Sage Vs. Demon
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DrowsEdge - Heavens Tear
Posts: 69 Arc User
I saw skills on etacomb, I need help deciding which path to go. I am an Axer BM, All my axe skills are maxed. Demon looks awesome for dmg with skills. But overall Sage looks to be better. What is the difference between demon and sage BM sparks?
What's your thoughts and path you will go on, please send some feedback! thank you!
What's your thoughts and path you will go on, please send some feedback! thank you!
Post edited by DrowsEdge - Heavens Tear on
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I will start with that I went Demon.
But I have a question to ask before going on. Why is it your opinion that overall Sage looks better?Retired
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Basicly as a axer demon path is pretty damn nice , itll raise your max stun duration by 2 secs bringing it up to 17.5 secs and bell is sweet too double def buff for 15 secs. Sage is basicly all damage increases so its really up to you.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Everything is based on mind, is led by mind, is fashioned by mind. If you speak and act with a pure mind, happiness will follow you, as a shadow clings to a form.0 -
DrowsEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »I saw skills on etacomb, I need help deciding which path to go. I am an Axer BM, All my axe skills are maxed. Demon looks awesome for dmg with skills. But overall Sage looks to be better. What is the difference between demon and sage BM sparks?
What's your thoughts and path you will go on, please send some feedback! thank you!
If you're pure axe then you might want to consider going sage. However the majority of demon skills are better for pvp. Sage advantages for an axe bm are: Axe mastery, Alter Marrow Physical, Highland Cleave, Aeolian Blade, Roar of the Pride (debatable).
But yeah Demon Drake Bash and Heaven's Flame are far superior. Demon Aura+Alter Marrow Magical can be combo'd for great def all around. Drake Sweep is much better demon, same with fan of flames. Diamond Sutra is much better demon, same with drake's ray. And personally I prefer Demon Spark, the extra atk speed is really nice.
Oh yeah I went demon because I'm axe/fist hybrid and I like to PvP.0 -
The reason I said Sage overall looks better is because of the Axe Mastery for one, I saw in AH it actually increases dmg to 100% not 90%, don't know why, but it's just for axes. Also it gives a 15% boost to your aura, which really helps your pt. The last thing I saw for sage was Diamond Sutra, when Diamond Sutra is active you gain a MASSIVE crit %, I think it's like 10% or 20%. Demon on the other hand has enhanced stun times, dmg for fissure that reduces fire resistance, heavens flame which smacks a chitload of fire damage and lasts longer. Idk, Demon seems stronger for some skills. But sage seems to have better defensive tactics. What is the difference between demon and sage sparks? anyone know? someone told me demon makes you attack faster, while sage makes you take alot less damage.0
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well, imo sage all around is better...the stuns in demon seem really good until they came out with genies that can just anti stun...
as far as the difference between the sage and demon spark go
they both give like 300 percent more physical attack ,Sage adds 15% Damage redcution and demon adds 15% attack speed
so imo the sage spark is better for a melle class cuz whats the point in the increase in attack speed? in pvp u spark and ur a bm , and the person is just going to run anyway so its pointless.i use my triple spark for deffense honestly0 -
The lvl 59 spark is 300% more physical attack. Level 89 is 500%. Sage is 25% dmg reduction, demon is 25% faster attack. It's already not recommended to spark for offense power due to runners; sage sparking for defense is even worse. All that chi wasted for 12 secs where they back away from you? What will you stun them with to stop them kiting, the 2 good ones require chi.
Demon Sutra is the one listed as being 10% crit boost, sage has a chance for extra healing. Haven't seen either one in AH yet to verify, so going off of ecatomb right now.
Axe mastery damage is not a straight 15% boost. It is only part of your total damage, and 15% only works as if you had an extra 22.5 str. That is the whole sum of its usefulness.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
DrowsEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »The reason I said Sage overall looks better is because of the Axe Mastery for one, I saw in AH it actually increases dmg to 100% not 90%, don't know why, but it's just for axes. Also it gives a 15% boost to your aura, which really helps your pt. The last thing I saw for sage was Diamond Sutra, when Diamond Sutra is active you gain a MASSIVE crit %, I think it's like 10% or 20%. Demon on the other hand has enhanced stun times, dmg for fissure that reduces fire resistance, heavens flame which smacks a chitload of fire damage and lasts longer. Idk, Demon seems stronger for some skills. But sage seems to have better defensive tactics. What is the difference between demon and sage sparks? anyone know? someone told me demon makes you attack faster, while sage makes you take alot less damage.
Axe mastery only gives boost of 90%. The one you saw was probably for barbarians which is 100%. Also Demon Aura gives 75% pdef + another 75% pdef boost for 15 seconds, so it actually gives more pdef if you spam it. Demon Diamond sutra gives 10% increase to crit, sage one just gives a chance to heal more.
Difference between sparks is sage spark has 25% dmg reduction, demon spark gives 25% atk spd boost.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »The lvl 59 spark is 300% more physical attack. Level 89 is 500%. Sage is 25% dmg reduction, demon is 25% faster attack. It's already not recommended to spark for offense power due to runners; sage sparking for defense is even worse. All that chi wasted for 12 secs where they back away from you? What will you stun them with to stop them kiting, the 2 good ones require chi.
Demon Sutra is the one listed as being 10% crit boost, sage has a chance for extra healing. Haven't seen either one in AH yet to verify, so going off of ecatomb right now.
Axe mastery damage is not a straight 15% boost. It is only part of your total damage, and 15% only works as if you had an extra 22.5 str. That is the whole sum of its usefulness.
It is very possible to keep someone held in place while using demon spark provided that they don't use anti-stun pots. If chi is an issue then use a 2-spark chi pot? I've used this tactic a couple times and at least in my experience it works pretty well. Of course this is assuming they dont use an anti stun pot, but you can keep them frozen in place for at least 12 seconds after spark goes off. The issue is that purely using stun isn't reliable as stun effects cancel each other out, giving people time to kite away during the small breaks in between each stun. So as long as you alternate different types of movement restrictions, ex. stun->freeze->stun, using each one before the previous one runs out, it shouldn't be an issue.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Demon Sutra is the one listed as being 10% crit boost, sage has a chance for extra healing. Haven't seen either one in AH yet to verify, so going off of ecatomb right now.
I can confirm that you get +10% crit for 15s with dark heal0 -
i am a sage bm i use fists/axe the extra def from the bell and added dmg from the masteries is better then the stuns demon gives so i am way more for sage then demon.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ty Nowitsawn
Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »The lvl 59 spark is 300% more physical attack. Level 89 is 500%. Sage is 25% dmg reduction, demon is 25% faster attack. It's already not recommended to spark for offense power due to runners; sage sparking for defense is even worse. All that chi wasted for 12 secs where they back away from you? What will you stun them with to stop them kiting, the 2 good ones require chi.
Demon Sutra is the one listed as being 10% crit boost, sage has a chance for extra healing. Haven't seen either one in AH yet to verify, so going off of ecatomb right now.
Axe mastery damage is not a straight 15% boost. It is only part of your total damage, and 15% only works as if you had an extra 22.5 str. That is the whole sum of its usefulness.
ya..lol i meant 500% xDD0 -
Im an axe / sword build, b:surrender still few levels to go but very confused of what to choose, I read all the posts before this one and still cannot make up my mind lol0
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DrowsEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »I saw skills on etacomb, I need help deciding which path to go. I am an Axer BM, All my axe skills are maxed. Demon looks awesome for dmg with skills. But overall Sage looks to be better. What is the difference between demon and sage BM sparks?
What's your thoughts and path you will go on, please send some feedback! thank you!
if its better for u than go sage : ))
i went sage for more chi, bell, farstrike, mastery.
i only feel sry for heavens at 99, drake bash, and aoe stun. even if sage aoe stun is nice too.Nullum crimen sine lege.0 -
I went demon. I examined the skills and since I party a lot with friends I felt the demon skills would bring an added edge to my team. The skills I use most; I've found that i like the demon skill affects more then the sage. I use all weapons. Primarily Axe/Fist.
Mastery's - Demon (I have 6% added crit from gear already another 1% plus 15% more damage just rocks)
sage gives you 90% nice but I would rather have the extra crit chance because of my build.
Heaven Flame Demon - increases amp by 50% (sage gets fire damage...I can totally do without that)
Drakes bash - Demon An extra 1.5 seconds.
sage -Better than a chance not to use spark. Rather have the reliable extra time,
Roar of the Pride - Demon version never fails. and shorter cooldown I just love this skill. I have it already, And its just so nice.
Sage reduces chi cost whoopee.
Draw Blood - Demon you do more damage over time then sage.
Swork and Spear ulitmate get good added effects after use with demon.
Sage you have a chance to save a spark whoopee.
Demon Spark increases my attack rate & weapon damage allowing me to open up hard with my fists so I get most aggro and can maintain while fighting a boss.
Sage Spark reduces damage. ( i have sword ultimate for that.)
There are a few others i like like meteor rush buts that's all i have to say about skills right now.
In summary I chose demon because it suited my build and playing style.Retired
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you're mistaken zero. dark dragon = duration of amp 50% longer, not 50% more damage0
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AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Heaven Flame Demon - increases amp by 50% (sage gets fire damage...I can totally do without that)
I think it just a miss communication on my part. I should have said amp duration. Which is what I meant. Thanks for pointing out my poor writing skills. b:chuckleRetired
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AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »sage gives you 90% nice but I would rather have the extra crit chance because of my build.
sage -Better than a chance not to use spark. Rather have the reliable extra time,
Sage reduces chi cost whoopee.
Draw Blood - Demon you do more damage over time then sage.
Swork and Spear ulitmate get good added effects after use with demon.
Sage you have a chance to save a spark whoopee.
i quoted some things about sage
1. the extra dmg is gonna make up for the crit plus you will probably do more dmg.
2 and 3. Bms are based on chi all our good skills use them
4. sage gives you an extra 15% dmg each burn so how can demon give you more dmg?
5. you have a chance to save a spark thus casting it more times.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ty Nowitsawn
Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.0 -
Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »i quoted some things about sage
1. the extra dmg is gonna make up for the crit plus you will probably do more dmg.
2 and 3. Bms are based on chi all our good skills use them
4. sage gives you an extra 15% dmg each burn so how can demon give you more dmg?
5. you have a chance to save a spark thus casting it more times.
1.) I have a crit equipment set up. I like the crit. The extra damage i'm not concerned about. I want the spike with the crit.
2.)Yes
4.) Do the math; per second Draw blood does more damage. And then you reuse.
5.)You can't cast a skill when its in cool down. I play with 1-3 veno's almost all the time. I have plenty of chi with them. Also my fists are my secondary weapon. If I enter a boss fight with all chi. I can use Heavens Flame right after cool down even without veno's lending hand skill.Retired
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AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »1.) I have a crit equipment set up. I like the crit. The extra damage i'm not concerned about. I want the spike with the crit.
2.)Yes
4.) Do the math; per second Draw blood does more damage. And then you reuse.
5.)You can't cast a skill when its in cool down. I play with 1-3 veno's almost all the time. I have plenty of chi with them. Also my fists are my secondary weapon. If I enter a boss fight with all chi. I can use Heavens Flame right after cool down even without veno's lending hand skill.
ok how many bms are gonna have 1-3 venos with them and if they do have venos they are sparking the barb not the bm 1% crit isnt gonna add that much dmg so sage is way better.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ty Nowitsawn
Everything has its beginnings, but it doesn't start at one. It starts long before that... The world is born From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes 2. 2 becomes 10. 10 becomes 100. taking it all back to one solves nothing. so long as zero remains... One.. Will eventually grow to 100 again.0 -
it takes me about 9 seconds to get enough vigor to use heaven flames, assuming I hit nonstop.0
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Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »ok how many bms are gonna have 1-3 venos with them and if they do have venos they are sparking the barb not the bm 1% crit isnt gonna add that much dmg so sage is way better.
Why do people keep quoting 15% damage, it really messes it up for new people playing the game thinking it actually means 15% more damage.
With 3 str per lvl, 15% damage boost going sage over demon only boosts damage by 4%. This is base only, and without any strength adds. Using skills, and any increases in str from higher level or adds from eq (such as TT90) reduce the amount of damage sage has over demon. So you're looking at maybe 3% or less when using skills. While somewhat nice, it should not be held as a good reason to go sage over demon. And if they raise level cap, sage will just be worse and worse as people level up. At least demon is a constant that can be counted on to always be useful.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Why do people keep quoting 15% damage, it really messes it up for new people playing the game thinking it actually means 15% more damage.
With 3 str per lvl, 15% damage boost going sage over demon only boosts damage by 4%. This is base only, and without any strength adds. Using skills, and any increases in str from higher level or adds from eq (such as TT90) reduce the amount of damage sage has over demon. So you're looking at maybe 3% or less when using skills. While somewhat nice, it should not be held as a good reason to go sage over demon. And if they raise level cap, sage will just be worse and worse as people level up. At least demon is a constant that can be counted on to always be useful.
sage axe adds 90% of total damage....the 15% just adds onto the 75%....which is still 15% not 4% like your telling everyone....the extra 1% crit is not in comparison with 15% added damage...AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »1.) I have a crit equipment set up. I like the crit. The extra damage i'm not concerned about. I want the spike with the crit.
2.)Yes
4.) Do the math; per second Draw blood does more damage. And then you reuse.
5.)You can't cast a skill when its in cool down. I play with 1-3 veno's almost all the time. I have plenty of chi with them. Also my fists are my secondary weapon. If I enter a boss fight with all chi. I can use Heavens Flame right after cool down even without veno's lending hand skill.
draw blood? warriors use that o.O what a waste of time to use a skill like that. and using heavens flame constant is impossible as a hell warrior unless you dont use roar of pride-drake bash. chi pots are a must as well.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
15% damage may add up to.. maybe, 100~200 more total damage. fun stuff. then you get end game and it adds up to 25~50 because every robed class has more pdef than warriors.sage axe adds 90% of total damage....the 15% just adds onto the 75%....which is still 15% not 4% like your telling everyone....the extra 1% crit is not in comparison with 15% added damage...
remember when I said I get 2 fury in about 9 seconds? fist/axe wr at your service sir. I get far more vigor a minute than your 60s skill will ever offer.and using heavens flame constant is impossible as a hell warrior unless you dont use roar of pride-drake bash. chi pots are a must as well.0 -
since when do enemies stand there and let you hit them for vigor.....every class i fight against kites away b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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and about the mage with more pdef than warrior....yes later in the game this is true. but with heaven marrow...ill have more magic defense than an arcane mageb:pleased..this isnt comparing crit with +15%....stays the same when pdef goes up...crits arent as high either...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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It's 90% of basic atk. With 272 str (enough to use gx), the 15% more bonus is like 5% more of total atk.sage axe adds 90% of total damage....the 15% just adds onto the 75%....which is still 15% not 4% like your telling everyone....the extra 1% crit is not in comparison with 15% added damage...0 -
I hit 2.22/s with my cyclone kick. in the 6s time of an average stun I've hit 10 times, no less. 5 vigor per hit = 50 vigorby the time I stun again. my vigor goes down, but it goes down a lot slower than you think it would be.0
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sage axe adds 90% of total damage....the 15% just adds onto the 75%....which is still 15% not 4% like your telling everyone....the extra 1% crit is not in comparison with 15% added damage...
draw blood? warriors use that o.O what a waste of time to use a skill like that. and using heavens flame constant is impossible as a hell warrior unless you dont use roar of pride-drake bash. chi pots are a must as well.
I think maybe you didn't read my post correctly.
I will first reply to your draw blood statement. Its a great opener when establishing aggro when fighting a boss or mobs that like to run(yes i do stun). I have demon version. Its nice.
Second no its not impossible. If you read my post I said "If I enter a boss fight with all chi. I can use Heavens Flame right after cool down even without veno's lending hand skill."
So yes I can. And no I won't be using roar or drakes bash. That would be a waste of chi. Since boss's are immune to stun.Retired
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AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think maybe you didn't read my post correctly.
I will first reply to your draw blood statement. Its a great opener when establishing aggro when fighting a boss or mobs that like to run(yes i do stun). I have demon version. Its nice.
Second no its not impossible. If you read my post I said "If I enter a boss fight with all chi. I can use Heavens Flame right after cool down even without veno's lending hand skill."
So yes I can. And no I won't be using roar or drakes bash. That would be a waste of chi. Since boss's are immune to stun.
hahahhah oh wow, i see you are from heavens tear server. always comparing skills vs mobs b:chuckle i dont pve anymore bud, just pvp[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
hahahhah oh wow, i see you are from heavens tear server. always comparing skills vs mobs b:chuckle i dont pve anymore bud, just pvp
I'm sorry but I don't know what you find to be so funny. The fact of the matter is whether or not you go sage or demon. If you are going to continue to play the game you have to take into consideration all the variables when choosing your path. These include PvE, RB, TT, PvP, TW, etc..etc... I don't just tunnel vision on one path. b:pleasedRetired
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