Scammer Question For GMs
Comments
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In cat/cow shops you have all the time you need to check carefully what your buying reguardless of whats being advertised. Its upto the individual if you want to pay that price for said item and why should it be ilegal to sell blemished, rough, shabby,average,beautifull etc all for the same price ?.
In cat/cow shops what you see is what you get, it cant be any fairer than that.
Although i personaly take a dim view of people who do this i blame the person buying for rush clicking to buy .0 -
You are making an individualistic analysis of the situation. You see two parties involved - the scammer and the victim. You see the scammer as incorrigible so you dismiss any punitive action against him as ineffective. You see the victim could have avoided the scam if they were careful, so you blame him for making a mistake.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Never said I support their actions. I, in fact said it was very poor character. However, I take responsibility for my actions, if I ever fall for it, it was my fault, I will write their name down on my notebook, and make sure they will never see my business again.
I am making a broader social analysis of the situation. Player to player trade is an essential component to this game. Scams such as this make trade more inconvenient (because you have to stop to double-check everything carefully before completing your transaction), and decreases its efficiency (because people who would have participated in the trade economy get scammed and shy away from it). The presence of such scammers has a net negative effect on how nice a place PWI is to play in, so it needs to be stopped. Furthermore, failing to punish them just encourages more people to do it, making trade even more inconvenient. Right now scammers are few and far between. But how effective do you think cat shopping would be if half the cat shops were running scams?
Say I were to dig potholes into the road. Most people see them and maneuver around them. But some for whatever reason don't and wreck their wheels or occasionally their entire car. Your way of viewing things would result in all the blame being placed on the victims for failing to make a simple maneuver to avoid the obvious pot holes.
But whether people can see and avoid the potholes is not the point. The point is that in order to promote the smooth and speedy flow of traffic so people can get where they are going as quickly as possible, there should be no potholes in the road at all. Society as a whole is better off if there are no potholes in the road. So someone who goes around digging potholes needs to be stopped.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »You are making an individualistic analysis of the situation. You see two parties involved - the scammer and the victim. You see the scammer as incorrigible so you dismiss any punitive action against him as ineffective. You see the victim could have avoided the scam if they were careful, so you blame him for making a mistake.
I am making a broader social analysis of the situation. Player to player trade is an essential component to this game. Scams such as this make trade more inconvenient (because you have to stop to double-check everything carefully before completing your transaction), and decreases its efficiency (because people who would have participated in the trade economy get scammed and shy away from it). The presence of such scammers has a net negative effect on how nice a place PWI is to play in, so it needs to be stopped. Furthermore, failing to punish them just encourages more people to do it, making trade even more inconvenient. Right now scammers are few and far between. But how effective do you think cat shopping would be if half the cat shops were running scams?
Say I were to dig potholes into the road. Most people see them and maneuver around them. But some for whatever reason don't and wreck their wheels or occasionally their entire car. Your way of viewing things would result in all the blame being placed on the victims for failing to make a simple maneuver to avoid the obvious pot holes.
But whether people can see and avoid the potholes is not the point. The point is that in order to promote the smooth and speedy flow of traffic so people can get where they are going as quickly as possible, there should be no potholes in the road at all. Society as a whole is better off if there are no potholes in the road. So someone who goes around digging potholes needs to be stopped.
QFT
You really cant blame someone for making mistake if someone made traps for him to do so.I kill things b:victory0 -
What if the shop operator had stocked with both blemished & shabby, and, because this was such a great deal, all the blemished stones were bought up leaving a few leftover shabby...
/devil's advocate.
Seriously though-- it takes 2 minutes to make your own stones (pro idea right there... you even get bonus exp), takes less than 5 seconds (for slow people) to read the item description (pro logic: if you find two products in a store that look alike, wouldn't you at least look for some tags or something so you know which one is right for you?)
Oh, and what happened to that one saying- 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me...' (or something like that)? Because if you only get scammed once, what's the point of pursuing some sort of pseudo justice? (pseudo becuase you and I both know that the character to be banned is just an alt and can & will be replaced within hours).
p.s selling 1/2 price healing orbs (32k) and jolly jones priced shabby shards (60-90k) on HT b:chuckle
p.p.s I'm more peeved by people running multi-client hacks to operate a dozen shops around archo >.>0 -
Any people who attempt to scam should be punished, and this is for justice. Whether they success or not is irrelevent so stop making argument that blame the buyer, because even if no one fall for the scam that does not make the scam legitimate.0
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Wow people calm down. Take the extra 2 seconds to look at the description before you buy something and this will cease to be a problem.
Like the old saying goes...
Buyer Beware!!!
b:avoid[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Jamri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wow people calm down. Take the extra 2 seconds to look at the description before you buy something and this will cease to be a problem.
Like the old saying goes...
Buyer Beware!!!
b:avoid
Why to calm down? So far its a good discuassion.b:pleasedI kill things b:victory0 -
I accidently priced a stack of mysterious skulls wrong a few days ago on my vendor (was selling 4 stacks) 3 stacks at 2k per, one stack at 200k per. When I checked it the next day I had a ton of hate messages calling me a scammer. Not all scams are intentional, so I think actually doing something about it is hard without punishing honest mistakes at the same time.0
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Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »I accidently priced a stack of mysterious skulls wrong a few days ago on my vendor (was selling 4 stacks) 3 stacks at 2k per, one stack at 200k per. When I checked it the next day I had a ton of hate messages calling me a scammer. Not all scams are intentional, so I think actually doing something about it is hard without punishing honest mistakes at the same time.
ಠ_ಠೊ
...scammer. b:angry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
It happens, I was selling some Chin's Plate's at 200k too and was listing them next so I had 200k on my mind.0
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Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »It happens, I was selling some Chin's Plate's at 200k too and was listing them next so I had 200k on my mind.
BBRRAARRGGHH, you scam, too!
b:angry
b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
If you're talking about the same game I played, that was one of the most innocent scams. People used macros to change the amount of coin offered at the last second, so instead off getting 1m or 10m, you'd get 100k. They could also do this with stackable items or bank notes, with losses well into the 100m range.Mantas - Sanctuary wrote: »With this one i agree b:cute
Dont think that im vote for scam. I played other game where scam was a real problem. They wanna trade u someting. They "accidentaly" turn off trade window. Then swap things and voila! And they were good at it. Thing is, in pwi its harder to scam ppl. If u buy something form catshop u cant blame them cuz u noticed other price after u bought item. And those sellers looking for inconsiderate ppl.
Because of all the complaints about scamming (and other things,) this particular game has since instituted loads of updates that prohibit all unbalanced trading. If you want to trade something from one person to another, you have to exchange full market (server value) price for it. No gifts, no helping low lvls, no clan banks, nothing.
I hate scamming as much as anyone else, but if you can't protect yourselves from it and have to ask the devs to, you may not like the game very much when they are done.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Roll a barb on Sanctuary for hot cleric action. b:kiss0 -
Scammers are worse than bots. Bots improve their own advantage and wealth at the games expense. Scammers improve their wealth by stealing from players. PW has done a lot to reduce bots and anyone who has played the Malasian version sees a marked improvement. However, they have not shown the same concern for scammers. Unfortunately, scammers must be dealt with one at a time.
Perfect World is partially to blame for scams. They have not addressed issues that the scammers take advantage of and have not shut down scammers accounts before the profits can be sent to their mains. The scammer I reported remains there today, no doubt having profited conciderably.
Victims of scammers are very likely disgruntled gamers. They no doubt blame PW as well as the scammer and their own naivete. They may even leave the game or play less. Or they may file complaints, request reimbursement, and generally waste PW staff time.
There is much PW could do to help. They could change icons so valuable items do not look the same as cheap (Ult subs and Healing Orb for example). They could mark gems with a number to designate their level. They could create a scammer report system on the website or in game. And they could clarify to all players what are the consequences of scamming and what qualifies as scamming.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm going to have to partially disagree there, we do take action against people who are repeatedly reported for scamming, but like someone already said we are a free to play. Even when we do our sneaky IP bans people still can get around it if they are determined enough.Vellamo - Heavens Tear wrote: »Scammers are worse than bots. Bots improve their own advantage and wealth at the games expense. Scammers improve their wealth by stealing from players. PW has done a lot to reduce bots and anyone who has played the Malasian version sees a marked improvement. However, they have not shown the same concern for scammers. Unfortunately, scammers must be dealt with one at a time.
Perfect World is partially to blame for scams. They have not addressed issues that the scammers take advantage of and have not shut down scammers accounts before the profits can be sent to their mains. The scammer I reported remains there today, no doubt having profited conciderably.
Victims of scammers are very likely disgruntled gamers. They no doubt blame PW as well as the scammer and their own naivete. They may even leave the game or play less. Or they may file complaints, request reimbursement, and generally waste PW staff time.
There is much PW could do to help. They could change icons so valuable items do not look the same as cheap (Ult subs and Healing Orb for example). They could mark gems with a number to designate their level. They could create a scammer report system on the website or in game. And they could clarify to all players what are the consequences of scamming and what qualifies as scamming.
I understand that you're angry that this person was not immediately banned, but please take the time to consider the volume of tickets that we must service per day.
This is really a bit of a never ending debate: players feel that we are 100% responsible for something that could have been prevented by being more observant, and we do our best to try to wade through the sea of false reports to catch the real nasty scammers. It's not really a fight that you can win, but still that does not mean that we are doing nothing about it b:victory
Click here to send a ticket to Customer Support * tumblr
* twitter.com/battleimmortals * FB * BoI MySpace * Blog0 -
My apologies if I sounded angry and disrespectful. Actually, I am quite impressed with how well PWi is managed. Oh sure, there is the odd occasion when I might think things should or could be done differently (Cough: Charm Pack fiasco), but since I'm not there it is impossible to judge with any certainty. I do appreciate the responses though. It shows that you do value player opinions and try to make the community happy and productive.
In fact if there is a finger to be pointed at PW it would have to be directed at the designers who, it would seem, could fix the icon issue and make both players' and GM's lives a bit easier.
Thanks again for the responses.
PS: I prefer Sporks[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
b:victoryb:victoryb:victory
Click here to send a ticket to Customer Support * tumblr
* twitter.com/battleimmortals * FB * BoI MySpace * Blog0 -
Those scammers better be happy I don't run this game. I'd run around on my GM character, looking for scam shops as I took care of ingame player issues. If I found one, I'd delete their entire inventory.b:laughMain characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Those scammers better be happy I don't run this game. I'd run around on my GM character, looking for scam shops as I took care of ingame player issues. If I found one, I'd delete their entire inventory.b:laugh
I am just glad our GMs seem to look into the evidence (game logs), before going around, using their powers to "make the game better".
What you suggest would be a clear abuse of power, which is as bad as the scammers themselves.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »I am just glad our GMs seem to look into the evidence (game logs), before going around, using their powers to "make the game better".
What you suggest would be a clear abuse of power, which is as bad as the scammers themselves.
As I said, I'd be currently looking at the shop myself personally before I took any action. That would be all the investigation that's needed.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »As I said, I'd be currently looking at the shop myself personally before I took any action. That would be all the investigation that's needed.
If only we did have something similar to player appointed mods to watch the game, especially world chat... would be nice![:\](https://forum.arcgames.com/pwi/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »As I said, I'd be currently looking at the shop myself personally before I took any action. That would be all the investigation that's needed.
And as I said, I am glad our GMs take the time to look at logs and do a proper investigation.... and that you are not a GM in this game (that we know off, at least).
Abuse of power and scamming are both bad things. That is why, usualy, there is a separation between investigation and punishment... Like police and courts. You really do not want the police to be the judges as well.... I guess unless they are Silvester Stalone and ride a flying bike.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »If only we did have something similar to player appointed mods to watch the game, especially world chat... would be nice
Let me guess, you played a US version of a Korean MMO.... that had in-game mods? ***** 2
Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
I wonder if any scammers have posted in this thread to defend their actions or suggest buyer-beware.... wouldn't be surprised.
Of course GMs have the right to take whatever action they deem necessary to maintain the game. If they witness scamming they should be able to take action without having to wade thru a trial and appeal process. I recall that during the infamouse Enrage ksing Oracle bosses event they took the creative action of randomly teleporting the offender... hmmm... maybe they should start randomly teleporting scammers catshops.... say to world boss coordinates.
b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
What is there to investigate when a there is a scaming catshop? If they say they are selling ultimate subs or beautiful citrines for example, but are selling healing orbs or blemished, no investigation is needed. Scams are plainly visible 95% of the time.
Not only am I not a GM that you know of, I'm not any kind of gm or PWE staff member at all, nor will I ever be.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »What is there to investigate when a there is a scaming catshop? If they say they are selling ultimate subs or beautiful citrines for example, but are selling healing orbs or blemished, no investigation is needed. Scams are plainly visible 95% of the time.
How can you be sure that the player did not have those items in the shop when he set up the shop? By looking at the shop itself you have no way to know. You would have to go log diving to see if the player ever had the items on his shop or not.
Are you willing to use your powers to ban/delete player items when there is a chance the player is innocent and it was either a honest mistake or the other items sold out?
Are you going to ban/take back items that players buy in shops that were clearly underpriced due to player error? After all, the buyer would be clearly taking advantage of a mistake from the seller.
Buying items for too cheap when the seller made a mistake is the flipside of the scam coin. If you enforce one, you need to enforce the other, or you would still have people taking advantage of other players. Of course, when people get a great deal, even if it was clearly a typo, people will tell all their friends how great of a deal they got, even though the seller lost lots of coin, pretty sure people do not take screenshot and send them to the GMs so they can "help" the seller. Pretty sure people will not send them item back either with a note saying "I think you underpriced this, please take the item back and set it up for sale again at the correct price".Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Sounds like you are one of the scammers yourself. Putting in 1 ultimate substance in a shop titled "Subs 60k" along with a load of healing orbs for 60k does not make it any less of a scam.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Let me guess, you played a US version of a Korean MMO.... that had in-game mods? ***** 2
uh... no, and it's censored so i have no idea what game you're talking about either lol
It's just that we have forum mods, we can just as easily have in-game mods :P
They probably won't have the power to ban of course, but a warning from a mod tends to stop people from doing naughty things
And if the warning does not succeed and the offense is serious enough, then the in-game mod can take necessary action and possibly file a report which goes directly to a GM (with priorities set maybe?), it's definitely better than having random players sending tickets over and over and over and over (only to have them complain on the forum in the end)0 -
i dont undersand whats the big deal...? b:chuckle0
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Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »If only we did have something similar to player appointed mods to watch the game, especially world chat... would be nice
Dear god that sounds like a terrible idea.
In game mods, sure why not.
Appointed based on in-game popularity? Sweet zombie jesus no way.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida
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Darkjagans - Heavens Tear wrote: »uh... no, and it's censored so i have no idea what game you're talking about either lol
It's just that we have forum mods, we can just as easily have in-game mods :P
They probably won't have the power to ban of course, but a warning from a mod tends to stop people from doing naughty things
And if the warning does not succeed and the offense is serious enough, then the in-game mod can take necessary action and possibly file a report which goes directly to a GM (with priorities set maybe?), it's definitely better than having random players sending tickets over and over and over and over (only to have them complain on the forum in the end)
We are not allowed to name other games, so I had to just put some asterics.
I agree with you though, the game I played had in-game mods who had no powers what so ever, but they work as the eyes and hears of the GMs. That allowed for more people "patrolling and reporting" any activities that could be seen as violations, which allowed to the GMs to investigate and take the appropriete actions. It helped save the GMs from having to "be around" and they could concentrate on the investigation and catching part.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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