Take a Step Back

Quilue - Sanctuary

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

How do you not see that that is not the case? First.. at minimum it costs 5 gold to get an iron hammer to open a coin box that drops 1 million coin (that works out to 200k per gold). Unless I have missed something in the game, I don't see anything in the game that costs 1 gold to open and gets you 1 million coins. I see 1 object that costs 5 gold to open that nets you 1 million coins.. thus by your logic the developers are suggesting a price value of 200k per gold.

Care to try again?

~Saitada

that was her example, that what if iron hammers costed 1 gold instead of 5. but now sellers pretty much won't go below 200k because it doesn't make sense for them to. the bottom limit of gold is no longer dependent on the buyers' choice because either these gold are going for 200k+ each, or the sellers open the coin boxes themselves. the developers didn't suggest a price value of 200k per gold, they suggested a minimum of 200k per gold. if coin boxes were rare you might have an argument, but they're so damn common that anyone can get them, thus destroying any incentive to sell gold below 200k. you can choose not to buy, but that's not going to make the gold price any lower than 200k. your original argument was that buyers control the price of gold, and with coin boxes that is not entirely true. buyers can only push the price of gold up, but it won't fall below 200k.

Care to try again? Or will you continue to claim current prices for gold of 500k are the developers fault, when it is the players setting the prices by buying and selling? Remember, the developers designed the game to make money for themselves, so they ARE going to make things to put in the game that will encourage addicts with no control over their spending, to spend, that is the nature of Free2Play games, but to say it is the developers fault for the player set price of gold in the auction house, is utterly and fantastically stupid.

If you want to keep arguing that, then to be perfectly honest with you, your an idiot, should not be allowed near a computer, and should go tell your mommy to slap the **** out of you for being stupid.

hey, i never claimed any of the above. Take a Step Back. And relax a bit. Are you upset? yes? ok that is alright, but too let your anger control you is not. Take a deep breath. Slowly. Now another. Yes, slowly. Keep doing this until your blood preasure drops to a more reasonable and healthier level.

Saitada - Sanctuary

*sighs* I honestly don't know how you manage to dress yourself in the morning.

Yes, the devs are suggesting a minimum price of 200k coin per gold with the coin boxes. But it is the PLAYERS that have made the choice to go above that price by an additional 300k coin. The developers didn't twist anyone's arm to buy or sell at 500k coin per gold.

Read the next line carefully.

The PLAYERS set the price of gold in the auction house.

Not the developers, not the GM's... the players. They set the price to sell, and they set the price to buy.

If that is a concept that is too hard for anyone to understand, then they really do not belong on the internet because they don't have the reasoning power to make logical choices.

~Saitada

p.s. anyway it is midnight here and I need to log into EVE and gank someones ship before bedtime so I can listen to them QQ about it before servers drop lol.

p.s.s. My blood pressure is fine thank you.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Indeed - the coin boxes set are the devs setting a minimum price of 200k.

If there was some box that you could pay coin for that gave gold, then that would be the devs setting a maximum price. But they've not done that.

Edit:
But... by introducing (repeatedly) anniversary pack the devs are placing something worth a LOT of coin there. Gold is currently worth 500k+ (even just tokens and jolly jones would have placed it at the 400k mark)
And that is the devs fault.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Indeed - the coin boxes set are the devs setting a minimum price of 200k.

If there was some box that you could pay coin for that gave gold, then that would be the devs setting a maximum price. But they've not done that.

Edit:
But... by introducing (repeatedly) anniversary pack the devs are placing something worth a LOT of coin there. Gold is currently worth 500k+ (even just tokens and jolly jones would have placed it at the 400k mark)
And that is the devs fault.

Not really, the devs are giving players a chance at awesome gear, but again it is the players that determine what they are willing to pay, for that chance. Not the developers.

~Saitada

Quilue - Sanctuary

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

*sighs* I honestly don't know how you manage to dress yourself in the morning.

Yes, the devs are suggesting a minimum price of 200k coin per gold with the coin boxes. But it is the PLAYERS that have made the choice to go above that price by an additional 300k coin. The developers didn't twist anyone's arm to buy or sell at 500k coin per gold.

Read the next line carefully.

The PLAYERS set the price of gold in the auction house.

Not the developers, not the GM's... the players. They set the price to sell, and they set the price to buy.

If that is a concept that is too hard for anyone to understand, then they really do not belong on the internet because they don't have the reasoning power to make logical choices.

~Saitada

ok so you've agreed that devs can control the minimum price of gold,

well read this again:

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So if PWI suddenly decided to sell 1 million coin packs for 1 gold each, you would blame the players for the subsequent inflation?

if PWI were to make perfect hammers cost 1 gold, the minimum price of gold would be at the upper limit of 1 million coins per gold. what say you then? would we still have the power to set the gold price? last time i checked gold price caps at 1 million coins.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

ok so you've agreed that devs can control the minimum price of gold,

if PWI were to make perfect hammers cost 1 gold, the minimum price of gold would be at the upper limit of 1 million coins per gold. what say you then? would we still have the power to set the gold price?

At that point, no we wouldn't. And You would see me here raising pure unadulterated hell about it.

To be honest I am not real happy about the Coin chests either, but they DO set a basic standard (something the game didn't have before) of coin value per gold.

~Saitada

Hazardus - Heavens Tear

Yep, the boxes basically set gold at minimum 200k.

The bottom line is theres a lot more coin in circulation on the servers as compared to the gold...so more buyers as compared to sellers.
People with lots of coins keep buying gold for ridiculous prices and that just helps push gold up further.

Yes the anni packs are partly to blame for the inflated gold prices, purely since they drive up the demand for gold so much higher. In the days? day? hours? hat they were removed we saw gold drop from 500k to 350k in AH.

So yes the devs are trying to milk the cash cow, but it really is the buyers who set the max gold price at AH. Gold sellers would be forced to lower prices if people just didn't buy gold at 500k a piece.

To fix this what they need is a event which is a pure coin sink, i.e. no gold substitutes allowed. If people end up with less coin and don't buy gold at 500k, automatically the gold price will drop. Joly almost did that. The 100k option was cheaper than buying gold at AH.

I say give us a non CS event with some moderately nice rewards...aerocraft, fashions, pots, a few molds. But please, no more of the endgame giveaways please. b:thanks

rhapsodus

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Care to try again? Or will you continue to claim current prices for gold of 500k are the developers fault, when it is the players setting the prices by buying and selling? Remember, the developers designed the game to make money for themselves, so they ARE going to make things to put in the game that will encourage addicts with no control over their spending, to spend, that is the nature of Free2Play games, but to say it is the developers fault for the player set price of gold in the auction house, is utterly and fantastically stupid.~Saitada

how is the developer not at fault? this is exactly how things work in life. governments use fiscal and monetary policies to influence consumer demand and GDP. the key word is influence. they don't force us to do anything or respond to anything, human nature makes us do so.

an example:

GDP is falling, and the economy is turning down into a recession. the government cuts interest rates. the cost of borrowing money is now lower. what do consumers see? the potential consumer surplus rises, and they will continue to borrow more until they reach the optimum purchase rule, where they maximize their consumer surplus (where marginal utility equals price). this is basic human nature. we strive to maximize our utility, and given that the government has stepped in to lower the cost of borrowing, citizens recognize a potential for more utility, and therefore will respond accordingly.

It's the same here. for whatever reason, perhaps for personal profits, PWI decides to put anniversary packs on sale. and what makes the anniversary packs so enticing? they contain items that are worth far above 1 gold. and what's the utility for obtaining one of these items? sky high. whats the price for this? 1 gold, which is relatively low. so what happened? the utility of buying 1 gold suddenly shot up high. they will try to maximize their consumer surplus by purchasing packs until the cost of buying a pack outweighs the utility of buying a pack.

in short, this means demand rises. and with that, price rises. yes. nobody forces us to buy these packs, but following the optimum purchase rule, in which all rational beings will try to maximize their consumer surplus in the consumption of a good, this is the way they will act. and PWI obviously knows this, and is using it to their advantage to milk us for money.

so i ask. how is this NOT in any way or shape or form their doing? they are exploiting human nature to their profits. i'm not saying that is wrong. that's how any business makes money. but to entirely lay the blame on us for following only what we call logic is wrong.

VenLooki - Heavens Tear

A problem is..

They do a jolly jones event like the halloween event now.. To get money OUT OF THE GAME.


WHY the hell do they use anni packs to bring tons of milions in the game(2x Best Luck=10 million big note)


The problem is.. There is to many coins in the game due to the anni packs.. Thats why prices go up...
And the Devs use events like jolly jones to get the money out of the game.. Well i recommend then: STOP BRINGING IT IN AND OUT AT SAME TIME!!

*omg..*

Taranta - Dreamweaver

I'm noticing something that a lot of people seem to be missing here: The Chest of Coins existed in game well before the anniversary packs came around. Long before gold had even cracked 200k per unit as well. And people seem to think that the developers have put these in with intention to drive up prices? I honestly don't think that the developers care about in game prices created by a completely free market economy. More than anything else, they want their work to be both validated and enjoyed.

Someone from above them is considering profits, potential gains, and overall cost of running a game such as this, and without those people, any online game could not run. Unfortunately, they are just as prone to greed as the next person, and the explosion of profit in the short term drew them in, compared to long term gains. Many people have already put up Perfect World Entertainment's stock price, and they made massive gains over the last quarter. Now I have to ask you: As a marketing manager, would you completely pull an item that has made you incredible amounts of money over the time it was available? Or would you allow more people access to said item, maximising profit with relatively low risks involved, especially with a high risk venture coming along shortly? There are more than two groups involved in this, and many people seem to be forgetting that.

Ah, well. I probably shouldn't expect too many people to think about this too much. Even for the short time I thought about it, I got a headache. I can't imagine what would happen if I thought about it for the long term...