Sage/Demon Ultimates

drag0nball

I just wonder how much hits usually an Ultimate Skill to a mob if you own a sage or demon one already? All 3 ultimates
I am just curious how much can hit those ultimates to a Mob if you are arcane.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

drag0nball wrote: »

I just wonder how much hits usually an Ultimate Skill to a mob if you own a sage or demon one already? All 3 ultimates
I am just curious how much can hit those ultimates to a Mob if you are arcane.

Bad question, because it very depend on weapon. Refines and so. So every1 hit in different damage.

drag0nball

Well then I rephrase my question.

I want to see how much damage will do the ultimates to a mob (maybe level 1 mob) and with wich weapon and how much is refined and what gems has the weapon and what rings is wearing the person.






BTW u just joined a month ago and already level 88???
How in the world did you got that so fast???

Hizaki - Dreamweaver

Lots of quests, oracles, rb gamma, etc would be my guess.

Edit: and I forgot to answer the question. which I cant but I will throw in it also depends on the level of the ultimate, as my BT and BIDS levels are higher then MS because I use them more.

drag0nball

well still it is too fast that level 88..its insane I guess...
I am level 88 also but I didn't made that on 1 month...I needed that almost a year to get to level 88...

But you misunderstood something.
I want to see how much damage can do a sage or demon ultimate...not a normal ultimate because I have all of those 3 ultimates myself at level 10.

And as u see I want to know because I don't know for sure which path to choose..

Ty - Heavens Tear

Sage and demon ultimates have the same base damage and weapon modifiers. The only difference will be the +30% crit chance that Sage BIDS has and also the Sage masteries. If you were to choose your path on ultimates alone then you'd have to go Sage.

TehMage - Lost City

Ty - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sage and demon ultimates have the same base damage and weapon modifiers. The only difference will be the +30% crit chance that Sage BIDS has and also the Sage masteries. If you were to choose your path on ultimates alone then you'd have to go Sage.

It's funny you say that because just the other day i was having a discussion about the sage BIDS with a friend of mine. We were discussing whether sage BIDS actually: 1) crits more often, or 2) hits harder.

I have tried out some (other servers) to test this theory, and we found out that you don't hit harder and the "crit" people always seem to think that just because thes kill says that you will crit more, doesnt mean your chances of actually making a crit will be larger. You really only get crit time for 5 seconds after using your sage skill IF the skill lands that chance.

In other words, you don't crit more often and you don't crit for more damage.

drag0nball

Well I never care about the critical unless it is 100%

Because this is like 50% chance...to may get 30% so u may get that chance to get 30% or u may not...even if you Get the chance it is not a guarantee you will crit...but it is a possibility.
So I have to say that never count on the crit...but still its nice if u have it.

I just want to know the hits how much can hit because sage has 25% mastery and demon just 20%

TehMage - Lost City

drag0nball wrote: »

Well I never care about the critical unless it is 100%

Because this is like 50% chance...to may get 30% so u may get that chance to get 30% or u may not...even if you Get the chance it is not a guarantee you will crit...but it is a possibility.
So I have to say that never count on the crit...but still its nice if u have it.

I just want to know the hits how much can hit because sage has 25% mastery and demon just 20%

Well with demon and sage masteries, you will get a slightly higher % of damage output with the sage masteries obviously, but then again it can always go into the whole "choose the path that makes you happier" discussion that everyone has seen over and over and over again.

If its that 5% that will make you happy go sage, me personally i'm going to go demon b:victoryb:cute

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

In other words, you don't crit more often and you don't crit for more damage.

I dunno what you are up to, but that's just plain and simple wrong. You basically get an extra 15% crit with BIDS, which is a lot, even if u don't count the spells u use after the BIDS.

And what about the more damage? If you say you don't crit for more than a demon, that might be true, because the demon ults have the same base damage. But then u still ignore the effect of the sage's mastery.

May I ask how many times u used the BIDS during your test? And if u did use a demon BIDS as comparison?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

TehMage - Lost City wrote: »

It's funny you say that because just the other day i was having a discussion about the sage BIDS with a friend of mine. We were discussing whether sage BIDS actually: 1) crits more often, or 2) hits harder.

I have tried out some (other servers) to test this theory, and we found out that you don't hit harder and the "crit" people always seem to think that just because thes kill says that you will crit more, doesnt mean your chances of actually making a crit will be larger. You really only get crit time for 5 seconds after using your sage skill IF the skill lands that chance.

In other words, you don't crit more often and you don't crit for more damage.

You obviously dont understand. The point isnt what happens after the dragon, the point is that the crit increase also affects the dragon. See the skill process this effect between the channel and the cast. Most 99 Sage Wizards have 10%+ crit so with sage BIDS your BIDS has a 40%+ chance to crit, and if it doesnt crit, just use hailstorm. To see this in action, watch Haiz's videos

TehMage - Lost City

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You obviously dont understand. The point isnt what happens after the dragon, the point is that the crit increase also affects the dragon. See the skill process this effect between the channel and the cast. Most 99 Sage Wizards have 10%+ crit so with sage BIDS your BIDS has a 40%+ chance to crit, and if it doesnt crit, just use hailstorm. To see this in action, watch Haiz's videos

I do understand how the skill works, but it's really not all that everyone's making it out to be. Yes it may affect the dragon TO CRIT, doesn't mean it's going to do anymore damage. The crit is on a chance.

The way the extra 30% chance to crit is a % of what crit you already have not 30 EXTRA %. So like you stated in your post, "Most 99 sage wizard have 10% base crit". That being the case they would only get a 3% more totally up to 13% crit for that extra 5 seconds after it works.

Adroit - Lost City

TehMage - Lost City wrote: »

It's funny you say that because just the other day i was having a discussion about the sage BIDS with a friend of mine. We were discussing whether sage BIDS actually: 1) crits more often, or 2) hits harder.

I have tried out some (other servers) to test this theory, and we found out that you don't hit harder and the "crit" people always seem to think that just because thes kill says that you will crit more, doesnt mean your chances of actually making a crit will be larger. You really only get crit time for 5 seconds after using your sage skill IF the skill lands that chance.

In other words, you don't crit more often and you don't crit for more damage.

I hope you're joking.. u could maybe miss the 5% extra dmg from sage mastery from damage range.. (still higher if you were to average several hits). The 5 seconds after are non-factor.. the point is that the crit adds to the skill itself. The hardest skill we have now has AN ADDITIONAL 30% crit half the time. Im arcane and I get hit for over 5k from a 99 ice dragon.. these ults by themself one shot lots of people, and should tick the charm of anybody that survived (there are exceptions.. but for 95% of players out there this should hold true) so a crit would one shot them. Now any decent 99+ mage should have at least 10% crit.. and its easy for a good mage to have 15% or more (heavenrage boots and lunar rings alone gives 10%) and adding 30% crit would bring your crit to at LEAST 40%. In a TW.. dropping an ult on 6+ people would mean you are likely to crit on several people.. one shotting them and anyone without a rediculous amount of hp. I really dont understand how ur thinking..

Adroit - Lost City

TehMage - Lost City wrote: »

I do understand how the skill works, but it's really not all that everyone's making it out to be. Yes it may affect the dragon TO CRIT, doesn't mean it's going to do anymore damage. The crit is on a chance.

The way the extra 30% chance to crit is a % of what crit you already have not 30 EXTRA %. So like you stated in your post, "Most 99 sage wizard have 10% base crit". That being the case they would only get a 3% more totally up to 13% crit for that extra 5 seconds after it works.

sure looks like more than 13% when haiz drops an ult and almost half the people are critted.. along with the description saying it increases crit by 30% (not 30% of what you have)

TehMage - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

sure looks like more than 13% when haiz drops an ult and almost half the people are critted.. along with the description saying it increases crit by 30% (not 30% of what you have)

Yea it doesn't say (30% of what you have) it just says 30% but that's doesn't mean its 30% extra.

To be honest i was leaning more towards going sage a long time ago just to see who was better. Only reason ppl could come up with was because of BIDS, pyro, and chi skill.

After i tested out both sides I didn't see much of a difference. Demon side with the masteries, i land alot more crits than people give their masteries credit for. Then again this is just how things went when i tested them. I'm not trying to start a forum arguement. b:sad

BrownflameZ - Lost City

drag0nball wrote: »

BTW u just joined a month ago and already level 88???
How in the world did you got that so fast???

Bot, Crack, 10 japanese kids? .. or just buy account.

and just to sum things up.. Sage ults > Demon ults .. Almost every other demon skill > Sage skill. Thats on a one bye one comparison, multiple skills = sage is pretty rapeage. For e.g Sage Sandstorm + Earth Mastery = more damage then Demon Sandstorm + Earth mastery, where as Demon Sandstorm > Sage Sandstorm by itself.

bawksy

drag0nball wrote: »

BTW u just joined a month ago and already level 88???
How in the world did you got that so fast???

Forum join date =/= game join date

Amour - Lost City

TehMage - Lost City wrote: »

Yea it doesn't say (30% of what you have) it just says 30% but that's doesn't mean its 30% extra.

To be honest i was leaning more towards going sage a long time ago just to see who was better. Only reason ppl could come up with was because of BIDS, pyro, and chi skill.

After i tested out both sides I didn't see much of a difference. Demon side with the masteries, i land alot more crits than people give their masteries credit for. Then again this is just how things went when i tested them. I'm not trying to start a forum arguement. b:sad

It is 30% extra...
there's no way I crit 5/10 people with 15% crit when the buff procs in TW.
The 10 seconds after isn't nonfactor either. Gush and pyro hurt when they crit

Taurzo - Lost City

I wanna see Haiz's videos wuts the link b:victory

Adroit - Lost City

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

I wanna see Haiz's videos wuts the link b:victory

http://www.youtube.com/user/haizinator

drag0nball

well I want to put more damage....
And you know even gush and sandstorm can be better at sage if the damage is very high at level 100.
I mean if you hit 30,000 with sandstorm, the sage gives +25% so it hits 37,500
Demon Sandstorm gives the 30,000 + 1200 =31,200 + 20% and totally hits 37,480.
Well Sage hits 20 more and the sage bonus still works.
But Sage only hits harder the Sandstorm than demon, if the normal damage is very very high. If normal Sandstorm is 20,000...than Demon hits harder.


Now that's why I want to know how much damage can hit a Sandstorm at level 99-100 with the demon or sage skill owned and with which weapon.
And I also want to know how huge can be the damage for the ultimates to sage and demon too for as mob..
Like a number of hit. Because if it is too much damage...I mean over 50,000 than apparently Sage may hit better even for other spells too.
But if the ultimate hits a bit lower...than I dunno...
I want to know that 20%-25% how much difference has...before I feel sorry for it if I choose the wrong one...

prof

passives do not add damage based on what you hit! god. if that were true, fury would be TERRIBLY overpowered. mages would be hitting 6 digits in pvp.

drag0nball

so how it is working the masteries than?

prof

passives adds +% of the skill damage(that little number you see on every skill). since the most debated about doom is cryonite:

Focus the vigor energy and summon a water dragon that soars up to the sky, then smash land onto target and all surrounding enemies within radius of 12.0 meter. Inflicting basic magic damage with 500% equipment attack and 13955.0 water elemental damage. There is also 95% chance to render the enemy in speed reduction by 60%. Last for 8.0 seconds.

so base magic attack(values of magic attack with only int) + 500% of what you have with gears on(subtracting your base from this new variable) + 13,955(x25% vs. x20%).

that's your formula.

our exmaple will be prof(me): http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=8c7dad33697eb99f

dark passive:
540-540 + (7752-9667 x 500%) 41,460-51,035 + (13,995 + 20%) 16,794 = 58,794-68,396
holy passive:
540-540 + (7752-9667 x 500%) 41,460-51,035 + (13,995 + 25%) 17,464 = 59,464-69,039

so with my gear you're looking at an extra 1k raw damage with holy cryonite. the passives aren't that great, the only good thing about holy is this skill and immortal energy.

drag0nball

So holy power hits only a little bit more. And so the gush and those skills or sandstorm...the dark power hits more because the damage smaller...so the difference is even smaller + dark has damage there...
So only the chi and the ultimates may be best for sage...
But I still like the other spells because those spells will use a wizard much more often..even a sage cannot apply to an ultimate all the time, can he?
Now I dunno what to choose anymore....
I want more power more chi but fast casting too and good physical defence...too bad that no one has all these....

Or wait..now i get it..so the masteries never applies to the weapon or basic magic attack???
Only the number they will hit?
Its so hard to believe because e a lvl 101 wizard said that the more the weapon is refined the better is the difference for that earth mastery...
Or maybe was he wrong?
only the damage hit is counted and the wepaon and base magic attack is not?

prof

dark hits more on skills with +dmg mods, holy hits more on others. if the addition of the passive was as this other mage claims, reusing my example:

dark passive:
540-540 + (7752-9667 x 500% = 41,460-51,035) + (13,995 + 20% = 16,794) = 58,794-68,396
holy passive:
540-540 + (7752-9667 x 500% = 41,460-51,0350) + (13,995 + 25% = 17,4640) = 59,464-69,039

dark passive:
(540-540 x 20% = 648) + (7752-9667 x 500% = 41,460-51,035 x 20% = 49,752-61,243) + (13,995 + 20% 16,794) = 67,194-78,685

holy passive:
(540-540 x 25% = 675) + (7752-9667 x 500% = 41,460-51,035 x 25% = 51,825-63,794) + (13,995 + 25% 17,464) = 69,964-81,933

that would turn 1k raw damage into about 3k raw damage. it's plausible, my example was only how I saw it. even so, this is still a very small difference.

drag0nball

yes its true but now I don't know which is right one...
Skills which are faster for demon...still are not that fast.
Hm...
And it is true that demon lacks the chi so much as they say??
And sage has always many chi?

prof

I've never found myself in a desperate need of chi. I always have at least 2 fury, and almost always have a full 3 bars. this huge difference is over exaggerated, just like the passives.

drag0nball

prof wrote: »

I've never found myself in a desperate need of chi. I always have at least 2 fury, and almost always have a full 3 bars. this huge difference is over exaggerated, just like the passives.

But still when I leveled the masteries to level 10...even the 2% or the 4% it was slightly noticeable...

Hmm maybe everything is exaggerated ...
Because sage wizards says another thing thats why they gone to sage and demon also...
still the difference between the controls is exagerated too. I mean demon wizard stunskills maybe use less time

But the masteries is written Increases Earth damage by 20%.
so must be to all damage increase... but I dunno

prof

http://www.ecatomb.net/skillmg.php

Sacrificial Fire-Storm (92)
Demon version has a 50% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.

Stone Rain (89)
Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds.

Force of Will (99)
Demon version reduces cooldown by two seconds.

those are the only control skills I can find, and I can't see how it makes this choice more 'control' oriented. if you actually look through the list, the skills are designed to be used quicker, in a shorter amount of time, with more damage.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

prof wrote: »

http://www.ecatomb.net/skillmg.php

Sacrificial Fire-Storm (92)
Demon version has a 50% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.

Stone Rain (89)
Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds.

Force of Will (99)
Demon version reduces cooldown by two seconds.

those are the only control skills I can find, and I can't see how it makes this choice more 'control' oriented. if you actually look through the list, the skills are designed to be used quicker, in a shorter amount of time, with more damage.

Hailstorm freeze...