Helping?

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · December 2009

Maybe it's just on sanctuary but is it just me or is helping each other becoming something very rare in factions lately? I see more and more players from large factions in barely refined equips far below their level....and anytime I ask them about this the response is usually that "they can't afford better and their faction never takes them on TT runs".

Now, maybe I'm wrong on this but isn't a faction supposed to be like a team? I see these large factions week after week hurling themselves at the main landowners meaninglessly and losing, and when you think of the mass of 8x-9x in 7x equips trying to hold off an army of 9x-10x cash shoppers it's little wonder why. Shouldn't a faction make it a goal to have their members properly equipped before sending them into a TW? I mean, as long as they're willing to work for it and help others too in whatever way they can. As well as making the faction stronger, it'll make players more loyal, and form a stronger bond between members.

Also, the best leveling methods are instances like frost/rebirth/whatever, but from experience in a number of factions and discussing with a lot of players, it seems these tend to be run only among a small select group with exp/gear/high level in a faction, with the rest being expected to sort out their own way. And again, if you want to TW sending in 7x-9x against pure 9-10x is just silly. A portion of your faction grows and the rest just linger.

Before anyone claims I'm just QQ'ing that no one does everything for you, I'm probably one of the few ppl who would be more than happy to run TT's and instances and helping all day purely for someone else's benefit. I'm just curious what happened to the teamwork

in my opinion working together with others is part of the fun in the game

Boozin - Sanctuary · December 2009

Couldn't agree more.. b:thanks

Skimi - Dreamweaver · December 2009

Well high lvls cant always help lowbies, they keep tell them to make their own squads, but many lowbies dont do that. They cant even start make their squad, they just wait when get high lvl person and ask them to get rest of party too. And those people who do listen higher lvls and try to form their lvl squads often fail cuz rest of their lvl players don't want that.
I think faction isn't one big team, but many 6 ppl teams who do their dailies etc together. If one team is done like that then it's easy for them, if 1 person is missing they can replace it and do their daily stuff. If one person have to find 5 other ppl daily then that's a problem. They can't get rbs/fcs/tts done or anything. And it is their problem that they can't make friends. I was in nice team with ppl from each class with who did dailies together, always at same time, if one couldn't come online we replaced that person with someone else, helped each other do tt runs for weps/gears etc. Now because we are diff level we have split up and made 3-4 new groups of 6 ppl who do everything together. I can't keep my high lvl friends to help me with my stuff, tho they still help if i really need. In bigger guilds it is even easier to do it because there r more ppl at same time zone and plays same amount of time per day, it's just they don't want or have problems to make their own group with friends. And it's more fun to be in same group daily, its a race, lowest lvl have to keep up with highest level in their team or they will have to find new team.
If you say that faction have to be one big team then all the high levels are supposed to pull up lowbies to their lvl and sacrifice their own time/fun etc? If people do that then only lowbies will make progress and whole faction will be weak

screwnickslol · December 2009

Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you say that faction have to be one big team then all the high levels are supposed to pull up lowbies to their lvl and sacrifice their own time/fun etc? If people do that then only lowbies will make progress and whole faction will be weak

and that there is the thought process that causes so many factions to fail

Boozin - Sanctuary · December 2009

@Skimi..

I could be wrong, but I didn't get the impression OP ment for high lvl's to help the lower ones in the fac at the expense of everything else. I think ofcourse the high lvl's in a fac need time to lvl themselves, do their own dailies etc, but from friends I talk to an work with around my own lvl from multiple fac's (hey, maybe it is just on sanc) that they are basically ignored from their leaders/directors etc..

I think a fac is one big group that should work together to make itself stronger from the inside out, but i dunno... maybe ive just gained that mentality from being a member of a smaller fac..?

ElonaFiorna - Sanctuary · December 2009

I spend a good portion of my free time helping my guildies, and so do my officers. However, people still leave saying they are not getting enough help. The simple fact is: You can't help everyone, there simply isn't enough time in the day.

People are always going to ask for help, and they are always going to quit because they feel they are not getting enough help. The real trick is finding those people that want to contribute, and are patient and grateful for the help they get. If you can pull that off, you'll have a strong faction long term. If you **** it up, things will go south in a hurry.

Veroeen - Sanctuary · December 2009

I agree with the topic starter.I started playing PWI a year ago and got stuck because there was so many nice ppl that wanted to help and be social. I then took a break and didn't start playing again until recently I rerolled as a wizard and directly noticed a difference helping ppl and social ppl had vanished instead it is more common to find selfish and unfriendly players.

The first faction I joined was cold, they didn't talk with me though I tried and they went quiet as soon as I said something. Getting help was out of the question so I dropped the faction and joined one who seemed nice with a good leader, but the leader turned out being **** and just dropped the faction talking **** and rejoined another faction. I am a helper and currently the strongest active player in my faction, those with higher lv are never active and our last director left us giving the director role to a player which haven't been active the latest month and did I mention that our new leader is a guy which just random got the post when our last decided to just drop us. Now we have one un active leader and one un active director and all other positions is on players which never been online.

I'm the only helper now, and the faction is slowly dying. I love to help ppl but I just cant take care of everything on my own. And myself I never get any help my faction members are all to low level and I only get boss quest after boss quest. I recently had Gouf, Shin and Dismisal Shade(something?) and I tried for almost 2 weeks to find someone that could help me. When I went to secret passage where many high level just stand for no reason at all they just ignored me when I asked over and over again watching my time quest lose more and more time. Yesterday I finally found 2 nice high levels which added me to their squad because they where helping a friend with Gouf and Shin. I still got dismal shade and now I received another boss quest but I have no clue how I will ever get them done since high levels seems so busy that they cant even lend a hand.

Helping people faction or not is a dying race, greed and selfishness seems to be the new era. Everything now days are about "BH/TT/whatever" no one cares to help with quests where you have to squad to have a chance to finish them. But there you get the problem no ONE helps. If ppl don't like helping and being social there are tons of games which can be played and isn't online and designed for squading and helping.

Saitada - Sanctuary · December 2009

I used to help people out all the time. I rarely do anymore simply because when I log this character on, I'm really only doing it to chat with people. Not so much to grind or level up or be helpful to anyone.

I'm more interested in working on my Blademaster and waiting for TB so I can try them out.

I still help people out, but not nearly as much as I used to.

~Saitada

Skimi - Dreamweaver · December 2009

i help to ppl with 4 normal quests if they ask
-timed quest on taurocs
-heaven fragments
-lvl 52 quest in silver pool where are that bunch of chained mobs
-and those flying minibosses at sanctuary
rest of quests they can solo or team up with random ppl who do same quest

bosses/minibosses
-any boss i can solo on veno or cleric i will do at any time
-bosses no1 can solo and need squad we leave for sunday and ignore all others days unless its rly good friend to me and i get tank whos up for it

tt
-for tt weps i will help at any time and will even find squad, then bunch of ppl help only 1 person and it takes 30 mins-2 hours to get wep, then move to next person
-for gears we do tt money runs for what is easy to get squad and ppl can sell mats and buy gears or ask them make their own squad and do runs with picking mats(subber>barb>cleric>dds by lvl) as many low lvl tt gears suck and can just be replaced with legendary or 3* items that are better than them. tt gears seems more like a show off for me...

With this i have do help, but i still have plenty of time left for myself and i don't think i should help more, people need learn to do stuff on their own too.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Veroeen - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree with the topic starter.I started playing PWI a year ago and got stuck because there was so many nice ppl that wanted to help and be social. I then took a break and didn't start playing again until recently I rerolled as a wizard and directly noticed a difference helping ppl and social ppl had vanished instead it is more common to find selfish and unfriendly players.

The first faction I joined was cold, they didn't talk with me though I tried and they went quiet as soon as I said something. Getting help was out of the question so I dropped the faction and joined one who seemed nice with a good leader, but the leader turned out being **** and just dropped the faction talking **** and rejoined another faction. I am a helper and currently the strongest active player in my faction, those with higher lv are never active and our last director left us giving the director role to a player which haven't been active the latest month and did I mention that our new leader is a guy which just random got the post when our last decided to just drop us. Now we have one un active leader and one un active director and all other positions is on players which never been online.

I'm the only helper now, and the faction is slowly dying. I love to help ppl but I just cant take care of everything on my own. And myself I never get any help my faction members are all to low level and I only get boss quest after boss quest. I recently had Gouf, Shin and Dismisal Shade(something?) and I tried for almost 2 weeks to find someone that could help me. When I went to secret passage where many high level just stand for no reason at all they just ignored me when I asked over and over again watching my time quest lose more and more time. Yesterday I finally found 2 nice high levels which added me to their squad because they where helping a friend with Gouf and Shin. I still got dismal shade and now I received another boss quest but I have no clue how I will ever get them done since high levels seems so busy that they cant even lend a hand.

Helping people faction or not is a dying race, greed and selfishness seems to be the new era. Everything now days are about "BH/TT/whatever" no one cares to help with quests where you have to squad to have a chance to finish them. But there you get the problem no ONE helps. If ppl don't like helping and being social there are tons of games which can be played and isn't online and designed for squading and helping.

I would help you. Np for me. BUT I also helped some other players and they added me to their friend list and now every day I have some request for help. I cannot help every day with 5 BH's 29-39 etc. I have my own BH,DQ,OHT, quest. Also I need to earn some money in game. So I can help but not every day.b:thanks

screwnickslol · December 2009

Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-wall of justification-

you still aren't grasping the basic premise behind the OP

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · December 2009

Boozin - Sanctuary wrote: »

@Skimi..

I could be wrong, but I didn't get the impression OP ment for high lvl's to help the lower ones in the fac at the expense of everything else. I think ofcourse the high lvl's in a fac need time to lvl themselves, do their own dailies etc, but from friends I talk to an work with around my own lvl from multiple fac's (hey, maybe it is just on sanc) that they are basically ignored from their leaders/directors etc..

Yup, exactly right. I'm talking things like 8x and even 9x in large factions that TW weekly not even having TT sets appropriate to their level because NO one in their faction will go with them.... and the only reason being that "they" don't "need" anything in that TT. And these are nice, friendly people who would happily help you if they could. I don't get how a faction can refuse to properly gear and help their members yet hurl themselves weekly at the best on the server

High levels do need to spend their own time earning money and leveling too, yes. But some people go overboard. I hear 9x saying they have "no time because they need to do their dailies". These dailies are "WQ, Cube, BH, CS, Quests, Rebirth and Frost"...... every day. And these 9x are convinced missing some of these will make them fall behind in level O_o I'm already level 87 and I basically do WQ and BH and the odd quest, that's it. And I'm still leveling away fine.
And as for making money....helping as a team works both ways. For example, you help me get mats for my set in a TT, then if you ask me to help you do same you can bet anything I'd be straight there.

I understand it's delicate and there will be people who take advantage of help, take and don't give, ect. But these people will always be there, you have to work around it, leave them be and concentrate on building a solid, friendly team with the decent members. Not helping anyone at all to avoid advantage taking is NOT a solution imo. Eventually the helpful members who like to work in a team leave and you either get left with the solo power levelers....or the faction falls apart.

Another thing is the pickiness factor. Such as only taking 80+ experienced to gamma, or 90+ experienced to frost, or 95+ experienced to delta or higher than necessary levels to TT's. Mainly because of an obsessive fear over having a bad member causing loss of exp and a failed run. That's something that causes slightly lower leveled players to feel extremely excluded and like they aren't a part of the group or good enough. On top of that it creates a sense of distrust among members. If you can't ask your faction to teach you instances...who can you ask?

Lastly, something that saddens me and i've seen in several factions now is people leaving, sometimes who have been there months and helped actively and no one really giving a damn. Basically it gets shrugged off with, "it happens" and "psh, they weren't getting their way and ragequit I guess".

@ Veroeen, you might want to consider a change of faction if that's the case

If you need any help on bosses feel free to whisper me ingame.

Skimi - Dreamweaver · December 2009

lol i know how it is, have done both. When started game and was in top then i couldn't waste my time on helping others to much or do things that don't give anything back. After making tons of characters and not being in top anymore i don't really care about being in there again now i mostly help others and don't get help much from other players, but i found a way how to still get help.
1. Ask for help in guild chat (sometimes none or only couple ppl reply)
2. If didn't got enough ppl then i pm classes i need, if they r busy with smth then i ask when they will be free. They usually say 1-2 hours or smth, need to ask many ppl.
3. Now can plan time and squad, if barb and cleric is what you need and one barb and one cleric have said they will be free in lets say 35 mins then you make a deal that in 35 mins they will help with that boss or quest or w/e you need.
4. In 35 mins remind them and invite them, they won't be able to escape b:chuckle they have told that they will be free to help so they will have to do it XD

Try that to make lazy ppl help you, always works for me XD

ElonaFiorna - Sanctuary · December 2009

Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol i know how it is, have done both. When started game and was in top then i couldn't waste my time on helping others to much or do things that don't give anything back. After making tons of characters and not being in top anymore i don't really care about being in there again now i mostly help others and don't get help much from other players, but i found a way how to still get help.
1. Ask for help in guild chat (sometimes none or only couple ppl reply)
2. If didn't got enough ppl then i pm classes i need, if they r busy with smth then i ask when they will be free. They usually say 1-2 hours or smth, need to ask many ppl.
3. Now can plan time and squad, if barb and cleric is what you need and one barb and one cleric have said they will be free in lets say 35 mins then you make a deal that in 35 mins they will help with that boss or quest or w/e you need.
4. In 35 mins remind them and invite them, they won't be able to escape b:chuckle they have told that they will be free to help so they will have to do it XD

Try that to make lazy ppl help you, always works for me XD

This is key right here. There are times I am busy and unable to help, but promise to help someone in say, an hour. Problem is, I'm both forgetful and easily distracted. Reminding me is the best thing to make sure I remember and come help. I'm sure this is often the case for other players as well.

Boozin - Sanctuary · December 2009

@OP...

wish there were more ppl with your mindset on my friends list b:sad

my fac is so small TW is outta the question, but at least the 8x+ leader/director do help when they can. I know a very small few 8x+ I can call on for help, but the last thing I wanna do is spam em every 20min or every 2 quests lookin for a meal ticket. I die a few times trying, then try to pull together a 5x squad of friends... if we still wipe, sometimes it cant be helped.. ya need a heavy hitter to lend you their weight.

But ya know for damn sure that if I can ever repay the favour to my 8x friends, even though its gonna take a while yet for me to get there, we all know what goes around comes around b:thanks

.and since it will eventually come full circle, I can only see this being the right way to build a strong faction in the long run.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · December 2009

Amusing story from my old faction. Large TW fac, 180+ players. One of the member asks if anyone would like to do an fb59, 4 spots. I counted exactly 18 "yes" responses. 4 spots got filled in seconds. The funny thing here was I was just about to ask the same thing since my alt also had an fb59.

But, instead I asked "could anyone help me kill some 6x bosses, my alt needs them"

Now, if someone has spare time for a random persons fb, they clearly have time to help with a boss or two for a member. My plan here was to see who exactly wanted to go to help and who just wanted exp/rep. To be fair incase anyone missed it, I asked 5 times over the next 5 mins.

2 responses.

So, I informed the faction the 6x bosses were inside valley of disaster, it was my alts wined and tabbed fb59 and promptly logged. The two who responded got a full fb59, the rest got nothing.

ChaoticTears - Harshlands · December 2009

To help stop some of the problems the OP talks about we have recently set up a Faction bank.
Any Faction TT runs in which mats are left over after people have taken what they need go into the bank.
The mats are then given to players as and when is needed

Ie: A Player got lvl 70 today, so we raided the bank to make her a TT70 weapon.

Vizula - Sanctuary · December 2009

@Op, I happen to agree with you. A faction should run like a team, but not at the expense of the higher lvls, not doing their own work. On the other hand, what's so hard about giving a helping hand? I've been in three factions, one I was about the only person that played, the other two, well, I still know some people from them, and we get along.

I always like to help, will whenever I am on, if anyone needs it. And right now, I'm solo. lol So it's a struggle sometimes to find help for my own stuff.

@Veroeen if I happen to be on, hit me up, any of those quests you're talking about I can easily do. If I'm on and not previously engaged, I'll help out.

@Boozin I'm in somewhat the same situation about having my higher lvl friends helping out, I only ask them if 1 I have no other choice. or 2 they offer the help first. And I always try to pay them back, and I will when I catch up. lol

I guess in this game at least, I've taken the motto of Pay it Forward. I know, it's corny and cliche, but if I'm helped by someone, I'll offer to help as well, and I'll return the favor in kind to someone else.

Hisuna - Sanctuary · December 2009

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would help you. Np for me. BUT I also helped some other players and they added me to their friend list and now every day I have some request for help. I cannot help every day with 5 BH's 29-39 etc. I have my own BH,DQ,OHT, quest. Also I need to earn some money in game. So I can help but not every day.b:thanks

Players like the ones you are referring to are as much of a problem as the players this thread is directed at. Many players will attempt to add you to their friend's list ONLY because you helped them and they hope to take advantage of that in the future. These types of players are causing people who used to be helpful to stop helping because they feel like they are just being used. Nobody wants to feel used. For this reason I never allow people onto my list that I help for 5 minutes on a boss or a bh run, who said basically nothing the entire time, then try to add me as they leave.

Boozin - Sanctuary wrote: »

@OP...

wish there were more ppl with your mindset on my friends list b:sad

my fac is so small TW is outta the question, but at least the 8x+ leader/director do help when they can. I know a very small few 8x+ I can call on for help, but the last thing I wanna do is spam em every 20min or every 2 quests lookin for a meal ticket. I die a few times trying, then try to pull together a 5x squad of friends... if we still wipe, sometimes it cant be helped.. ya need a heavy hitter to lend you their weight.

But ya know for damn sure that if I can ever repay the favour to my 8x friends, even though its gonna take a while yet for me to get there, we all know what goes around comes around b:thanks

.and since it will eventually come full circle, I can only see this being the right way to build a strong faction in the long run.

This is the attitude I like to see from someone that I help. It's not about what I'm going to get in return in the future, it's about influencing and developing a playerbase that cares about more than just themselves. I always refuse offers or gifts for helping people. Often I find that players are completely shocked to find that I would help them for no reason but to help. This is mostly true of lower levels, but everyone was low level at some point. I wonder how many high level players out there got where they are with zero help from anyone else. I'm sure there are a few, but not many. Yet those same players will refuse to turn around and help people in the same position they were 30 levels earlier, hiding behind excuses like "they should earn it themselves" or "helping them will only make them weak noobs".

MagicHamsta - Lost City · December 2009

X_x'
sowwy~
can't help everyone.
(>.<)'

although since me be a wizard...me can't really help that much. (me do help but...still need a cleric/barb so....ya...
b:sweat

so what me do is...try to help them help themselves.
(>.<)'
alot of people try to ask for.....random stuff like.....fly across the map and help me kill....30 jaden quinfu or something.
-.-'

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · December 2009

Hisuna - Sanctuary wrote: »

Players like the ones you are referring to are as much of a problem as the players this thread is directed at. Many players will attempt to add you to their friend's list ONLY because you helped them and they hope to take advantage of that in the future. These types of players are causing people who used to be helpful to stop helping because they feel like they are just being used. Nobody wants to feel used. For this reason I never allow people onto my list that I help for 5 minutes on a boss or a bh run, who said basically nothing the entire time, then try to add me as they leave.

Completely agree with that. Too many players take full advantage of help, adding you to their friend list purely to make use of them as help slaves. And because of that people tend to become wary and won't add or help anyone whatsoever.

My approach to it is to help anyone who needs help. If they start seriously taking advantage and making outrageous requests...they get ignored and even removed from my list. If they genuinely need help I do anything I can in my power to help. I don't deny quests either. Certain phy mobs quests can be a nightmare for robes, and certain densely packed magic mob quests can be a nightmare for a BM/Barb, I try to keep that in mind, if a quest is rather tough I help.

But again, just to stress, I'm not only talking about high levels helping low levels. I'm talking about same-levels helping and working with each other too. Taking the time to teach instances and being inclusive on instance runs even if someone is a little below-level. No one likes to feel left out and no one can learn a rb or dungeon or farm a full TT set completely on their own, as willing as they may be to go and try.

Hisuna - Sanctuary · December 2009

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Completely agree with that. Too many players take full advantage of help, adding you to their friend list purely to make use of them as help slaves. And because of that people tend to become wary and won't add or help anyone whatsoever.

My approach to it is to help anyone who needs help. If they start seriously taking advantage and making outrageous requests...they get ignored and even removed from my list. If they genuinely need help I do anything I can in my power to help. I don't deny quests either. Certain phy mobs quests can be a nightmare for robes, and certain densely packed magic mob quests can be a nightmare for a BM/Barb, I try to keep that in mind, if a quest is rather tough I help.

But again, just to stress, I'm not only talking about high levels helping low levels. I'm talking about same-levels helping and working with each other too. Taking the time to teach instances and being inclusive on instance runs even if someone is a little below-level. No one likes to feel left out and no one can learn a rb or dungeon or farm a full TT set completely on their own, as willing as they may be to go and try.

It's a good approach, I agree with it. Like you I always do what I can to help, and I do my best to be as understanding as possible. This attitude has led many people to believe that I am a pushover, however, and causes them to throw fury fits when I call them on their selfishness. I believe the part of my signature below the image is the best way I could say it.

Taranta - Dreamweaver · December 2009

I help a lot, mainly out of boredom. Questing at this point just doesn't hold my interest, so I go help anyone who needs it.

Might be why I'm leveling so slowly...

For the most part, I help anyone who needs it, unless they're asking for free TT mats. I know how long this game can be without someone willing to help, and luckily, I joined a helping faction so nobody really worries about it too much. If you need help, ask me, even if it seems rediculous. I've run tt 2-x's, 3-x's simply because people needed another veno to go with them. However, if somebody asks me for help, I feel it's within reason that I can ask them for the same. But...I'm a weird person, so that might explain that.

Vizula - Sanctuary · December 2009

@Hisuna and DarkSeph, I happen to agree with both of you. I like to help, and will whenever I can. For my own stuff, I try to do it on my own, or with a similar lvl squad, if I can't then and only then do I even say something to my friends who are all higher lvl than I am. And I don't ask for their help, but will gladly take it and thank them over and over again if they offer it.

I've helped out lower lvls before, and had people friend me only to find that they ask over and over again for help with the most basic things. Most of the time, I will help, but if they continuously ask for help, I say find someone in the area and squad with them. I can't do your quest for you.

Then they throw a fit and remove me from friends list. lol

When I was in a faction and we had similar lvl people in it, we'd all get together and find out what quests mobs someone needed, then we'd all go after them. I was quite happy to help out even lower lvl people with their quests.

As for the larger instances? Well let's put it this way, I'm 66. I've done TT twice before hitting 60 and once after. So, I'd offer help, but wouldn't be that knowledgeable about it.

TigerLily - Lost City · December 2009

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Maybe it's just on sanctuary but is it just me or is helping each other becoming something very rare in factions lately? I see more and more players from large factions in barely refined equips far below their level....and anytime I ask them about this the response is usually that "they can't afford better and their faction never takes them on TT runs".

Now, maybe I'm wrong on this but isn't a faction supposed to be like a team? I see these large factions week after week hurling themselves at the main landowners meaninglessly and losing, and when you think of the mass of 8x-9x in 7x equips trying to hold off an army of 9x-10x cash shoppers it's little wonder why. Shouldn't a faction make it a goal to have their members properly equipped before sending them into a TW? I mean, as long as they're willing to work for it and help others too in whatever way they can. As well as making the faction stronger, it'll make players more loyal, and form a stronger bond between members.

Also, the best leveling methods are instances like frost/rebirth/whatever, but from experience in a number of factions and discussing with a lot of players, it seems these tend to be run only among a small select group with exp/gear/high level in a faction, with the rest being expected to sort out their own way. And again, if you want to TW sending in 7x-9x against pure 9-10x is just silly. A portion of your faction grows and the rest just linger.

Before anyone claims I'm just QQ'ing that no one does everything for you, I'm probably one of the few ppl who would be more than happy to run TT's and instances and helping all day purely for someone else's benefit. I'm just curious what happened to the teamwork in my opinion working together with others is part of the fun in the game

I think people in guilds should stop relying on other to "take them" to HH so they get gear. If you're 89-90 and need mats, LEARN to make a party, go with others that also needs it and learn to share the drops.

Assuming that lvl 95-100+ should run lowbie HH and donate charity mats just b/c someone is in the same guild is just dumb. People really need to learn to take initiatives and not depend on others all the time.

If you're loyal to a guild, help others get mats, are social and and make friends you will also get help back when you need 90 stuff. But people tend not help at all, never talk in guild chatt unless they need stuff and suddenly they're lvl 89-90 and starts QQ-ing when no one wants to come 2-3 when they need antennas or w/e.

You get the help you deserve most of the time.

Guilds with many fixed teams for HH/Frost/Rebirth really sucks tho because so many people get excluded b:angry.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · December 2009

Okay here comes my 2 cents.

I believe everyone should learn how to stand on their own two feet.

Example:

BH runs

A couple things I take into consideration

1.) Have they tried to get a party together to run their bh? (Its always amusing when someone says they have when you are there trying to find squad yourself and you see folks spamming general chat looking for members for the seeking faction members bh b:chuckle)
2.) Does this person do this everyday?

Why?

Its important for someone to learn how to assemble/find a party on their own.

It is also important to make sure said person isn't just using others for an easy ride.

Quests: I don't think anyone has asked for help for a quest other then for information or 20x3's. Timed quests maybe.

Boss's: Let faction member know to try the boss spawn (get in a random squad). If we(faction) have time latter and we have the necessary members we can go then.

TT's: We try to run all TT's with faction members only. It just works out better this way. Its all about having the necessary components to get it going. We have an established TT bank and basically everyone in faction is willing to help out others in this area regardless. Most of the time we just give whatever that faction member needs and rest goes into TT bank. A member always has to go on runs to get some of the mats they need for whatever equipment themselves. The rest we can pull from TT bank.

So to try and sum up my wall of text:

I like to help when I can, when its needed, and just for fun.

I work and have long commute. So my play time can be restricted. Getting my daily's done is nice, cs, wq, bh. BH is my priority since i have the most fun.

On something kinda opposite is when playing my alt (cleric lvl 61) I find it annoying when party members 'have' to bring a 'high' level along. Is it just me? I just don't like to waste peoples time when I am fully capable of doing it myself with same level group.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · December 2009

If you're loyal to a guild, help others get mats, are social and and make friends you will also get help back when you need 90 stuff. But people tend not help at all, never talk in guild chatt unless they need stuff and suddenly they're lvl 89-90 and starts QQ-ing when no one wants to come 2-3 when they need antennas or w/e

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

TT's: We try to run all TT's with faction members only. It just works out better this way. Its all about having the necessary components to get it going. We have an established TT bank and basically everyone in faction is willing to help out others in this area regardless. Most of the time we just give whatever that faction member needs and rest goes into TT bank. A member always has to go on runs to get some of the mats they need for whatever equipment themselves. The rest we can pull from TT bank.

That's the way things should be run. If you want mats, at least be willing to go on that TT yourself too, and help others if you can when they need their mats. That way you benefit, and your faction mates benefit and your faction grows stronger as a whole.

Guys, i'm not talking about help as in "I sit on my **** and you go out and fill up the TT bank for me to take my pick" or... "I sit on my **** until I need a mat and suddenly demand everyone jumps up to help me get it" I'm talking about every faction member working as a team to help each other.

Standing on your own two feet is great.... to an extent. But a team of people will always be stronger than a bunch of independent people working alone. That's why in TW's everyone is divided into squads rather than just hurling the entire 80 out as individuals and telling them "go kill ppl and break their crystal kthxbai"

Obviously you aren't in a faction like the ones I'm talking about (which is good) so it might be hard to understand, but starting a party from thin air when everyone either ignores it or leaves it to someone else is impossible. I've lost counts of the number of TT and boss parties I've joined in to help with in past factions....that get disbanded an hour later after failing to even form half a squad. Or the number of parties I've tried to start and had to give up on after maybe receiving a single response.

And that's basically my issue. People uninterested in being a part of a faction or a team and work purely for themselves. The attitude being "I got this far, why can't they?" They have no real interest in how the faction develops...and in fact if the faction started failing would leave it at a moments notice for a better and more powerful one.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Boss's: Let faction member know to try the boss spawn (get in a random squad).

Fatal flaw. Bosses like Krimson, Manta and whatever NEED help. So the "random squad" would have to be another person who needs the boss killing it with friends/faction who has room. Only problem is, if everyone adopts your way of thinking, you get 10 random lowbies hanging around a boss whos factions have all basically "left it to someone else" and told them to find their own squad.

IMO it's kinda giving your faction a bad name when your own members are seen begging other faction groups to let them join their squad for boss hunts. People think "wow, must be a pretty unhelpful/inactive faction that guy's in"

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear · December 2009

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

IMO it's kinda giving your faction a bad name when your own members are seen begging other faction groups to let them join their squad for boss hunts. People think "wow, must be a pretty unhelpful/inactive faction that guy's in"

Well I guess here we disagree. I don't see it as begging. Heck when I have black hole to kill in oht for my daily and I see a squad I ask if there is room for me. I don't think they look at my faction and think "damn his faction must suck he has to kill this boss all by himself"

And if a member wants to get some boss's out of the way asap I believe going to the spawn point is your best option.

Most currently with my alt that's what I did. I was able to get a few boss' done. And when I got tired of sitting for 30 minutes at Jewel, I asked in faction chat if I could get help with a boss run (jewel; virridiss; culti boss's) ending it with my fb(reward XD).

And if our faction is killing boss's we will invite the randoms there and leave squad and DD/heal from outside squad. b:victory

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · December 2009

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well I guess here we disagree. I don't see it as begging. Heck when I have black hole to kill in oht for my daily and I see a squad I ask if there is room for me. I don't think they look at my faction and think "damn his faction must suck he has to kill this boss all by himself"

And if a member wants to get some boss's out of the way asap I believe going to the spawn point is your best option.

Most currently with my alt that's what I did. I was able to get a few boss' done. And when I got tired of sitting for 30 minutes at Jewel, I asked in faction chat if I could get help with a boss run (jewel; virridiss; culti boss's) ending it with my fb(reward XD).

And if our faction is killing boss's we will invite the randoms there and leave squad and DD/heal from outside squad. b:victory

Dailies aren't like Krimson. I always do BH's in random squads, since a large number of players in the same level range need the daily too and it's quite manageable with same level players. If I do find a squad though, I make a point of asking in faction chat "anyone need suchandsuch in BHwhatever?"

I guess, nothing wrong with checking before asking. In your case though if you were unable to find a squad your faction would help you, right? What I meant was factions refusing to help entirely and leaving their members to scrounge up their own squad for boss hunts.

eatwithspoons · December 2009

I can understand why higher level guildies wouldn't always jump at the opportunity to help a lowbie in their guild. You want to make sure this lowbie actually has some skill when they reach you level.

For me, joining a guild usually happens in two ways:

-One, you join when the game starts, that way everyone starts around the same level, gets used to helping each other, and doesn't have to worry as much about stragglers.

-Two, you reroll a new character and try to find a guild around the same level, so it is not an inconvenience for them to play with you in FBs or the like.

There's one thing that has always puzzled me a bit, "zerg" recruiting over world chat. I know some guilds look for only high levels for a specific purpose, but I've seen guilds that just invite anyone to increase their size, this seems to be the most common time that people get the "nowai" response when asking for help. You just joined a guild and you're low level, I can't be expected to drag you through content unless you've proven your worth.

This is all just IMHO, just contributing to the discussionb:victory

screwnickslol · December 2009

eatwithspoons wrote: »

I can understand why higher level guildies wouldn't always jump at the opportunity to help a lowbie in their guild. You want to make sure this lowbie actually has some skill when they reach you level.

For me, joining a guild usually happens in two ways:

-One, you join when the game starts, that way everyone starts around the same level, gets used to helping each other, and doesn't have to worry as much about stragglers.

-Two, you reroll a new character and try to find a guild around the same level, so it is not an inconvenience for them to play with you in FBs or the like.

There's one thing that has always puzzled me a bit, "zerg" recruiting over world chat. I know some guilds look for only high levels for a specific purpose, but I've seen guilds that just invite anyone to increase their size, this seems to be the most common time that people get the "nowai" response when asking for help. You just joined a guild and you're low level, I can't be expected to drag you through content unless you've proven your worth.

This is all just IMHO, just contributing to the discussionb:victory

methinks spoons has been around for a while, and has alot of experience with guilds in MMOs...

quoted for righteous truth

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