If you think PWI is easy now...

Solandri - Heavens Tear

MrBladey - Lost City wrote: »

Theoretically if you steamroll it with a full ten man squad in a low amount of time considering the OPedness overall wouldn't you get more drops since you can do some many in such a low amount of time?

No. Adding more people to a squad only helps to a point, beyond which adding more people actually hurts. The reason is that you're not constantly fighting when you do a TT run. A significant portion of the time is spent running between mobs and bosses. This lay time does not change regardless of the number of people you have. If you have a lot of people, the fights become very short, meaning you are spending the vast majority of your time running instead of fighting.

For example, let's take a simplified hypothetical 1-boss TT run. Say it takes 5 min of running to get to the boss, and takes a solo player 30 min to kill the boss. That's a total of 35 min per kill per person.

Now add a second person. In reality, the 2nd person cuts down the kill time by more than half (with just one person, they're mostly healing instead of fighting). But for simplicity let's say the 2nd person cuts the fight time in half. So 5 min of running, and 15 min of fighting. Total is 20 min, or 40 min if you kill the boss once for each person.

Third person. Run time is 5 min, fight time is cut to a third, or 10 min. Total is 15 min, or 45 min to kill the boss once for each person.

...

Tenth person. Run time is 5 min, fight time is cut to a tenth, or 3 min. Total is 8 min, or 80 min to kill the boss once for each person.

So for the simplified case, each person you add to the squad actually makes things worse from the standpoint of TT mats per person.

From the real-game testing I've done, the sweet spot seems to be around 3-4 people. The different classes bring different debuffs and abilities to the squad, creating a synergistic effect which improves kill time beyond what you'd expect for just adding another body. e.g. Veno Amp, cleric party buffs and defense debuffs, a barb's hp (allowing a cleric to squeeze some DD in instead of spamheal), etc. So the kill time per person goes down til you have about 3-4 people. Beyond that, the abilities are mostly duplicated so the benefit you get from adding another squad member is small or nonexistent. It doesn't compensate for the worsening of the ratio of running time to killing time, and consequently adding more people makes it take longer to get the same number of mats for each person.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

This will make game a lot easier (well might). True, but seriously, if you don't like having squad with 10 people, don't do squad of 10. Like myself, I keep numbers low in squads. Making big numbers in teams are usually from squads. Big groups are too much of a problem... more than 4 people is too much of a hassle already. So why make more people join your squad just to do PVE? Does this make sense at all if you even bother? I do have a bad feeling if this is implemented it will make a lot of players even worse than they are now.


But for world boss, it could be a good thing. Learn to live with a giant squad max cap. You don't need a full squad to do something -_-". I fail to see what is bad about the squad of 10 people. Its not like I go no more than minimum amount of groups anyways. If you guys don't like it, don't squad too much people then, not hard to do. I personally won't do this either, implemented or not

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lol, PvE in this game is already boring as hell :

cs : wait 10 minutes
wq : fly around
bh : doh, do your job and it's over before you know it
new attendance quest : wait an hr
...etc etc...

Just do dailies and lvl up, use Hyper exp for a few quests and lvl up....
Pay throught the nose for gear/items, go to TW, last less then 5 minutes...

game over.

I'm slowly moving over to another game tbh, because all the devs/management do is mess up the entire game and take away any challenges and FUN.

10 people in a Squad ? Wth are they gonna do in TT/Frost/Lunar....etc ? look how the others fight ?

sorry for double post, but thats not PVE, thats PLVL.

Tiageos - Sanctuary

I remember ppl asking about increasing the squad size when the TB expansion was coming out. Spoons said that they had no plans to increase the squad size ever. Of course, he also said the bulbfish mount was going to be like the goldmane lion and never in the boutique. I see it happening. And yeah it's gonna make it so ppl skate through stuff. I mean really, FCC with a 10 person squad? Where's the challenge? They will either overcompensate to balance it and make instances way harder, but only increase the blessing to +15, or they won't do anything and everyone will skate along. I'm betting on the latter based on the recent updates to promote insane noob leveling. And yeah It's gonna **** the PVE servers.

Although like someone mentioned earlier, they will probably make it a cash shop item to purchase. Cost 70 gold.

Shredclaw - Sanctuary

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol, how the heck you lose money in BH? b:laugh . I get like 200k-1mil from marketing in BH exp sink ftw



On topic... 10 people... yeah rebirth will get easier, still will be a problem because a lot of noobs these days. I pretty much never rely on BH to level up... or I don't really care for leveling either. It will kill PVE? Thats why the game gets easier? XD. Now I understand why people saying PVE is easy now... you got to rely on full squad to PVE ? ~___________~ WTH?

You done bh69? 79? Anything past that point would take all day to do, unless it's wined. Wines are expensive. And half the time the people setting up the wined runs want to use the wine cost split to make a profit.

This is probably one of the worst things to add to the game so far. Whether you want to keep the squad size low or not, it doesn't matter unless you're the leader. Otherwise, someone can add, and add, and add. If this is implemented I see myself in a lot of 10 person bh (and I feel terribly sorry for the clerics in those squads) regardless of how I wanted it. More people means it's easier to round up on wine splits, thus making more of a profit on something never meant to have cash value.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No. Adding more people to a squad only helps to a point, beyond which adding more people actually hurts. The reason is that you're not constantly fighting when you do a TT run. A significant portion of the time is spent running between mobs and bosses. This lay time does not change regardless of the number of people you have. If you have a lot of people, the fights become very short, meaning you are spending the vast majority of your time running instead of fighting.

For example, let's take a simplified hypothetical 1-boss TT run. Say it takes 5 min of running to get to the boss, and takes a solo player 30 min to kill the boss. That's a total of 35 min per kill per person.

Now add a second person. In reality, the 2nd person cuts down the kill time by more than half (with just one person, they're mostly healing instead of fighting). But for simplicity let's say the 2nd person cuts the fight time in half. So 5 min of running, and 15 min of fighting. Total is 20 min, or 40 min if you kill the boss once for each person.

Third person. Run time is 5 min, fight time is cut to a third, or 10 min. Total is 15 min, or 45 min to kill the boss once for each person.

...

Tenth person. Run time is 5 min, fight time is cut to a tenth, or 3 min. Total is 8 min, or 80 min to kill the boss once for each person.

So for the simplified case, each person you add to the squad actually makes things worse from the standpoint of TT mats per person.

From the real-game testing I've done, the sweet spot seems to be around 3-4 people. The different classes bring different debuffs and abilities to the squad, creating a synergistic effect which improves kill time beyond what you'd expect for just adding another body. e.g. Veno Amp, cleric party buffs and defense debuffs, a barb's hp (allowing a cleric to squeeze some DD in instead of spamheal), etc. So the kill time per person goes down til you have about 3-4 people. Beyond that, the abilities are mostly duplicated so the benefit you get from adding another squad member is small or nonexistent. It doesn't compensate for the worsening of the ratio of running time to killing time, and consequently adding more people makes it take longer to get the same number of mats for each person.

+1

Solandri said it all. There's a certain number of people in a squad that is just the "perfect" sort of number. Too many and it seems cool, but the actual maths prove that it's not so effective or easy and actually quite harmful.

Seriously. ↑ says it all.

Ulquira - Lost City

I really dont get what all this QQ'ing is about. . .

I see a 10 person squad as a good thing~

BHs~cheaper wines-or not even needed, also the DD/tank cleric ratio would be much better
HH~Majority of people run 4 or less people at once. . team limit is 6 atm, if its increased to ten. . wow what'ya know nothing changes anyway. Instead it just gives some of the lower levels a better opportunity to try and farm their gear.
Frost~sure you could go through with a ten man team n crash it, at the cost of experience but honestly whos going to do it?! I know i wouldnt. Once again though it would aid the lower players in getting a successful run.
RB~ Really depends on whether or not they change the RB rules to ten people or not.
If they dont, nothing at all changes. If it is changed to ten. . well its good for leveling at least Would make getting our OHT keys easier b:cute Also a shorter rebirth would be nice, 2-3 hrs of sitting in one spot staring at a screen not really capable of leaving sux.
PVP/TW~sounds like the opportunity to have more fun with these two, as well as making it easier for leaders to assign squads.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Ulquira - Lost City wrote: »

I really dont get what all this QQ'ing is about. . .

I see a 10 person squad as a good thing~

BHs~cheaper wines-or not even needed, also the DD/tank cleric ratio would be much better
HH~Majority of people run 4 or less people at once. . team limit is 6 atm, if its increased to ten. . wow what'ya know nothing changes anyway. Instead it just gives some of the lower levels a better opportunity to try and farm their gear.
Frost~sure you could go through with a ten man team n crash it, at the cost of experience but honestly whos going to do it?! I know i wouldnt. Once again though it would aid the lower players in getting a successful run.
RB~ Really depends on whether or not they change the RB rules to ten people or not.
If they dont, nothing at all changes. If it is changed to ten. . well its good for leveling at least Would make getting our OHT keys easier b:cute Also a shorter rebirth would be nice, 2-3 hrs of sitting in one spot staring at a screen not really capable of leaving sux.
PVP/TW~sounds like the opportunity to have more fun with these two, as well as making it easier for leaders to assign squads.

If everything would be easier why we should play this game? When every1 will have everything?

SkSpawneR - Sanctuary

So i think PWI is gonna lose a lot of people if they try to make this change.. at-least i hope they don't bring this change on PVE server's.

Swaze - Sanctuary

Simple fact of the matter is whether or not PWI decides to implement this squad increase. Just because PWI-CH has it doesnt mean we will.


Other versions have had player housing, bound breakers, lvl4 factions. The first two were explicitly said never to come out on our version. Shrug, will just have to wait and see

volst

Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Other versions have had player housing, bound breakers, lvl4 factions.

lolwut. You mean private servers?

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear

volst wrote: »

lolwut. You mean private servers?

No...more like the Pay To Play Chinese Version...

Olba - Sanctuary

With the way the current TT mats are split in random squads (Barb>Cleric>DDs), this would leave the lower level DDs with just about nothing. Really, that will just make it so that the lower level DDs will be forced to buy the mats or the gear, which kinda sucks for them.

The only way lower level DDs will have any chance of farming their gear will be faction TTs where they farm until everyone has their mats. And that's definitely bad, since the level caps for the higher level factions that are able to do fast, efficient TTs, is usually in the 80s or 90s. Which pretty much means that all DDs in their 70s will be forced to buy their gear.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Shredclaw - Sanctuary wrote: »

You done bh69? 79? Anything past that point would take all day to do, unless it's wined. Wines are expensive. And half the time the people setting up the wined runs want to use the wine cost split to make a profit.

Sorry but thats your own fault lol. Wines + leveling out of BHs b:spit . No wonder why you BH people don't make good money and can't buy good gears throught the game without coin sinking. I do the whole thing if I were to farm spirit.

tweakz

Will help the barb/ cleric shortage as now they can help more at a time.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

From the real-game testing I've done, the sweet spot seems to be around 3-4 people. The different classes bring different debuffs and abilities to the squad, creating a synergistic effect which improves kill time beyond what you'd expect for just adding another body. e.g. Veno Amp, cleric party buffs and defense debuffs, a barb's hp (allowing a cleric to squeeze some DD in instead of spamheal), etc. So the kill time per person goes down til you have about 3-4 people. Beyond that, the abilities are mostly duplicated so the benefit you get from adding another squad member is small or nonexistent. It doesn't compensate for the worsening of the ratio of running time to killing time, and consequently adding more people makes it take longer to get the same number of mats for each person.

Except for 3-3 perhaps, where a group of more than 6 people would actually be beneficial.

Also, everyone completely failed to read the translated post. PK was mentioned over a half dozen times in regards to this change. From the sounds of it, PvP is going to be a stronger focus in the future direction of the game than it has been before.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

^^That would be nice, as the changes in the PvE content have left many to seek new forms of entertainment...b:surrender

Cotto - Heavens Tear

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Squad extension stones now only 60 gold!

~purchase to enable you to create/participate in overpowered 10 person squads, this will now make your game much more boring and easier so now all you gotta do is type your credit card numbers and we do all the work for you [note: PWE do not accept responsibility of a game ruined by these items]~


... wait for it *sigh*

Best post ever. +1

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

Oh dear god. 10-man RB. 10-man FC. 10-man TTs when barely nothing drops anyways. Add that to hyper exp, BH, MQ...

If this comes out, well at least I have a backup plan. May not end up quitting, but wow. I play games because I like some sort of challenge. Not exactly what it's gonna be - even with dailies it's debatable.

(My actual challenge is finding decent squads for BHs and FC. Seriously.)

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If everything would be easier why we should play this game? When every1 will have everything?

You can't have everything in this game. There will always be someone with more than you.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can't have everything in this game. There will always be someone with more than you.

No it will not. All is just question of time or money.

Lythiaana - Dreamweaver

Only benefits I could think of about this is less cost split for wined BHs and faster instance runs. However, I can totally see how PvE is just going to go downhill. Dungeons are no longer going to be a challenge, and what?! TT runs better have more mats drop because with 10 people in a squad....sure the TT will go by faster, but people in the last order for drop picking will not get anything they want.....

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Don't get why you all are like oh noo its getting too easy.

squad to 10 changes nothing. your not forced to use 10 ppl for squad. if u do, faster / less profit. still gonna be kinda even. easyer? yes but not like anything in this game really is hard either way.

except bh getting lil cheaper if u go with 10, i dont see it benifit much... go TT with 10 yea blazing fast and nothing at all for lowest DD, only barb/cleric would benefit form that. 80% sure that 75%+ squads jsut will be 6ish as always, same for FC.

its only an option to use..

EthikaII - Heavens Tear

If they do this they need to increase drop rate in TT by x5 or alot of ppl won't even care they'll stick to the 4 members. Otherwise i see alot more ppl in TT not getting a chance at what they want.

ShadowsWrath - Heavens Tear

EthikaII - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If they do this they need to increase drop rate in TT by x5 or alot of ppl won't even care they'll stick to the 4 members. Otherwise i see alot more ppl in TT not getting a chance at what they want.

Nah what they should do is make TT drops based on squad size.

1 person soloing gets less drops than squad of 4 who get less then squad of 10

b:chuckle

Nakhimov - Lost City

LFM ICC 10man need DPS and tanks.


Waaaait, wrong game.

Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear

if they're gonna make a 10 man squad it means one thing: 2 more classes and a new race

jokerxdude

If this is true that means that a new race is going to come out for the other side. It did say Coming Soon.b:thanks

Sand ppl FTW! I want a zombie as a class plox. And they should be called the Cursed race with undead flying mounts.b:chuckle

FrKnDuDe - Harshlands

They should implement squad leveling as they do on a different game I used to play. It was a 6 or 8 person squad. Once you make the squad the squad level would be level 1. As the squad kills mobs their level the squad level goes up similar to character leveling. It would have it's own experience bar so you know when the squad is about to level. Max squad level was 50 meaning. What was the purpose of this?...well the higher the squad level the more experiece the group would gain. At level 50 squad, the exp would be 2x exp if i remember correctly. I believe the game would give an exp and drop incentive every 10 squad levels. It wasn't easy to get to a level 50 squad as squad experience got higher (same as char leveling). Oh and the squad would get more squad expirence the higher level mobs they kill. If server DC or squad dismissed you would start all over.

This would be a nice feature so people get into more squads instead of trying to solo. Of course you would have people QQ like any implementation or enhancement introduce in game but that life and business. No way around it except accept or leave.

Astoru - Heavens Tear

I predict that people aren't going to do TT with 10 people even if this does happen. Why?

How many drops do you end up getting after distribution between 6 people? Now imagine 10. Pfft, **** that, if we can do it with 6, why do it with more?