Fun BH XD

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have yet to see a Paladin for myself on PWI, and to be honest I don't really care if I do or don't see one in the future. Personally, I like my clerics to be healers, but this isn't to say a Paladin build would be unsuccessful nor useless in a squad. This is just my personal opinion that when I see a cleric, I like to know they can heal, much like when I see a barb I like to know they can tank.

That BM was a failure. To die so quickly with heals at his level seems to suggest he had something very wrong with his own build - that wasn't done on purpose, to boot - and the fact he was so cocky about it just makes me laugh.

Of course, even though he completely failed, I can see why he would be angry about not getting rez'd. Yes, he was a jackass. Yes, he failed. However, it would have been nice if you could have been the mature person in this situation and rez'd him anyway. If he snapped at you afterwards, well, you can go ahead and let him die if he wants to that badly. But the fact you didn't rez him does sort of make you as immature as he was.

I'm all for letting a failure learn their lesson and complain about it, but I'm also a big fan of people being more mature than the original ignoramus and being big enough to say "I don't like you, I won't do this again, but I'll rez you for now because I'm the better person here".

When you get **** alot for being a cleric and having the blame for other people mistakes, its hard to just bite your tongue. Personally i wouldn't of ress'd either as clerics get alot of **** day in and day out. Today some idiot was raging on WC about a 101 cleric who fails because a tanks charm ticked, there is only so much one person can take before they tell you to shove it up your **** lol.

Kimbley - Harshlands wrote: »

It is not just the OP's happiness that matters though... If his uselessness causes a squad wipe or something than he is affecting other player's happiness with the game in general. In an extreme example: If all of the clerics suddenly realized how much fun it is to be a paladin and then restatted as such, what would be the general response? Would you be just fine with it? Would you be Happy with it?


I have nothing against one guy feeling special/happy with his style, but i have a problem with all the people who go off with their unique style and then insist on their usefulness in most squads.

The OP didn't cause a wipe tho, he done what he did well it was a BM doing his proper role that screwed up. The OP has made it into the 70s which would imply the build is neither useless or that it doesn't work. Also, i can understand how much more fun it would be at times to be a paladin rather than stand there spamming IH all day lol.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Kimbley - Harshlands wrote: »

...i just don't understand how a class... with no physical melee attacks... can hold agro better than a class with skills to deal more damage and in the case of barbs, hold agro...

Two words: Spark Eruption
Aggro is taken if one does more damage than the other. With so many hits that are higher in one period then continued, you will keep tank (unless aggro skill is used). The bm mustve not used skills or his attacks were bland. Whatever the cause, it happened.

And as for what you don't understand: People like to have a pre-set idea of what the other people around them will do when they party together.... if you party with a cleric and find that that cleric is not using any magic and instead beating stuff with a hammer..... then you are disappointed that your assumption was incorrect... this disappointment is followed by annoyance that this person is useless to you in a party... For example, if i were a blademaster at level 50 and you were a paladin-cleric at 50... we have the same gear... I'll be doing more damage, killing faster, and being more of a benefit to this duo than you, who is simply auto-attacking away and causing much less damage than me with my mastery and skills.

True, but it is always the clerics fault if someone dies (sadly some people see it that way). Truth is, if he died it would be on his hands if he died, yet he did not. Thus, learning his build well and keeping the squad safe. Who could ask for a better squad member.

Also the cleric can still use healing skills (You know that equip/unequip weapon thing). I would give to have power like that. I'm greatful for metabolic boost and soul transfusion, but he can heal himself any time he wants. That fused with melee is like your own barb/bm + cleric squad right there.

As for the levels being the same, it can go either or. If the bm knows what he is doing, he would keep aggro. You have to think of stat points as well, because tht comes into play as well. And I'm guessing if the bm keeps tanking then he would heal him (Just because he chose a melee build doesn't mean he lost all his cleric skills).

Idk... i understand that it can be fun, and in the case of veno's be viable... but i don't see how a melee cleric can be better than a blademaster or barbarian unless the barb or bm just flat out sucks...

You' be suprised what people can accomplish.

tweakz

This is why it bothers me when people do WC requests for "cleric" or "barb" needed instead of "tank for" or "healer for". With all the sucky barb tanks, and the shortage of them lately: you'd think people would catch on to the alternatives.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have yet to see a Paladin for myself on PWI, and to be honest I don't really care if I do or don't see one in the future. Personally, I like my clerics to be healers, but this isn't to say a Paladin build would be unsuccessful nor useless in a squad. This is just my personal opinion that when I see a cleric, I like to know they can heal, much like when I see a barb I like to know they can tank.

That BM was a failure. To die so quickly with heals at his level seems to suggest he had something very wrong with his own build - that wasn't done on purpose, to boot - and the fact he was so cocky about it just makes me laugh.

Of course, even though he completely failed, I can see why he would be angry about not getting rez'd. Yes, he was a jackass. Yes, he failed. However, it would have been nice if you could have been the mature person in this situation and rez'd him anyway. If he snapped at you afterwards, well, you can go ahead and let him die if he wants to that badly. But the fact you didn't rez him does sort of make you as immature as he was.

I'm all for letting a failure learn their lesson and complain about it, but I'm also a big fan of people being more mature than the original ignoramus and being big enough to say "I don't like you, I won't do this again, but I'll rez you for now because I'm the better person here".

QFT. I think Clerics are needed everywhere because of their healing Powers. (Stacked IH and BB).

Knowing that a cleric could only heal himself and others to some extent, is very scary unless the boss is so easy to kill without the need of a full time healer.

On the second note, a BM unable to hold aggro is just as bad.

But whatever right? People can always have fun playing failz build.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

QFT. I think Clerics are needed everywhere because of their healing Powers. (Stacked IH and BB).

Knowing that a cleric could only heal himself and others to some extent, is very scary unless the boss is so easy to kill without the need of a full time healer.

On the second note, a BM unable to hold aggro is just as bad.

But whatever right? People can always have fun playing failz build.

Just because you don't approve of it, it doesn't actually make the BUILD a fail.

Do I like psychics? No. Does this make them a fail class? Not at all.

Remember that this issue is opinion based entirely - just because you don't approve it doesn't make it a failure build. Just a build you don't like.
Personally if the paladin cleric can survive and do his quests and play the game how he likes, it's obviously not a fail build because he's not dying all over the place. It's just an unusual and not necessarily approved of build. BIG difference.

The BM is an example of a fail build. He tried to do his build properly yet still dies in three hits with heals. That is the actual fail.

Note the difference.

Aelric - Lost City

Okay so I didn't make it past the first post in this thread... A melee cleric?! HOW!! lol I mean is it really possible? Can you kill/solo anything? Whats your damage like? How can you keep aggro??

LULz lots of questions... but I'm one of those people who liek to do things differently, I was one of the archers running around in Half LA and Half Heavy Armor, with a bow and swords on my skill bar to switch quickly, which actually made sense and was very possible with the skills and effects of STR and DEX and what not... but how could a cleric with an axe be possible? I wanna try! haha

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

Coming from another game where unusual builds were sometimes better than the usual builds they came from, I can understand unusuals builds like melee cleric. Applied to PWI, however... I'm not sure exactly on what it relies on.

- Archers have a ton of dex, I understand the claws/fists.
- Some heavy veno builds have axes, but they also have fox form, melee and debuffs in said form.
- Axe-using cleric? Doesn't make sense to me, but who knows. Might work.

BTW, that was one fail BM. I've had my share of noob moments (one yesterday too *facepalm*) but that's beyond my comprehension.

Saitada - Sanctuary

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've had my share of noob moments (one yesterday too *facepalm*) but that's beyond my comprehension.

Noob Moments... They happen to the best of us.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just because you don't approve of it, it doesn't actually make the BUILD a fail.

Do I like psychics? No. Does this make them a fail class? Not at all.

Remember that this issue is opinion based entirely - just because you don't approve it doesn't make it a failure build. Just a build you don't like.
Personally if the paladin cleric can survive and do his quests and play the game how he likes, it's obviously not a fail build because he's not dying all over the place. It's just an unusual and not necessarily approved of build. BIG difference.

The BM is an example of a fail build. He tried to do his build properly yet still dies in three hits with heals. That is the actual fail.

Note the difference.

Ok... Perhaps, I have been unclear, it's what majority of the PWI population has come to assume that a cleric = healer.

This opinion is pretty widespread.

In fact, I have all the reasons why he is failz in the eyes of people. But it's not worth the trouble to list them out as anyone with intellect can surely know how much he is gimping himself.

Unless this social stigma can be reversed, but I do not see it happening soon.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok... Perhaps, I have been unclear, it's what majority of the PWI population has come to assume that a cleric = healer.

This opinion is pretty widespread.

In fact, I have all the reasons why he is failz in the eyes of people. But it's not worth the trouble to list them out as anyone with intellect can surely know how much he is gimping himself.

He doesn't fail, he is doing something he finds fun so he succeeds, its the people who live by the book day be day and never daring to change the normal that fail.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He doesn't fail, he is doing something he finds fun so he succeeds, its the people who live by the book day be day and never daring to change the normal that fail.

Ditto.

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok... Perhaps, I have been unclear, it's what majority of the PWI population has come to assume that a cleric = healer.

This opinion is pretty widespread.

In fact, I have all the reasons why he is failz in the eyes of people. But it's not worth the trouble to list them out as anyone with intellect can surely know how much he is gimping himself.

Unless this social stigma can be reversed, but I do not see it happening soon.

Correction,
Cleric = healing skills
The way I see it, if he can heal me and I don't die and still DD, I'm happy to have him in my squad.

And don't get me started on that gimping ****. My demon skills allow me to do mag up to 3k-6k without spark or magic wep (That's right, bare-hand). And I have 60 points in magic. 60 POINTS!

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Had a heavy pole wielding cleric as the 2nd cleric in a TT before, and tbh was a damn good player.

At mobs she would run up and melee them and on bosses she would help heal.

All Because she had chosen a unlikely build didnt mean she couldnt BB, purify, or heal when she was needed to.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Thank you for the replies that justifies this build.

So I can actually tell the clerics with the cookie cutter build that they have failz as a cleric. The amount of damage (Mattk) that they can do, or the amount of heal that they can dish out is not comparable to what a HA cleric can do.

So Arcane clerics = epicz failz....b:chuckle

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you for the replies that justifies this build.

So I can actually tell the clerics with the cookie cutter build that they have failz as a cleric. The amount of damage (Mattk) that they can do, or the amount of heal that they can dish out is not comparable to what a HA cleric can do.

So Arcane clerics = epicz failz....b:chuckle

Lol that isn't what we are saying at all. We're just saying that no build should be considered as a fail until fully looked at and taken into consideration.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ditto.




Correction,
Cleric = healing skills
The way I see it, if he can heal me and I don't die and still DD, I'm happy to have him in my squad.

And don't get me started on that gimping ****. My demon skills allow me to do mag up to 3k-6k without spark or magic wep (That's right, bare-hand). And I have 60 points in magic. 60 POINTS!

Yes, I can see your awesome-ness of your build. So Arcane venos cannot be compared to your awesome-ness.

I'm pretty sure an arcane veno being able to deal out much more damage than your current build.

And also, kindly enlighten us on how much does your unique build cost?

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, I can see your awesome-ness of your build. So Arcane venos cannot be compared to your awesome-ness.

I'm pretty sure an arcane veno being able to deal out much more damage than your current build.

And also, kindly enlighten us on how much does your unique build cost?

lol gather you have never tried to actualy kill a heavy veno then ?

They are a very viable PvP build ... Heavy veno with nix b:shocked

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol that isn't what we are saying at all. We're just saying that no build should be considered as a fail until fully looked at and taken into consideration.

If it is a good and efficient build for the general masses, I'm pretty sure most clerics would have gone HA.

Sorry, I forgot that Arcane clerics are the failz build b:chuckle

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol gather you have never tried to actualy kill a heavy veno then ?

They are a very viable PvP build ... Heavy veno with nix b:shocked

If I am looking at purely the PVP viability of this HA build veno for PVP wise- yeah, they do survive. But PVP is not the only aspect in this game.

How well do they do for PVE aspect?

If it's an efficient build and inexpensive build, I'm sure the majority of Arcane veno's would have restated to HA.


Edit: I'm sure if it's so efficient and cheap to go for these unique builds, lotsa current players of various classes would have gone ahead to build them.

The problem is the price tag that comes with these unique builds and the specific requirements that are needed with these builds. Time will be needed to do these builds to look for specific pieces off the market.

Bottomline: People who have followed conventional builds are failz... because we have chosen the cheapest and most efficient of our builds.
Read the Veno forums on this build.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Kimbley - Harshlands wrote: »

It is not just the OP's happiness that matters though... If his uselessness causes a squad wipe or something than he is affecting other player's happiness with the game in general. In an extreme example: If all of the clerics suddenly realized how much fun it is to be a paladin and then restatted as such, what would be the general response? Would you be just fine with it? Would you be Happy with it?

Well, I've never joined a squad claiming to be a healer. Usually the first thing I say is to warn of my build and make sure it's ok with everyone. I do know I haven't slowed down a squad yet, except in those cases when I get forced to be healer. But some squads have set ideas they will not change on (ex, cleric and barb needed for everything). Imo that slows down a squad a lot more than a unique build doing everything they can do help and taking an appropriate role. So many times I've seen bm tanks go down with a proper cleric on drake or glutt, despite the fact I insist (and have) solo healed an arcane tank (with my 5 mag stat).

If all clerics became palidens...what can you do? A game is purely for entertainment purpose, for fun, as a pastime. They aren't obliged to sacrifice that and stick around and keep you alive because you "need" them to make "your" gaming experience fun.

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm all for letting a failure learn their lesson and complain about it, but I'm also a big fan of people being more mature than the original ignoramus and being big enough to say "I don't like you, I won't do this again, but I'll rez you for now because I'm the better person here".

I don't think you read it correctly. The guy was deliberately being a rude idiot and complete **** the entire bh, that's why I didn't rez when he demanded one. He actually did get his rez from the other cleric before the boss died. I'd personally never let someone die just because they messed up, but deliberate rudeness is a different matter.

Aelric - Lost City wrote: »

Okay so I didn't make it past the first post in this thread... A melee cleric?! HOW!! lol I mean is it really possible? Can you kill/solo anything? Whats your damage like? How can you keep aggro??

I get this alot xD One barb thought I had used a reset note at 70, then on finding I didn't insisted I share "my secret" that he stubbornly believed I was hiding. I'll hit 77, finish my 7x set and post my build and how it works mebbe.

Unfortunately, despite spark erupt claiming it "increases weapon damage".... it only works for mag damage Venos however get a nifty phys+mag spark.

Anyway, you're all entitled to whatever opinions you have, good or bad, nice to see all the different responses on the matter. But I'll post a proper thread to discuss the build later, this thread was just to share a funny story ^^

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If it is a good and efficient build for the general masses, I'm pretty sure most clerics would have gone HA.

Sorry, I forgot that Arcane clerics are the failz build b:chuckle

You like throwing the word "fail" around rather a lot. Does it HAVE to be the most effective end-game class ever to be worth using. Heck, anyone without $2k should quit right now cause they'll never be as good as the "cash shop" class. You're playing a computer game, relax a bit.

Kimbley - Harshlands

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, I've never joined a squad claiming to be a healer. Usually the first thing I say is to warn of my build and make sure it's ok with everyone. I do know I haven't slowed down a squad yet, except in those cases when I get forced to be healer. But some squads have set ideas they will not change on (ex, cleric and barb needed for everything). Imo that slows down a squad a lot more than a unique build doing everything they can do help and taking an appropriate role. So many times I've seen bm tanks go down with a proper cleric on drake or glutt, despite the fact I insist (and have) solo healed an arcane tank (with my 5 mag stat).

If all clerics became palidens...what can you do? A game is purely for entertainment purpose, for fun, as a pastime. They aren't obliged to sacrifice that and stick around and keep you alive because you "need" them to make "your" gaming experience fun.



I don't think you read it correctly. The guy was deliberately being a rude idiot and complete **** the entire bh, that's why I didn't rez when he demanded one. He actually did get his rez from the other cleric before the boss died. I'd personally never let someone die just because they messed up, but deliberate rudeness is a different matter.



I get this alot xD One barb thought I had used a reset note at 70, then on finding I didn't insisted I share "my secret" that he stubbornly believed I was hiding. I'll hit 77, finish my 7x set and post my build and how it works mebbe.

Unfortunately, despite spark erupt claiming it "increases weapon damage".... it only works for mag damage Venos however get a nifty phys+mag spark.

Anyway, you're all entitled to whatever opinions you have, good or bad, nice to see all the different responses on the matter. But I'll post a proper thread to discuss the build later, this thread was just to share a funny story ^^

I agree with you, these unique builds aren't useless. It's just that from experience most people who use a build like this aren't like you, they did it because they had no idea how the class worked and just thought that a elf with a hammer and heals was cool. I'm not against paladins, only those who have no idea what they're doing...

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, I can see your awesome-ness of your build. So Arcane venos cannot be compared to your awesome-ness.

-.- I never said I was better. I was making a point with the cleric. Mag still hurts me, I'm not untouchable.

I'm pretty sure an arcane veno being able to deal out much more damage than your current build.

In magic, yes. In physical att., no.

And also, kindly enlighten us on how much does your unique build cost?

Think of a bm/barb and subtract some repair costs due to the pet's damage output (Killing faster and much more to cover repair costs). That's my cost. I'm pure so I don't do that re-stat and I don't search for -requirements thank you very much.

This isn't about me. This is about the axe-cleric. Keep on topic please.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This isn't about me. This is about the axe-cleric. Keep on topic please.

I like you sig :P Mebbe I should be a little more proud of my build too instead of worrying about opinions and admitting to bad points so much.

HA melee veno sounds awesome tbh. And threads gone off-topic as it is lol.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Kimbley - Harshlands wrote: »

I agree with you, these unique builds aren't useless. It's just that from experience most people who use a build like this aren't like you, they did it because they had no idea how the class worked and just thought that a elf with a hammer and heals was cool. I'm not against paladins, only those who have no idea what they're doing...

Majority of these unique builds are people who have read and understood what social stigma and limitations that their build entails.

Just like the OP. Majority of the players just want a smooth ride in and out of BH and do not die inside to lose the exp. They wanna stick to conventional builds to minimize risk.

But the usual classes would have a certain risk factor, as in the barb stats does not allow it to maintain aggro, and same could goes for BM.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I like you sig :P Mebbe I should be a little more proud of my build too instead of worrying about opinions and admitting to bad points so much.

HA melee veno sounds awesome tbh. And threads gone off-topic as it is lol.

Ya, I stopped worrying at lv3X of what people thought. I just see people that want to stick as one thing without an open-mind as this lol

And ya it has XD

Kimbley - Harshlands

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Majority of these unique builds are people who have read and understood what social stigma and limitations that their build entails.

Just like the OP. Majority of the players just want a smooth ride in and out of BH and do not die inside to lose the exp. They wanna stick to conventional builds to minimize risk.

But the usual classes would have a certain risk factor, as in the barb stats does not allow it to maintain aggro, and same could goes for BM.

I'm just speaking from my experience... i've seen a ton of clerics who fail as a "paladin" simply because they had no idea what they were doing in the first place.

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Kimbley - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm just speaking from my experience... i've seen a ton of clerics who fail as a "paladin" simply because they had no idea what they were doing in the first place.

Also seen alot of clerics fail at being clerics

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Considering your on char is on a PvE server the same as me and not many people PK at those levels so id assume your lying. Unless your char's avatar is off or your posting on a alt and in that case it could well be true b:chuckle.

Well, I do it when I can...

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Sorry to bump this up again but seemed a bit silly starting an entirely new thread.

Today we do BH zimo and my paliden has more Hp, attack and magic/phys res than the BM. We compared all stats and anyway, it's pretty obvious since I've been robbing agro off nearly every mob up to the boss. And taking hits no problem. And the squad adamantly makes the BM tank.

Can someone explain this to me? Do they feel it would hurt the guys "BM pride"? Or is it simply that, despite the fact I have decent gear and better stats, since I'm a cleric, melee hits will crumple me regardless, like clerics have a hidden "phys attacks hurt you 200% more" ability?

It's kinda baffling. Rather like making a lv50 barb tank over an 8x bm. Not only is it silly, it endangers the squad. O_o I doubt it's skills, marrow wont help tank zimo and I open with plume shell which makes me almost invulnerable at the start while IH builds up.

And yes, this happens with more than a few squads, though some do listen if I really insist.

Saitada - Sanctuary

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry to bump this up again but seemed a bit silly starting an entirely new thread.

Today we do BH zimo and my paliden has more Hp, attack and magic/phys res than the BM. We compared all stats and anyway, it's pretty obvious since I've been robbing agro off nearly every mob up to the boss. And taking hits no problem. And the squad adamantly makes the BM tank.

Can someone explain this to me? Do they feel it would hurt the guys "BM pride"? Or is it simply that, despite the fact I have decent gear and better stats, since I'm a cleric, melee hits will crumple me regardless, like clerics have a hidden "phys attacks hurt you 200% more" ability?

It's kinda baffling. Rather like making a lv50 barb tank over an 8x bm. Not only is it silly, it endangers the squad. O_o I doubt it's skills, marrow wont help tank zimo and I open with plume shell which makes me almost invulnerable at the start while IH builds up.

And yes, this happens with more than a few squads, though some do listen if I really insist.

People are stupid. They are unable to see past their pre-conceived ideas of something and when faced with information that contradicts their ideals, will still blindly hold to them anyway.

Ignore them, laugh, get a group of people that know you well and tell the rest of them to suck an elf.

~S

Airyll - Dreamweaver

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry to bump this up again but seemed a bit silly starting an entirely new thread.

Today we do BH zimo and my paliden has more Hp, attack and magic/phys res than the BM. We compared all stats and anyway, it's pretty obvious since I've been robbing agro off nearly every mob up to the boss. And taking hits no problem. And the squad adamantly makes the BM tank.

Can someone explain this to me? Do they feel it would hurt the guys "BM pride"? Or is it simply that, despite the fact I have decent gear and better stats, since I'm a cleric, melee hits will crumple me regardless, like clerics have a hidden "phys attacks hurt you 200% more" ability?

It's kinda baffling. Rather like making a lv50 barb tank over an 8x bm. Not only is it silly, it endangers the squad. O_o I doubt it's skills, marrow wont help tank zimo and I open with plume shell which makes me almost invulnerable at the start while IH builds up.

And yes, this happens with more than a few squads, though some do listen if I really insist.

Because they're all stupid in the first place. FB59 bosses are magic anyway - so a cleric would tank just as well as a BM or barb in the first place, Paladin or not.

A lot of noobs these days also only want to see barbs tank, because they don't understand the concept of any other class tanking a boss. I blame oracles.

However... I will say that it was just as pointless to bump this thread as it would have been to start a new one. Just my two cents.