Are veno's really the cheapest class?

LolaSaint - Sanctuary

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I would say a Cleric is the No#1 when it comes to leveling up skills or do you want a lvl 1 revive as we don't need it.Who keeps squads alive a Veno or a Cleric think about it Brael.We end up with most of the blame if the squad fails and the most ex loss if we die from bad squads.Don't forget how much pots or charms cost us as well as maxing out our apothecary skills.Then there is the mats if don't get them ourselves.Venos don't need this.

Venos don't need their skills maxed and not every one of them and I do play one.

I made thread about to Clerics aren't cheapLook at post 10.He is right.

^^This +1 on that....Everyone else read the thread above

Asperitas - Lost City

Thus far, it's been argued that veno's are the cheapest in comparison to clerics because:

- their pets deal their damage for them = no costs
- they don't need to level all their skills
- they can grind on mobs 20 levels above them
- herc = eZ money
- less mp usage
- things I missed

The above can only be true if you're a bad veno.

If I'm understanding what Brael and a lot of other venomancers are saying, yes, those things can be done. You can solo TT, you can grind on mobs 20 levels above you, you can let your pet deal all your damage for you while you go and spam heal pet.

But all this makes for an inefficient venomancer. Inefficiency then leads to higher opportunity costs, which means higher economic costs. The 20 minutes it took you to kill a mob 20 levels above you could have easily been traded for 20 minutes of killing mobs your level.

The 3 hours it took your squad to do TT because all the other members were doing nothing but wacking at the boss with attack and elementary skills could have easily been 1 hour of killing and 2 hours of farming/merchanting.

These are just figures I pulled out of my ****, look at others' posts for correct mathematical figures.

For the same reason why I don't want a cleric with lv 3 ironheart healing me, I also don't want DDs in my squad wacking the boss with their weapons or using their most elementary skills. To be a good cleric, you need to level your skills. To be a good veno, you need to level your skills.

Of course you can compare a non-fail cleric to a fail veno and come to the conclusion that clerics are more expensive. The vice-versa is also true.

You can't compare apples and oranges and come out with a credible answer.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

-Venos have low repair costs because their pets take MOST of the damage.
-LOW mp usage
-Venos have a CHOICE if they want a legendary pet or not so that factor is out
-In RB runs the barb takes aggro so that means super high repair costs and venos pick up chests and then kick back and let their pet kill mobs. The clerics mp charm would tick so much because of BB to keep the squad ALIVE. Archers and Wizards aoe and their mp charms tick as well.
-MP Food usage for clerics costs more than the pet food (meat especially) for veno pets in a week.

How do you explain the insane amount of mp usage on cleric: ironheart 230mp plus chromatic heal 900mp for aoe bosses b:sad VS. Venomous Scarab 69 mana and ironwood scarab 107mp for venos? To us clerics it's a laugh!

Despite the heavy mana usage, i can overcome it with apothecary pots and mp food. Thanks to the anniversary packs mp food is cheaper thus BB is less expensive.

Brael - Dreamweaver

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

No I am not 10 and I am older than you are if you can recall the days of black and white TV sets and Appollo 11 first landing on the moon.I remember when Nixon resinged from office as from all the watergate hearings.They didn't even have good video card to play those games back then as well it was only windows 98.

EQ was the first 3d MMOG and launched on March 16, 1999. Various beta versions were out prior to that and the earliest betas began in 1997. Prior to that there were other games. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_massively_multiplayer_online_games#Commercial_MMORPGs_on_the_Internet read up. The first game that could be classified as an MMO was in 1973 with the first rpg being 1975.

[I don't use charms as I know how to manage my mana just fine using pots ad since I play a healer in another I have to mamage my mana as we don't have charms,powders and pots.

So you're saying your earlier anecdotal charm argument is completely invalid because you don't use charms?

I did but I would say it is not as accurate as I was looking through few skills at lvl 10 and saw some cleric skills cost more.

Which? Screenshots of the cost ingame if possible would help too (or you saying what the correct cost is, and I can confirm it elsewhere).

LolaSaint - Sanctuary wrote: »

^^This +1 on that....Everyone else read the thread above

I have read it, many of the points about venos are inaccurate.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

stuff

Yay, someone gets it.

Brael - Dreamweaver

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

-LOW mp usage

Disproven, that you choose to ignore the figures earlier in this thread is your problem. Ignoring facts is one way to still be able to argue though.

-Venos have a CHOICE if they want a legendary pet or not so that factor is out

Veno's are expected to have legendary pets really, that said... they're a very small expense in the grand scheme of things. I hardly think they're worth counting against venos being an expensive class.

-MP Food usage for clerics costs more than the pet food (meat especially) for veno pets in a week.

Pet food is also cheap. Cookies are wonderful.

How do you explain the insane amount of mp usage on cleric: ironheart 230mp plus chromatic heal 900mp for aoe bosses b:sad VS. Venomous Scarab 69 mana and ironwood scarab 107mp for venos? To us clerics it's a laugh!

At 24% channeling chain ironheart is 130.4 mana/sec, BB (doesn't change with channeling) is 100 mana/sec. The value I came up with for venos was something like 122 mana/sec. That's not exactly low. I didn't compare chromatic heal though as it's not something you would chain, but it could raise the mana usage for a cleric up a little.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

How do you explain the insane amount of mp usage on cleric: ironheart 230mp plus chromatic heal 900mp for aoe bosses b:sad VS. Venomous Scarab 69 mana and ironwood scarab 107mp for venos? To us clerics it's a laugh!

Brael already touched on this, but I wanted to expand on it. Ironheart has a 4 sec opportunity cost (3 sec channel, 1 sec cast), so the nominal mp consumption rate on it will be 230/4 = 57.5 mp/sec.

Venomous happens to be just about the worst spell a veno can use - I only use it when all my other spells are on cooldown, which isn't often. But to entertain you, it has a 1.5 sec channel and 1 sec cast time. That gives a nominal mp consumption rate of 69/2.5 = 27.6 mp/sec. Lower than Ironheart, yes, but like I said, this is about the worst DD spell a veno has. Compared to Ironheart which is about the best spell a cleric has.

Ironwood has a 1.5 sec channel and 0.8 sec cast time. So 107 mp cost actually works out to a nominal mp consumption rate of 107/2.3 = 46.5. Not very different from Ironheart.

But any veno worth their salt will tell you that their best damage spell is Lucky Scarab. At 276 mana, 1.5 sec channel and 0.8 sec cast, it works out to a nominal mp consumption rate of 276/2.3 = 120 mp/sec. More than double the nominal mp consumption rate of Ironheart, best spell vs. best spell. Who's laughing now?

(The mp/sec figures for the cleric will go up more with channeling, since their channel time is longer.)

When I pull out all the stops, I can nearly empty my veno's mana bar in 1 min (enough time for Soul Transfuse to recycle). It's so quick that I frequently don't even bother with Nature's Grace or Metabolic Boost since they frequently haven't recycled and would thus upset the pattern of attacks I've developed, and they would take away valuable time I could be spending attacking.

As others have said, if you're willing to play a veno poorly, yes you can have a phenomenally low mp burn rate. But comparing the mp burn rate of a poorly played veno vs. a well played cleric isn't going to win you many arguments. A well-played veno has a mp burn rate as high as if not higher than most any other class. The City of Abominations is one place where I do pull out all the stops. I burn through a fair number of yuanxiao and jiaozi every time I do it. I'd use even more mana if the Rainbows weren't useless there, and I didn't forego Ironwood to save chi.

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Brael already touched on this, but I wanted to expand on it. Ironheart has a 4 sec opportunity cost (3 sec channel, 1 sec cast), so the nominal mp consumption rate on it will be 230/4 = 57.5 mp/sec.

Venomous happens to be just about the worst spell a veno can use - I only use it when all my other spells are on cooldown, which isn't often. But to entertain you, it has a 1.5 sec channel and 1 sec cast time. That gives a nominal mp consumption rate of 69/2.5 = 27.6 mp/sec. Lower than Ironheart, yes, but like I said, this is about the worst DD spell a veno has. Compared to Ironheart which is about the best spell a cleric has.

Ironwood has a 1.5 sec channel and 0.8 sec cast time. So 107 mp cost actually works out to a nominal mp consumption rate of 107/2.3 = 46.5. Not very different from Ironheart.

Those numbers make me think you were looking at Purehearted. Ironheart has a 1.0 second channel and cast. So that would work out to about 114.75 MP per second. Just a minor nitpick...

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Most MP usage? Wizard spamming Undine strike
b:chuckle
600 MP 1.0 second channeling .5 second cast
b:laugh

we blow all your mp usages out of teh water.
b:chuckle

Solandri - Heavens Tear

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Those numbers make me think you were looking at Purehearted. Ironheart has a 1.0 second channel and cast. So that would work out to about 114.75 MP per second. Just a minor nitpick...

Thanks. Clicked on the wrong spell.

Taranta - Dreamweaver

All I'm going to say with this topic is that all the magic classes have their own costs, and their own dominant cost. A cleric has the highest cost for the "necessary" skills, followed closely by mp. A Wizard has the highest overall Mp cost. A Veno has the highest long-term costs.

Why I say veno's have the highest long term costs: Yes, we can solo things others can't. Yes, we do have 2 amazing pets in the cash shop. Even with the state of the economy, they're not that expensive. Lazy venomancers can even earn an enormous amount by letting the pet do all the work. The same lazy venomancers can get by with only maxing 3 skills (venomous, Ironwood, Pet heal).

Unfortunately, a veno also has the lowest potential to join squads as compared to the other Magic classes. Squads have the lowest short term gains, but extremely good long term gains. A squad can earn more money in drops and coin per hour compared to any solo player, not to mention higher total exp earned(not Zhen party). Bring the squad specific instances, and that disparity between the two increases even more.

Think about it. Who would you rather have for an RB: A veno, or another cleric/wiz. Even in TT squads, a veno can do more and earn less as compared to other members. Leveling takes time. Pets cost a player in both coin and Sp, as leveling skills is important, if not entirely necessary. The expansions to the pet bag comes from one of the highest costing items for pet food. It takes an enormous amount of Adv. Mystical Tome pages (360) to get all the sage/demon skills. (I don't know the amounts for the other classes, but 360 seemed to be the highest when I glanced at it. Prove me wrong if I am). There's the pet food/tome conundrum, as it is either extremely expensive to make your own tome or purchase one, or have a slow but continuous drain on your funds to keep a pet's loyalty up.

So, everyone has their own costs. Veno's just get the simplest solution to fixing that cost. If you're lazy, then yes, a veno is cheaper than the other classes. If you don't want to be left out of squads because you're horrible at your class, then no, veno is not cheaper. Take your pick.

tweakz

Didn't read. Harsh colors. Try some netiquette.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

Taranta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

All I'm going to say with this topic is that all the magic classes have their own costs, and their own dominant cost. A cleric has the highest cost for the "necessary" skills, followed closely by mp. A Wizard has the highest overall Mp cost. A Veno has the highest long-term costs.

Why I say veno's have the highest long term costs: Yes, we can solo things others can't. Yes, we do have 2 amazing pets in the cash shop. Even with the state of the economy, they're not that expensive. Lazy venomancers can even earn an enormous amount by letting the pet do all the work. The same lazy venomancers can get by with only maxing 3 skills (venomous, Ironwood, Pet heal).

Unfortunately, a veno also has the lowest potential to join squads as compared to the other Magic classes. Squads have the lowest short term gains, but extremely good long term gains. A squad can earn more money in drops and coin per hour compared to any solo player, not to mention higher total exp earned(not Zhen party). Bring the squad specific instances, and that disparity between the two increases even more.

Think about it. Who would you rather have for an RB: A veno, or another cleric/wiz. Even in TT squads, a veno can do more and earn less as compared to other members. Leveling takes time. Pets cost a player in both coin and Sp, as leveling skills is important, if not entirely necessary. The expansions to the pet bag comes from one of the highest costing items for pet food. It takes an enormous amount of Adv. Mystical Tome pages (360) to get all the sage/demon skills. (I don't know the amounts for the other classes, but 360 seemed to be the highest when I glanced at it. Prove me wrong if I am). There's the pet food/tome conundrum, as it is either extremely expensive to make your own tome or purchase one, or have a slow but continuous drain on your funds to keep a pet's loyalty up.

So, everyone has their own costs. Veno's just get the simplest solution to fixing that cost. If you're lazy, then yes, a veno is cheaper than the other classes. If you don't want to be left out of squads because you're horrible at your class, then no, veno is not cheaper. Take your pick.

I totally agree on this one b:surrender

Cancerr - Lost City

The veno is cheap because it virtually does not need weapons or armor...of course its much more efficient that way >.>

Archers need to spend ridiculous amounts on skills and arrows are expensive.
Veno pet food is cheap and the skills are not exactly necessary.

My BM spent 60mil+ on his gx, thats 1 wep...a veno with a herc can go do HH and make mils and mils relatively fast.

Blah blah blah

filler material to make arguement better

And there you have it venos r the cheapest

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Brael already touched on this, but I wanted to expand on it. Ironheart has a 4 sec opportunity cost (3 sec channel, 1 sec cast), so the nominal mp consumption rate on it will be 230/4 = 57.5 mp/sec.

Venomous happens to be just about the worst spell a veno can use - I only use it when all my other spells are on cooldown, which isn't often. But to entertain you, it has a 1.5 sec channel and 1 sec cast time. That gives a nominal mp consumption rate of 69/2.5 = 27.6 mp/sec. Lower than Ironheart, yes, but like I said, this is about the worst DD spell a veno has. Compared to Ironheart which is about the best spell a cleric has.

Ironwood has a 1.5 sec channel and 0.8 sec cast time. So 107 mp cost actually works out to a nominal mp consumption rate of 107/2.3 = 46.5. Not very different from Ironheart.

But any veno worth their salt will tell you that their best damage spell is Lucky Scarab. At 276 mana, 1.5 sec channel and 0.8 sec cast, it works out to a nominal mp consumption rate of 276/2.3 = 120 mp/sec. More than double the nominal mp consumption rate of Ironheart, best spell vs. best spell. Who's laughing now?

(The mp/sec figures for the cleric will go up more with channeling, since their channel time is longer.)

When I pull out all the stops, I can nearly empty my veno's mana bar in 1 min (enough time for Soul Transfuse to recycle). It's so quick that I frequently don't even bother with Nature's Grace or Metabolic Boost since they frequently haven't recycled and would thus upset the pattern of attacks I've developed, and they would take away valuable time I could be spending attacking.

As others have said, if you're willing to play a veno poorly, yes you can have a phenomenally low mp burn rate. But comparing the mp burn rate of a poorly played veno vs. a well played cleric isn't going to win you many arguments. A well-played veno has a mp burn rate as high as if not higher than most any other class. The City of Abominations is one place where I do pull out all the stops. I burn through a fair number of yuanxiao and jiaozi every time I do it. I'd use even more mana if the Rainbows weren't useless there, and I didn't forego Ironwood to save chi.

You failed to mention about our group healing spell(mine is maxed btw). It uses 970mp, channeling 3.5 seconds(i dont have channeling gear btw), and 3 sec cooldown. We use that alot on aoe bosses such as pole and nob in fb69 and FCC runs. Can u calculate that for me plz b:surrender

Brael - Dreamweaver

Well, the examples you listed are fights where very few ae's should ever fire, and the ones that do are weak. I would argue it's the responsibility of the casters/archers to be out of range of the strong ones, and use potions to cover themselves. The presence of a cleric doesn't mean you can slack on your own survival.

On top of that, a barbarian can interrupt almost every cast on the fights you listed, so your use of that spell is more recovery for when barbarians mess up than a primary heal. Finally, you don't chain cast that spell on the fights you provided so providing the max heal/sec and mana/sec used is misleading. It's a supplemental heal on top of your others, much like Lucky Scarab is a supplemental nuke for us.

That said, chromatic healing beam 10 (since other skills were calculated at 10) is 216.56 mana/sec if you were to chain cast only that. That would be a huge waste of mana though unless everyone in the squad is taking similar amounts of damage.

If we were to assume the barbarian in your squad is utterly worthless and the usual 12 sec casting cycle of most mobs/bosses (bosses in FC are on different timers for their AE's), you would be looking at casting this once per 12 seconds with ironheart filling the gaps.

At 0 channeling that's 4 ih and 1 beam for a casting cycle or 157.33/sec.

If however you have a mediocre barbarian that can hit 2/3 of ae's, you'll actually have 18 IH+1 beam in a 36 sec casting cycle, which would change the numbers to 128.94 mana/sec.

If you have a good/great barbarian hitting 90% of ae's isn't out of the question, that changes things to 58 IH+1 beam in a 120 sec casting cycle, bringing the numbers to 119 mana/sec with no channeling.

Essentially, the drain on you that beam is, is directly related to how well your barbarians and fist bm's do their jobs.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, the examples you listed are fights where very few ae's should ever fire, and the ones that do are weak. I would argue it's the responsibility of the casters/archers to be out of range of the strong ones, and use potions to cover themselves. The presence of a cleric doesn't mean you can slack on your own survival.

On top of that, a barbarian can interrupt almost every cast on the fights you listed, so your use of that spell is more recovery for when barbarians mess up than a primary heal. Finally, you don't chain cast that spell on the fights you provided so providing the max heal/sec and mana/sec used is misleading. It's a supplemental heal on top of your others, much like Lucky Scarab is a supplemental nuke for us.

That said, chromatic healing beam 10 (since other skills were calculated at 10) is 216.56 mana/sec if you were to chain cast only that. That would be a huge waste of mana though unless everyone in the squad is taking similar amounts of damage.

If we were to assume the barbarian in your squad is utterly worthless and the usual 12 sec casting cycle of most mobs/bosses (bosses in FC are on different timers for their AE's), you would be looking at casting this once per 12 seconds with ironheart filling the gaps.

At 0 channeling that's 4 ih and 1 beam for a casting cycle or 157.33/sec.

If however you have a mediocre barbarian that can hit 2/3 of ae's, you'll actually have 18 IH+1 beam in a 36 sec casting cycle, which would change the numbers to 128.94 mana/sec.

If you have a good/great barbarian hitting 90% of ae's isn't out of the question, that changes things to 58 IH+1 beam in a 120 sec casting cycle, bringing the numbers to 119 mana/sec with no channeling.

Essentially, the drain on you that beam is, is directly related to how well your barbarians and fist bm's do their jobs.

b:sadb:sad Omg thats so true...-sigh- It's rare for me to find a good barb like that honestly so yea your totally right on that one b:surrender

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Taranta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

All I'm going to say with this topic is that all the magic classes have their own costs, and their own dominant cost. A cleric has the highest cost for the "necessary" skills, followed closely by mp. A Wizard has the highest overall Mp cost. A Veno has the highest long-term costs.

i agree with 1st thing

Unfortunately, a veno also has the lowest potential to join squads as compared to the other Magic classes. Squads have the lowest short term gains, but extremely good long term gains. A squad can earn more money in drops and coin per hour compared to any solo player, not to mention higher total exp earned(not Zhen party). Bring the squad specific instances, and that disparity between the two increases even more.

sry but with tt/bh mold hunts 1st is the cleric/barb/veno not the wizzy,archer.
a squad can solo on fishings or anywhere another side if i want go for exp then i go to delta (there veno welcome for all class squad,dont need huge eq cause he not in the center of attacks and in begining u must just dig dig and kill the mob who drop bean ).

here bm win but lets tell to that too few skill is far more expensive with in game gold, like a dark archer quickshot, dark earth barrier or the 3-4 mastery to wizz/bm etc ect

Adv. Mystical Pages for Demon/Sage skill books.480 pages-16 Bld.books:D/S. 300 pages-10 Wzd.books:D/S. 330 pages-11 Brb.books:D/S. 360 pages-12 Vnm.books:D/S. 270 pages-9 Arc.books:D/S. 300 pages-10 Clr.books:D/S.

There's the pet food/tome conundrum, as it is either extremely expensive to make your own tome or purchase one, or have a slow but continuous drain on your funds to keep a pet's loyalty up.

have somebody who not opened the chest at lv80 for 1%crit book? or this changed in thsi server? that feed the pet allways, never need food anymore for pet and if we talk about a tt, u get alot food from grind too, more than enough that 100 loyality from food for sometimes petdieing in tt(depend where u grind)

Even in TT squads, a veno can do more and earn less as compared to other members.

and veno choose before another DD's too in most of time b:surrender

Ironheart has a 4 sec opportunity cost (3 sec channel, 1 sec cast)

since when? u every tryed? u really can do in every 4 sec? then or u got too much lag or something bad around there XD

I didn't compare chromatic heal though as it's not something you would chain

and what do that poor cleric in hell 99 last boss when in bb maybe die others in zhen cause zhen is slow or got skill interupt like few boss do in aoe?

If you don't want to be left out of squads because you're horrible at your class, then no, veno is not cheaper.

i rarly got problem if i got golem with sucks eq than when i playerd with barb or with cleric with sucks weapon or armor and really increased the pt wipe chance cause my eq.

kenlee

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

-Venos have a CHOICE if they want a legendary pet or not so that factor is out

clerics have a choise to go FAC so lvling heals is a CHOISE
same as those fail clerics, tell me how many squad invites get a high lvl veno w/o herc?

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

No I am not 10 and I am older than you are if you can recall the days of black and white TV sets and Appollo 11 first landing on the moon.I remember when Nixon resinged from office as from all the watergate hearings.They didn't even have good video card to play those games back then as well it was only windows 98.

maybe i'm older that you but you will never know anyway
i've played video games (not online) since spectrum and commodore. before win98 there was win3 then win95, on win3 you could not do much but you could play on win95. ultima online is another mmo from '97, anyway we are not supposed to say anything about other games here.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

This game has been out that long a year isn't that long and it doesn't seem like they have alts if they did thet would know the true cost of clerics.

i play this game from 2007 and this game is actually from 2005.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't use charms as I know how to manage my mana just fine using pots and since I play a healer in another I have to mamage my mana as we don't have charms,powders and pots.

wasnt you saying that you burn half charm in w/e runs?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

You failed to mention about our group healing spell(mine is maxed btw). It uses 970mp, channeling 3.5 seconds(i dont have channeling gear btw), and 3 sec cooldown. We use that alot on aoe bosses such as pole and nob in fb69 and FCC runs. Can u calculate that for me plz b:surrender

No I didn't fail to mention it. I chose not to mention it. The point of my post was the demonstrate why the metric you were using (mana cost of spells) was a very poor choice to evaluate mana consumption. Aside from the wrong data entry which Lady_Xelx was kind enough to correct and provide recalculated figures for, everyone (including you) seems to agree that the mp/sec metric I gave is a much better metric. If you wish to calculate and post figures for the group heal using that metric, feel free. I'm satisfied knowing that your initial poor choice of metric has been replaced by a better (but still not best) metric.

Frankly I think this is an inane topic, some perverse my class' junk is bigger that your class' debate. I don't really care which class has the highest mp burn rate (personally I think clerics do, but they also have a potentially higher kill rate and broader spectrum of potential kills than venos to compensate for it). The type of argument that's dominated by personalities which feel best about themselves when they put down others. But if people are going to make inane arguments, at least make them good ones.

/NiKi - Lost City

Cancerr - Lost City wrote: »

My BM spent 60mil+ on his gx, thats 1 wep...a veno with a herc can go do HH and make mils and mils relatively fast.

or u could just farm hh weapons with ur guild,and make a veno to get herc on gift from pwi then farm all those mils

Jandira - Sanctuary

I had heard venos make money. I had started a veno, screwed up the build and abandoned her. Got bored and started working on her. Boyfriend says, how come you haven't levelved your pet skills? I go to Mrs. Zoologist and OMG... veno pets are WAY expensive. Thus my veno is going to lvl very slowly in order to keep up with everything as I don't want her to be a high lvl veno with low lvl pet skills.

So are venos cheap and easy money makers? Not in my opinion. They have so many skills plus pet skills that I'm a little scared to play her as I'm afraid I can't play her "right."

Kalee - Lost City

When u have a higher lvl veno, making money/cash is easy considering if u put the time and effort into it. I still have a magmite, and i have not upgraded any skills but i am still at least able to solo some HH and earn some good money from it. But venos were the cheapest class before all the prices of everything started going up. The herc/phoenix were around 8mill when i was lvl 30. So most venos these days r pretty god damn rich. They just bought a herc back when it was cheap and now they just solo HH. b:victory

Newyn - Heavens Tear

Some thing I have done whit my cleric:
AOE girind on 15 lvls higer then me. 10+ mobs posion mobs but anyway.
Killed mobs 20+ lvls higer then me. All elements exept metal so far.
Solo mode in TT 1-1 and 1-2. Takes some time and MP
Solo BH/FB 19-59 exept Rank and Wywern in BH 51. Haven't tryed them yeat.
Done TT 1-2 only using 8 lvl 75 MP herb (forgot the name) and 50 lvl 66 MP pots. Was secend cler but as most clerics should know u use more MP pots DDing then Healing.

U get 300hp + 20% of ure magic dam from BB. acording to www.ecatomb.net

U get more and beter drops in TT as cleric in squads. Its mostly Suber-Tank-Cleric-DD acording to lvl. DD=Wiz,BM and Veno
Most Venos do them in squad to save time. Time is money/xp/fun as most ppl prob agre on.

I got 2 heals 4 debuff 2 attacks and purify thats not maxed for my lvl,
For party U only need IH, Wellspring and BB the rest can be lvl 1. For some solo we can throw in Plume Shot. Now thats 4 skills that u must have. For solo u actuly only need IH and Plume Shot. Buffs are optional not a most, same with Debuff and attack skills.
I wouldnt squad u if u hade those skills thou. It would be the same for any class, dosn't mater how badly we need that class.

About Venos being the chepest class:
Its 1 of the esier class to make money, at lower lvl because of the pet. U dont have to repaire gear as much or get as much pots sa other. Ure gear can be kinda crapy to, less risk u get agro if u got low M-damage.
The higer lvl u go, the more its going to even out. Merchant, Farming, TT etc
Some chose to do TT solo some don't. Id do TT solo for the feling of being abel todo something most ppl can't. And if I got drops as my first 2-2 it would be profitable.

Numuta - Heavens Tear

this is a conversation i've always wondered about. i use to read all over about people saying this and that about it. i was wondering if i was a bad veno because i seemed to have all these expenses..cause it's not just my skills..has anyone looked at the price for pet skills? in one way or another i always seem to be getting dinged in the coin purse for something..

Kalee - Lost City

Well just decide whether u really really need the skill or not, always try and look for the cheapest if possible. But my magmite is lvl 72 right now and i have not increased anything on its skills, it works just fine to me. Some skills need to fit the purpose ur getting it for. Just comes down to ur personal opinion on the expenses u pay, if u need it or just want it.

Havilah - Sanctuary

If you want to add a new skill to your pet, look in the auction house and compare price with ms.zoologist. Also, before adding/upgrading/changing skill on a pet, ask yourself it your pet need it for it's role.

For example, having multiple (elemental)bash at lv1 can be better than an higher lv bash(my sawfly still keep agro using both of it's starter skill).

Aniella - Harshlands

venos easy..don't need lvl skills over 50+..y just need the most used skils up to 10...y don't need herc/nix..y can easy get a good pet.
don't need rep gear..since pet get all the dg..so venos cost 0 coins..y can make 3-6m on a week if y save..kill alot /do quests

if ya wnat make coins fast..tame rare or grind..solo fb/tts/grind mats..make wines..alot to do...