Are veno's really the cheapest class?

/NiKi - Lost City

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

You are certainly stupid. Those skills for veno you dont have to use alot in parties, such as myriad. We clerics use BB alot in parties. Most of our cleric skills require alot of mana.b:bye

do u know what myriad even do?u just said we dont need to debuff boss..lol
fact is that veno lose 20% of mp every time when switch form,and u wont see much venos pulling mobs/bosses in human form,and probably gonna switch forms mean while again to amp boss and use myriad which costs 800mp and theres no way natures grace gonna cover up all with 50% mp and cooldown of 3min.
yes clerics require alot of mana,no1 said u dont,but u dont NEED charm for that.
i can burn mp charm on my veno fast too,everyone can since it ticks on 75% -.-
u need charm for bb only if u wanna go afk,instead of keep tracking ur mp bar and use pots on time.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

maybe he doesnt know but i have a cleric and i use BB. you instead have no idea how much mp i burn with veno and how many mp pots im using when im in a team. seems like you never touch veno form or using expensive mp skills like fox transform or myriad.
by the time you kill mobs only with pet, a cleric is killing 4-5 more mobs
the gap is even bigger at higher lvl, pet is mostly a tank (low damage/high defence) also veno skills arent that good in terms of damage (if you count pet+veno damage)

Good you have cleric but you don' know how to play it right as well or you would on the side of clerics

from description you play like a lvl 3 veno. send pet, let him kill the mob and you just heal behind. ok thats not even close to the definition of "playing a veno very well"
herc doesnt do any big damage, it is a tank not even close to a real DD, yet you like to compare him with magmite or glacial.
btw, those pets have higher atk at the same lvl with herc but less atk speed.
that atk speed difference only matter for damage in the long run (like mobs) not when you kill mobs

pretty much clueless about both classes

I don't play like lvl 3 veno what I saying is that this how easy it is to play a veno after playing my cleric for few hrs I don't want to button smash..It gives me a break from doing so,Hercs have the highest dps of all escept mybe the Nix.I am not clueless on both classes especially cleric and btw my veno in in mostly veno faction.

kenlee

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good you have cleric but you don' know how to play it right as well or you would on the side of clerics

everything you posted tells me that you are the one playing bad. learn about efficiency in a squad and mp management before talking about clerics. im not taking sides, i just see solid arguments here

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't play like lvl 3 veno what I saying is that this how easy it is to play a veno after playing my cleric for few hrs I don't want to button smash..It gives me a break from doing so,Hercs have the highest dps of all escept mybe the Nix.I am not clueless on both classes especially cleric and btw my veno in in mostly veno faction.

mhh yea hitting plume shot and cyclone all day to kill mobs is hard really; pressing that ironheart heal macro or just go afk doing BB must be keyboard smashing.
a golem has more initial damage from bash, before counting the other hits that are still high damage mob is already dead. some venos use more than one atk skill on pet, that makes dps better. uh did i mentioned a scorpion?

Brael - Dreamweaver

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not wrong I am going on the fact that the Devs of this game made each fair and balanced.I would tend to think that all skills cost the same.

Yet, that data came from ecatomb which has correct coin/spirit skill costs for the original 6 classes. You can add them up for yourself, that's what I did. Remember to include 1050000 coin per 79 skill too.

You have no idea of the cost of running BB as my mana can be gone in 2 sec burning a whole gold charm in a few hrs or using lots of pots.

BB is 500 mana every 5 seconds. There are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 seconds/5 second ticks*500 mana per tick gets you 6000 mana per minute. I know exactly what BB costs. A gold charm has 900,000 mana on it, including natural regen and your mana regen buff (not concentration orbs) after taking the 25% in combat regen into account you're looking at a gold charm lasting 1855 ticks, which is 9275 seconds, or 2 hours, 34 minutes, 35 seconds. Plus or minus about 2 minutes depending on your mana regen.

you don't use up tha much mana and don't tell me other wise because you don't need to use your scarabs as you pet does all the damage for you.There isn't another class that can use pets which can do all your dmge.I never use my scarabs when attacking mobs just heal pet,nature grace and soul transfusion maybe 1 cast of ironwood which at lvl 5 never needs to be leveled again and that includes my Venomous scarab at lvl 5 and I can take out lvl 65 possibly up to 70 mobs out.

You're just trolling now aren't you? Pets aren't a big contributor to our damage. My nix is about 45% of my damage, my herc is about 25% of my damage. Simply standing back and letting the pet heal is inefficient when solo, and in a squad it's negligence. Any veno that isn't nuking deserves to be booted from the party right away. I can't believe you're seriously suggesting we don't nuke, our nukes do more damage than our pets on any non ? fight. You would have more of an argument saying we should just have our pet standing there while we nuke, that would be more damage.

After this reply I'm done discussing this with you, you don't want to have a real discussion at all, you just want to troll and say veno's are overpowered while pretending the entire world is against you on your cleric, and that life is hard.

I have way better idea of playing a cleric than you do as you don't play one who would know the cost more those who play them or those who think and try to use the math.it is not a matter of adding up the numbers it is case of playing the class.I know how to play Veno really well and I do have a herc but that is not included.I would I have better idea of how to play one with herc you don't all skills maxed ever as herc does big dmge.My lvl 51 herc can out dmge a lvl 80 Glacial Walker and C-Mag.

And yet, which of us knows how much BB costs per minute? Which of us knows what Wellspring costs per minute? It's precisely a matter of the math and numbers because you're comparing who's using the most mana per minute. You find that out through addition and multiplication.

And, if you think a level 51 herc can outdamage a level 80 walker or magmite you're sadly mistaken. Using my pet stat spreadsheet, a herc has 888.67 dps at 51, +/- 2%, a magmite at 80 has 2206.89 dps +/- 2%. A crystaline magmite equals a 51 hercs dps at level 47. Comparing them both with starting skills. If you change the hercs pounce to bash the dps goes up to 968, which a crystaline magmite has at level 50.

Yet more numbers that are a result of using third grade level addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division for you to ignore.

You just using excuses as Veno cost more but it doesn't only because that is the only thing you are playing and did you read where I said that Veno's are the $$$(richest) class of the game.

All I've used is mathematical proof. I've worked out every number publicly. If you wished to discredit the argument, show where the numbers are wrong. Your responses on the other hand have been anecdotal at best and flat out wrong at worst (not needing to level ironwood past 5, you can't be serious).

As for veno's being the richest, despite all classes having the same earnings potential, one class is going to be the richest and one will be the poorest. I don't know where veno's place in that list and can't think of a way to prove it. The only thing that can be done there is to look at earnings potential by class and the big money maker for everyone is catshops.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

You are certainly stupid. Those skills for veno you dont have to use alot in parties, such as myriad. We clerics use BB alot in parties. Most of our cleric skills require alot of mana.b:bye

The job of DD's is to kill the mob as quickly as possible, that means using our skills. The job of a cleric is to keep the squad alive while dealing as much damage as you can safely squeeze in, that means using your skills. Mana costs were calculated at their maximum rate, your skills aren't anymore expensive over time than a veno's, and infact... if not pushing you to needing chain wellsprings, are even cheaper.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

everything you posted tells me that you are the one playing bad. learn about efficiency in a squad and mp management before talking about clerics. im not taking sides, i just see solid arguments here

I am not the one playing bad I play another rpg which is more competive and harder than this one and have regular skill balances.

Brael you still don't understand Clerics as this has been dicussed to death even in the cleric forum and it cam that Clerics are expensive and spoons said don't ever go by other websites say ecatombs might be wrong.

Brael - Dreamweaver

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not the one playing bad I play another rpg which is more competive and harder than this one and have regular skill balances.

Playing another game well (or not, it doesn't really matter) doesn't mean you understand the game mechanics of this one (note, I didn't say skill). It's like saying a professional weight lifter innately understands the physics at work in water skiing because they're both sports or that because you know how to play checkers you automatically understand all of the strategy involved in chess.

Brael you still don't understand Clerics as this has been dicussed to death even in the cleric forum and it cam that Clerics are expensive and spoons said don't ever go by other websites say ecatombs might be wrong.

It may have been discussed but the discussion of it linked here so far was using incorrect facts, that doesn't mean it was a proper discussion. It could have simply been the same type of discussion as the "OMFG VENOS ARE OVERPOWERED" so called discussions.

As far as what spoons said, he's right in that fan run databases are never 100%. However, they're right for the vast majority, and in this case they're right. If you wish to dispute that, prove it. I've checked veno values first hand. Look at cleric skills, find a value which ecatomb lists that's wrong and I'll update the figures.

I already know you won't do that though, because not only does ecatomb have the correct cleric values listed, but you don't want to challenge it because you don't want to be wrong. That's why you stick to arguments either made by others (and shot down a hundred times) or anecdotes about how hard life is as a cleric.

Guess I fail at not discussing it with you.

tweakz

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Once again you fail to argue. That buff becomes useless as you get to the higher lvls because concentration orb 100mp per sec replaces that buff. b:bye

Maybe you particularly need concentration orbs instead because you are fail build? Do they not work simultaneously?

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Brael in squad i thinked the veno primary job is the lureing, or u let the archer when somebody must lure? If i need dd then i can choose another x class for that.
Veno job the lure, debuff and only after that the dding, not like cleric with squad heal.

Brael - Dreamweaver

If you're bringing a bunch a more durable class is better. If you're not able to handle a couple you shouldn't be there in the first place. Besides luring takes very little time. A genie hit here and there, a tame pet occasionally. I know it's a fair point that we're lures, but in practice I've just never seen it as being all that valuable in most situations because it's usually faster/more practical to just kill a few at once or train through. So I would hardly call luring our primary job between how uncommon it is for it to actually be useful (granted, it's nice in a few spots in lunar, among others) and genies, which allow anyone to lure so long as you don't need more than one every 50 seconds or so.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Playing another game well (or not, it doesn't really matter) doesn't mean you understand the game mechanics of this one (note, I didn't say skill). It's like saying a professional weight lifter innately understands the physics at work in water skiing because they're both sports or that because you know how to play checkers you automatically understand all of the strategy involved in chess.

Sure it does I as I play a healer class as well and similar to a Veno as a Necromancer raising bone minions as my little pets.

I already know you won't do that though, because not only does ecatomb have the correct cleric values listed, but you don't want to challenge it because you don't want to be wrong. That's why you stick to arguments either made by others (and shot down a hundred times) or anecdotes about how hard life is as a cleric.

Guess I fail at not discussing it with you.

I am going to be doing this very slowly in the Cleric form only for their skills at only lvl 10 no sage or demon.The only argument I am making is not all skills needs to be maxed I will never use frost scarab so it is waste of spirit and coin and that goes for some others as well and I rarely use foxform as I am an AA Veno hybrid.It is best to be HA or LA.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I will never use frost scarab so it is waste of spirit and coin and that goes for some others as well and I rarely use foxform as I am an AA Veno hybrid.It is best to be HA or LA.

Sure, frost is rubbish. So are a bunch of the fox skills, if you don't fox very often.

But if you don't go fox once every 60s to cast amplify damage then barbarians will hunt you down and eat you.

You may not need to max everything - I don't think any class does. But you need more than you think.

Brael - Dreamweaver

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sure it does I as I play a healer class as well and similar to a Veno as a Necromancer raising bone minions as my little pets.

Different games have different game mechanics, even when the classes are similar. I played another MMO for 11 years, was considered the top across servers in two classes (a tank that had a pet, and a cleric) in both gear and skill, understood the game well enough to have been flown out to the company to speak with them for a couple days about it on three different occasions, was on their internal email lists for development, ran the games message boards (for one class, each class had their own fan fun board), and helped to design major expansion features in all but one of the games expansions. None of that gives me more insight into this game. Google this (without the quotes) "brael everquest sk shadowknight"

There's my proof. If I need more proof let me know. But as I already said, experience playing other games has nothing to do with PW.

I am going to be doing this very slowly in the Cleric form only for their skills at only lvl 10 no sage or demon.The only argument I am making is not all skills needs to be maxed I will never use frost scarab so it is waste of spirit and coin and that goes for some others as well and I rarely use foxform as I am an AA Veno hybrid.It is best to be HA or LA.

Clerics don't need to max everything either, and like I said earlier... the only skill I don't get any use out of is crush vigor, I even find frost scarab useful. Picking and choosing based on what you think venos need isn't really fair because you have an interest in minimizing venos while maximizing clerics. Conflict of interest there. That's why the max for each class is compared, both have useless skills so it evens out.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you're bringing a bunch a more durable class is better. If you're not able to handle a couple you shouldn't be there in the first place. Besides luring takes very little time. A genie hit here and there, a tame pet occasionally. I know it's a fair point that we're lures, but in practice I've just never seen it as being all that valuable in most situations because it's usually faster/more practical to just kill a few at once or train through. So I would hardly call luring our primary job between how uncommon it is for it to actually be useful (granted, it's nice in a few spots in lunar, among others) and genies, which allow anyone to lure so long as you don't need more than one every 50 seconds or so.

genie dont work for lureing since 2nd patch if i know (in another 2 server already dont know and since pwi get faster patch i bet same here)

and let try tt without lurer XD

Brael - Dreamweaver

TT without a lurer is easy, in 1-X everything is spaced to no more than 2 at once already, and usually 1 at a time. In 2-X people just run through, in 3-X because of kill counts the idea is to pull as much as you can at once not bring stuff one at a time.

Earthflame still works for genies.

/NiKi - Lost City

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am correct in what I said as Ice doesn't play Cleric and to your last sentence yes they are the same.What do you mean I am not playing my Cleric not as me don't make me laugh of coarse I am as it is against the ToS to give out you account information and can be banned.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not failing here as none of you play Cleric if so you would know better.This has even been said by other Clerics.

1st of all u misunderstood,i said ur not playing ur not playing ur cleric as ur supposed to OR u wouldnt burn gold charm in hh,if u like to go afk while bb and waste a charm,instead of using pots,thats ur problem,dont go afk,use pots and u wont burn all charm b:bye
if u want lvl all skills,waste ur money thats ur choice,but u dont need all of skills to be a good cleric and wanted in parties,since u only need few skills for that.
i didnt said anywhere in my pots that u share ur account information -.-
and dont be so sure about whos playing cleric here or not,alot of people play this game for long time,and have alot of alts,and they probably wouldnt discuss here if they dont have any clues about clerics.

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

Brael in squad i thinked the veno primary job is the lureing, or u let the archer when somebody must lure? If i need dd then i can choose another x class for that.
Veno job the lure, debuff and only after that the dding, not like cleric with squad heal.

yeah u think right,but ur contradicting ur self.
1st u said we dont need to lvl all skills in both forms and most of our skills are debuffs -.-
then u said we dont need alot of mp,every time we lure we change form,20% mp waste,for every amp on boss u will switch form again which is 20% mp more,and some of skills like myriad use alot of mp.so how are u planning to cover all that mp with 1 skill of 50% mp with cooldown of 3min?

another thing,if we talk about grinding..if u wont dd with ur veno and let pet do all the work,sure ull save some mp,but how long will it take to kill 1 mob?
we all know venos got much lower dmg compared to other magic classes because of pets,even if we dd cleric will kill more in same amount of time,so while ur saving mp on veno and watch while ur pet is killing mobs,cleric is gonna kill even much more mobs then if veno dd too and get more of loot.so what,u save 50k in pots on veno and gain 150k in loot on cleric,how u make more money on veno then?

@ Mysti
i got 2 pc's,and i am taking both of my characters to hh,my veno and my cleric.for example,at forshura boss,bb is up all the time,i spend max 15 event mp pots,since u have to kill boss 4 times.thats not even 25k,so if some of clerics here burn one gold charm during hh,they must be doing something wrong.
actually i spend more pots on my veno,because i pull boss with lower lvl pets,
or kowlin which got low hp,since pet food for herc is expensive and dont wanna kill it for nothing.every revive pet costs 25% of mana on max lvl,even more if u dont have maxed skills like some people said here,we dont need to lvl our skills..if u dont lvl them,ull end up spending even more mana then if they are max lvl.

i see that some of clerics got offended here,but check out title of this topic again.
no1 mention clerics in there,and no1 said its cheap to play cleric,
every class costs.and they are mostly balanced or we all would be playing same class.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

TT without a lurer is easy, in 1-X everything is spaced to no more than 2 at once already, and usually 1 at a time. In 2-X people just run through, in 3-X because of kill counts the idea is to pull as much as you can at once not bring stuff one at a time.

Earthflame still works for genies.

in 2-x most of ppl kill the mobs same in 1-3 for sky chapter (idk the name here but chapter for 79 skill) because drop rate enough good, in 2-x we cant rambo the mobs, can rush its true but in that lv ppl's enough times kill the mobs.
3-x only in begining have kill count and that easy(note: only 3-1 what i simple aor grind on mobs not 3-3 and 3-3) but at charie a bit hard the with mobs what can hit 2-3k hp on archer.

(about genie if it work here then its wonder and i think nice everybody use it before will eb fixed b:chuckle)

yeah u think right,but ur contradicting ur self.
1st u said we dont need to lvl all skills in both forms and most of our skills are debuffs -.-
then u said we dont need alot of mp,every time we lure we change form,20% mp waste,for every amp on boss u will switch form again which is 20% mp more,and some of skills like myriad use alot of mp.so how are u planning to cover all that mp with 1 skill of 50% mp with cooldown of 3min?

another thing,if we talk about grinding..if u wont dd with ur veno and let pet do all the work,sure ull save some mp,but how long will it take to kill 1 mob?
we all know venos got much lower dmg compared to other magic classes because of pets,even if we dd cleric will kill more in same amount of time,so while ur saving mp on veno and watch while ur pet is killing mobs,cleric is gonna kill even much more mobs then if veno dd too and get more of loot.so what,u save 50k in pots on veno and gain 150k in loot on cleric,how u make more money on veno then?

i see that some of clerics got offended here,but check out title of this topic again.
no1 mention clerics in there,and no1 said its cheap to play cleric,
every class costs.and they are mostly balanced or we all would be playing same class.

1.bolded: most of ur skill? u talk about 1 amplify skill what is fox form? and maybe u can see difference (i talked u need only human form few skill for grind, and tt, yes with tt u need few another but not too much if u want still do something, u dont must be same dd than a archer, idk who asked that but he better ask archer than for tt)
2.italic. i can ask why the hell? maybe barb is blind or why u need foxform for lure? a normal barb can get the most boss before he hurt u...
3. underline:
oh come on if i spam with wizz every 12 sec the lv79 skill than its simliar stupid senseless mana wasteing if not timed boss (its simple mana waste what u want and i doubt everybody ask it from u, its raise the chance of the agroo steal,same like heavenly dragon in bh with archer with like the crit maniacs high dd's).

lets talk about that events too where dont work the amplify and u dont must go to foxform until another class everywhere use same amount of mana or repair and if u dont must go to fox then with big smiley u can do the dding without a single pot

if i am not wrong u lose x% max mp and not allways %mp from ur current mana :P u can keep at 3/4 then u dont lose with changeing only the transform cost.
4.bold+italic
y? still in 1vs1 mob i still faster with spaming with the maxed starter skill than cleric.
cleric not offended just was a comment about cleric is the cheapest what bs, maybe not too expensive but its sure not the cheapest.

cleric is gonna kill even much more mobs then if veno dd too and get more of loot.so what,u save 50k in pots on veno and gain 150k in loot on cleric,how u make more money on veno then?

sorry but i got here negative experience with posion mobs, aoe grind != facking ton of the drop like alot ppl think :P not that nice just fast from exp view.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Maybe you particularly need concentration orbs instead because you are fail build? Do they not work simultaneously?

Wow you're telling me that i have a fail build? Tell that to all the clerics. I double dare you.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Different games have different game mechanics, even when the classes are similar. I played another MMO for 11 years, was considered the top across servers in two classes (a tank that had a pet, and a cleric) in both gear and skill, understood the game well enough to have been flown out to the company to speak with them for a couple days about it on three different occasions, was on their internal email lists for development, ran the games message boards (for one class, each class had their own fan fun board), and helped to design major expansion features in all but one of the games expansions. None of that gives me more insight into this game. Google this (without the quotes) "brael everquest sk shadowknight"

It is practically similar especially the healing the mechanics might be different but it all the same.I don't there were no mmo out in 11 years as the pc technology wasn't around back then even audio cd were just pretty new the audio world.

There's my proof. If I need more proof let me know. But as I already said, experience playing other games has nothing to do with PW.

That isn't much proof.

Clerics don't need to max everything either, and like I said earlier... the only skill I don't get any use out of is crush vigor, I even find frost scarab useful. Picking and choosing based on what you think venos need isn't really fair because you have an interest in minimizing venos while maximizing clerics. Conflict of interest there. That's why the max for each class is compared, both have useless skills so it evens out.

No we don't and we don't max out all are skills as some are just useless and depending on what your play style is.

Originally posted by /Niki
1st of all u misunderstood,i said ur not playing ur not playing ur cleric as ur supposed to OR u wouldnt burn gold charm in hh,if u like to go afk while bb and waste a charm,instead of using pots,thats ur problem,dont go afk,use pots and u wont burn all charm

I am playing my cleric like I am suppose to and what do you know about playing a cleric Nothing.you can't sit here and debate this as if you think you know how to play clerics and what is expected of us

if u want lvl all skills,waste ur money thats ur choice,but u dont need all of skills to be a good cleric and wanted in parties,since u only need few skills for that.
i didnt said anywhere in my pots that u share ur account information -.-
and dont be so sure about whos playing cleric here or not,alot of people play this game for long time,and have alot of alts,and they probably wouldnt discuss here if they dont have any clues about clerics.

I just said that in my previous post as we don't max out all our skills.You have to be so immature as to add smilies.

/NiKi - Lost City

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

1.bolded: most of ur skill? u talk about 1 amplify skill what is fox form? and maybe u can see difference (i talked u need only human form few skill for grind, and tt, yes with tt u need few another but not too much if u want still do something, u dont must be same dd than a archer, idk who asked that but he better ask archer than for tt)

and u need all ur skill tree for grind?
since i already switch to fox form,i use most of it since mp is already wasted.
we already said if u have myriad rainbow,u will use it on boss since its debuff,thats what we are doing in parties.
amp,purge,myriad,leech,stunning blow depends on the boss/mob or w/e,theres more skills which we use from fox form.
''few another'' we already make it clear cleric also dont need to use all skills,u can also max only few skills,not all.i dont have all maxed on my cleric,and not planning to cuz i dont even use them.
as u saying,we can grind with heal pet only and venomous,same way u can grind only with plume shot and iron,or great cyclone.
did i mention we are supposed to be better then archers in any of my posts?
our dmg cant even compare to theirs dmg.

2.italic. i can ask why the hell? maybe barb is blind or why u need foxform for lure? a normal barb can get the most boss before he hurt u...

can i ask what lvl is ur veno?seriously..go pull bosses in fb69 without fox form and bramble hood,or some hh bosses which would 1 shot u,u know not all bosses are melee,theres aoe and range and barb wont get aggro every time b4 it hits veno atleast once.so we are supposed to die and lose 0.1% which is really hard to get on higher lvl,cuz we want to save 20% of mp?no thanks.

3. underline:
oh come on if i spam with wizz every 12 sec the lv79 skill than its simliar stupid senseless mana wasteing if not timed boss (its simple mana waste what u want and i doubt everybody ask it from u, its raise the chance of the agroo steal,same like heavenly dragon in bh with archer with like the crit maniacs high dd's).

how much i know of,1 of clerics 79 skill got cooldown of 5min and other have cooldown of 3min so u cant spam it every 12sec.and when boss have 5mil hp,yes u will keep using amp,and every other debuffs u got.

if i am not wrong u lose x% max mp and not allways %mp from ur current mana :P u can keep at 3/4 then u dont lose with changeing only the transform cost.

yeah if u dont fill in ur mp mean while,which probably is what u had in mind since ur claiming we dont need mp as much,or u gonna lose 20% with transform.

4.bold+italic
y? still in 1vs1 mob i still faster with spaming with the maxed starter skill than cleric.
cleric not offended just was a comment about cleric is the cheapest what bs, maybe not too expensive but its sure not the cheapest.

only if u dont have maxed skill on cleric too,cuz clerics making more dmg then venos,and tanking pets have low dmg too,so yeah cleric would kill it faster,if skill is maxed too.
i never said cleric is cheapest class,i dont think there is cheap class in pwi,but i also dont agree with u that veno dont need gear/skills etc.
if ur making veno as ur main character,its gonna cost u as much as any other cuz u would invest in gear,pets etc. to make it better.




@ Mysty: yes i can debate,because 1st char i made was cleric,and i stop playing it around 50,then make veno.after i make another cleric.just cuz i am posting from veno doesnt mean i dont know anything about that class,or never played it and do i still play it or not.
i dont ''think'' that i know how to play cleric,i know that i do..u like it or not,u dont need to burn all charm in 1 run of hh,if u choose to do so,thats waste of ur money,not mine,but dont keep saying that u NEED to do it or that we dont know cost of running BB just because u choose to go afk while bb is up.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is expected that Clerics have all their sKills maxed or most by 60 or do you want a FAC to keep you alive.

thats what i said too,not ALL.
actually i maxed more skills on my veno then on cleric,because i am using it as support cleric only.
and i am immature because i add smilies?seriously,u quoted my previous post to say that?
talking about immaturity..
why u let ur self end up in discussion with immature people?lol
now everyone who use them are immature?smilies are here for a reason,so u express better what u are saying.

kenlee

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

It is practically similar especially the healing the mechanics might be different but it all the same.I don't there were no mmo out in 11 years as the pc technology wasn't around back then even audio cd were just pretty new the audio world.

are you like 10? ive played online games since 13 years ago.
and yea hello EQ and L1, did you played any of them?

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am playing my cleric like I am suppose to and what do you know about playing a cleric Nothing.you can't sit here and debate this as if you think you know how to play clerics and what is expected of us

I am playing my veno like I am suppose to and what do you know about playing a veno Nothing.you can't sit here and debate this as if you think you know how to play venos and what is expected of us

oh and ffs nature and metabolic is 5min resue, not everyone is a demon

Vylauri - Heavens Tear

MystiMonk -


So far throughout the post all I have seen you say, or really accuse, is that the people trying to discuss this with you don't know anything about the cost of Cleric skills and that they no nothing about a Cleric.

First: since this game has been out for a long time it is safe to say that anyone can have an alt so don't assume anything, its rude and it makes you look ridiculous.

Second: If you have problems with your mana start learning to be more efficient with your mana. For example. The Gold Charm is sometimes not the best thing to use since it will tick when you hit or go below 75% of your mana. Usually it is better to use the Apothicary Pots, or even Herb Yuanxiao *love them btw lawls*, which heals 5000 mana in 10 sec I believe (correct me if I am wrong). Which is way more efficient mana and cost wise since they can last for a lot longer.

Third: If you're not even going to read the mathematical proof that is right in front of you, then you can not discount it. Again here you are assuming its wrong without even checking it, which is silly to say the least.

It is true that Cleric's use a ton of Mana but that doesn't mean that the other classes don't, you can not discredit another classes mana useage and tell them "well you don't neeeed that skill". Cleric's don't NEED level 10 res it's just a nice thing to have. Cleric's don't NEED BB, it just makes things easier.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

are you like 10? ive played online games since 13 years ago.
and yea hello EQ and L1, did you played any of them?

No I am not 10 and I am older than you are if you can recall the days of black and white TV sets and Appollo 11 first landing on the moon.I remember when Nixon resinged from office as from all the watergate hearings.They didn't even have good video card to play those games back then as well it was only windows 98.

Orinally posted by Vylauri
First: since this game has been out for a long time it is safe to say that anyone can have an alt so don't assume anything, its rude and it makes you look ridiculous.

This game has been out that long a year isn't that long and it doesn't seem like they have alts if they did thet would know the true cost of clerics.

Second: If you have problems with your mana start learning to be more efficient with your mana. For example. The Gold Charm is sometimes not the best thing to use since it will tick when you hit or go below 75% of your mana. Usually it is better to use the Apothicary Pots, or even Herb Yuanxiao *love them btw lawls*, which heals 5000 mana in 10 sec I believe (correct me if I am wrong). Which is way more efficient mana and cost wise since they can last for a lot longer

I don't use charms as I know how to manage my mana just fine using pots and since I play a healer in another I have to mamage my mana as we don't have charms,powders and pots.

Third: If you're not even going to read the mathematical proof that is right in front of you, then you can not discount it. Again here you are assuming its wrong without even checking it, which is silly to say the least.

I did but I would say it is not as accurate as I was looking through few skills at lvl 10 and saw some cleric skills cost more.

It is true that Cleric's use a ton of Mana but that doesn't mean that the other classes don't, you can not discredit another classes mana useage and tell them "well you don't neeeed that skill". Cleric's don't NEED level 10 res it's just a nice thing to have. Cleric's don't NEED BB, it just makes things easier

I am not discreding other classes I would say Wizard go through a lot of man as well.Clerics do need BB if you want to do RB and TT and squads will expect you to have it.It is funny as you never posted in the Cleric form or are you just a Veno taking sides.

tweakz

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

No I am not 10 and I am older than you are if you can recall the days of black and white TV sets and Appollo 11 first landing on the moon.I remember when Nixon resinged from office as from all the watergate hearings.They didn't even have good video card to play those games back then as well it was only windows 98.

Color sets were out way before win98 or even personal computers. -Fail

This game has been out that long a year isn't that long and it doesn't seem like they have alts if they did thet would know the true cost of clerics.

Sorry if they're not fail builds / players like you. You fail to address that clerics get more mp per mag, and they have mag recov buff. You're playing something other than pure mag so you can expect it to be more expensive.

I am not discreding other classes I would say Wizard go through a lot of man as well.

My alt is an 86 wiz. Only time I need pots is when it dies and has to start from nothing. There is Wellspring Quaf and Glacial Embrace which help to provide sufficient MP for a proper build.

Clerics do need BB if you want to do RB and TT and squads will expect you to have it.

Everyone that RB's has incredible expenses, but also incredible returns.

It is funny as you never posted in the Cleric form or are you just a Veno taking sides.

You know their alts?

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

Sorry if they're not fail builds / players like you. You fail to address that clerics get more mp per mag, and they have mag recov buff. You're playing something other than pure mag so you can expect it to be more expensive.



Dude seriously 10mp per sec isnt much to us clerics in higher levels. How many times do i have to say this. At higher lvls when most of the spells are maxed, the number of mana used will overcome the mp regeneration buff. Pretty much the buff becomes less useful. Play high lvl cleric and you tell me your experience. The build of the cleric dont matter anyways with the regen buff.

Lolite - Heavens Tear

Oh Wow! I really hate to post in any forum drama threads but seriously, I could not resist any more...

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

This game has been out that long a year isn't that long and it doesn't seem like they have alts if they did thet would know the true cost of clerics.

So you know their alts? How could you simply assume they have no alts? Don't get offended but even some of their alts are higher lvl than youb:surrender

My alt cleric is lvl79 and for god's sake, she's a vit build. Do you know what vid build means? Slowest mag reg out of all cleric builds. I never had any problems with her cost And I never moved a coin from this veno to her.

Now it makes me wonder... what kind of fail build you have here to talk about true cost of clerics b:surrender

I don't use charms as I know how to manage my mana just fine using pots and since I play a healer in another I have to mamage my mana as we don't have charms,powders and pots.

Looool Since you know how to manage your mana just fine using pots why are you complaining?

I did but I would say it is not as accurate as I was looking through few skills at lvl 10 and saw some cleric skills cost more.

So you did eh? And found some inaccuracies? They showed their proofs with math, so where is yours?

I am not discreding other classes I would say Wizard go through a lot of man as well.Clerics do need BB if you want to do RB and TT and squads will expect you to have it.It is funny as you never posted in the Cleric form or are you just a Veno taking sides.

Just get out of here... You are just a bitter 10-year-old accusing other clerics for speaking the truth.

tweakz

Dude seriously 10mp per sec isnt much to us clerics in higher levels. How many times do i have to say this. At higher lvls when most of the spells are maxed, the number of mana used will overcome the mp regeneration buff.

But you also start out with more MP to begin with as well as faster MP recov. You're just being a pan handler trying to find reasons to be worthy of charity based off the naivety of others.

Pretty much the buff becomes less useful.

What happened to "replaced"?

Play high lvl cleric and you tell me your experience. The build of the cleric dont matter anyways with the regen buff.

Playing Wizard wasn't good enough? b:chuckle

Either you are fail that refuses advice, or you are troll. Either way you are worthless to us.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

But you also start out with more MP to begin with as well as faster MP recov. You're just being a pan handler trying to find reasons to be worthy of charity.



What happened to "replaced"?

Replaced by apoth pots.

Playing Wizard wasn't good enough? b:chuckle
Yes..i have a lvl 71 wizard and he doesnt have mana problems cuz of the wellspring mana buff
Either you are fail that refuses advice, or you are troll. Either way you are worthless to us.

Worthless to us? Dont expect a rez from me. When your in my shoes grinding mobs then we will talk.

tweakz

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Worthless to us? Dont expect a rez from me. When your in my shoes grinding mobs then we will talk.

I don't wait around for a cleric to rez. If you're not there: I town it. Don't over value yourself. 10 minutes in FC or 20m waiting for rez. hmmn..

Lolite - Heavens Tear

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Worthless to us? Dont expect a rez from me. When your in my shoes grinding mobs then we will talk.

-cough cough- You two are in different servers... Unless you wanna switch over or have another high lvl cleric

Vylauri - Heavens Tear

It is funny as you never posted in the Cleric forum or are you just a Veno taking sides.

If I was a Veno why would my avatar show me as a level 79 Cleric b:question

Why do I need to post in Cleric Forum? And for factual purposes I have in fact posted in the Cleric Forum.

And saying that I'm "taking sides" is such a childish term. I prefer to say that I agree with the more logical and correct reasoning since you have yet to disprove anything with valid proof.

I am not going to bother going through all the math as I would tend to think all classes are made the same.

You say you have looked through it yet here is a quote from a previous post saying your not going to bother with it.