Demon VS Sage

24

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  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    b:laugh

    Trial and error tells me that a level 100 demon with 6269 unbuffed pdef would have a 1% damage reduction advantage over a level 100 sage with the same unbuffed pdef. This assumes that the wizards also have their cleric and blademaster buffs for physical defense and that the buffing blademaster was a sage. With any other assumptions (except for a brief burst of pdef from a demon buff), your wizards would need more unbuffed physical defense for their damage reduction difference to be 1%.

    But with this much physical defense and these buffs, our sage would have almost 89% damage reduction and our demon would have almost 90% damage reduction. This means that our demon could absorb almost 10% more physical damage than our sage. If this difference was worthless, then that +5% health offered by a sky demon's pearl must also be worthless.

    now you compare 1% dmg reduction with a necklace that give 5% HP and 8 str (= 8 magic).
    good job.
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  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    Yes, of course I read his posts. Did you read mine? If so, why did you quote mine and ask that question

    the hp you gain from using more hp shards and less p. def ones is much better than a whole 1% resistance from physical attacks
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    well, I dunno where do you want to go with it but fine....
    Let's say someone does 10k dmg before gear reduction.
    with a 65% reduction u get 4500 dmg
    with a 66% reduction u get 4400 dmg. Where is that 10% absorb more dmg you were talking about?
    Second, sage spark gives you additional 25% dmg reduction. Talking about survival? there u go, that's survival. Stack it with a windshield or a dmg red. pot and let's see how a demon can match that.
    ____________
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  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    yeah, I enjoy the sage advantages too. We have the biggest and baddest skill in game, 4th spam skill (SR), and PvE is free.
    But I can see why 1v1 the Demon has the upper hand. But seriously, for 1v1 PvP if u chose a wizard over an archer u have some serious problems upstairs.

    demons cant hit as hard as sages in Sutra->FOW->BIDS->PYRO->DP
    not just cuz of the dangerous buff that may kick in bids but also from the +5% dmg we get from masteries b:victory




    sry i cant give up from pvp when i talk about sage and demon b:surrender
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  • Lyzzern - Lost City
    Lyzzern - Lost City Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Demon has Sandstorm.
    Demon has more critical (Don't you come with the crappy Sage BIDS that's only a bit useful for TW).
    Demon has faster casting.
    Sage overwrites undine OMGWTF you gna blow up our best skill going sage b:surrender.
    Demon is for hard ****.
    Sage is for carebears.
    Flame away b:victory
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  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »
    Demon has Sandstorm.
    Demon has more critical (Don't you come with the crappy Sage BIDS that's only a bit useful for TW).
    Demon has faster casting.
    Sage overwrites undine OMGWTF you gna blow up our best skill going sage b:surrender.
    Demon is for hard ****.
    Sage is for carebears.
    Flame away b:victory

    There is an oxy moron if I've ever seen one..
    lol wow this post almost made me lol obvious troll
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  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »
    Demon has Sandstorm.
    Demon has more critical (Don't you come with the crappy Sage BIDS that's only a bit useful for TW).
    Demon has faster casting.
    Sage overwrites undine OMGWTF you gna blow up our best skill going sage b:surrender.
    Demon is for hard ****.
    Sage is for carebears.
    Flame away b:victory

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASV8utd3mjA&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9pOUrtepUo&feature=related

    crappy?
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  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    I thought we were talking of sage and demon stone barrier?

    If we have a sage with 9286 base physical defense, self buffed, fighting a level 150 [?] boss, the sage will have 65% damage reduction. A demon with this same armor fighting this same boss will have 69.9% damage reduction.

    Or, if we have a sage with 5510 base physical defense, self buffed, fighting a level 89 monster, the sage will have 65% damage reduction. A demon with this same armor fighting this same monster will have 69.9% damage reduction.

    You can not construct an example where a sage has 65% damage reduction and a demon has 66% damage reduction unless they also have different armor, because demon stone barrier is better than that.

    So, anyways, if our sage would take 4500 damage, our demon would take 3871 damage. That would be something like a 16% reduction in damage taken.

    Or, if the raw damage was 10000, our sage would take 3500 damage and our demon would take 3011 damage. (Which is still slightly over 16% reduced damage for our demon.)
    9200 base phys def? 5510 base phys def? are u kidding me? Stop dreaming.
    A typical wizard at 100 has around 10k-12k pdef full buffed. After that value smart wizards try to raise their HP, because the law of diminishing returns. 5% diff in reduction? are u kidding me? Please, come back on earth, mkay?


    Demon has Sandstorm.
    Demon has more critical (Don't you come with the crappy Sage BIDS that's only a bit useful for TW).
    Demon has faster casting.
    Sage overwrites undine OMGWTF you gna blow up our best skill going sage .
    Demon is for hard ****.
    Sage is for carebears.
    Flame away
    That red part my friend, in free translation is " I'm lvl 51 and I have no idea wtf am i talking about "
    Lvl 51s giving /thread statements on sage vs demon. Nice, very nice.
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  • /Groovy/ - Harshlands
    /Groovy/ - Harshlands Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »
    Demon has Sandstorm. Which deals about the same damage when compared to Sage Sandstorm + Sage Earth Mastery. Oh, and 50% longer debuff time on SS isn't ****, you will know that when archer misses stun on you once or twice.
    Demon has more critical (Don't you come with the crappy Sage BIDS that's only a bit useful for TW). Go Light Armor build then, it has even higher crit chance :P No comment on your opinion about BIDS, go get it first and you will see :)
    Demon has faster casting. Channeling. And true, Demon Spark and Wellspring Quaff are awesome.
    Sage overwrites undine OMGWTF you gna blow up our best skill going sage b:surrender. I love them but those are rather PvE skills man. And Sage version makes them even better for PvE. In PvP you use Pyro, Gush, Stone Rain, Sandstorm and ultis.
    Demon is for hard ****.
    Sage is for carebears. It will humiliate my opponents then - being killed by a carebear b:laugh
    Flame away b:victory I'm not into flaming you but you should wait until you hit 80+ and then start thinking seriously which path to pick. You have no idea how many times I've changed my mind, that's because BOTH PATHS ARE GOOD, YOU JUST PICK THE ONE WHICH SUITS *YOU* BETTER (Caps for epic conclusion)

    Reply in red
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  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    only i add my opinion here
    Demon has faster casting. Channeling. And true, Demon Spark and Wellspring Quaff are awesome.

    this true, demon faster but that myth u do 20% more dmg than sage in x sec time depend skill what u used and from other things, but have channeling and casting too, when u use sutra u cant use a billion skill cause same reason.
    So again i want blow that myth the demon spark is very very more dmg cause -25%, yes more than sage but every skill have chanting/casting (=not uber difference) and for fast skills (fast skill more better dps than nuke) that 25% usefull but not "uber awasome".

    yea i think between sage and demon dont ahve huge difference and most of minor difference will be cloud when somebody got higher refined eq. both nice, only i will a bit sage more group pk and pve oriented if both 2 path have lower budget because after a medium refine really i dont see too huge difference in dmg in pve/pvp both 2path is ok.

    i dont talk here about mastery.
  • Xegeth - Dreamweaver
    Xegeth - Dreamweaver Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »
    Demon has Sandstorm.
    Demon has more critical (Don't you come with the crappy Sage BIDS that's only a bit useful for TW).
    Demon has faster casting.
    Sage overwrites undine OMGWTF you gna blow up our best skill going sage b:surrender.
    Demon is for hard ****.
    Sage is for carebears.
    Flame away b:victory

    Sorry but am I the only one thinking of that Wizards life cycle Thread? "Sage/Demon is better than xx, and I know that because I am lvl 53" xD

    Once you reach a level that is not completly non factor you will probably come to the opinion that either way has its advantages.

    Oh and some infos for you from someone that actually HAS sage Divine pyro: It does not overwrite undine. If you debuff with undine, the d. pyro debuff does not proc and vice versa. It can still be useful, because you dun always have time to debuff with undine, and starting a sutra combo with sage d. pyro and then use pyro and phoenix can be quite powerful.

    Oh and your comment on sage BIDS sounds as if you really want people laughing at you. Ever cared to listen to people or watch tw/pk videos of people who actually HAVE that skill?

    But what do I know, I am just a carebear that happens to be 40+ lvl above you. ;) Rock on, hard ****!
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  • Whiteleo - Lost City
    Whiteleo - Lost City Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Oh and some infos for you from someone that actually HAS sage Divine pyro: It does not overwrite undine.
    QUOTE]

    u sure?, i think wiz debuff skills overwrite each other.
    i'm pretty sure Gush slow effect overwrite the Gsnare?
    and sage DPyro overwrite Undine and Undine overwrite sage Dpyro ? etc
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »
    Sage overwrites undine
    The first buff stays... if you undine before glacial snare/divine pyro, they won't overwrite anything.


    Both of those skills are almost useless anyway. Glacial Snare is nothing but a pve skill or a replacement for sandstorm for the ones that don't have it. Has a long casting time so even for demons it's not great compared to sandstorm.


    Might as well stop posting, you're a moron. Sage BIDS says hi.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lyzzern - Lost City wrote: »
    Demon has Sandstorm.
    Demon has more critical (Don't you come with the crappy Sage BIDS that's only a bit useful for TW).
    Demon has faster casting.
    Sage overwrites undine OMGWTF you gna blow up our best skill going sage b:surrender.
    Demon is for hard ****.
    Sage is for carebears.
    Flame away b:victory

    You forgot mention chi. But I understand at your level you don't have idea what is chi useful for. :-))))

    All builds are good. Also I would say most saga advantages came al late levels. Like ultimates and AOE FoW etc.
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  • Inabikari - Raging Tide
    Inabikari - Raging Tide Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Sage BIDS = win. Nuff said. XD Personally, I think that pure arcane wizzies generally tend to lean for sage because of chi, to make nukes moar win.
    RIP Resolve. You guys still owe me TW pay. XD

    Varden- <3 you all!
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    The first buff stays... if you undine before glacial snare/divine pyro, they won't overwrite anything.

    Woooooot
    no overwriting!
    :D
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  • Damaged - Lost City
    Damaged - Lost City Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

    Both of those skills are almost useless anyway. Glacial Snare is nothing but a pve skill or a replacement for sandstorm for the ones that don't have it. Has a long casting time so even for demons it's not great compared to sandstorm.

    GS = great nuke vs other mages (hello 5k~ crits @ +7), great for last spell in sutra, great for use on generic earth mob ****.
  • SurferGirl - Dreamweaver
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    The first buff stays... if you undine before glacial snare/divine pyro, they won't overwrite anything.


    Both of those skills are almost useless anyway. Glacial Snare is nothing but a pve skill or a replacement for sandstorm for the ones that don't have it. Has a long casting time so even for demons it's not great compared to sandstorm.


    Might as well stop posting, you're a moron. Sage BIDS says hi.

    lolz ''sage BIDS says hi'' that chat was just some nusty dmging imo that skill alone is better then all of demon skills but o well idc less what other ppl go i personally hope evrey1 on my server go demon and ill be only sage b:thanks
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    lolz ''sage BIDS says hi'' that chat was just some nusty dmging imo that skill alone is better then all of demon skills but o well idc less what other ppl go i personally hope evrey1 on my server go demon and ill be only sage b:thanks

    b:cutesowwie, there is another one coming through
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • SurferGirl - Dreamweaver
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:cutesowwie, there is another one coming through
    ok so sorry but il have to keep kill u b:angryb:angry


    edit: trys again to convince go demon u got 20% chance to stun D: **** sage bid like its been said before its weak and just bit usefull for tw
  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Sage Black Ice Dragon Strike is the HARDEST HITTER SKILL on this freaking game, lets 1 shot and have fun =)




    had nothin better to do atm rolf
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  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ok so sorry but il have to keep kill u b:angryb:angry


    edit: trys again to convince go demon u got 20% chance to stun D: **** sage bid like its been said before its weak and just bit usefull for tw

    im not a squishy anymore, if you get my drift(if you dont see ya this week in TW)

    no i went down the demon path before and not much cant change me back.
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    im not a squishy anymore, if you get my drift(if you dont see ya this week in TW)

    no i went down the demon path before and not much cant change me back.

    go demon!!!!
    u got stun from emberstorm+demon spark+bids may cost u no chi+pyro have less channel+gush does more dmg+masteries have some crit rate+FOW wiht less cool down+WOP wiht higher aoe range+SS have more add dmg+Quaff have -20% channel+shrink teles more+db may give u some health+DP and GS have less chan for some nuke agains bosses or pvp hardcore...

    i just want see sage book price goign down b:surrender
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  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    Demon armageddon (with appropriate axes) can sometimes do more damage than sage BIDS's maximum damage.

    SOMETIMES is not enough.

    b:angry
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    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Xegeth - Dreamweaver
    Xegeth - Dreamweaver Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I just tried the debuff stuff out on a random lvl 8x mob without weapon. With the DP debuff I do 4.1k with pyro, with undine it is 4.9k. If I use undine, then DP and finally pyro, it is 4.9k as well. The debuffs do NOT overwrite each other.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SurferGirl - Dreamweaver
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    Demon armageddon (with appropriate axes) can sometimes do more damage than sage BIDS's maximum damage.

    arma may do more dmg but its not so often u need both zerk and crit to do it

    also u need to be close range to do it and also it drops the barb hp


    sage bid is from range and its most likely to crit and it doesnt have any side affect thats why its the most feared skill in the game u can see the barb coming 2 u u cant see the wiz standing 30 met away casting the bid
  • SurferGirl - Dreamweaver
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I just tried the debuff stuff out on a random lvl 8x mob without weapon. With the DP debuff I do 4.1k with pyro, with undine it is 4.9k. If I use undine, then DP and finally pyro, it is 4.9k as well. The debuffs do NOT overwrite each other.

    b:cry how did u got a sage divine pyro get me one ill buy b:dirty
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:cry how did u got a sage divine pyro get me one ill buy b:dirty

    Same here. I need it too. But I was lucky. Recently I bought sage phoenix. And I have to say AMAZING.b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SurferGirl - Dreamweaver
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Same here. I need it too. But I was lucky. Recently I bought sage phoenix. And I have to say AMAZING.b:victory

    meh i hate u guys u keep making me jealous b:cry
  • Kannone - Heavens Tear
    Kannone - Heavens Tear Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You forgot mention chi. But I understand at your level you don't have idea what is chi useful for. :-))))

    All builds are good. Also I would say most saga advantages came al late levels. Like ultimates and AOE FoW etc.

    Yeah pretty much this. Sage, I still feel, is better when you only have gush, pyro, stone rain lv 11... when all 89 & 92 skills are accounted for then Demon is way better than sage. Sage then really comes to power at 99 when the dooms & FoW are learned (+lv 92 masteries), then it's game over Sage > Demon. Really depends where you wanna stop PvE'ing with your mage & start PvP, pre-99 really seems to favor demons ('specially if you focus more on collecting the skills than leveling), lv. 99+...I'll take sage thanks b:thanks

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