Take a Step Back

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  • IDaun - Dreamweaver
    IDaun - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    so wat makes u think a gm didnt start the rise of gold prices? it's kinda "odd" how gold prices went from 100k-400k right before aniv packs. thus more ppl bought gold w/ their own $ and less w/ game coin.

    I doubt GMs/Devs started the rise-- at least not on purpose. They (PWE) don't care about whether you buy with ingame coins or not-- SOMEONE is buying the Zen either way-- that's what makes them happy.

    Also, Saitada, sorry to disagree with you-- but it's not just the buyer's fault. It's not just the seller's fault. And it's not just PWE's fault-- it's all three, as others have probably said before.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=7660692001&dateline=1259283228[/SIGPIC]
  • Black_lce - Heavens Tear
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Arhil - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That's simple economics, really. The market anticipated the release of the packs, which drove gold up in "preparation" for them. The gold sellers knew that the packs would be in high demand, so they could get away with raising their prices, and people would still buy.

    so ur saying ppl can see into the future and know wats going to come out when, months in advance? and wats the name of the looney bin ur in?
  • Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear
    Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    The biggest problem with high gold prices isnt the zen buyers and it isnt the people wanting to buy gold to buy items they think they need, such as charms etc.

    The problem is with the re-sellers, buy cheap sell high

    TBH they should limit how much gold one account can buy from the AH per day or per week
    so ur saying ppl can see into the future and know wats going to come out when, months in advance? and wats the name of the looney bin ur in?

    Not really, most players knew when the games anniversary was, quick check on PWdatabase shows the packs, so they took a gamble they would be released
  • Black_lce - Heavens Tear
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    IDaun - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I doubt GMs/Devs started the rise-- at least not on purpose. They (PWE) don't care about whether you buy with ingame coins or not-- SOMEONE is buying the Zen either way-- that's what makes them happy.

    Also, Saitada, sorry to disagree with you-- but it's not just the buyer's fault. It's not just the seller's fault. And it's not just PWE's fault-- it's all three, as others have probably said before.

    ill explain it again.

    they raise prices to where less ppl buy gold w/ coin. thus more ppl buy gold w/ real $ cause they can't afford it in coin. thus meaning more income for the gms.

    and u wonder y they just close the threads on aniv packs w/out reading them. and they dont put a limit on gold prices cause they profit from them.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    <removed>
    :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Arhil - Heavens Tear
    Arhil - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    so ur saying ppl can see into the future and know wats going to come out when, months in advance? and wats the name of the looney bin ur in?

    Months? Gold didn't spike months in advance of the packs, unless you're forgetting about the last Jolly Jones event that caused a spike as well. Perhaps you're considering them to be one event total?

    There was an announcement about the packs prior to them appearing in the cash shop. It wasn't much, mind you, only a day or two if I remember right. But a lot of players knew the anniversary was coming up, and seeing the "Anniversary Pack" listed on pwdatabase led to the natural assumption that it would be part of the event.

    And btw, this "predicting the future" you mention happens all the time in the RL stock market too. Stocks rise & fall based on assumptions about supply & demand, sometimes before the actual data is released to confirm it. It's nothing new. We simply see it in a much more exaggerated fashion here in game, since our economy is run by a playerbase whose median age is.. what, 18? 20 perhaps? Chances are, the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't have a lot of experience in economics yet, like the brokers on Wall Street do. b:chuckle
    Don't mind me, I'm just here for the free food!
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  • Arhil - Heavens Tear
    Arhil - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ill explain it again.

    they raise prices to where less ppl buy gold w/ coin. thus more ppl buy gold w/ real $ cause they can't afford it in coin. thus meaning more income for the gms.

    and u wonder y they just close the threads on aniv packs w/out reading them. and they dont put a limit on gold prices cause they profit from them.

    Actually, I think the opposite is true. I'm a cash shop player, and with the huge increase in the gold rate, I don't buy nearly as much zen as i used to, because my dollar stretches much further now. So PWI is actually getting LESS money from me. I know many other cash shop players in the same situation. If anything, the players who ARE still charging zen to buy anni packs may be making up that difference.
    Don't mind me, I'm just here for the free food!
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  • Black_lce - Heavens Tear
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    lmao nice post
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Jezus.... Some of you people are really grade A low brain powered individuals.

    Simple Economics people.

    I buy shell necklaces for $0.10 ea. ( Yes I said ten cents each ) I turn around and SELL them for $10.00 ea to tourists here in Hawaii.

    Why?

    Because they will pay that price for them!

    If my sales of shell necklaces drop below X threshhold... I lower my price to encourage quicker sales. I don't keep my price at $10.00 per if I can't sell them for $10.00 per.

    If your unable to see or understand that concept, then I honestly do feel sorry for you.

    Let me say it again. It DOES NOT MATTER WHAT PRICE I PUT ON MY GOLD... if it is too high, you won't buy it. So I put a price on it that you will pay. As long as YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY THAT PRICE my prices will stay there.

    That is Economics 101

    ~Saitada
  • andracil
    andracil Posts: 2,949 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Waffle, I'm being very lenient with this thread, don't **** it up now.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    andracil wrote: »
    Waffle, I'm being very lenient with this thread, don't **** it up now.
    im surprised this is the one you chose to leave open. it seems like the most likely to start a legion of angry players/flame wars.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • andracil
    andracil Posts: 2,949 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I'm keeping an eye on it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    andracil wrote: »
    I'm keeping an eye on it.
    Me as well. And trying REALLY hard (and starting to fail) in keeping my tendency to bring out the flame thrower at some people to a minimum.

    I am amazed at how few people actually understand basic economics.

    ~Saitada
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Blame Bush and no child left behind :\. Econ in CA classes is kind of fail.

    The first thing they teach you guys in HS Econ is this, kids:

    When the supply of gold is high, and demand is low; (IE. no sales) the gold will deflate in price, and youll have a surplus.

    When supply of gold is low, and demand is high; (IE. fashion releases, charmpacks, dragon orb sales) the gold will inflate and you have a shortage.

    For every consumer that disagrees with a price, there is another willing to replace them, and buy at the dumb price.

    YOU inflate gold, not GMs. YOU set the price, not greedy people. Its not that hard to understand ladies and gents.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Arhil - Heavens Tear
    Arhil - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Me as well. And trying REALLY hard (and starting to fail) in keeping my tendency to bring out the flame thrower at some people to a minimum.

    I am amazed at how few people actually understand basic economics.

    ~Saitada

    Like I mentioned in my post, Saitada... You have to remember the age group we're talking about here. A large portion of them probably haven't even TAKEN an economics class yet, much less had any real life experience dealing with it.
    Don't mind me, I'm just here for the free food!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Pegasi - Lost City
    Pegasi - Lost City Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Basic economics run on more than one element. Perhaps at given times that one element has a greater effect on the others or than the others, but said others are not ruled out as some would wish them.

    I want to say it's all the buyer's fault too, but someone has to keep pushing their limits, if no one pushed, the price wouldn't rise, if there was no sale on stuff, the demand wouldn't rise either.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    When Saukey decides she can swim, I know I didn't get the DC pop-up again. Wish she swam when it matters.
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Personally I think that if the devs would put a way to buy gold ingame with coins we woudln't have a problem. Maybe have an option at the banker to convert 300k coins for 1 gold. So zhen buyers can sell gold but also there's some kind of regulation and people can buy the things they need such as charm etc. Or sell charms for coin at the apothecary. Buying a gold charm for 1.6 upward to 1.9 million coins is just ridiculous.
  • Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear
    Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

    That is Economics 101

    ~Saitada

    But you are assuming that people reading this can even count to 101 b:shutup
  • Ixiel - Sanctuary
    Ixiel - Sanctuary Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    But you are assuming that people reading this can even count to 101 b:shutup

    I can count all the way to schfifty five.
    A B and C, abandoned but controlled.
    M can't you see? Half of me was sold.
    X Y and Z, Xerox your zombies then
    there's nothing here but
    Life 1 0 1.
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Biggest flaw in your plan-you're trying to get the whole game to stop buying gold. That's almost impossible. Also,you're forgetting the sellers don't HAVE to sell the gold. Now,lets say we wait for 2 weeks, and the prices don't go down. The sellers don't care-they'll just buy some anniversary packs,get awesome gear which we DO need, and sell that. Now, let's say they can't afford to buy the anniversary packs. What happens? They wait until the rising tide expansion and buy some awesome mounts, which we can't get in game. At the same time they're owning in PVP. Everyone will want a cash shopper in their team, because of their charms. And what happens to the non gold buyers? We're stuck as the low levels that keep getting pked. Nobody will want us in teams. There'll be CSer only factions. And the price of gold doesn't drop because they don't need the coins-they can buy anything they like from the boutique and resell it. In the end, its us who lose out.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • Darcwolf - Lost City
    Darcwolf - Lost City Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I deserve every bit of an edge as I am willing to put into the game. If I am willing to buy zhen, then I should get something out of it... while I disagree with the Anni packs personally.. I should be able to buy any mount I want, or any materials I want or any number of dragon orbs I want or any clothing I want etc...

    The advantage goes to those willing to pay. Not those who don't. But you missed the thrust of my argument. The thrust of the argument was the prices for gold. People are screaming about it.. but still buying. Stop buying and refuse to pay stupid prices and the price WILL come down.

    ~Saitada


    And my point is the server is flooded with oracle noobs and people with lunar weapons that are complete idiots just cause they paid more money, sound like a private server to me, donate the most money and you get to own everyone, even though you have no skill at all.

    Some of us actually work in game for gold cause we cant afford to spend hundreds of dollars on a GAME! Im all for supporting the game, thats why I spend a little every month, but this is just stupid.
  • Black_lce - Heavens Tear
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Darcwolf - Lost City wrote: »
    And my point is the server is flooded with oracle noobs and people with lunar weapons that are complete idiots just cause they paid more money, sound like a private server to me, donate the most money and you get to own everyone, even though you have no skill at all.

    Some of us actually work in game for gold cause we cant afford to spend hundreds of dollars on a GAME! Im all for supporting the game, thats why I spend a little every month, but this is just stupid.

    i'm Black_lce and i second this b:victory
  • FoxRunning - Heavens Tear
    FoxRunning - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    yeah,but the ones who are causing the trouble with the giant amounts anni pack purchases are not likely to be teenagers, but rather adults with deeper pockets, i think

    Arhil - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Like I mentioned in my post, Saitada... You have to remember the age group we're talking about here. A large portion of them probably haven't even TAKEN an economics class yet, much less had any real life experience dealing with it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    (and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
    "Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.

    -FrankieRaye"
    Playing here since '08b:heart
  • Black_lce - Heavens Tear
    Black_lce - Heavens Tear Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    yeah,but the ones who are causing the trouble with the giant amounts anni pack purchases are not likely to be teenagers, but rather adults with deeper pockets, i think

    not if their using their parents CC
  • Arhil - Heavens Tear
    Arhil - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    yeah,but the ones who are causing the trouble with the giant amounts anni pack purchases are not likely to be teenagers, but rather adults with deeper pockets, i think

    Quite possibly. Although I distinctly remember a character named MomsVisa getting a duke announcement a few weeks back on HT. b:chuckle
    Don't mind me, I'm just here for the free food!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    yeah,but the ones who are causing the trouble with the giant amounts anni pack purchases are not likely to be teenagers, but rather adults with deeper pockets, i think
    Not necessarily- I know someone who spent 3 grand on a (not pwi) game, and he wasn't even working. In the same game the strongest player had spent 81 thousand dollars. Don't know how old he was though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • Viorei - Heavens Tear
    Viorei - Heavens Tear Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I will keep this short.

    The price of gold is both player and PWE driven. Given the current rate of inflation, it is naive to think it is purely or predominately player driven.

    The idea that players can band together to strike against high gold prices is impractical.

    The only people who have the power to really affect gold prices are not the players but PWE.

    Whilst I'm all for having different opinions, on this particular issue, I think one would be naive to think otherwise. b:chuckle
  • Arhil - Heavens Tear
    Arhil - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I'd say it's a pretty even 50/50 split between PWI and the players. In the end, the players are the ones who decide they "simply MUST have that cool new ____" that just came out, so they bite the bullet & buy gold at an inflated price. Or, on the flip side, they see the higher demand, and raise their selling price if they're a zen purchaser.

    You are right, however, about PWI having a big effect. If they took a few weeks off from having constant sales & "cool new stuff" released, it would help the demand for gold to drop, and bring the trade rate back down a bit.
    Don't mind me, I'm just here for the free food!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That is right. YOU are buying. YOU are fueling the inflation by being willing to pay the prices for gold. YOU are making my wallet VERY fat. So YOU have only YOURSELF, and YOUR greed and willingness to pay idiotic prices for gold, for the price of gold being so high.
    No no no. It's not some vague all-encompassing "YOU" that's doing it.

    It's me (and others like me). I'm buying that high-priced Gold and turning a profit with it, and I have no intention of actually using it for anything else.

    If you want to blame the players, don't lump the innocent ones in with the likes of me. It's not their fault Gold prices are so high, because they're not buying it. It's also not their fault that they can't do anything to stop people like me, because PWI sets the rules (in this case, including the Anni-packs) and I'm just exploiting the current rule set.
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    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • drmarley
    drmarley Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Jezus.... Some of you people are really grade A low brain powered individuals.

    Simple Economics people.

    I buy shell necklaces for $0.10 ea. ( Yes I said ten cents each ) I turn around and SELL them for $10.00 ea to tourists here in Hawaii.

    Why?

    Because they will pay that price for them!

    If my sales of shell necklaces drop below X threshhold... I lower my price to encourage quicker sales. I don't keep my price at $10.00 per if I can't sell them for $10.00 per.

    If your unable to see or understand that concept, then I honestly do feel sorry for you.

    Let me say it again. It DOES NOT MATTER WHAT PRICE I PUT ON MY GOLD... if it is too high, you won't buy it. So I put a price on it that you will pay. As long as YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY THAT PRICE my prices will stay there.

    That is Economics 101

    ~Saitada
    What caused such a high demand for gold? The anniversary packs - implemented by PWE.

    What's continuing the inflation in gold prices? The anniversary packs - implemented by PWE.

    It's not as clear cut as you're making it. It's naive to even begin to imply that gold is currently at an all time high solely because of the greedy community.

    When you can obtain an end game item from an item which costs 1 gold, it causes a large demand for that item. People become willing to pay an exorbitant price because the possible reward is ridiculous (unheard of in virtually ever MMO in existence). How do you value a chance at an end-game item? An item worth 10s of millions could be obtained following a simple *click*. As a result, prices skyrocket. These packs are basically just juiced up chest of coins. The same principal is in effect with both items.

    There's two simple solutions to this problem IMO:

    1) Change the possible rewards from the packs.

    or

    2) Reprice the packs to accurately reflect their value. One gold should not potentially become an item worth 100 mil.

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