Always poor because of buying new skills.

Lostin - Heavens Tear

Ok so i'm a venomancer of course and i'm always poor because i'm busy trying to max my grinding spells

Can someone tell me which skills to max early and which to max late?
Thanks.b:thanks

axt57

Upgrading skills:

Now:
Venomous scarab
Ironwood scarab
Pet heal
Metabolic boost
Natures grace
Summer sprint
Wood mastery

Later:
Lucky scarab
Amp damage
Bramble
Foxform
Melee Mastery
Parasitic Nova
Noxious gas
Purge

Don't bother:
Blazing scarab
Frost scarab
Tame beast
Revive pet (might be useful sometimes, but don't go overboard on this)

Chobsi - Heavens Tear

axt57 wrote: »

Upgrading skills:

Now:
Venomous scarab
Ironwood scarab
Pet heal
Metabolic boost
Natures grace
Summer sprint
Wood mastery

Later:
Lucky scarab
Amp damage. Yeah don't max amp. You want bosses to take more damage.
Bramble. Oh don't help barbs tank. Or get bramble hood. Your most useful pk/duel skill
Foxform
Melee Mastery
Parasitic Nova
Noxious gas
Purge

Don't bother:
Blazing scarab
Frost scarab
Tame beast
Revive pet (might be useful sometimes, but don't go overboard on this)

especially with double drops lately you shouldn't have a problem leveling skills purely off dq drops.

LongWushi - Heavens Tear

I disagree with your list.

Max Now:
Ironwood
Venomous Scarab
Noxious Gas
Lucky Scarab
Wood Mastery
Bramble Guard
Meta Boost
Nature's Grace
Summer Sprint
Pet Heal
Fox Form
Amplify Damage
Purge

Max Later:
Blazing Scarab
Frost Scarab
Parasitic Nova
Pet Revive
Soul Degeneration
Fox Wallop
Befuddling Mist
Stunning Blow
Leech
Consume Spirit
Malefic Crush
Melee Mastery


There is no such thing as never maxing out a skill. You can max all of them out at a later date. I have done this on my veno. Aside from the pet skills, there are only four skills I have to max out because I do not have the money to do so. By the time you hit L90 you will have SP out the wahzoo! A couple million in coins will max out several skills.

axt57

You need to consider the topic in hand. Did you see the "poor" in the title? You are saying she needs to max 13 skills right now, when she clearly is short on money.

Furthermore, Amplify damage, bramble, purge - all far more useful later on when you are in squads and the bosses are a lot tougher. You do not need them right now if you are short on cash; they are not essentail skills at lvl60.

Noxious gas - this is better maxed when you are confident with your agro hold abilities. As a veno you are not ment to AoE a lot anyway, so if you're short on cash getting this maxed is a bad idea.

And yes, do not bother with blazing and frost. Instead use your SP for Genie. Coin for something else.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

axt57 wrote: »

You need to consider the topic in hand. Did you see the "poor" in the title? You are saying she needs to max 13 skills right now, when she clearly is short on money.

Furthermore, Amplify damage, bramble, purge - all far more useful later on when you are in squads and the bosses are a lot tougher. You do not need them right now if you are short on cash; they are not essentail skills at lvl60.

Noxious gas - this is better maxed when you are confident with your agro hold abilities. As a veno you are not ment to AoE a lot anyway, so if you're short on cash getting this maxed is a bad idea.

I did consider it thoroughly. I didn't max out Meta Boost or Grace until in my 70s because I had considered them pointless skills. Then I started grinding hardcore and I ate through pots too fast and didn't want to buy more pots.

Futhermore cake, Amplify Damage, Bramble Guard, and Purge will all become effective now as she is L60. She will start running more and more TTs the higher her level become. When she maxes out Bramble Guard she gets Bramble Hood, which is needed in surviving rushes, pulling in TT2-#, and surviving in general when something goes awry. Amp will more readily get a veno into a TT squad as well. If you aren't Amping you're next to useless. I would easily take another Veno over one who didn't have a good Amp and uses it often.

The fact that Nox is an AoE skill has little to do with. The skills I listed to be maxed are there because 1. they hit hard, 2. some are good in pvp instances, and 3. they can save your life or a squad member's life. I maxed Blazing before I maxed Ironwood. Of course, then I though Ironwood was pretty worthless because it didn't seem to hit hard. Once I maxed it out I was impressed with the damage it dealt. Blazing and Nox are good for their DoTs when you're stuck soloing a boss/mini-boss.


And when I say "now," I mean as the money and SP become available. I would max out my Parasitic Nova right now, except to get the next three levels for it will cost me 2.4m in coin. I'm not worried about SP since I have over 12m in SP.

High_Lord - Heavens Tear

pffff poor with this mega drop rate? igo grind even if its stopped now you can still grind enough for another skill in like a half hour

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Don't max blazing scarab? Are you people mad? :O

Why max or level melee mastery as an arcane venomancer? (I'm assuming she is one)
~.~

Skill levels levelling up with a typical arcane build shouldn't matter much either. I just focused on the few starter skills, got the others as I levelled up then started maxing them around level 70+.

Lostin - Heavens Tear

Haha..Im a hybrid actually

@High_Lord
I farm all day....

So I should max Blazing?

Chobsi - Heavens Tear

LongWushi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I disagree with your list.

Max Now:
Ironwood
Venomous Scarab
Noxious Gas
Lucky Scarab
Wood Mastery
Bramble Guard
Meta Boost
Nature's Grace
Summer Sprint
Pet Heal
Fox Form
Amplify Damage
Purge

In my opinion purge doesnt need to be maxed as soon as possible as you dont use it on a daily basis on a pve server.
Everything else I agree with except you should max skills depending on you. in order of importance to you. I.E. Before I had a few maxed skills I leveled them in this order (my opinion Im not saying this is best)
Pet heal
Ironwood
Venomous
Wood Mastery
Nature's Grace
Lucky Scarab ( I like this but damn is it MP draining)
Amp Damage
Bramble
Noxious
Metabolic Boost
Summer Sprint

tweakz

LongWushi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I disagree with your list.

Max Now:
Ironwood
Venomous Scarab
Noxious Gas
Lucky Scarab
Wood Mastery
Bramble Guard
Meta Boost
Nature's Grace
Summer Sprint
Pet Heal
Fox Form
Amplify Damage
Purge

Max Later:
Blazing Scarab
Frost Scarab
Parasitic Nova
Pet Revive
Soul Degeneration
Fox Wallop
Befuddling Mist
Stunning Blow
Leech
Consume Spirit
Malefic Crush
Melee Mastery


There is no such thing as never maxing out a skill. You can max all of them out at a later date. I have done this on my veno. Aside from the pet skills, there are only four skills I have to max out because I do not have the money to do so. By the time you hit L90 you will have SP out the wahzoo! A couple million in coins will max out several skills.

I disagree also, but L90 did not give me SP out the wahzoo! At 93, I was paying 1.5m in coins per skill alone on top of cost of book.

Shifong - Heavens Tear

At level 60. You have to focus on the following skills that make you USEFUL in squads. So my advise is to go with those first, which are:

Bramble guard 10 => Bramble hood
Amplify Damage
Lending Hand

As for nuke skills, venomous scarab and ironwood scarab is all you have to max for now. Noxious and lucky scarab are nice ones, but can be expensive. So if that's too much leave them be for now and don't max them yet. Also blazing can be kept at level 1 and you can just use it to build up chi for low mp costs.

Wood mastery should be maxed without question. Melee mastery doesn't have to be maxed yet. Even if you're hybrid.

Metalic Boost and Nature Grace in combination with soul transfusion can make life a lot easier for you. But it's not a must to have them in order to play your character. It's advised to get some levels in them at least though.

I wouldn't bother much on fox form skills. You only need fox form to use the skill amplify damage basically.

Lostin - Heavens Tear

Shifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At level 60. You have to focus on the following skills that make you USEFUL in squads. So my advise is to go with those first, which are:

Bramble guard 10 => Bramble hood
Amplify Damage
Lending Hand

As for nuke skills, venomous scarab and ironwood scarab is all you have to max for now. Noxious and lucky scarab are nice ones, but can be expensive. So if that's too much leave them be for now and don't max them yet. Also blazing can be kept at level 1 and you can just use it to build up chi for low mp costs.

Wood mastery should be maxed without question. Melee mastery doesn't have to be maxed yet. Even if you're hybrid.

Metalic Boost and Nature Grace in combination with soul transfusion can make life a lot easier for you. But it's not a must to have them in order to play your character. It's advised to get some levels in them at least though.

I wouldn't bother much on fox form skills. You only need fox form to use the skill amplify damage basically.

Simple..That made my life easier b:victory

Chobsi - Heavens Tear

Shifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At level 60. You have to focus on the following skills that make you USEFUL in squads. So my advise is to go with those first, which are:

Bramble guard 10 => Bramble hood
Amplify Damage
Lending Hand

As for nuke skills, venomous scarab and ironwood scarab is all you have to max for now. Noxious and lucky scarab are nice ones, but can be expensive. So if that's too much leave them be for now and don't max them yet. Also blazing can be kept at level 1 and you can just use it to build up chi for low mp costs.

Wood mastery should be maxed without question. Melee mastery doesn't have to be maxed yet. Even if you're hybrid.

Metalic Boost and Nature Grace in combination with soul transfusion can make life a lot easier for you. But it's not a must to have them in order to play your character. It's advised to get some levels in them at least though.

I wouldn't bother much on fox form skills. You only need fox form to use the skill amplify damage basically.

I'm guessing you forgot to mention this but pet heal is useful in groups and grinding. b:surrender

Solandri - Heavens Tear

I would suggest the following changes to people's recommendations:

Prioritize leech, especially since you run a hybrid build. You don't have to max it, but get it high enough that it gives you a good chunk of hp back. It will let you easily survive several AOEs you'll encounter now or soon (e.g. boss rooms in cube, Feng in TT 2-*).

Drop the priority on wood mastery. It only increases wood damage 2% each time you level it (and if it works like I suspect in the damage equation, the actual benefit is even less). Leveling up a damage skill typically increases the damage about 10%. So if you have to choose between a damage skill and wood mastery, you get far more benefit from leveling the damage skill. Wood mastery's benefit is that it affects all your DD spells. But to counter a 10% increase in spell damage, you need to use 5+ DD spells regularly for wood mastery to warrant a higher priority.

If you don't PvP, a higher level purge is only needed against self-buffing bosses. I don't think you'll encounter one until Cosmo in TT 2-2.

Absolutely keep tame at level 1. It can be used to pull singles, and the level 1 version uses the least mana.

I recommend at least one level of Stunning Blow. You need one level to get Leech, and it's really nice to have a 100% reliable way to stop running mobs. In particular, if you use it at the start on mobs which like to run (archers, some casters), most of them will not run when it wears off.

Befuddling mist actually works really nice in fox form in AOE situations. You won't need it at 60, but in the high 70s when you start to do Forgotten Frostlands, it's really nice.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Hmmm. I think I agree with deprioritising wood mastery - it's a nice boost early on, but it gets stupidly expensive.

Bramble is only useful if you're the only veno present. You'll want to max it eventually, but if something more important (ironwood, say) is available, get the other thing first.

Blazing... it's actually pretty nice damage for not much mp. If you find you're often fighting two or more things at once then you might want to buy this up. If you fight only single targets then they probably die before blazing wears off, and I'd not worry about it.
If you're hurting for coins, dump it.

The self-heals I also advise stopping at around level 4-6 or so. They're too slow to save you in an emergency, and cycle fast enough that a 40% heal should be enough for now. By all means buy them, they're great! But buy ironwood first

Amp damage you really should max out once you start doing things in groups. Mid 60s at the latest. About the only exception to that is if you are usually the third veno in a squad - two veno's can keep a boss continually armed if they co-ordinate. The only problem is that it's hard to see it working.

The real 'duffer' skills that there's almost no point to at all are ice-scarab, and crush-vigor. If you commonly have a herc doing the tanking (yours or someone elses) then befuddle is also useless. (The hrcs 'strong' buff reduces their evasion to 0)

I'm also not a huge fan of myriad. Put that in the 'useful much much later' category.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm also not a huge fan of myriad. Put that in the 'useful much much later' category.

Myriad Rainbow is awesome if you're solo spam-healing a boss. It's instant cast so you can easily squeeze it in between heals. Usually at least one of the DOTs lands, so you're getting an extra 4500 damage in 9 sec to shorten the fight. Even better if the armor break lands. The only drawback is that it sucks 800 mana per use. But you can fix that with genie heals and all those hp pots you probably don't use.

Course it costs 1 mil spirit, 20 apoc pages, and 1.05 mil in ink to get.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

You're right and I'm an idiot - I meant its predecessor Parasite Nova.

High_Lord - Heavens Tear

Lostin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Haha..Im a hybrid actually

@High_Lord
I farm all day....

So I should max Blazing?

...then how are you poor if you grind all day...you should be able to grind at least 100-200k per hour maybe 50-100 at your level but still...blah dont listen to me lol

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Well, my problem was that the mobs tended to drop xp at least as often as cash So whilst, yeah, you grind out the DQ items for cash, by the time you've saved up enough for a skill you've levelled up a couple of times and a load MORE skills became available.

I only eventually ran out of spirit around level 70, after I got a lucky cube run with an ecstacy card.

Either way, you've got to prioritise somehow in the mid levels.

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear

The self-heals I also advise stopping at around level 4-6 or so. They're too slow to save you in an emergency, and cycle fast enough that a 40% heal should be enough for now. By all means buy them, they're great! But buy ironwood first

I disagree. The healing spells aren't meant to be used in emergencies. You use them in between fights to replenish your hp/mp. They have no cost outside of the money/spirit you pay to level them and the time it takes to channel and cast them. You complain about being too poor. Well, these two skills help with that. They're there to save you money. You can grind more efficiently since you don't need to use as many pots or meditate as much, if ever. The sooner you get them and level them, the more money you save in the long run.

I agree with Shifong. You don't need to max Lucky and Noxious immediately. I'd save them for when you have spare coins.

Frost, Blazing, and Tame Pet are all personal calls. I think Frost scarab isn't worth leveling, but if you like it, go for it. I use Blazing on bosses to build chi so I figured since it was getting so much use, I might as well level it to get the extra damage. Tame pet does get a huge increase in mp usage as you level it, but it also increases the range of the skill. There are some instances where that extra range comes in handy. Mine's still at level 1 though.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

IMO, lucky scarab should not be on the list of "max asap" especially when you're poor. It costs bucket loads of cash, and doesnt deal extreme damage. Nox gas is good to max for gamma/herc aoe grind. (then again, I stole aggro from herc way more frequently after I maxed it)

Fire/frost scarabs are pretty useless imo. Then again, Im pretty lazy, and most of the time only use spark/iron/venom combo or spam heal pet.

Tame pet is for those people who "tame pets". Your call there.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fire/frost scarabs are pretty useless imo.
.

Those two skills have the best damage/MP ratio of any skill... and frost with frostbite is our highest damage skill (assuming it will run the duration of the DOT).

As Sol tested, Blazing even stacks, so you actualy deal quite a bit of damage over 45 secs. First 15 secs, from one scarab, 15-30, from 2 stacked, 30-45second from the second.

Granted they are not grinding skills, since they do not AOE, they take virtualy no advantage of criticals, since they DOT is a static number, and they have to run the duration for them to reach their potential. But they are far from useless.

Brael - Dreamweaver

The essentials are venomous scarab, ironwood scarab, bramblehood (and guard to get it, but it's not essential until you can use hood at 60), heal pet, summers sprint, lending hand (useless, but you don't want to create a bad impression of yourself from lacking it when someone asks for a spark), soul transfusion, nature's grace, metabolic boost, amplify damage.


Atleast that's what I think is essential. Anything else, beyond level 1 is just extra.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Those two skills have the best damage/MP ratio of any skill... and frost with frostbite is our highest damage skill (assuming it will run the duration of the DOT).

As Sol tested, Blazing even stacks, so you actualy deal quite a bit of damage over 45 secs. First 15 secs, from one scarab, 15-30, from 2 stacked, 30-45second from the second.

Granted they are not grinding skills, since they do not AOE, they take virtualy no advantage of criticals, since they DOT is a static number, and they have to run the duration for them to reach their potential. But they are far from useless.

One cast of Blazing is more damage than one cast of Venomous, but the mob has to live until blazing ends. The damage increase of substituting in blazing for an occasional venomous if you get full damage from blazing, is less than substituting in lucky scarab on occasion. It's certainly helpful, but it's not a must have. It also needs to stay leveled up. That's a lot of additional spirit/coin for maybe a 5% increase to damage output.

The problem with frost scarab is the spark cost, you have to take into account the damage lost from spark eruption to use frost. It makes frost pretty low, not to mention it's not a guarantee of the damage which lowers the average as well. When looking at spell damage you need to take chi into account. It's important to remember that for blazing too, the dot damage is fixed. A spark will only boost the initial damage portion of blazing, and amplify won't boost the dot portion either. The only thing that will is a fire resist debuff, and it must be applied before you cast blazing. That eventually hurts how useful blazing is.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As Sol tested, Blazing even stacks, so you actualy deal quite a bit of damage over 45 secs. First 15 secs, from one scarab, 15-30, from 2 stacked, 30-45second from the second.

That changes things. Never knew someone tested it. Yea... I dont like to read much.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

That changes things. Never knew someone tested it. Yea... I dont like to read much.

I did not know they stacked until 2-3 days ago.... so you are not alone. Aparently its a graphics bug where the icon will go away from teh first blaze, but the second one will still be doing damage.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=520072

@Brael. I use the genie skill to get my sparks quickly when needed, so I never took spark cost into account. But I can see your point.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

to me:
max asap
venomous scarab
ironwood scarab
bramble guard->bramble hood
metabolic boost
natures grace
wood mastery
amplify damage
purge
and maybe lending hand (i rarely find barbs who ask for it oddly)

ones you can pace
noxious gas
lucky scarab
parasitic nova
summer sprint
fox form (FF and sprint have huge gaps in between level ups anyways)

ones you can ignore
any move that isnt purge or amplify damage on the fox tree
blazing scarab (doesnt really hold its weigh because of a long **** cool down)
frost scarab (isnt worth the spark)

Brael - Dreamweaver

I mostly agree with your list, though I disagree with the reasons for some of the undesirable ones. The only ones I would argue are Purge which doesn't really need leveled past 1 until you're doing 2-2 or something else where a mob buffs itself often and wood mastery. Wood mastery is pretty expensive, at 60 maybe taking it to level 3-4 isn't too bad, but the higher you go the lower the gain is for the higher the cost. For example, assuming it actually gives 2% per level, going from level 9 to 10 takes you from 118% to 120% damage, an increase of 1.69%. In reality though it's probably lower as Solandri's formula seems to be accurate. That same coin/spirit would be better off spent elsewhere.

When it comes to Lending Hand, it's relatively cheap. I think it's good to buy just to have it. It creates a bad impression if someone asks you to give them a spark and you say you don't have the skill. That's the only reason I see for even training it. Based off of my own history with the skill, I would never recommend someone buy it for it being useful.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

purge is damn important O_-; especially in endgame and pvp scenes, you want it at a 30s cooldown not forever and a year. as for wood mastery, passives to me, are like the most important skills in game for any class. it could make the difference in a kill or having to waste that extra mp for a tiny shred of mob hp.

Brael - Dreamweaver

A level 60 isn't endgame though. Purge at level 1 is entirely sufficient for that level. PvP I can't comment on, but seeing as how the person is on a PvE server I don't think that's a big reason to recommend leveling purge at that point.

Using a level 60, lets say the poster already has wood mastery 7, wood mastery 8 is at level 64. That's an increase of 1.75% nuke damage output (at best) for 160k coin and 118k spirit. I'm not taking into account that the pet is providing damage too (reducing the overall gain from wood mastery) or that wood mastery is being considered to give a bigger increase than it does. For that same 160k coin/118k spirit, the person could get level 8 of metabolic boost and level 7 of nature's grace. It's a pretty small return. Not as small as some other things like Lucky Scarab are, but still small.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Oh, I completely agree that the self heals are great for saving money.

But I only recently levelled them both to 7, and I basically never use pots. Keeping them around 40% is good enough for now.