Scammer Question For GMs
Comments
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no one said it would be based on their popularity, forum mods weren't assigned their position because of their popularity now were they?FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »Appointed based on in-game popularity? Sweet zombie jesus no way.
It's also possible that they could hire in-game mods the same/similar way they hire the GMs for the game which would greatly reduce the risk of any power abuse or biased selection0 -
The scammer I was reporting had 1 blemished gem in his cowshop. He advertised this in his name with the price. He also had lvl 1 gems for this same price. Of course his defense if caught will be that he was not falsely advertising since he did have the item. Clearly, his intent is to mislead the unaware buyer into assuming that all the gems listed were blemished. There is no reason these should be the same price. However, charging a ridiculous price for an item does not automatically constitute a scam. What makes it a scam is the standard old bait and switch - to promise one item and deliver a different.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Because there are many people who do this, it is the individual's responsibility to be a cautious consumer.
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Use the merchant. It's cheaper anyway.0 -
Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »no one said it would be based on their popularity, forum mods weren't assigned their position because of their popularity now were they?
It's also possible that they could hire in-game mods the same/similar way they hire the GMs for the game which would greatly reduce the risk of any power abuse or biased selection
I apologize, I believe I misread your post. When you said 'player appointed' I thought you meant these mods would be 'elected' by the player base. My bad b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida
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Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's just that we have forum mods, we can just as easily have in-game mods :P
They probably won't have the power to ban of course, but a warning from a mod tends to stop people from doing naughty things
And if the warning does not succeed and the offense is serious enough, then the in-game mod can take necessary action and possibly file a report which goes directly to a GM (with priorities set maybe?), it's definitely better than having random players sending tickets over and over and over and over (only to have them complain on the forum in the end)
I have considered the same thing, Dark. A system of trustworthy volunteer ingame mods would make the GMs job a lot ezer. Obviously they would not have to power to ban or punish. However, their reports to GMs would carry more weight and require less investigation. But I don't know if most players could be trusted to set aside their allegiances to judge objectively and not abuse their trusted rank.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
lol good job bluring the name...i mean i couldnt read it at all....(u wish....it just cant get clearer lol)
and if u do not look at a item be4 buying it ur just lazyb:byeClerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »I apologize, I believe I misread your post. When you said 'player appointed' I thought you meant these mods would be 'elected' by the player base. My bad b:surrender
ah... i see, that's understandable, my fault too, i just tend to throw in wateva words i can think of without much thought XD0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Sounds like you are one of the scammers yourself. Putting in 1 ultimate substance in a shop titled "Subs 60k" along with a load of healing orbs for 60k does not make it any less of a scam.
What if they put 2 ultimate subs? Or 20? where do you draw the line? What if he had 500 ultimate subs at 60k, and 10 orbs at 60 k as well. Would that make a difference? Can you prove, just by looking at it, that the orb price was set to scam people, or that he grabbed the wrong stack? What if all the subs sold and when you got there the only thing left were the orbs, even though he sold 500 subs?
If he had mount in there, even though the name says subs 60k, would that still be scamming? what about false advertisement?
Having one ultimate, does not make it false advertising. Car dealerships do that all the time in ads. They have a lot full of cars, and they list a specific one as being on sale. After that car sells, the ads remains until they run a new ad series.
I am not a scammer and I do not like them, however, I am even more disgusted with abuse of power. I have seen more games being destroyed by GMs abusing their power and bannining people on the spot, just because "they were sure", or doing favours for their friends, than by scammers.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Vellamo - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have considered the same thing, Dark. A system of trustworthy volunteer ingame mods would make the GMs job a lot ezer. Obviously they would not have to power to ban or punish. However, their reports to GMs would carry more weight and require less investigation. But I don't know if most players could be trusted to set aside their allegiances to judge objectively and not abuse their trusted rank.
95% of the players would abuse it. I guarantee it.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Let's go on an adventure to find that remaining 5% b:pleasedZoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »95% of the players would abuse it. I guarantee it.0 -
Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »Let's go on an adventure to find that remaining 5% b:pleased
If the MODs had no GM powers, there would be nothing to abuse..... MODs would only be the eyes and hears of GMs, not the brains and typing fingers.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
ah true, forgot that was a point i made earlier myself, ok lets get this system going! :PIceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »If the MODs had no GM powers, there would be nothing to abuse..... MODs would only be the eyes and hears of GMs, not the brains and typing fingers.
well ok, probably not gona happen... but anyways i would assume the GMs would not want false reports from the mods, even though that would be silly of the mod to do cause...they're a mod... i duno... confusing myself now lol0 -
Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »ah true, forgot that was a point i made earlier myself, ok lets get this system going! :P
well ok, probably not gona happen... but anyways i would assume the GMs would not want false reports from the mods, even though that would be silly of the mod to do cause...they're a mod... i duno... confusing myself now lol
If a mod gives them false reports, than the mod gets fired, easy to deal with....Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
Love the sig Ice... but make sure you try them before a jury of their peers before you slap them upside the head.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
yeah... so take that you naughty people! b:victoryIceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »If a mod gives them false reports, than the mod gets fired, easy to deal with....0 -
there may indeed be cases where someone makes a mistake, but i have watched as one of these catshops went up minutes after this latest patch.
the players name is almost common gems, the catshop name is similar, offering commons at somewhat below what other catshops sell for. there are only lvl 1 gems for sale at common prices. that indicates that this person had to find, drag and price 5 seperate stacks of gems into their catshop. there is clearly no mistake being made, no accidents are happening here.
this person was watching the shop as well. catshopping myself next to them and naming my shop scammer with an arrow pointing to them, and they pop out of shopmode and move....and moved again when i came next to them...and again, never making changes to their name, prices, or inventory.
though i do believe in "caveat emptor", remember that there are younger players on this game as well, ones who do not have the sophistication or experience that would require double-checking everything they do....0 -
LadyWench - Heavens Tear wrote: »there may indeed be cases where someone makes a mistake, but i have watched as one of these catshops went up minutes after this latest patch.
the players name is almost common gems, the catshop name is similar, offering commons at somewhat below what other catshops sell for. there are only lvl 1 gems for sale at common prices. that indicates that this person had to find, drag and price 5 seperate stacks of gems into their catshop. there is clearly no mistake being made, no accidents are happening here.
this person was watching the shop as well. catshopping myself next to them and naming my shop scammer with an arrow pointing to them, and they pop out of shopmode and move....and moved again when i came next to them...and again, never making changes to their name, prices, or inventory.
though i do believe in "caveat emptor", remember that there are younger players on this game as well, ones who do not have the sophistication or experience that would require double-checking everything they do....
Well, the only thing that will prevent things like this to happen would be to remove cat shops, remove player to player trading, and force everyone to trade using the Auction House, and have a fix minimun ammount set for the item, and a fixed maximun amount, after all, we do not want the younger players that lack the experience to buy overpriced items or to under price theirs.
You could mitigate the problem (although not remove it), by having unique icons in-game for every item, instead of having items sharing the same icons (like the gems, or the wraith tags and DQ items, etc).
My only issue is that for every obvious scammer (like the example you gave), there are 10 that could go either way. Here is an example.
There was a catshop by the forges who's title was only "65k". That was it, it only said 65k. Inside there were orbs, priced at 65k, and some other items. Would you call this a scam? The shop did not advertised anything other than a price, and the item description, once you opened the shop did clearly say healing orbs, and they were priced at the advertised price and everything...
How about the catshop that has a name "everything 100k", but when you open it there is one item going 150k? Or the shop that says cheap armor, but when open it you see a one star item with no bonuses selling for 1million.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
LadyWench - Heavens Tear wrote: »there may indeed be cases where someone makes a mistake, but i have watched as one of these catshops went up minutes after this latest patch.
the players name is almost common gems, the catshop name is similar, offering commons at somewhat below what other catshops sell for. there are only lvl 1 gems for sale at common prices. that indicates that this person had to find, drag and price 5 seperate stacks of gems into their catshop. there is clearly no mistake being made, no accidents are happening here.
this person was watching the shop as well. catshopping myself next to them and naming my shop scammer with an arrow pointing to them, and they pop out of shopmode and move....and moved again when i came next to them...and again, never making changes to their name, prices, or inventory.
though i do believe in "caveat emptor", remember that there are younger players on this game as well, ones who do not have the sophistication or experience that would require double-checking everything they do....
I remember this scammer and I can verify what you say is 100% true, in fact for quite a while after the patch there weren't any legitimate CS Blem sellers. There is no doubt what their intent was. Sad really.
Most people with an iota of common sense can spot the obvious scammer from the "maybe". I am inclined to give the maybes benefit of doubt. But when it is clear that the Catshop is attempting to scam and is doing it day after day, there really is no excuse to allow it to go unchecked. An as Spoons pointed out an obvious example like this is not going to be tolerated by PWI.
And BTW thankyou and anyone else who spends the time warning others of scammers. b:pleased0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »If the MODs had no GM powers, there would be nothing to abuse..... MODs would only be the eyes and hears of GMs, not the brains and typing fingers.
Lots of games used to have guides that would do the minor CS stuff. Blizzard I think it was, lost a class action suit against them from players claiming they should have been paid, or at least been able to count it as volunteered time. The result is most if not all companies in the industry (atleast those that would be subject to US laws) have seriously narrowed the scope of what players can do when it comes to player mods (guides, or whatever you want to call them, different games have different names). PWE would probably be in the same boat, the legal precedent is against them using players to help enforce game policy.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Lots of games used to have guides that would do the minor CS stuff. Blizzard I think it was, lost a class action suit against them from players claiming they should have been paid, or at least been able to count it as volunteered time. The result is most if not all companies in the industry (atleast those that would be subject to US laws) have seriously narrowed the scope of what players can do when it comes to player mods (guides, or whatever you want to call them, different games have different names). PWE would probably be in the same boat, the legal precedent is against them using players to help enforce game policy.
The game I used to play that had mods, they "paid" the mods a symbolic amount with CS currency. The ammount you got only bought you one or two of the cheap items in the store. It would be the equivalent of a gold charm per month. It was hardly alot, for the amount of time mods dedicated, but it was something.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
It's a game with many other people playing. Merchanting, and purchasing are parts of the game. If you pay for blemished what you would for a beautiful, then you failed at the game. When NPC priced items suddenly drop to a small fraction of what they were: the game failed you. It's not like these merchants were banking for TT runs or it wasn't the buyer's negligence that made them fail. I'm not down with the cons, but I accept them as part of the game. On the other hand I really don't like the value tampering on stuff I worked hard for. Stuff that would've drop in value naturally on it's own due to market saturation / obsolescence anyway.
If we put safeguards on everything, what aspect of the game is going to be left? We already have angels to cover xp loss on deaths, and now we don't want to be responsible for poor purchasing habits either? In the end the QQ'ers will have a game that mostly involves just sinking money and or time into it.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
Lets look at this clearly shall we?
If a department store has 2 movies for sale. 1st is the first in the series, the other is the 2nd in the series. Both covers look the same, but in your rush to buy.. you failed to see that you actually got the wrong one.
Who is at fault? The store who sold it, the one who made the item, or the consumer?
Objectively lets say the consumer. After all it is your responsibility to know what you are buying. A child is smart enough not to buy a half eaten piece of candy. If they can have that kind of knowledge, they can certainly learn it and apply it to a game. Altho its not nice, nor does it seem fair; somewhere people need to take responsibility for what they do. In and OUT of game.
The store, which sold the item is only selling what they think buyers will purchase. That is pretty smart of them, to sell what people want to buy. They in no way masked the fact that one of these movies was part 1, and the other part 2. Matter of fact, the labels were plainly out for the consumer to see exactly what they were purchasing. Sure, part 2 is newer and probably worth more, but clearly the store was not trying to do any type of secret cover up. They clearly showed what was available all along. Not their fault you were in a hurry, and couldn't use basic reading skills to make sure you got the item you actually wanted.
Now comes the manufacturer. The 1 who made the item. They surely could have guessed, putting out 2 different movies with the same cover would cause a ruckus. Wasn't they smart enough to know that simply putting on a 1 and a 2 being the only difference wasn't enough to keep their buyers from making a mistake? Had they made it correct to begin with, neither the consumer nor the store owner would be having their issues. Thus making the entire argument amongst said store owner/consumer a mute point.
Do I condone the said loophole in buying/selling? Absolutely not. I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam though. Do I think its fair to earn money by cheating people. NO... what they are doing isn't a scam, but they are cheating people intentionally because they know that there are some silly and folly enough to fall for the cheat. The cheat after all would not be happening if the manufacturer (PWI) hadn't made 2 items look exactly alike but have different names.
That said, PW needs to make sure every item LOOKS different, not just has a different name. This would stop all "cheating" of this nature. Cheating is just well, cheating. But the way its done they are just using what they got gifted to them by a company that for some reason couldn't find enough icons.
That said, in game mods would be awesome.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
^Urgh... the blinding pink... it makes my eyes bleed x_x0
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Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »^Urgh... the blinding pink... it makes my eyes bleed x_x
*NODs* in agreement. I had to get my sunglasses out b:laugh0 -
Clear thinker needs a better analogy. Instead of assuming that the department store is selling 2 movies in the same series lets assume that the department store is selling a Disney classic and next to it a rip off of the same Disney Classic (actually this is a typical scam that the department stores around here pull on unaware grannies). The price on both is marked the same. The label above the shelf says "Disney Classic". Both boxes look like the typical Disney classic. Is this a scam? Is it defensible? Should it be shut down?
Ok, now lets say that there is a state law that says that a police officer may, at his own discretion, take any action he deems appropriate against scammers, including capital punishment... that is the law in PWi. THEY rule. We're just visiting. There are NO human rights, NO first amendment, NO rights to a fair trial. It is silly to keep comparing this to the real world where we DO have rights. ANY account may be terminated at ANY time for ANY reason without explanation. That is the law of Perfect World. Live with it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I remember I once read about a trial when a company produce toy with label NERFON, but in their product "ON" is white letter on white background, and they plead that they are not guilty of scamming because the label is technically different. Of course they lose so the analogy apply here as well.
Also, for those who think real life law don't apply here they are wrong. Many real life law do apply here, and there is also another addition to law which is the ToS, which again need real life law to be in effect.0 -
It is a common scam intentionaly used in a lot of games.
1]Find an item that looks like a much more expensive item.
2]Make an alt, on a differant account
3]Alt sets up a shop selling the cheap item but advertising as the expensive one (often with a very attractive price)
4]Keep transfering game coin to a real character untill the GM's finally kill the entire account.
Yes, it is theft. Yes, it is only a game. It is better to get scammed here than in real life where you can lose your paycheck or more. Learn that lesson by getting scammed here, not in real life. Report it.0 -
There are bosses hidden all over this game amongst mobs that look like them (Like White Pheasant and Elysium Fowl for one). Accidentally attacking one could cost you a Guardian Angel. -Scam?Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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Vellamo - Heavens Tear wrote: »Clear thinker needs a better analogy. Instead of assuming that the department store is selling 2 movies in the same series lets assume that the department store is selling a Disney classic and next to it a rip off of the same Disney Classic (actually this is a typical scam that the department stores around here pull on unaware grannies). The price on both is marked the same. The label above the shelf says "Disney Classic". Both boxes look like the typical Disney classic. Is this a scam? Is it defensible? Should it be shut down?
Ok, now lets say that there is a state law that says that a police officer may, at his own discretion, take any action he deems appropriate against scammers, including capital punishment... that is the law in PWi. THEY rule. We're just visiting. There are NO human rights, NO first amendment, NO rights to a fair trial. It is silly to keep comparing this to the real world where we DO have rights. ANY account may be terminated at ANY time for ANY reason without explanation. That is the law of Perfect World. Live with it.
That would be what I consider a scam yes.
"PWE reserves the right to discontinue the Service or to terminate or suspend your account at any time in its sole discretion for any reason, or for no reason."
Quote the terms of service, you have your account, nevermore.b:chuckleMain characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
While I'd personally fully support you deleting the account of somebody doing this scam, you have also gone on record saying you'd do basically the same thing to somebody who is both buying and selling the same item in their cat-shop for a profit.Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »As I said, I'd be currently looking at the shop myself personally before I took any action. That would be all the investigation that's needed.
Now, I know this is something you personally genuinely feel is a scam, but if the bosses at PWI told you no, you cannot in any way punish those who do it because it is completely legitimate, do you think you could keep your personal views on the issue separate?
I think that's probably where the player-GM idea breaks down for me, because people who's jobs are on the line are more likely to obey the rules than players who would just be losing special privileges. I'm not saying that you personally wouldn't obey the rules, mind you, but some people definitely would break them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0
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