90s for those neither charming nor refined

malixdark

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also, charms are not that expensive. Assuming the 100k-150k per hour slow grinding, it would take them 1-2 hours to get enough to buy a bronze charm, 6-7 hours to get a gold one. In addition, hp/mp food is dirt cheap, and, at current prices, far more cost effective.

The problem here is 6 to 7 hours is a lot. Considering a player might play 2-3 hours a day and half of that time might be spent playing in the instances they bought the charm to help with.

On top of that, when you spend your entire time grinding cash to buy one item, you leave yourself short on other ingame items such as equips, weapons, fees like repairs/cs/bhwine, vanity items like fashion (after all it's a game for fun and it's not much fun having no vanity items whatsoever)

I agree hp/mp food is far more cost effective and in most cases just as good. But with gold at 500k, charms really aren't cheap.

Tequila_wolf - Heavens Tear

it kinda depends what situations we are taliking about
i play a barb, and am hardly ever hp charmed
but i do use silver mp charms. a silver mp charm normally lasts me around a week and a half

my wife is a cleric and she never uses mp charms, she prefers to use apoc pots. she does keep an hp charm on, which is gold, this lasts her 2-3 weeks before needing another

it is possible to play without charms but it does help to have some refining done, but not alot needed as i can see

Mycerinus - Harshlands

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also, charms are not that expensive. Assuming the 100k-150k per hour slow grinding, it would take them 1-2 hours to get enough to buy a bronze charm, 6-7 hours to get a gold one. In addition, hp/mp food is dirt cheap, and, at current prices, far more cost effective.

um what do you mean charms aren't expensive? over 1 mil for a charm is total BS. You obviously have never played a BM/Barb much. Charms sure don't last a long time ><. Also not to be rude but WHEN is the last time you have seen someone selling a BRONZE charm >_>.

edit : grinding with a melee class has a hefty repair bill sometimes( i haven't played my 7x Bm in weeks :<)

Yuufa - Heavens Tear

Lypiphera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

... Should you make your party members who have charms suffer because you don't want to spend the money? No, gtfo.

THIS, bravo. I am not lvl 90 yet but just recently i had the experence of playing TT with a veno in the group that used a HP charm, but did minimal damage on bosses (due to conserving mana to prevent running out of mana, and when she did she meditated lmao DURING the boss fight) and at one time had the gall to say "sorry m using a HP charm so i dont use3 soul infuse, i dont want to tick my charm)... ME standing there in BB on watching my MP charm ticking away, while this penny pinching VENO is making the whole process take longer

Correct me if im wrong here, but arnt veno's easily more capable of making money to pay charm costs than clerics are? Unless of course you will tell me "but clerics get 3rd pick of the loot", and so what, i get 2 TT mats that i can sell for maybe 200k each.. fine that covers my charm cost IF i can sell it, but mostly i used the mats to make my gear.

Anfd then therse poeple that say "just grind for DQ mats to sell for coins" sure ill do thsat, but wait ive still got MP charm from all the TT ive run, while grinding that WILL tick on every other mob i kill. so grinding i can cut even on the cost of that charm.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Mycerinus - Harshlands wrote: »

um what do you mean charms aren't expensive? over 1 mil for a charm is total BS. You obviously have never played a BM/Barb much. Charms sure don't last a long time ><. Also not to be rude but WHEN is the last time you have seen someone selling a BRONZE charm >_>.

edit : grinding with a melee class has a hefty repair bill sometimes( i haven't played my 7x Bm in weeks :<)

1mil is not that expensive, however it is also not cheap. Since there are alternatives as good, as Tequila pointed out, the price for the charm is comparable to other luxary items, such as fashion.

The reason most people do not sell bronze charms is because gold charms used to be dirt cheap and it was not worth to sell bronze.
I am sure if you WC Want to Buy bronze HP charm, that you will get pms back with offers to sell. It is all about demand, create a demand, and the supply will show up.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Yuufa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Correct me if im wrong here, but arnt veno's easily more capable of making money to pay charm costs than clerics are? .

You are wrong. A Cleric can AOE grind on spiders or other poison mobs and have ZERO repair bill except for the magic weapon. In addition they drop nice stuff that you can sell.

Also, you do not need a charm as a cleric. You should be able to keep a BB for the duration of a fight without a problem without a charm.

However, what you described was jsut wrong, no matter if the veno had charm or not. If you do not want to use your charm (which you do not need to have), you need to be prepared anyway. That veno obviously was not prepared with apoc pots and mp/hp food, which is what we have been advocating as alternatives for charms.

In addition, she obviously did not know how to play her class. She should had been able to use transfusion right before her MP got to 50%, therefore not ticking her charm. The cooldown on transfusion is fast enough that she would be able to just keep doing that as needed and maybe have to use 1 level 60 HP pot every time.

(sorry about the double post... )

Coraline - Lost City

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just confirming...

2 hours of grind will yield roughly 800k-1.5 mil in drops? b:shocked

Maybe if you zhen or aoe grind. I could only make 200k solo at fishes when I would grind there for an hour...100k in coins and about 100k in dqs and gear

Yuufa - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You are wrong. A Cleric can AOE grind on spiders or other poison mobs and have ZERO repair bill except for the magic weapon. In addition they drop nice stuff that you can sell.

Also, you do not need a charm as a cleric. You should be able to keep a BB for the duration of a fight without a problem without a charm.

However, what you described was jsut wrong, no matter if the veno had charm or not. If you do not want to use your charm (which you do not need to have), you need to be prepared anyway. That veno obviously was not prepared with apoc pots and mp/hp food, which is what we have been advocating as alternatives for charms.

In addition, she obviously did not know how to play her class. She should had been able to use transfusion right before her MP got to 50%, therefore not ticking her charm. The cooldown on transfusion is fast enough that she would be able to just keep doing that as needed and maybe have to use 1 level 60 HP pot every time.

(sorry about the double post... )

I thankyou for the feedback, i even after all these lvls am unaware of the spider mobs you have spoken off. I assume its the zhen mob they talk about when they say "spiders". On the account i have been denied several zhan parties based on my lvl i assumed it was "too hard" therefore didnt imagine solo them.

I do like having a charm, i do not like spending hours farming mats to make apoth, i know of sesami and i carry a large suppy but thats cost effective during these events. My charm is ages old, ive been 80 for a month now. I dont play very much, with the gold prices as they are ive lost motivation to play, when i do want to play its more difficult to find a group for TT. blah blah excuse excuse.

End of story ive lost a lot of love for PW with what these sales have done, and the resulting impact on the game play, and on the loss of friends who i USED to zhen with regularly back in the mid - late 70's.

wingedman

I am a SAGE cleric and ever since I've played this game (which I started last year), I have only consumed at least 3 Gold HP charms. I have used 2 BRONZE MP charms (during the early wars between NEF and LG) and ever since those event food came out, I've never used an MP charm again.

I use HP pots and MP pots. Ironheart + HP pot + plume shell + MP food = 1 bad a** cleric (don't forget the 79 skills and apothecary powder power, by then you will be invincible but not invisible, that's for the assassin).

Oh and my base stats are:
Vit = 50
Str = 5x
Dex = 6 (by accident)
Mag = Stll adding up...

My equips: I still wear some items way below my lvl.
My refine: ONLY to +2

I AOE grind on poison mobs (which I rarely do now, only during idle time).

Hazardus - Heavens Tear

I very much doubt that clerics can make more coins than a veno aoe grinding. But I know very little of that so thats all I'll say on the subject. I make 150-200k/hour grinding and then spend half of that on repairs. b:laugh

As regards keeping up BB......I've tanked with clerics who were charmless and have kept BB up for over 20mins for most of the time. The 10min 100MP/sec regen and the sesame and MP pots are good. Just requires good co-ordination between team.

Problem is the really nice apoth items (9kMP/30sec for e.g.) cant normally be used while BB is up since they interrupt BB. The problem is totally eliminated if there are two clerics and they take turns casting BB, when one is about to run out the other takes over. If single cleric is running out of MP she needs to announce that shes about to apoth pot. The tank (me) simply invokes and keeps on tanking, till the cleric has recovered almost all MP and can raise BB again.

Heres where having good venos who 'actually know what to do when' comes in handy. Any veno worth her salt knows the importance of chi management and is busy passing sparks about as soon as they are needed.

Regarding the OP, about fun 90+ being poor, charmless and not well refined, I'd have to say it seems like fun times ahead, with a real challenge. Every acheivement you attain will feel 2X as rewarding since you (and your group managed to do it w/o the 'training wheels' b:chuckle).
But it really depends on the group. A bunch of cry babies going 'waa! you almost let me die, and ticked my charm, you are so fail' doesn't help having much fun even when everyone has charms equipped. b:angry

I think with a good group of friends, doing stuff together, wining together and get wiped together can be more fun than anything thus far. b:victory

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Hazardus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I very much doubt that clerics can make more coins than a veno aoe grinding. But I know very little of that so thats all I'll say on the subject. I make 150-200k/hour grinding and then spend half of that on repairs. b:laugh

As regards keeping up BB......I've tanked with clerics who were charmless and have kept BB up for over 20mins for most of the time. The 10min 100MP/sec regen and the sesame and MP pots are good. Just requires good co-ordination between team.

Problem is the really nice apoth items (9kMP/30sec for e.g.) cant normally be used while BB is up since they interrupt BB. The problem is totally eliminated if there are two clerics and they take turns casting BB, when one is about to run out the other takes over. If single cleric is running out of MP she needs to announce that shes about to apoth pot. The tank (me) simply invokes and keeps on tanking, till the cleric has recovered almost all MP and can raise BB again.

Heres where having good venos who 'actually know what to do when' comes in handy. Any veno worth her salt knows the importance of chi management and is busy passing sparks about as soon as they are needed.

Regarding the OP, about fun 90+ being poor, charmless and not well refined, I'd have to say it seems like fun times ahead, with a real challenge. Every acheivement you attain will feel 2X as rewarding since you (and your group managed to do it w/o the 'training wheels' b:chuckle).
But it really depends on the group. A bunch of cry babies going 'waa! you almost let me die, and ticked my charm, you are so fail' doesn't help having much fun even when everyone has charms equipped.

I think with a good group of friends, doing stuff together, wining together and get wiped together can be more fun than anything thus far. b:victory

Best post so far!

b:surrender just many peeps dont and wont try sumthing like cause its too much work, so easier to put a charm lol.

MyuMyu - Harshlands

run out of HP/MP? sit then.

don't want to sit? as lv9x, just grind on lv6x mob :P lolol
your HP wont drop much.

no pain, no gain.

also, you can play the game with your real life friend and make a Team.
one is Healer, one is Attacker.

you won't need charm then.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

I dont think refined gear and weapon is a MUST. Altho its VERY useful.
Charms are another story tho expecially HP... some higher lvl instances hit you for so hard you cant handle manually. Say warsong bosses for instance...

Quilue - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I dont think refined gear and weapon is a MUST. Altho its VERY useful.
Charms are another story tho expecially HP... some higher lvl instances hit you for so hard you cant handle manually. Say warsong bosses for instance...

well for warsong apparently you'd want a lot of raw hp...so refines is kind of important. (ish why Astypoo won't take me, among other reasons... b:sad)

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

well for warsong apparently you'd want a lot of raw hp...so refines is kind of important. (ish why Astypoo won't take me, among other reasons... b:sad)

*coughbarragecough*

Foxx - Heavens Tear

Yuufa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I thankyou for the feedback, i even after all these lvls am unaware of the spider mobs you have spoken off.

No, the zhen spiders are melee only (as are all zhen mobs) and very bad for a cleric to kill solo (They are in the plains SE of 1k). The spiders that a cleric can solo aoe grind on are poison ranged mobs (as are all cleric solo aoe mobs) and reside NE of 1k just to the east of a lake.

Yuufa - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, the zhen spiders are melee only (as are all zhen mobs) and very bad for a cleric to kill solo (They are in the plains SE of 1k). The spiders that a cleric can solo aoe grind on are poison ranged mobs (as are all cleric solo aoe mobs) and reside NE of 1k just to the east of a lake.

Again tyvm. evn though i have been 80 for a mth now, i havent done anything near 1k. Im an idle 80, for reasons ive already stated

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

I would like to give my thanx to everyone for their responses, except for Waterboy.

So it seems that there are a few instances that my faction members cannot do, due to low HP / no charm.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Unless your friends have no clue how to play this game, I really do not see why they would be having problem now.

CS items were never needed to play the game, they just make the game easier. I guess they will have to learn how to play now that they are high level.

A few things that will help.
Always grab herbs, all kinds.
Use Apoc pots. They are wonderful.
Use your genie and decom crappy gear to feed it.

I have done TTs and Frost and even RBs with clerics and tanks that were charmless, it just took some coordination to get all the apoc pots needed and people need to think a little more, since they will not longer be able to get away with pulling a Leeroy Jenkins on a group of mobs.

PS - and yes, the cleric will be a tad busier with rezes... make sure you don't **** him off too much.

as a veno you might not need a charm for anything and everything, but that doesn't apply to other classes. unless a veno tanks in tt, s/he doesn't need a charm, and even then pots will easily cover the heal cost. frosts is a bit iffy and death will result without charm (or well timed pots), but a charm is still suggested. and your rb experience is from gamma only. then again, delta veno doesn't really do much except collect beans, no tank no aggro no anything. fyi, a fully geared charmless 100 dd can and will drop in wave 2.

Brab - Lost City

If you are neither charming nor refined, I suggest you read Miss Manner's daily newspaper column, it may help.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Brab - Lost City wrote: »

If you are neither charming nor refined, I suggest you read Miss Manner's daily newspaper column, it may help.

I am glad someone noticed

Ussichu - Sanctuary

Frost can be done charmless quite easily with a 90 team. However a frost run with one cleric that doesn't have a HP charm will be quite difficult as 2 bosses are gonna **** over the cleric if he/she doesn't pump into HP too much (my wife with 4k buffed HP needs an HP charm, granted just a bronze, to solo heal Frost)