90s for those neither charming nor refined

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

On behalf of my casual-play-for-fun faction, I am wondering how playable the 90s are if you have no Refined gear, as well as no Charms. This question is intended for all classes, as I am aware different classes have different requirements.

At the moment, most of my faction members have adapted to a charmless style of play, aside from a few Boutique-payers and one veno who needs a charm to herc-tank TTs (not sure why; I don't know the venomancer class). Anways, due to Gold prices, I foresee that most of my faction members will be entering the 90s with unrefined TT armor and unrefined weapons.

Given this, will my members have a much less enjoyable experience in their 90s? Or is PWI still fun and playable with unrefined TT gear and charmless souls, at those levels?

As an aside, I have encouraged them to keep an eye out in the Auction House for Refined hand-me-downs, and I think we maybe able to get most of the members used Refined weapon molds.

My thanx, in advance.

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear

Cleric: not playable in 90s without charms, if other party members lack charms, charm cost for cleric goes up if cleric doesn't use charm, charm cost for rest of party goes up
Barb: only playable in 90s without charms if fully geared and decently refined with a GOOD cleric.
Archer: Least negative effect on the party by not having a charm
BM: needs hp charm, pots will cover mp
Wizard: Better be refined if you wanna survive bosses, hp charms, also a must
Veno: Least neccessity for a charm with a few exceptions

If you want to get the best quality TT90 weapons, everybody in party will need hp charms, and at very least the cleric and wizard will need mp charms. All party members will need a good quantity of hp. Is everything playable? maybe... Should you make your party members who have charms suffer because you don't want to spend the money? No, gtfo.

riddiculus

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

On behalf of my casual-play-for-fun faction, I am wondering how playable the 90s are if you have no Refined gear, as well as no Charms. This question is intended for all classes, as I am aware different classes have different requirements.

At the moment, most of my factions have adapted to a charmless style of play, aside from a few Boutique-payers and one veno who needs a charm to herc-tank TTs (not sure why; I don't know the venomancer class). Anways, due to Gold prices, I foresee that most of my faction members will be entering the 90s with unrefined TT armor and unrefined weapons.

Given this, will my members have a much less enjoyable experience in their 90s? Or is PWI still fun and playable with unrefined TT gear and charmless souls, at those levels?

As an aside, I have encouraged them to keep an eye out in the Auction House for Refined hand-me-downs, and I think we maybe able to get most of the members used Refined weapon molds.

My thanx, in advance.

Depends wat u consider as fun....

if u consider rebirth as fun... u cant do them without charm
if u consider tw as fun... u probably would lose/die quickly without charm n gear
if u consider TT as fun... yes u can still do them... just takes longer and more effort i guess.. although some bosses would b quite difficult to do
if u consider grinding or dailies as fun... yes u can still have fun without charm n gear

i hope i help

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

On behalf of my casual-play-for-fun faction, I am wondering how playable the 90s are if you have no Refined gear, as well as no Charms. This question is intended for all classes, as I am aware different classes have different requirements.

At the moment, most of my factions have adapted to a charmless style of play, aside from a few Boutique-payers and one veno who needs a charm to herc-tank TTs (not sure why; I don't know the venomancer class). Anways, due to Gold prices, I foresee that most of my faction members will be entering the 90s with unrefined TT armor and unrefined weapons.

Given this, will my members have a much less enjoyable experience in their 90s? Or is PWI still fun and playable with unrefined TT gear at those levels?

As an aside, I have encouraged them to keep an eye out in the Auction House for Refined hand-me-downs, and I think we maybe able to get most of the members used Refined weapon molds.

My thanx, in advance.

Unless your friends have no clue how to play this game, I really do not see why they would be having problem now.

CS items were never needed to play the game, they just make the game easier. I guess they will have to learn how to play now that they are high level.

A few things that will help.
Always grab herbs, all kinds.
Use Apoc pots. They are wonderful.
Use your genie and decom crappy gear to feed it.

I have done TTs and Frost and even RBs with clerics and tanks that were charmless, it just took some coordination to get all the apoc pots needed and people need to think a little more, since they will not longer be able to get away with pulling a Leeroy Jenkins on a group of mobs.

PS - and yes, the cleric will be a tad busier with rezes... make sure you don't **** him off too much.

rsin

It has been my understanding that charms, refined gears and weapons are more of a want rather than a need. Depending on individual style of play. When I first started this game, my practice and style of playing when it came to quests was to kill a mob, meditate, repeat cycle. Some people dont have the patience or have either adapted their game play to needing things such as charms and what-not. Boutique items are not necessary at all to play the game. Some enjoy more with them while others get by without. It just depends on your individual style and how much time you have to dedicate to the game on a regular basis. Ive personally known people in the high 90's who have never refined or charmed at all. At the same time, Ive known few who charm and refine in their lv20-30's and get the best gear and weapons thru every level they achieve. Its all comes down to personal preference in my oppinion.

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cleric: not playable in 90s without charms, if other party members lack charms, charm cost for cleric goes up if cleric doesn't use charm, charm cost for rest of party goes up

Explain please. So far Yuanxiao is the better option in every single way except for PK mode, where you'd be spamming Plume Shell I guess (not a lick of personal experience, so only going with what I read on forums a while back), and Charms keep up with the mana drain better. Sure it requires an extra mouse click or button press from time to time...but that's only a problem if you're an AFKleric. b:shutup

Unless you mean HP charms, in which case Jiaozi are a respectable supplement for most situations so long as you pay attention. Though I won't lie...the extra layers of defense are certainly nice.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Well I still dont see why Apoth pots cant be used if one cannot afford charms. I see some of them being extremely useful (whether it be restoring hp or mp). The one main advantage of a charm is that you dont need to remember to click for healing and it also serves as a backup should your pots be in cooldown.

This, however, doesnt mean you cant play wihtout charms. As said, a squad with people who know how to play their classes well and also understand the limitations of the other classes, will still be able to complete their runs but maybe take a little bit longer and might require better coordination (not gonna come unless u know about urself and the others).

As for refines, I believe the tanks atleast would need them else boss runs would just be harder. Also having an extra cleric would be good if the two clerics can work in tandem

Santacruz - Heavens Tear

i never use charms but my armour is +3 and wep +4, but them refines are hardly immortal

i do everything this game has to offer appart from zhen and rebirth and im kickin **** and doin fine

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

As far as PVE goes for grinding, most classes wont need one charm but it is advised to have one. I can see you missing out on some parties due to lack of one though, unless you have a safe supply of the hp/mp food, and can time it well.

Refine wise, it just adds more offense and defense to your array. Its not needed toplay, but it makes things a hell of a lot easier.

All in all, I dont see why youre fretting, a good two hours of leveling 90+ can yield the cost of a charm, especially at lethal arenied sharpfangs. So stop fretting, youll find making money 90+ is fairly simple.
-Raine

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver

Just confirming...

2 hours of grind will yield roughly 800k-1.5 mil in drops? b:shocked

Quilue - Sanctuary

well...something about old valley of scarred perhaps? b:chuckle

Centetric - Lost City

u DONT NEED a charm >_> its just there for extra support =/ .

ive played the game so far charmless >.> (besides TW)

Dominatiger - Sanctuary

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just confirming...

2 hours of grind will yield roughly 800k-1.5 mil in drops? b:shocked

hell no!

barbs and Bms do about 100K profit grinding in one hour.
Only venos reach 200K profit in one hour.

malixdark

If your faction sticks together and doesn't get pulled apart by the allure of tw's with huge factions and trying to impress nubs and ego inflate, then yes, it's very much possible. Infact, you will most likely have a great time, lots of fun challenges and good experiences together. 95% of the game is manageable charmless.
As for refines, they aren't impossible even if you ignore the boutique. +6 refines and immaculate shards on everything are obviously out of reach, but a few dragon orbs and saving your mirages from quests and +1-3 isn't too difficult to obtain. Shard everything with average, pay attention to your build and pick your 3* bonuses carefully and you'll find yourself performing just as well as an average cash shopper.

malixdark

malixdark wrote: »

If your faction sticks together and doesn't get pulled apart by the allure of tw's with huge factions and trying to impress nubs and ego inflate, then yes, it's very much possible. Infact, you will most likely have a great time, lots of fun challenges and good experiences together. 95% of the game is manageable charmless.
As for refines, they aren't impossible even if you ignore the boutique. +6 refines and immaculate shards on everything are obviously out of reach, but a few dragon orbs and saving your mirages from quests and +1-3 isn't too difficult to obtain. Shard everything with average, pay attention to your build and pick your 3* bonuses carefully and you'll find yourself performing just as well as an average cash shopper.

Dominatiger - Sanctuary wrote: »

hell no!

barbs and Bms do about 100K profit grinding in one hour.
Only venos reach 200K profit in one hour.

This. The "I make 400k an hour on normal grinding minimum" thing you hear from some players is a lie. Even mat grinding doesn't yeild much thanks to over-camped spawns.
To become a veno who can make huge profit in TT requires reaching 90 and investing $200 or the coin equivalent in a herc. To become any other class who profits in TT you need a decent faction and a lot of friends who will bring you along.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Never seen the point in ppl saying "you must have a charm".
It would be better to say "you could have a charm".

It takes extra work farming herbs, look for good deals for MP/HP pots *ask your local veno friend*. Oh yeah *pray to god for an actual F2P event that would give you those event pots*.

If your guild works well together, you can actually refine w/o D.orbs <----takes some know how....and i can continue ...

All in all its a "F2P" and there is nothing stopping you from keeping it that way......for now.

EDIT: Response to upper post.
You can make a profit out of TT and no need for some god like squad.
400k an 1h is possible, but rare.
Made *wont say how much* in very short time

Centetric - Lost City

JUST to add i havent refined yet either b:surrender

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Centetric - Lost City wrote: »

JUST to add i havent refined yet either b:surrender

Everyone can refine to +2 easy, +3 lill tricky but doable, beyond takes allot of effort and TT mirage farm =P

Maiya - Lost City

I don't think I've ever made more than 200k in an hour grinding as a veno... My usual amount is 100-140k.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

malixdark wrote: »

This. The "I make 400k an hour on normal grinding minimum" thing you hear from some players is a lie. Even mat grinding doesn't yeild much thanks to over-camped spawns.

My friend does still manage to farm 400k per hour (with a fast mount, of course), so I can confirm that's possible even with the spawns being camped.

My other friend who grinds claims he can make 200k per hour doing so, but he's always poor so I don't know that he's not exaggerating.

Centetric - Lost City

Maiya - Lost City wrote: »

I don't think I've ever made more than 200k in an hour grinding as a veno... My usual amount is 100-140k.

same b:victory

Granrey - Sanctuary

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

On behalf of my casual-play-for-fun faction, I am wondering how playable the 90s are if you have no Refined gear, as well as no Charms. This question is intended for all classes, as I am aware different classes have different requirements.

At the moment, most of my faction members have adapted to a charmless style of play, aside from a few Boutique-payers and one veno who needs a charm to herc-tank TTs (not sure why; I don't know the venomancer class). Anways, due to Gold prices, I foresee that most of my faction members will be entering the 90s with unrefined TT armor and unrefined weapons.

Given this, will my members have a much less enjoyable experience in their 90s? Or is PWI still fun and playable with unrefined TT gear and charmless souls, at those levels?

As an aside, I have encouraged them to keep an eye out in the Auction House for Refined hand-me-downs, and I think we maybe able to get most of the members used Refined weapon molds.

My thanx, in advance.

Some people are giving you answers without reading your post.

Some are understanding your question as:

"is it posible to play at level 90 without at CS (charms, refines, ect)?"

So, they give you the answer as:

"yes, you can play at level 90 without a charm, I do it and..........."

or

"you should know already how to play without charm or you better learn..."

I think your real question was:

"Given this, will my members have a much less enjoyable experience in their 90s? "

my answer is: yes, they will enjoy the game less to a certain point (this depens on each individual). Myself, I like to earn what I use but if items are too expensive, it makes too much grinding that keeps me out of having fun.

Centetric - Lost City

well i dont think itll make it less enjoyable its not like u HAVE TO buy a charm or have refined gear.

it just adds to ur gameplay experience to make it EASIER for u. i dont think itll make it less enjoyable =/
if its like that lvl 9x
IM GONNA SO PISSED b:angry

Granrey - Sanctuary

Centetric - Lost City wrote: »

well i dont think itll make it less enjoyable its not like u HAVE TO buy a charm or have refined gear.

it just adds to ur gameplay experience to make it EASIER for u. i dont think itll make it less enjoyable =/
if its like that lvl 9x
IM GONNA SO PISSED b:angry

Again I think it depens on each individual. I dont like meditating neither to recover HP or recover MP. If I want to meditate very often, I play a puzzle game.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

Again I think it depens on each individual. I dont like meditating neither to recover HP or recover MP. If I want to meditate very often, I play a puzzle game.

Well, than you have the option to save and buy a charm. They are still for sale.

It comes down to choices. You don't mind to be crafty and farm some mats, you can play without charms.
You hate farming mats and you dont like to make apoc pots, than you have either only use regular pots or to buy a charm.

So, you do not need a charm, you may however want one, but it is up to you where you spend your coin.

Granrey - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, than you have the option to save and buy a charm. They are still for sale.
.

I totally agree but you are missing that the question was based on current gold prices that his/her guildies cannot afford. The question was not if they are still on sale or not.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It comes down to choices. You don't mind to be crafty and farm some mats, you can play without charms.

.

I totally agree but the question is how enjoyable is to play without those CS.

The question was not if you have alternatives or not.

Again, if you read the OP, you will understand the question better.

Waterboy - Lost City

unrefined armor/weapon for 90+ is literally marking yourself as useless o ya ur an archer, 2x as useless

charms, if ur too lazy to grind or try to make coins in another way join a tw faction w/ a decent amount of land for salary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

I totally agree but you are missing that the question was based on current gold prices that his/her guildies cannot afford. The question was not if they are still on sale or not.



I totally agree but the question is how enjoyable is to play without those CS.

The question was not if you have alternatives or not.

Again, if you read the OP, you will understand the question better.

I have, and that is why I posted what I did. I have come across really bummed clerics that thought they were stuck because they did not have charms. I was able to point them into the direction that they did not need charms to do TT runs or whatnot, all they needed was to spend some time farming mats, making apoc pots, and they would be able to do what they used to do and still have fun.

If he had said "will people still have fun after level 90 even with charms" I would not have bothered pointing out that people do not need CS at all (well, except maybe angels if you pvp). His question was pointing that without charms they would not be able to do what they used to be able to do with charms.

Also, charms are not that expensive. Assuming the 100k-150k per hour slow grinding, it would take them 1-2 hours to get enough to buy a bronze charm, 6-7 hours to get a gold one. In addition, hp/mp food is dirt cheap, and, at current prices, far more cost effective.

Faithera - Dreamweaver

I would love to spend less RL $ in this game... (ESPECIALLY, if and when I get to level 90)...so...

I've started collecting the gear I find with sockets already in it.
I did buy the super safe and inventory stones and max my cupboard as well and collect EVERYTHING I can. My favorite activity is following the trail of goodies behind someone who kills everything, but doesn't want their drops.
I only wish there were a quest as easy as the Crazy Stone quest for collecting sockets (though, that DOES get you socketed equipment, so I guess I just got my wish. lol)
I bought the map and some portal/teleport tokens, but I try to be as frugal as possible with the tokens by using the Teleport Masters whenever possible. I also load up on all available quests, empty my inventory into the bank, and then go grinding all the needed beasts that are in the same area as each other. AND I collect all my drops! Everything is worth SOMETHING to you, even if its junk armor - I decompose it and feed my genie. My highest AV is only this 34 Cleric, but I have L3 crafting for Apothecary, Blacksmith, Craftsman, and Tailor, so I can decompose or make any armor I or my alts might need. I am not the cleric you want on a squad pumping your HP. My V/S/M/D levels are nearly equal and only a slightly higher on magic, which I now know is unusual for clerics, but hey, each to their own. Now that I know, I'll probably start putting more on Magic to save on, or eliminate, MP charms. I've read posts about squads shunning uncharmed clerics and I don't have a problem with being shunned if it comes to that. Unless they want to start buying and sending me MP charms via the Postbox, too bad. Those things cost RL money in large chunks.
I also do all my Spiritual Cultivation quests first because I've found there are things I cannot do until I reach higher levels of awareness (this is also true in real life, as I'm learning in a college sociology class.)
This post is not going to be 'good advice' by most players standards, but hey, I'm having fun doing it my way, and that's what matters most to me. This is a GAME - never forget.
- Faithera

oh yeah, I also keep this place strictly non-drama. If someone kill-steals my almost dead monsters, I politely ask them if they know what kill stealing is. If they don't, I politely explain KSing, and say no hard feelings, and ask if they want to Squad, explaining that too. If they did already know about KSing and refuse to squad, then I just teleport elsewhere so they can't follow me around.

truekossy

You can play the game using default 1* weapons and armors just fine.

Is it as enjoyable as playing with better quality gears? I'm sure a majority would say no.

So yes you can do it, but unless you have a large amount of time invested in-game and are willing to handicap/challenge yourself somewhat in methods used to sustain yourself (For all the pople suggesting apoc stuff, remember that you can't use those while runnibg skills such as BB or barrage) then you probably will not find it as fun.

If, on the other hand, you don't mind doing so, then you'll find many things quite possibly even more enjoyable than before, as well as refine your skills with your characters as you'd be unable to use some of the normal methods for doing things (and you'd have to learn to be prepared or be good at improvising for if/when things go wrong).

Yuufa - Heavens Tear

Faithera - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I. My V/S/M/D levels are nearly equal and only a slightly higher on magic, which I now know is unusual for clerics, but hey, each to their own.
.

V/S/M/D your stats? why equal? yea i know you say each to their own. Its unusual and usually suicidal too if i may be so blunt. Mag and some vit are the only beneficial stats for an arcane cleric (str of gear use which is low) you gain little or no benifit from any other stat.. for Light Armour clerics str/dex is needed for using ur gears, and the rest should be in mag.

Magic stat gains you almost everything a cleric needs, offensively and defensively and supportively.

Not being mean or trying to be mean here, in fact im trying to be nice and save you a reroll or at the least a restat later on. Continue on keeping every stat even like this the result will be you wont do enough damage to enemy, ur heals will not compensate in healing for damage taken. you will have a tiny mana pool.