP charm, i mean how dare any cleric allow a HP charm to tick?

Truth is as long as it isn't their charm ticking they don't mind.

I love when someone tells me not to let their charm tick because i will just let it tick on purpose just to annoy the person b:victory.

AngelOfLies - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i mean i agree i like charms for tt/bh/ff etc. espcially being cleric having a few hp/mp charms is nice.

Why would you need either charm for any of these? Charms are pointless and wasteful except for PK and TW. If people still have charms they deserve them to tick repeatedly for spending so much on something so wasteful b:chuckle.

Kilala - Lost City

mp charms should tick when u reach mp running low!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Not half wayb:angry

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Krisnda - Lost City wrote: »

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/19236

Why not just use these for HP?

As has been explained several times, Herb Yuanxiao replenishes MP faster than a cleric can lose MP. Crab Jiaozi does not replenish HP faster than a tank can lose HP. So Yuanxiao can be a 100% replacement for a MP charm. Aside from a huge manadrain like Harpy Wraith, there is no situation where an MP charm will let you do something you cannot do with Yuanxiao.

The same is not true for Jiaozi. There are lots of situations where Jiaozi will not save you whereas a HP charm can. Since Crab Jiaozi only gives you 350 hp/sec, any time you're taking more than 350 hp/sec of damage, the HP charm will be better. Any time you need instant healing and 350 hp/sec will not help you, the HP charm will be better.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I love when someone tells me not to let their charm tick because i will just let it tick on purpose just to annoy the person b:victory.

If people still have charms they deserve them to tick repeatedly for spending so much on something so wasteful b:chuckle.

I wonder how often you sit there and let people's charms tick to passive-aggressively provoke them just to see if they'll react.

Maybe when you grow up and go into some really difficult instances, you'll see that a HP charm is not just a luxury but kind of a necessity. :P

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I wonder how often you sit there and let people's charms tick to passive-aggressively provoke them just to see if they'll react.

Maybe when you grow up and go into some really difficult instances, you'll see that a HP charm is not just a luxury but kind of a necessity. :P

If people are going to sit there and complain about their charm i will let it tick excessively, if they dont complain if it ticks then ill do my best to stop it ticking. It's the complaining that annoys me not to mention annoying up tight people is fun.

RB, TT3-2, TT3-3, Lunar and Nirvana are only places i haven't been so apart from that nowhere else needs a charm. However, im not sure about Belial in TT2-3 because there are no damn squads for him that i can see, i join squads for him and then noone ever wants to do him b:surrender.

Xiiia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

dont like charm tic. DONT BUY IT..
IF you die, you die.
IF you want to try to prevent your death. use hp pot / charms.

Too expensive..dont use it
you want everything free..no on complain go get your free thing.

IF you want to play a free game and want it to be easy, there is a very simple way

go play MAPLEsTOry..

Kind of common sense yet people still complain b:surrender.

truekossy

Krisnda - Lost City wrote: »

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/19236

Why not just use these for HP?

See: Reason 3. Also consider the fact that an endgame wiz with wellspring quaff may barely be able to break past 18k MP (3.6x the MP recovered by MP foods). On the other hand, a well equipped barb... and most CS powered characters in general, have very few issues breaking past 12k HP (which is the same 3.6x HP foods). In addition, since a HP charm ticks at half HP, it's actually healing you for MORE than that 3500 HP over 10 seconds of cooldown for anyone that breaks 7k HP. The MP charm, on the other hand, would only be healing you for 4500 MP over its cooldown time assuming you actually manage to get to 18k MP. So even then MP foods can still cover it fairly well.

So as I said before, find me an equivalent of those for HP and then we can talk about HP charms vs MP charms.



Edit: What some of you clerics need to realize, since I'm noticing it's mostly clerics here that seem to get so upset when this is brought up, is hat as a tank or DD, we're not expecting you to keep our charms from ever ticking. That's completely unreasonable since just by having one and being in a squad with imperfect humans, we've guaranteed ourselves to have charm ticks. What annoys us is when the clerics get lazy BECAUSE we have charms and let them tick more often than necessary. As a cleric, your main role in a squad is normally heals and support. So if you see someone has a charm and, instead of healing and supporting like you normally would if they were uncharmed, you goof around, get lazy, or flat out don't bother healing anymore, that causes problems with them. You can't liken it to MP charms because in almost every case, Yuanxiao can effectively replace a MP charm while being cheaper. When I get my cleric a MP charm, it's due to me being lazy and I have nobody to blame but myself when it ticks. Plus it will tick regardless of whether or not I heal and support my squad properly... so why the hell would I not do my job properly?

Basically, if they yell at you over their charm ticking when it can't be avoided, it's stupid and careless of them. When you go about doing things that cause their charms to tick in situations where you could easily prevent it, it's the other way around.

Krisnda - Lost City

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As has been explained several times, Herb Yuanxiao replenishes MP faster than a cleric can lose MP. Crab Jiaozi does not replenish HP faster than a tank can lose HP. So Yuanxiao can be a 100% replacement for a MP charm. Aside from a huge manadrain like Harpy Wraith, there is no situation where an MP charm will let you do something you cannot do with Yuanxiao.

The same is not true for Jiaozi. There are lots of situations where Jiaozi will not save you whereas a HP charm can. Since Crab Jiaozi only gives you 350 hp/sec, any time you're taking more than 350 hp/sec of damage, the HP charm will be better. Any time you need instant healing and 350 hp/sec will not help you, the HP charm will be better.

Oh ok, i see now.

Krisnda - Lost City

Xiiia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

dont like charm tic. DONT BUY IT..
IF you die, you die.
IF you want to try to prevent your death. use hp pot / charms.

Too expensive..dont use it
you want everything free..no on complain go get your free thing.

IF you want to play a free game and want it to be easy, there is a very simple way

go play MAPLEsTOry..

Also this ^. Why buy a charm if all your going to do is save it? And for all of the Cleric flame, think about this: What if all the clerics in the game just decided to not do anything for anybody for like a week? Charm ticking's the least of your problems.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If people are going to sit there and complain about their charm i will let it tick excessively, if they dont complain if it ticks then ill do my best to stop it ticking. It's the complaining that annoys me not to mention annoying up tight people is fun.

Fair enough.

RB, TT3-2, TT3-3, Lunar and Nirvana are only places i haven't been so apart from that nowhere else needs a charm. However, im not sure about Belial in TT2-3 because there are no damn squads for him that i can see, i join squads for him and then noone ever wants to do him b:surrender.

lol, you will need MP charm with belial. Many of them. lol

A few bosses can hit really hard, or decently fast. In those times when my charm does tick, you're happy it does otherwise it would probably mean party wipe.

And it's not that I don't disregard cleric's costs at all, I'm very aware and I take good care of my clerics. You guys do burn up a lot of MP and I know that. However much of my cost of tanking shouldn't include excessive charm waste. I have to pay repairs, apo pots when necessary as well as genie stamina... my costs associated with running an 3-3 costs 85k in repairs, maybe 30-40k in genie stamina and probably 250-400k in charm usage... you certainly aren't going to use that much MP in one run and if you have a HP charm at ll, it probably won't tick more than once or twice.

Add in the fact that a high 9x sage can mostly heal without mp potting, clerics should be a bit more conscious of a tank's HP charm usage.

dieseasily

I don't normally get annoyed if my charm tics a couple times during a BH. BUT....

A couple days ago I was doing a BH89 Brim run with a cleric, her hubby the tank, and 3 other DDers. Through out the run the cleric spent her time healing the tank and rarely the rest of the party. We get up to everyones favorite puppy dog, Abomination, and the cleric proceedes to just heal the tank. No BB, no party heal, not even herself. Most people do not notice because what lvl 95 cleric doesn't know that she should be healing everyone on a boss that had a spamed AOE attack? My charm tics probably twice before I noticed and backed up, not that moving does much good against a boss with AOE and Random Argo... Then the 3rd tick. at which point I go to say something... Just in time to be the next random target for a 3 direct attacks and a final AOE that kills me. Now I know what you must be thinking... NOOB me for dying... EXCEPT... one of the other DDers died just before me cause she had no charm and could not keep up with pots, one was not paying attn because the cleric was lvl 95 and he was mostly outside the aoe range until the boss choose me to attack, and the last, the bm, lost his charm during this combat after he had time to ask for healing several times, followed by the "My charm is almost gone can I get some **gd** healing?" He was lucky though, he was able to pot thru it though as soon as the first person died he stopped attacking. The cleric died about the same time as the rest of us because of the same aoe.... And the tank hubby, well he doesn't die. The rest of us died when there was about 40k HP left. He was able to pot/charm himself thru to a kill. He and the BM are the only ones to get credit, and of course because we were dead they got all the drops. At least the drops sucked. Its about this time that the Noob cleric comments come into play, the complaints about charms ticking, and the black listing happens.

I would not normaly complain about my charm ticking but I definately did complain this time because I bought the charm to save my **** in the situations that a cleric just could not predict, or when I am solo grinding. Not for when some dumb cleric doesn't know how to party heal.

Tweakin - Dreamweaver

Well sometimes people get a little too hung up on charm ticks. Generally it is good practice for a cleric to avoid letting peoples charms tick, basically out of respect for the fact tthat charms are expensive, and best saved for times that actually call for them.

That being said, it is harder and more expensive for a cleric to keep charms from ticking, than it is to simply keep people alive.

Personally I wish we could just take charms on and off as we see fit. Understanding the finnancial reasons as to why that will never happen, I don't expect to see that. In the meantime we just have to do the best we can, acceptting the fact that it will never be good enough for some.

Kyrozoan - Sanctuary

I have only read like the first page and got too lazy to read the rest.

Once, when I was doing BH59 Zimo, we got lucky and got i think a 9x cleric...not really sure though. When we got to the boss, the cleric got lazy and set up BB on zimo causing my charm to tick excessively and what really annoys me is that Zimo doesnt aoe and if the cleric really wanted to be lazy they should either re-roll or jam a coin in the keyboard or set up a macro.

So i think that people are only complaining because of the excessive ammounts of ticks some clerics will allow in a non-dire situation and with the current prices of charms, we have the rights to complain. Sure, we can use pots but with an average cleric it shouldnt be nessissary for pots in instances. The only reason I got a charm is as a back up, not as a primary heal. And hp pots arent as great as a stacked IH

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

See, here's the funny thing... I like to pay the Cleric.

I figure they're burning through their MP Charm and/or Pots for my benefit, so I'll throw them some coins and maybe a stack of Sesames. I know not everybody can afford to do this, but they're actually a pretty cheap date. Even way back in the days when I thought 1 million coins was a lot of money I still paid the Cleric whatever I could and they were thrilled somebody was actually willing to help them out with their mana costs.

The result is this -> They pay extra attention to doing a good job and when/if my HP charm ticks they immediately notice and apologize, even though I really don't mind.

So there's the solution: If you want to keep your HP charm safe, pay the Cleric.

Anchali - Heavens Tear

ha ha ha ...

i might be evil.. but when someone (usually the fail barb) complains about his charm, i let that TICK TOCK away. b:bye .. at the moment they say "dont let charm tick" that is the moment i stop spamming. maybe toss in a heal here and there so he doesnt die in case his charm is in cooldown. and if he leaves squad, awesome... so i can bring in my fake pwi husband's barb. problem solved!

Edit--

WarrenWolfy its true LMFAO i haven't noticed that before. whoever decides to pay my cleric with sesame (though i have a lot), i set one of my eye aside for that person's sake LOL ... damn.... and that is the ONLY person that can say "dont let my charm tick" and i'll be like "oki dokie!" LMFAO .. so yah..if you complain about charm ticks, pay me. and i'll take extra care of you.

hallsvaporaction

Playing my cleric, I have different tactics when I have a mp charm equipped. With the charm equipped, I can put up a plume shell and heal that crazy dying tank that hasn't grabbed all aggro. When I have no mp charm, I may need to just let that tank die and head to town with all the mobs standing over him and what not. No, herbal yuanxiao isn't enough when your mp bar is depleting fast from all the physical beat downs. With a mp charm + plume shell + wings of protection + guardian light + holy path, I can safely grab all the fake wurlords in TT2-3 while the rest of the squad run over to the teleport spot. Without the charm, they may just decide to keep me for dinner.

So mp charm has real uses for me in PvE, not just something I use when I'm lazy. I have absolute domain and I have the protection pots, but nothing backs me up like a mp charm + plume shell for 20 seconds.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Anchali - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ha ha ha ...

i might be evil.. but when someone (usually the fail barb) complains about his charm, i let that TICK TOCK away. b:bye .. at the moment they say "dont let charm tick" that is the moment i stop spamming. maybe toss in a heal here and there so he doesnt die in case his charm is in cooldown. and if he leaves squad, awesome... so i can bring in my fake pwi husband's barb. problem solved!

You're one of those 'last resort' clerics. We'll take you, only when other options aren't available and we're desperate for a cleric, otherwise when we hear such a cleric in need of a party in guild chat we just usually lol in whispers or joke about it in vent. Everyone else does too, but most of the people won't say it to you directly cause they aren't confrontational like that. lol

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear

My only post for this topic...if you reply to me I wont see it cause I wont be back...

Topic: SUCK IT UP AND MOVE ON IT'S ONLY PIXELS.

You don't like your charm ticking, don't use them. Use pots that's why they are there. My god, you charm users that QQ about your charm ticking really need to take a break from the game a realize it's a GAME. Guess what, some people don't use charms, why? Because we know how to survive with out them. TW/PK okay use a charm it's going to tick, why because it's saving your life. Seriously though stop QQing about it and move on. Nobody is perfect. You bought it as a resort to save your life, guess what it's doing that and you complain about it.

b:bye

Torsay - Sanctuary

axt57 wrote: »

You can't unequip a charm.

If there is a cleric in my squad and I'm at 60%, I expect a heal. Sadly in many instances this does not happen, or they heal right after a charm tick, which is really annoying.

Another good one is clerics too afraid of stealing agro. Good example on my alt - port into BH79 and get attacked by patrol archer while map loads. Lvl 9x Cleric just stands there, and waits for me to attack, after which my charm has already ticked once or twice.

****

You are one of those that should try playing a high level cleric for a while.

Our skills are just so slow and switching between people doesn't help it at all.

I am also one of those who would wait and let you tick before you hit the mob. It's your choice to have aggro.

Sinalee - Dreamweaver

Reason ppl don't want their charm to tick, is that its a "waste" of money if it can be prevented.

Also i don't quite agree with the ppl claiming that HP charms r more nessesary than MP charms, thats just because they don't have skills eating on their MP as much as the ppl using the MP charms.

Like HP pots MP pots heal over time. For a barb it seem fast, cuz the barb got little MP, but hre HP pots seem slow and too little, cause they got huge hp. For a wizard with low HP and high MP its exactly the same just that the MP pots can barely been seen when used, and the HP pots almost heal fully.

In many ways those having long time aoe skills can not keep up their mana without a charm, so saying a MP charm is lazyness is bull ****. For melee classes its somethign else they can easy do without them.

But as said, ppl but charms to use em, but there is no reason to waste em. What i find lame though is that MP charms need to tick at freaking 75%, who need their mp recovered at 75%? i can understand HP tick at 50%, cuz a 2nd hit when at 50% could be deadly. But u do not need ur MP charm ticking at 75% -.- 40 or 30% would be early enough, its just wasting. Even a few normal small skills will make it tick, instead if it didn't tick u could let normal regen fill up while going to nxt mob.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Sinalee - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also i don't quite agree with the ppl claiming that HP charms r more nessesary than MP charms, thats just because they don't have skills eating on their MP as much as the ppl using the MP charms.

If all you do is BH and lower TT instances, I can understand why you say that. In many higher instances a HP charm is pretty much essential.

Like HP pots MP pots heal over time. For a barb it seem fast, cuz the barb got little MP, but hre HP pots seem slow and too little, cause they got huge hp. For a wizard with low HP and high MP its exactly the same just that the MP pots can barely been seen when used, and the HP pots almost heal fully.

In many ways those having long time aoe skills can not keep up their mana without a charm, so saying a MP charm is lazyness is bull ****. For melee classes its somethign else they can easy do without them.

At least get your facts straight...

The best MP food recovers 5000MP over 20 seconds. There are no skills that use more MP than can be recovered by these pots.

The best HP food recovers 3500 HP over 20 seconds. Many bosses can hit for 5-8k per hit. HP pots just are not sufficient.

PlumDumb - Heavens Tear

This is why my bm never EVER uses hp charm..why? because i depend on my skills+genie and my team.Teaches my clerics to be aware of all in squad no matter what...charms make u weak...also charms make pk stank as well.its surprising how many stank people get saved by the bell.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Another good one is clerics too afraid of stealing agro. Good example on my alt - port into BH79 and get attacked by patrol archer while map loads. Lvl 9x Cleric just stands there, and waits for me to attack, after which my charm has already ticked once or twice.

Lol? I would have done the same thing.


Lol I'm glad my charm is out on barb, I died so many times lately lol XD (especially while running in 3-3 hehe) But atleast it's cheap now. But the number of squad whipes has also increased by a lot...

Must - Lost City

And some of this ppl talking here want the bless form bhs/fbs/tts removed but dont want his/her charm to tick....b:chuckle so funny

Must - Lost City

K, not to rage more heres my barb view.

I agree charms are made to tick if it tick on a instance well its meant to....

There are many factors we should see first.

1 is the cleric trustable

2 the cleric has good ekips?(having more mag heal are powerfull or am i wrong?

3 ive a played played a cleric for a while and had a cleric GF for 1 year i know its not that easy too keep the pt full healed its like when ppl complain when we loose agro on frosat mobs and wiz or vclerixc dies some ppl when something goes wrong usually blame barb or cleric, specially on lower lvls...

Myralis - Sanctuary

axt57 wrote: »

Another good one is clerics too afraid of stealing agro. Good example on my alt - port into BH79 and get attacked by patrol archer while map loads. Lvl 9x Cleric just stands there, and waits for me to attack, after which my charm has already ticked once or twice.

Lol thats awesome.
Must have been me. Are you really expecting me to die for you to a silly mob just cause you cant hit be bothered to go and hit it?
If you want heals, make sure you got agro. Noone dies for you cause youre a sloth in attacking



On topic: I havent been charmed since my early 70s. Theres better methods.
And well, charms are there to save your life. Better be happy you didnt die if you ran into an idiot cleric than rage at him. Theres the biggest idiots in every class b:chuckle

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Myralis - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lol thats awesome.
Must have been me. Are you really expecting me to die for you to a silly mob just cause you cant hit be bothered to go and hit it?
If you want heals, make sure you got agro. Noone dies for you cause youre a sloth in attacking

As a 9x cleric you can't take out a single archer in fb79 and would just sit there and let their charm tick if they were afk? Are you really so squishy that you can't even kill a mob without a meatshield? lol

Myralis - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

As a 9x cleric you can't take out a single archer in fb79 and would just sit there and let their charm tick if they were afk? Are you really so squishy that you can't even kill a mob without a meatshield? lol

Show me a person who is afk and still runs into fb79 at the same time.
And as for 'squishy'...
Most people enter instance with no buffs on.

Dunno, maybe I expect too much from people if they should at least try taking out what they got after them b:chuckle

Oh and hay troll

Pervera - Lost City

Krisnda - Lost City wrote: »

Ok, so heres my question:

Hp/Mp charms, whether bronze or platinum, are bought for the purpose of replenishing a persons Hp or Mp. People such as Clerics use them to keep skills such as BB/RB, or just spamming IH. Barbs and BM's use them so that they can Tank longer (if there is no cleric healing them, or if something went wrong in a squad) and not lose HP.

Getting to the point of this, why do people complain (especally HP charm users) about having their charm tic? The point of having a charm period is to use it. If you were going to buy a charm with the purpose of saving it, then why not just buy/make potions? Its much cheaper than buying charms, and you can use them whenever you want. Because all i see in squads are things such as "Cleric, dont let my charm tic" or "man BB is ticking the mess out of my charm". Why buy something you dont even want to use?

Note: not trying to flame charm users, i was just intrested in the logic behind this b:surrender

Theres no logic, thats the same as complaining IRL about $ spend on anything. Some ppl just enjoy the life and understand that cash is to be spend and some will cry and whine about every single penny. Thats it.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Myralis - Sanctuary wrote: »

Show me a person who is afk and still runs into fb79 at the same time.
And as for 'squishy'...
Most people enter instance with no buffs on.

Dunno, maybe I expect too much from people if they should at least try taking out what they got after them b:chuckle

Oh and hay troll

Still, sounds more selfish than selfless. So if I'm killing a mob, see you aggro one, you wouldn't mind if you knew I could easily take aggro of it and didn't because it would require a little effort?

Some might call me a troll, but I always pose valid questions and counterpoints... for the most part.