Arcane VS L.A. ONCE AND FOR ALL!

Darkfas - Harshlands

PvE:
Arcane all the way

PvP:
If very rich, good refined/sharded Arcane all the way
If normal and you're not just a carebear, LA till 90 and then Arcane (vit depending on gear)

Watched a TW at my friend's place yday (he's 78) and the Arcane Mages died like flies while he could tank at least one bm or barb 10 levels higher than him. Granted, his average hits were below the other mages, though not by that much and it's better to get off 2 spells than dying after the first one anyway

Cryxtal - Sanctuary

A stupid thread in my opinion. Cause theres nvr gonna be an ending battle between which is best cause theres no fixed answer.

And u can try ur best to make this the last discussion , but million bucks on the table it wont be.

In almost everygame we got stupid ppl asking stupid questions like this, "Which is the best build" , but only people who really have experience in MMORPGS know that , a situation like this, LA vs Arcane, will nvr have a last stand on either side of the fence.

EmiliaGray - Lost City

Darkfas - Harshlands wrote: »

PvE:
Arcane all the way

PvP:
If very rich, good refined/sharded Arcane all the way
If normal and you're not just a carebear, LA till 90 and then Arcane (vit depending on gear)

Watched a TW at my friend's place yday (he's 78) and the Arcane Mages died like flies while he could tank at least one bm or barb 10 levels higher than him. Granted, his average hits were below the other mages, though not by that much and it's better to get off 2 spells than dying after the first one anyway

awesome awesome this is what i like to know.

EmiliaGray - Lost City

Cryxtal - Sanctuary wrote: »

A stupid thread in my opinion. Cause theres nvr gonna be an ending battle between which is best cause theres no fixed answer.

And u can try ur best to make this the last discussion , but million bucks on the table it wont be.

In almost everygame we got stupid ppl asking stupid questions like this, "Which is the best build" , but only people who really have experience in MMORPGS know that , a situation like this, LA vs Arcane, will nvr have a last stand on either side of the fence.

well said. I guess it's just how you wanna play and all. thank you all for posting

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

EmiliaGray - Lost City wrote: »

well said. I guess it's just how you wanna play and all. thank you all for posting

Good luck. b:laugh

AztecDemon - Lost City

even if you are light armour doesnt mean u cant use arcane armour. so u lose some attack for some more hits from phsical attacks which every class in the game can do. also wizards skills seem to be less dependant on the matk. alot of the skills are good because of the +500% attack or whatever. so you dont really lose alot of attack power. im still experimenting with my mage and from the looks of it i might just stay LA

Isala - Sanctuary

Elrond - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also 700 defense will make a difference even if the present does not go up. PWI does not use incremental damage reduction, look around on the forums or test it out yourself if you don't believe me.

Also notice in Cholla's post that the greater the % the more damage you can take, this does not improve linearly.

This is why a vit build will have better defense then a LA build.

So robes vs LA... im gonna add 2 other builds into the mix for your consiteration. Vit Robes, and HA/robes mix

Vit - http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8e67cff28ff5b92e (better deffence then LA, slightly worse damage)

and HA - http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5c00f0626ac18ed4 - better pdef and worse mdef then vit, about the same damage.

if your goal is to survive until you can drop a ultimate on someone/hordes of ppl consiter these ^_^
light/vit/HA does about 89% of the damage a pure would do for casting ultimates (earth/water), and 82% for gush.

I'm one of those HA/AA Wizards, and it does do what it's supposed to. Take a beating. Anytime I end up getting a group of melee mobs on me, I just say **** it, pop an HP pot, and DB until they die. Casters are also no big deal. Put on robes, blast away, Morning Dew when I'm done.

Honestly? There is no BEST build. Arcane has its power, LA has its power, Vit, and HA have theirs. What you do instead of asking "What is Best?" is ask "What is best for the way I want to play?" Which means, you actually have to plan out how you want to play, and THEN build yourself around it.

Do you want to blast anything that moves with ungodly high constant damage? Roll Pure. Want to see a bunch of Crits? Roll LA. Want to get the **** beat out of you, and still blow things up? Roll Vit or HA/AA. Once you answer that question, ask again for advice. At least one of us will have made that decision, and run with it.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

blackcid4 wrote: »

Arcane is the only way, Wizard LA aren't useful, low attack, low magic defense, low life, medium fisical defense.

There are only two ways and all are arcane:

Full atack wizard (full mag), superatack, super magical defense, medium-low phisical defense, bad life.

Hibrid wizard (vit and mag), good atack, medium life, good magical defense, medium-low physical defense.

my pdef is 5k self buffed. i can 2 shot arcanes my level. i have 3k hp and my gear is ****. my mag def is 5k ish unbuffed. I haven't died in TW in months. I can take on 2 9x BMs and kill one before dying. How am i useless again?

Satuki - Harshlands

blackcid4 wrote: »

Arcane is the only way, Wizard LA aren't useful, low attack, low magic defense, low life, medium fisical defense.

There are only two ways and all are arcane:

Full atack wizard (full mag), superatack, super magical defense, medium-low phisical defense, bad life.

Hibrid wizard (vit and mag), good atack, medium life, good magical defense, medium-low physical defense.

though i kinda agree that arcane is better (even if i am LA) LA mages arent bad at all. fully buffed you can tank bm and barbs your lvl, hell even archers too.
arcane is only if you have the money, and lots of it. like HH90 +5 set etc.
vit mages are bad, just be LA mages (same hp imo but more crit)

Ursa - Dreamweaver

now, let's chill.
Mizu, haven't seen you in a TW in months. And I'm pretty sure if we meet face-to-face I can give you that elusive "go to town" option on your screen without much troubles. b:chuckle.
A cleric that knows how to fight you will drop you in 2 shots, and the second shot will be overkill. Remember Nrgy? Try to fight him next time u see him around.
Clerics don't have anything to absorb magic dmg, but they have high magic resitance. 2 shotting a cleric your lvl with decent gear without a crit I say is bull****.
A tipical cleric at 83 has about 3.4k HP and I don't think u can pull out 1.7k/hit against a cleric unless u spark/nuke/frenzy. And u need 2 of those hits to take him down. Really, u can win a duel or a fight in TW once if u get a "perfect storm" in sync-ing your skills, but those don't come around to often.

As far as BMs and archers go, it's about who can stun who first. I got out of stunlocks alive and I died in stunlocks also, depends on the BM skill. Archers are only a question of landing a seal/sleep, then GG (especially now when I can tripple spark 3 times as often as I was previously able to double spark).

Barbs are a charm **** on both sides until someone crits, lol.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

I havent seen u either. Ask Shino_Kirase, the best cleric on the server, i 2 shot him. Ask Lifestream. Let me get screenshots and you can ask. I was a pure wiz and i know how to beat one.

MD - Harshlands

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

now, let's chill.
Mizu, haven't seen you in a TW in months. And I'm pretty sure if we meet face-to-face I can give you that elusive "go to town" option on your screen without much troubles. b:chuckle.
A cleric that knows how to fight you will drop you in 2 shots, and the second shot will be overkill. Remember Nrgy? Try to fight him next time u see him around.
Clerics don't have anything to absorb magic dmg, but they have high magic resitance. 2 shotting a cleric your lvl with decent gear without a crit I say is bull****.
A tipical cleric at 83 has about 3.4k HP and I don't think u can pull out 1.7k/hit against a cleric unless u spark/nuke/frenzy. And u need 2 of those hits to take him down. Really, u can win a duel or a fight in TW once if u get a "perfect storm" in sync-ing your skills, but those don't come around to often.

As far as BMs and archers go, it's about who can stun who first. I got out of stunlocks alive and I died in stunlocks also, depends on the BM skill. Archers are only a question of landing a seal/sleep, then GG (especially now when I can tripple spark 3 times as often as I was previously able to double spark).

Barbs are a charm **** on both sides until someone crits, lol.

I'm pretty sure if we meet face-to-face I can give you that elusive "go to town" option on your screen without much troubles as well.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I havent seen u either. Ask Shino_Kirase, the best cleric on the server, i 2 shot him. Ask Lifestream. Let me get screenshots and you can ask. I was a pure wiz and i know how to beat one.

I dont even have to atk you, you will die by mobs qq.....LA mage?b:angry

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

now, let's chill.
A cleric that knows how to fight you will drop you in 2 shots, and the second shot will be overkill. Remember Nrgy? Try to fight him next time u see him around.
Clerics don't have anything to absorb magic dmg, but they have high magic resitance. 2 shotting a cleric your lvl with decent gear without a crit I say is bull****.
A tipical cleric at 83 has about 3.4k HP and I don't think u can pull out 1.7k/hit against a cleric unless u spark/nuke/frenzy. And u need 2 of those hits to take him down. Really, u can win a duel or a fight in TW once if u get a "perfect storm" in sync-ing your skills, but those don't come around to often.

Usually your right in all your posts but I have to disagree with you on the cleric > LA wiz part . I won't agree with him on the 2 shoot part unless they are crits, BT + hit,sparked attacks or the cleric has very crappy gears though . But I said it before and I'll say it again , ever since genies came out and after getting undine strike good wiz > good cleric no matter what build , especially if they got sophoric whisper too . You don't need to be 90 + to pwn a cleric ,80 + with 1 or 2,or hell even all 3 (the cleric is gonna get over-owned if you got all 3 though ) is enough. LA wiziez can get heart of steel on genie being totally worth to block metal dmg since 3 classes use it ( 3 since don't think u'll find many bms with no TS ) but I doubt you'll see ppl with a fire/water/earth resist genie since that would mean sacrificing most of your genie usefulness to counter just 1 class . And even like that they might find it hard to keep up with the energy cost of using all 3 .

So what if they stack heals then when they have enough stacked they start their offense ? They heal , you use shrink to escape from their dangerous attacks . If they wanna turn a fight into a healing fest then you can turn it into a distance shrink kitting fest and it'll be never ending.

Paigrande - Harshlands

LA wizard is good till u reach lvl90 where u can get good TT90 gear, but after that LA wizard is jus very bad... As a LA wizard u wont kill any1 90+ only if u hav good weapon refinement (like +8 or more), but if can get your weapon refinement that high u better b arcane wizard nd I guarantee u every1 will say your class is too OP.

P.S. Im saying this cuz Ive fought LA wizards several times nd enough times to know they wouldnt stand a chance against any other class their lvl.

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary

Paigrande - Harshlands wrote: »

LA wizard is good till u reach lvl90 where u can get good TT90 gear, but after that LA wizard is jus very bad... As a LA wizard u wont kill any1 90+ only if u hav good weapon refinement (like +8 or more), but if can get your weapon refinement that high u better b arcane wizard nd I guarantee u every1 will say your class is too OP.

P.S. Im saying this cuz Ive fought LA wizards several times nd enough times to know they wouldnt stand a chance against any other class their lvl.

Totally not true , LA is never a bad build and maybe HA isn't a bad build either . It might not be as good as it's pure counterpart after 90+ and especially as your weapon refine goes higher but it's not that inferior to it either .

LA would even shine over pure in these situations :

- You fight allot in SP against bms and barbs (dreadful place for a wiz , I know :P ).

- You have a big mouth and like to taunt ppl into making them hate and focus fire you allot .

- Your very poor and your weapon refine is total **** , armor too .


LA ain't a bad build even after 90+ , it's just that pure get's better and better , why can't some ppl understand this already ?

Paigrande - Harshlands

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Totally not true , LA is never a bad build and maybe HA ain't a bad build either . It might not be as good as it's pure counterpart after 90+ and especially as your weapon refine goes higher but it's that inferior to it either .

LA ain't a bad build even after 90+ , it's just that pure get's better and better.

Totally not true, theres no way HA wizard is a good build. LA is not bad but its not the best either, best build is pure mag.
Wizards were made to do as much dmg as possible but when u go HA u go from a wizard to a fail wizard, when u go LA endgame u stop being a factor cuz u simply wont b doing as much dmg as wizard should b doing nd even if u hav money to refine your weapon enough to b factor u will never b as good as a pure mag wizard with the same weapon refinement.

Ayano-chan - Sanctuary

Wizards were made to do as much dmg as possible

This is true but zZz....... what's with that fixed mindset ? it's boring . And HA hasn't even been tried out in actual action by good high lvl wiziez yet , at least not by any of the frequent forum users to share the results with the rest ... by just looking at stats it's actually not bad ,it looses in effectiveness to pure the higher the weapon refine is but it's not bad at all .

I actually like ppl who step out of the crowd and are willing to try something new ; as long as it's reasonable ofc . Kudos to all you xD .

u stop being a factor

A good high lvl wiz will always be a factor :P . Those who underestimate them will eventually be surprised .




These type of threads will never stop will they ? ><

Isala - Sanctuary

Paigrande - Harshlands wrote: »

when u go HA u go from a wizard to a fail wizard

Fail wizard, and damn proud of it. Nearly beat a barb my level in a duel without kiting him.

Cbastor - Lost City

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

cash shop item. Mumin try right clicking anyone and try to click show attributes. says something like you don't have the required (cash shop) item.

also if the other guy is LA why is his P def lower? O.o
b:shocked

becuz AA wiz is better then LA , La put HP in armor and AA wiz put phy def (usually)
also imo before 9x LA is better for mages but at 9x go pure AA ,just from personal exp from fighting 9x mages (from my exp LA 9x mages fail)

Cryxtal - Sanctuary

i dun just wanna tank wizzies. I wanna tank bm's , archer's, and clerics plume shots. And for these, LA does just fine

MD - Harshlands

Cryxtal - Sanctuary wrote: »

i dun just wanna tank wizzies. I wanna tank bm's , archer's, and clerics plume shots. And for these, LA does just fine

LA mage tank Robe mage what??? Undine+BT will 1shot you easily.

Robe with +5 armor set and defense shard will make you tank all class to a certain point. But LA.....

CrashmanOl - Dreamweaver

Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »

Ya its abuot the % reduction. Not the actual defense number.

someone could have 700 more defense than me but have the same % reduction. silly huh...

Yeah it is silly, but also if u read the reduction is says for damage delt by the same lvl as u. and i have noticed already that it take s a lot more physical defence as u lvl to keep that % up, not too worried about it though. a smart wizzy doesn 't take damage i'm a pure wizzy and only died 3 times. once cause i had to. once from a lovely comp crash in the middle of the field. and once cause i was bored an d tried to kill a boss solo. b:chuckle

Already i run circles around other LA wizzy's my level and if we ever duel or even fight normally they die due to the fact their magic defence is less than mine. so what they can crit by a few more % then me. just means they have to pay more attention when they do bosses with large groups so they don't pull the boss to them and probably wipe the whole field. And yes i seen that happen.

Another thing i've noticed about LA Wizzy's. Their MP pool is significantly lower then mine with the same gear on. and as u're skills get higher in lvl the more MP u need to use them. My lvling costs are about half if not less then some other LA wizzy's i've run across. Including the repair cost.

Remember no matter what u're still a squishy weither u be LA or Arcane. U should be focusing on how to kill without getting hit if possible. Kiting sucks yes but saves on the grinding cost, and besides even a LA wizzy in TW knows that if they stand still to focus on killing someone too long they dead.

Again though the debate does just boil down to player preference and ability. Some people blay a great LA wizzy others play a great Arcane. In the end figure out what works for u and just do it.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

yar CrashmanOl
kiting sucks so so much~ (T.T)'
It's either I risk dying and drop the mobs in 6-10 seconds. or I kite and take 30 seconds or more just to kill one mob...
Now when theres quests that want me to kill 60 of (random mob)....
it really takes a long time alone. b:sad
b:shocked

Although squading up with someone makes it so sooooo much faster.
b:victory

CrashmanOl - Dreamweaver

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

yar CrashmanOl
kiting sucks so so much~ (T.T)'
It's either I risk dying and drop the mobs in 6-10 seconds. or I kite and take 30 seconds or more just to kill one mob...
Now when theres quests that want me to kill 60 of (random mob)....
it really takes a long time alone. b:sad
b:shocked

Although squading up with someone makes it so sooooo much faster.
b:victory

funny... i drop mobs usually before they even hit me without kiting much. only when my first gush doesn't slow them do i have to kite. and even then it's preference to me. Only the little bosses for DQ do i really have to kite. I prefer soloing them. makes for a fun challenge when your 4 lvls or more lower then them.
And my kiting is usually they are almost on top of me and i use blink and kill them without a scratch to myself. find it funny how a dead mob can still hit you once in a while.

Sargasm - Lost City

I leveled up as Arcane, and found it easy. I noticed people QQing about that. :>
I don't kite much, mobs die before they get to me.
Hybrid and LA builds don't interest me, I enjoy playing glass cannon classes.
I don't spend a lot of cash on gear or pots, I raised alch for it's benefits. PvP below 90 atm doesn't matter to me, and as long as my gear survives in PvE I'm good. b:thanks

Mizzzzz - Sanctuary

well i would always go with pure magic arcane.. no matter what if you cant stay alive with a wizard then its just not your class..if u have to go La then u might wanna be a archer since u seem to like Crits so much lol......btw u can still go pure magic and still have pdef of 6k...just +12 all ur pdef equipts..xD yes i kno my level is only 62 blah blah ive played at mage at lvl 150 and belive they rule everything... except for clerics they seem to be to tough... only till blade tempest them and they fall with one hit rofl!xD

Isala - Sanctuary

CrashmanOl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In the end figure out what works for u and just do it.

I think we all can agree that this sums up the entire argument, and debate right here.

Thirion - Dreamweaver

i'm a lvl 71 wizard (right now), and at lvl 60 i reset to LA from arcane.

my damage reduced by 500 points or so. but my crit chances and damage are increadible (7% crit at the moment.). i get to do tons of 10k damage or 20k damage in a long battle (short ones end too quick to care about crits).

my current (no shards) defense with earth shield stand on 60% damage reduction, while my element stand on the same 60%. my guess is with arcane i would've had 70% or 80%.

and this is a fact i like, that an arcane has to put Pdef and HP shards into his armory, while LA only need to care about HP. so that gives him x2 more hp then Arcane wiz.

and to people who said arcane means more damage in TW, and you'r suppose to do damage, not survive... is like telling a lvl 9x+ veno not to reset to Heavy at lvl 90, because she's suppose to do damage.
its all a matter of taste. but in PVP, survivability is importent, because you cant do damage if an archer catch you. 1 second and you'r 1 shot down. preety much make you useless in that point.

now i wont say LA wizards are more advanced and perfected.. because that would be a lie. turning into LA nerf your wiz potential by 200 points from MAG into strength and dex.
so to make it fair for any choise:

Arcane- pve specialist.
Light Armor- pvp specialist.

that's all to it.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

If at 71 your diference in dmg between LA and Arcane is only 500 you suck. Badly.
7% crit? that sux as LA. An arcane can have that much without much trouble. Look at Mizouni's gear, he has 14% crit. Now that's a real crit rate. He went LA, but at least he built on the only strength a LA wizard has: Crit. Your 7% incredible crit chances and damage makes me lol.

2x more HP because of HP shards? what exactly are you smoking? 60% damage reduction? I have 57% pdef reduction self buffed since lvl 77 as arcane. Your 60% makes me rofl.

Maybe the TW you've been in are some kind of PK fest, everyone running around and killing whoever they can lay their hands on. In TW wizards have specific purposes, fail at that and u fail at everything.

And the last " Arcane- pve specialist. Light Armor- pvp specialist." quote just shows how little you know and understand from this game and your class.

I'm gonna post some good LA and Robe builds a little later , I gotta split for now

Edit:
ok, so I did it quick, refined things that will last for more than 10 lvl to +4 and 4 sockets, the rest only to 3. Whatever u have for more than 10 lvls will get you out of RB Gamma range
arcane one:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6630b37c6db1a487 <- this is basically part of my gear as i remember it.

HP : 3460 Magic Atk. 5481-5547 Pdef 5k 64% reduction
LA one:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=fe5f677de50932b4 - I put the best possible neck and belt

HP: 4047 Magic Atk. 4380-4433 Pdef 5.3k 66% reduction

Now, how come at lvl 70 your dmg diff is only 500 points I have no idea, cause from what I see it's a minimum of 1.1k/hit in PvE, and at 7& crit you won't crit even near enough to compensate for a loss of 1k in damage every 2 seconds. Beside, since all the mobs are magic, arcane build has the luxury to stack some -channel belt and necklace in PvE mode, and that would just increase the gap even bigger.

True, LA has 600 more HP. But advantages are pretty much ending there. And let's not forget, at 77-80 the Arcane gets revamped ( 77 mold sleeves, 77 top or TT80 gold top, TT80 gold boots) and that will decrease the HP diference between builds quite dramatically and increase the dps an arcane is capable of.

Now where I see the benefits of going LA? RB Gamma. High HP, u can start it at 70 and fly to 85 in less than 2 weeks. For that , and that purpose only, I would say go LA, it's worth it. In RB the auras will pretty much cancel your lack of mdef, as it cancels Arcane lack of pdef, and the only diff that remains is HP. More HP less chances to get to 1k on double wave.

Right now my magic attk is 6.4k-7.3k unbuffed and 7k-8.1k buffed. I don't know how much attk a lvl 89 LA wiz has, but I'm quite sure it doesn't jumps over 5.5k at maximum. When I 3 spark I have 16k-17k magic dmg. I would love to see the numbers from a LA wizard.

Disappear - Lost City

I use Arcane..Sure I might die in PvP but at late 6x I get strojnger...and at 7x the real fun begins.

I don't build to get hit, or tank physical attack monsters. If you're building to get hit, roll a werebeast, or Warrior.