FAC discussion thread.

Ahira - Lost City

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

FACs as intended for PWI servers based on Cayeon's guide, do have Ironheart and Purify. Another "expert" tried saying there was no mention, and I posted exactly where it was. Look towards the end and it says to lvl up Ironheart and Purify of at least lvl 5 for AoE solo grinding. And with 3 vit, my cleric can AoE around 30 lvl 96 spiders no problem currently, so not being hurt by going full magic.

Yesh the guide is a little confused on this- throughout it mentions not to waste spirit on heals etc. Then at the end it amends to say yup you should actually level them b:beatup

Cayeon's edited that guide so often he should probably have reworked it to reflect his change in opinion.

Btw pve/grinding is one of the things full magic is actually good at! ^^

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

I like Cayeon's guide, altho the present day PWI play style, theres possibility that his thinking may be outdated. (like any other trends)
His guide servers as a basis for what a cleric CAN do and CAN stat, backing it fully up with tests and charts. I followed his as a guide and then tweaked the rest from ideas on the forum and friends. You have got to be a NUT if you followed his ideas word for word without researching diff. builds on the net.

Zorish - Harshlands

If you read Cayeons guilds it cleary says that he had trouble with pots, and then he had to lvl IH to avoid taking pots that couldnt back the damage he was taking.

So, the first idea of his build was a cleric that didnt lvl any buff, any rez or any heal or purify.
He was indeed a FAC, without heals. Bcs if he had those he would be LEFT TO HEAL and not to DPS, which was the idea he had in mind.

So if you truly speak of a FAC you shouldnt have any heal.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »

If you read Cayeons guilds it cleary says that he had trouble with pots, and then he had to lvl IH to avoid taking pots that couldnt back the damage he was taking.

So, the first idea of his build was a cleric that didnt lvl any buff, any rez or any heal or purify.
He was indeed a FAC, without heals. Bcs if he had those he would be LEFT TO HEAL and not to DPS, which was the idea he had in mind.

So if you truly speak of a FAC you shouldnt have any heal.

You are really obtuse, or just plain stupid, aren't you? What's your frustration? Not being able to get a cleric slave to save your fatty behind?

Magiere - Dreamweaver

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Both what???

It's not stupid to build a FAC, it's a real challenge. If you don't like, just hang with the full healers or hybrids, you should be happy

You forgot your brain at home? O.o
I'm neither a FAC nor a Support cleric...
--> I'm a cleric.
(that means all attack skills maxed, all heals maxed, all buffs maxed, all seals maxed...)


Its like buying a car and not driving it cos you wanna pull it b:beatup
You just not making any sense, and the build too, cos its so easy to have "both" attack and heals.(you can understand it now?)

Holy_Justice - Heavens Tear

Wewt U Go Mod -High Fives Andracil-

Zorish - Harshlands

You wanted it...

http://pw.mmosite.com/guide/2008-12-04/attack_cleric.shtml


Revive: Don't EVER level this skill, no matter how many SP or money you have. People are going to bug you all the time to fly over half the map to revive them. Level 1 is enough to avoid this situation and still be able to revive people in danger of a party wipe in dungeons.

Ironheart Blessing: If you ever get tempted to skill heals to get invited more frequently into FBs or HH, go for this one. Ironheart Blessing will be the only requirement to act as a secondary healer. At 60+, it can also save you a huge amount of HP pots and make a real difference in PvP, so I advise you to level it at least a little. Consider it as a short secondary regeneration buff.

Purify: Get it as soon as it becomes available, and leave it at 1. Leveling this skill will only reduce its cooldown time.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Magiere wrote:

I'm neither a FAC nor a Support cleric...
--> I'm a cleric.
(that means all attack skills maxed, all heals maxed, all buffs maxed, all seals maxed...)

Now, this is easy for you to say, at lev 94 you got all the needed sp to get your act together. So spare us your sermons.

But getting there, you had to make choices, and that's what is being discussed here.

Its like buying a car and not driving it cos you wanna pull it
You just not making any sense, and the build too, cos its so easy to have "both" attack and heals.

Attack and Heals, wow, and you're the master. Hehe. What you left out of the equation is the group heals and buffs: this is exactly what sets the healer and the FAC apart, big time. Heals are the cleric's prerogative, whatever his/her build but group goodies are another matter altogether.

You see the nuance here?

Zorish wrote:

Revive: Don't EVER level this skill, no matter how many SP or money you have. People are going to bug you all the time to fly over half the map to revive them. Level 1 is enough to avoid this situation and still be able to revive people in danger of a party wipe in dungeons.

Agreed, mine's at 3. I'm generous

Ironheart Blessing: If you ever get tempted to skill heals to get invited more frequently into FBs or HH, go for this one. Ironheart Blessing will be the only requirement to act as a secondary healer. At 60+, it can also save you a huge amount of HP pots and make a real difference in PvP, so I advise you to level it at least a little. Consider it as a short secondary regeneration buff.

Exactly, even maxing it won't harm anyone.

Purify: Get it as soon as it becomes available, and leave it at 1. Leveling this skill will only reduce its cooldown time.

Common sense.

Cayeon's accent on FAC highlights the uselessness of group buffs/heals altogether. He does advocate planning for Arcane Empower, Great Protection Aura, Aegis Spirit and Exalted but is foregoing altogether all group buffs and heals (including rez and purify), which really sets the FAC apart from the full healer.

b:victory

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

I don't get it. You're basically gimping yourself just so you could call yourself a Full Attack Cleric. And for what?
And no, I'm not talking about a full mag build, I'm talking about the mindset Cayeon is advocating.

I don't know, I mean I love testing my character to see what he's capable of. Solo healing 1-2 in your early 60s, or soul banisher in your 70s isnt something everyone can say they could do. Or do a full 2-3 as the only cleric and not cause a party wipe (while randomly dropping a tempest in a room full of mobs to keep it spicy)

That's the kind of things that keep it fresh for me, and help see where I stand and what I'm capable of handling. Whereas you on the other hand can't do a fb69 because lvl1 purify would get you into the physical aoe which would one shot you. Not to mention that a level 5 ironheart (srsy cayeon? lvl5? lol) isn't gonna keep anyone alive.

Oh and I would just LOVE to see you aoe grind with a lvl5 ironheart and a lvl1 purify. You would die the instant you landed soon as all the mobs cast their poison all at once.

And you have a lvl1/3 res. I mean I hope to god you NEVER get ressed by anything higher than that.

Was gonna whine more, but I'm still enjoying my morning coffee so nothing really comes to mind

Ahira - Lost City

I think we should respect if someone wants to follow the FAC guild- they're perfectly entitled to do that even if we disagree with it. If its good for them or not depends alot on how they play the game.

Its true though, party buffs/heals arent all that important unless you run in alot of FB/HH etc parties- same with revive/bb and other support skills.

But the counter argument is that you can level alot of the support skills anyway because the spirit shortage- which is the main reason for not levelling them in the FAC guide, does not apply at higher levels.

Just because you have these skills should not detract from your FAC playing style as it is your choice whether you want to run in a party as support or not, but having these skills can be useful should you ever require them.

FAC is a playing style more than anything else, whether you have certain skills or not in my opinion is irrelevant. b:thanks

Ahira - Lost City

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cayeon's accent on FAC highlights the uselessness of group buffs/heals altogether. He does advocate planning for Arcane Empower, Great Protection Aura, Aegis Spirit and Exalted but is foregoing altogether all group buffs and heals (including rez and purify), which really sets the FAC apart from the full healer.

b:victory

Yes people do forget that Cayeon was planning to get Arcane Empowerment, Greater Protective Aura, Aegis Spirit and Exalted renewal at some point. These are squad buffs so not sure I follow what you're saying? b:question

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Ninnuam wrote:

I don't get it. You're basically gimping yourself just so you could call yourself a Full Attack Cleric. And for what?

I agree that it would be stupid to build such a character for the sole purpose of the name: I don't see any reason for pride in the name itself. My original intention was to try and build a MAG character with the minimum VIT and see how well and how far it could fare. That's why I'm even surprised to have made it to lev 80.

I don't know, I mean I love testing my character to see what he's capable of. Solo healing 1-2 in your early 60s, or soul banisher in your 70s isnt something everyone can say they could do. Or do a full 2-3 as the only cleric and not cause a party wipe (while randomly dropping a tempest in a room full of mobs to keep it spicy)

That's the kind of things that keep it fresh for me, and help see where I stand and what I'm capable of handling. Whereas you on the other hand can't do a fb69 because lvl1 purify would get you into the physical aoe which would one shot you. Not to mention that a level 5 ironheart (srsy cayeon? lvl5? lol) isn't gonna keep anyone alive.

Hmmm...ok, so right from the start, you pretend to be better than me: is there a competition here? You're 94 and I just reached 80, it's a little unbalanced don't you think? FYI, I have been in fb69 more than once, in TT, TW, FF, and some other instances with much higher levels and have enjoyed them all. I don't see your point here.

Oh and I would just LOVE to see you aoe grind with a lvl5 ironheart and a lvl1 purify. You would die the instant you landed soon as all the mobs cast their poison all at once.

You're right, that's why my IH is maxed (10, that is... not 5) and purify's at 3, not 1.

And you have a lvl1/3 res. I mean I hope to god you NEVER get ressed by anything higher than that.

I never get rezzed, except in instances and I rez as well. I carry pots, powders, orbs, charms and GAs.I never asked -- since I started this character or any other -- for rez, buffs or anything else from other clerics. I will go out of my way to help others, but not in the rez sense. I figure I'm playing with other responsible gamers who know how to play intelligently so I act accordingly. If I'm proven wrong on this point, I just leave them alone.

Ahira wrote:

[quoteI think we should respect if someone wants to follow the FAC guild- they're perfectly entitled to do that even if we disagree with it. If its good for them or not depends alot on how they play the game.[/quote]

Thank you.

But the counter argument is that you can level alot of the support skills anyway because the spirit shortage- which is the main reason for not levelling them in the FAC guide, does not apply at higher levels.

Exactly, and seeing I'll be choosing the Demon option later on, it makes it pretty clear that group goodies will not include heals and buffs but rather (group) protection and enhancement skills, along with maxed nukes and stuns.

The choice of the cleric is either:

a. to heal, revive and purify ourselves and others (including BB) OR
b. to buff, protect and amplify our teammates' damage powers (including BB).

I've chosen the second option (b) -- NOT a mixture of a. and b. -- for the obvious reason that being hybrid, you can't really max the full FAC's potential.

FAC is a playing style more than anything else, whether you have certain skills or not in my opinion is irrelevant.

Your opinion is appreciated and I think it can extend to all characters as well. The FAC is not the only "weird" character in the game, and that's why I love playing PWI as opposed to other games where one has to conform exactly to a certain build in order to succeed.

b:pleased

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree that it would be stupid to build such a character for the sole purpose of the name: I don't see any reason for pride in the name itself. My original intention was to try and build a MAG character with the minimum VIT and see how well and how far it could fare. That's why I'm even surprised to have made it to lev 80.

See my point now? You just said it yourself
You went for a pure mag character. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's a perfectly viable build and I know plenty of clerics in their 90s following the same build.
What sets a FAC apart from a "normal" full mag built cleric is their choice of skills, or rather lack there of. And hard as I try, I just cannot see the point of intently avoiding certain skills which set your class apart from other caster classes.
I mean I have pretty much all my skills maxed (aoe heal is at 5 and stream is at 8, rest are maxed). If I don't feel like healing, and we have another cleric (even more so if I know them, which is usually the case) I'll just say to them, hey I'm not in the mood to be a healbot, you do the healing and I'll do the dd-ing. Problem solved. Still, push come to shove and the cleric dies, I have a maxed res, wellspring, ironheart, and if the situation calls for it I can get bb up to try and save the party from a wipe. Or if there isn't another cleric around I have no problem being the primary (or the only for that matter) healer.
I hope you can see my point here. I'm not dissing your build, I just fail to see the point of purposely gimping yourself by avoiding essential skills to the class. Mind you, I'd the say the same to a "FSC cleric" who doesn't even get cyclone and plumeshot, or leaves them at level 1.

Hmmm...ok, so right from the start, you pretend to be better than me: is there a competition here? You're 94 and I just reached 80, it's a little unbalanced don't you think? FYI, I have been in fb69 more than once, in TT, TW, FF, and some other instances with much higher levels and have enjoyed them all. I don't see your point here.

Apologies if I came across that way. It wasn't directed at you personally, it was directed at john doe FAC, whose main purpose of "leveling ironheart a little bit is to compensate for the hp loss when using pots" --> can't be arsed to get the exact quote from the guide, but that's the general message it sends out.
Compared to them, yes I do believe a cleric who can take on multiple roles and adapt as the situation requires - is better. Whether they're full mag, hybrid, LA or even heavy - is irrelevant.

You're right, that's why my IH is maxed (10, that is... not 5) and purify's at 3, not 1.

So basically, you're already straying from "The FAC" as advocated by Cayeon. My question is, while you're at it, why not get bb and max wellspring too? You won't be forced to use them, you won't lose ANY damage potential you already have. The only thing you GAIN is the option to be a "better" cleric if and when the situation calls for it.

I never get rezzed, except in instances and I rez as well. I carry pots, powders, orbs, charms and GAs.I never asked -- since I started this character or any other -- for rez, buffs or anything else from other clerics. I will go out of my way to help others, but not in the rez sense. I figure I'm playing with other responsible gamers who know how to play intelligently so I act accordingly. If I'm proven wrong on this point, I just leave them alone.

Fair enough. I just figure that 200k spirit and 280k coin it requires from lvl1-10 isn't much at lvl80. I had max res at lvl64, soon as it became available. I went out of my way to res someone not in my squad maybe 10 times from then until now, and it was up to me whether to do so or not.
Again, having a skill doesn't mean you have to use it. I don't like wasting my time traveling halfway across the world to res someone, no one does. The only exceptions being if it's a guildie or someone from my fl and I'm like half a minute away, or they're a really good friend who'd do the same for me. Everyone else gets the same reply - carry a GA next time.

woyaa

As far as I'm concerned, by about level 80 the role of Healer and Attacker have blended together too much to be a separate build.

Lenyel - Harshlands

First to say, i didnt read all the 5 pages of this interesting topic, for time reasons (its 5.45 am in italy now, im in a bit hurry to get some hours of sleep), but i fully read the Cayeon's guide, and i must say that FAC are no doubt interesting... What i regret is that he says to dont learn healing skills also when u have not necessary Spirits. I think u are free to play as massive DD also if u CAN heal... I like the phylosophy of DD cleric, i like it pretty much, but i'm still learning my healing skill (ok im just lvl 47 and i play since 3 weeks, so the only healing skill im actually learn is IH...) and i will do furthermore. Then personally (as unexperienced player) i think that some VIT point can't **** your build down... Like 1 VIT every 2 lvls (8 mag, 1 vit, 1 str) but may it can make some difference in damage standing.

I can reassume... Full MAG Cleric is not a mad build (even if (personally) i prefer to get also some VIT), have sufficient M.Atk to deal great damages is of course cool and desiderable.
Full Attack Cleric that refuses to get experience in his healing capabilities even with exceeding spirits are just incomplete charachters.

Yes to High MAG Cleric, yes to Half Attack Clerics (i'm sure i can deal great dmgs with 8 MAG every 2 lvls even learning healing skills lmao).


Sorry for my sucking english

ilystah

I don't see problem with FAC if they do not have enough spirit and coin and have to choose between support skill and attack skill, because as the argument go, it is their choice of style of play. However when there is more than enough spirit and coin for all people, then refusing to level up support skill just for the purpose of being labelled a FAC is totally irrational.
As for squad, if people is looking for a cleric without additional specification, then they are looking for a cleric with good support and debuff ability, because it is a social norm: if they want a FAC cleric instead they will have to specify it. If you move away from the norm, then either you don't squad, or if you do you have to state beforehand the build you are using, otherwise you are hiding the truth from people for your own enjoyment AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. People don't have to ask for your build, you have to tell them (consider an analogy: if people are asking for a doctor in the battle field, they are not asking for a solldier with basic bandage knowledge).
The unfair argument don't apply here, because this is the same thing to every class (imagine you ask for a barb and the one who turn up is a full mag barb that never tell you his build, or asking for a wizard and end up with a Morning Dew wizard). And if you have to ask every single person you want to party, or you have to specify every detail when you looks for party, it is going to a communication nightmare (imagine now instead of "looking for cleric", everyone have to said "looking for a cleric with BB, maxed IR and revive, got all debuff, high MAG build and carry enough MP pot", and this happen to every class, you will see how horrible things will get). That's why there is always a social norm in the method of getting party member, and this social norm just happen to be more effective (imagine if 1 day social norm for a cleric is FAC then 99% of the shout will have to specify the build of the cleric, make it inefficient).
The argument that FAC perform as well as FSC does not apply here, because you don't. You can argue that FAC also have IRB and IRB is all needed when you have a good party, then you are wrong. Every once in a while people make mistake by stupidity, slowness, circumstance or unexpected event, and FSC can help the party recover from mistake much better than FAC. Mistake IS EXPECTED. So it is also expected for every class, not just cleric, to be capable of recovering from it. And no the unfair argument don't apply here, it just so happen that cleric is the most effective at recovering from the worst mistake (that cause party wipe), other class are more effective at recovering other type of mistake.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Ninnuam wrote:

...I hope you can see my point here. I'm not dissing your build, I just fail to see the point of purposely gimping yourself by avoiding essential skills to the class.

Yes, I do see your point and actually (even if I haven't quoted you entirely) that's about how I work with teammates. If the other (primary) healer feels like DD'ing, I'll spam heal but he/she will do the rez... so long as they know my choices.

Thing is, in many instances, with good players, they don't even need spam heal and we, clerics are left to ourselves so why not partake in the fun and attack that boss who's only asking for it? When things heat up, we revert to our healing/protecting selves within seconds.

That freedom is only possible when players are allowed their own playing style, whatever their choice of character

So basically, you're already straying from "The FAC" as advocated by Cayeon.

He doesn't advocate not maxing IH: it is essential to the cleric's survival. Wellspring and PureHeart, he disses but not IH.

My question is, while you're at it, why not get bb and max wellspring too? You won't be forced to use them, you won't lose ANY damage potential you already have. The only thing you GAIN is the option to be a "better" cleric if and when the situation calls for it.

For the simple reason that SP is scarce and I would rather use it effectively than invest it in probable (if and when) scenarios. That makes me a better cleric, IMO.

Again, having a skill doesn't mean you have to use it.

I'm sorry, but again, the scarcity of SP forces us, clerics, to make choices. Another example of this is the Flight Mastery skill: if I was to level that one, I'd lose immensely in other more essential skills, therefore, I'll spend a little to get better wings, even if I was told that maxed Flight Mastery was faster than upgraded (bought) ones (which I still doubt).

In short, I cannot afford to get a "just in case" skill. Wish I could, maybe later on?

I don't like wasting my time traveling halfway across the world to res someone, no one does. The only exceptions being if it's a guildie or someone from my fl and I'm like half a minute away, or they're a really good friend who'd do the same for me. Everyone else gets the same reply - carry a GA next time.

Exactly. When I was a younger cleric-lad, I've been fooled into worse situations such as go halfway across the map (after much begging from other players) only to be told, when I reached them: "nevermind, someone else was flying by" or even worse, players begging me to go to such and such coords, (which were higher bosses' locations) and I'd die miserably while they were laughing it out in the chat. I even saw a higher-level guildie cleric charge coins for rezzing guild-mates. You can bet I slammed the door on my way out of that guild.

All these have reinforced my choice of build and playing-style

Ilystah wrote:

I don't see problem with FAC if they do not have enough spirit and coin and have to choose between support skill and attack skill, because as the argument go, it is their choice of style of play. However when there is more than enough spirit and coin for all people, then refusing to level up support skill just for the purpose of being labelled a FAC is totally irrational.

I agree that later on, I will get more SP to distribute but, what does support mean? Does it mean only heal, BB, buff? or can it not also be enhancing my teammates' powers with other skills such as RB and others?

I will tell you, in any instance where a healer is not needed every second, it can become quite boring.

As for squad, if people is looking for a cleric without additional specification, then they are looking for a cleric with good support and debuff ability, because it is a social norm: if they want a FAC cleric instead they will have to specify it. If you move away from the norm, then either you don't squad, or if you do you have to state beforehand the build you are using, otherwise you are hiding the truth from people for your own enjoyment AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. People don't have to ask for your build, you have to tell them (consider an analogy: if people are asking for a doctor in the battle field, they are not asking for a solldier with basic bandage knowledge).

You are dreaming in colour if you really think that most players care for our build. When they ask for a cleric, they think "healer" with BB, who will save their sorry behinds if they get in trouble. I usually play with very good people who know exactly when the Veno has to pull, when the barb can start to tank and when the DD's can start attacking. Believe me, it makes for the most enjoyable experience for me, as a cleric, that I can heal and DD as needed while the main healer does BB and DD as required and everything flows smoothly.

However, most parties ask for a top-notch healer while they don't even know their role or what they're doing. Party wipe? The cleric's fault. Did the Veno overestimated her herc's talents? Did the barb jump in too early? Were the DD's too close? Doesn't matter, it's the cleric's fault.

No thanks: I like intelligent peeps, who recognize what I am doing as I always warn them in advance about my playing-style.

The unfair argument don't apply here, because this is the same thing to every class (imagine you ask for a barb and the one who turn up is a full mag barb that never tell you his build...

I'm sorry, that stupid scenario doesn't apply to me. I always make it a point to specify my playing style whenever I join a team. If they don't want, no problem. If they do, then it's all fun.

The argument that FAC perform as well as FSC does not apply here, because you don't. You can argue that FAC also have IRB and IRB is all needed when you have a good party, then you are wrong.

IRB = ???

Every once in a while people make mistake by stupidity, slowness, circumstance or unexpected event, and FSC can help the party recover from mistake much better than FAC....

Not mistake, stupidity. And no, a cleric is never forgiven for a party wipe even if it was a "stupid mistake" from other players.

Besides, you never know how even a FAC could save a stupid party's sorry behinds.

I can clearly see that this discussion is leading nowhere. Fear of ingame dying overpowers any sense of creativity any of you, repliers, might have enjoyed otherwise.

But in PWI, as in any other MMORPGs, death IS part of the game and may be the only way to learn to be better at it and absolutely nothing we, clerics, will do can change an iota of this reality.

The main purpose of this game is to have fun playing together and sometimes, against each other. But if you think that by making a certain class your slaves for your sole enjoyment is the only way to go, I'm sorry, you still have a lot to learn.

On the other hand, if a player chooses to build a traditional full-healing cleric for his/her own purposes of being socially accepted, appreciated, welcomed and utterly essential, be my guest, I have nothing agains that either... after all, PWI caters to all our needs, doesn't it?

b:pleased

Skimi - Dreamweaver

it doesn't really bother me how clerics chose to play their class, but one thing clerics need to remember: don't reply on world chats or any other chats that ask for clerics. they need cleric that can DD AND heal. go reply to shouts that ask for DDs. tired of seeing party getting wiped on the floor because cleric prefers to DD instead of healing party and cares to tell party that he is FAC only when whole party dead

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it doesn't really bother me how clerics chose to play their class, but one thing clerics need to remember: don't reply on world chats or any other chats that ask for clerics. they need cleric that can DD AND heal. go reply to shouts that ask for DDs. tired of seeing party getting wiped on the floor because cleric prefers to DD instead of healing party and cares to tell party that he is FAC only when whole party dead

No decent cleric wants to see party die just out of principle: that's stupid and takes the fun out of the game.

What everyone should come to realize is that, healer or not, a cleric resents the fact that everyone in the game considers a cleric to be their personal slave, whenever they die or need heals/buffs. There is no reason whatsoever that a cleric has to run all over the place to heal,buff or heal just anyone. Those skills should be reserved for teammates and all other calls should be ignored by every cleric.

b:pleased

xxxdsmer

Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »

If you read Cayeons guilds it cleary says that he had trouble with pots, and then he had to lvl IH to avoid taking pots that couldnt back the damage he was taking.

So, the first idea of his build was a cleric that didnt lvl any buff, any rez or any heal or purify.
He was indeed a FAC, without heals. Bcs if he had those he would be LEFT TO HEAL and not to DPS, which was the idea he had in mind.

So if you truly speak of a FAC you shouldnt have any heal.

i'm not evn gona continue to the end of the thread here b/c this is all i needed.

this is the exact stereotype and closed mind sort of thinging that is the root of all the flamewars about FAC's. FAC does not mean ZERO heals or purify, it just means you get the minimum skills needed in that department (i.e.: get iornheart and purify to acceptable lvls but not waste the sp on blessing of the purehearted [great chi maker tho] or wellspring surge [till later when its rly useful in pvp, if u like] chromatic healing beam n all that other fancy stuff)

i would consider my cleric a FAC, and i currently have IB lv8, and purify 4 or 5. i couldnt imagine functioning without them. FAC is the term cayeon coined for the build, it does not nessecarily 100% mean STRICTLY full attack cleric with zero capability to heal. it may be how cayeon went about his lower lvls of cleric, but it is not how all of us do so. PLEASE DO get this out of your heads, and stop comin to the forum to make all this flamewars about our build.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

leave the DDing to teh wizards b:scorn

if you want to be a wizard use blessing of the purehearted, its just like the wizard heal ^^

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Ppl seem to open FAC topics every week.

A mod should close this.

andracil

I'm not going to close this because it's about FAC's. This is the only thread that's been able to keep a semi-civilised discussion about them, so I'm giving this a shot. If people start to seriously flame, I'll be here right away, I'm keeping an eye on this thread anyway.

Alyyy - Sanctuary

o.o stil open or did i come inside in the last second 0.0?

ChronicDose - Harshlands

My main question is for a party based MMORPG, why choose an attack cleric when that is not usually the requirement of clerics for Squad based PVE. For one exampleL:Doing TT runs, most parties I do TT runs with have limited numbers, maximum 4 to maximize profit, in this squad we require, Tank(Veno with Herc or Barb), 2 DD (Bm, Archer, Wizard), and me, the Support LA Cleric.

If you choose a FAC to be DD, I just have a lot of arguments about why Id rather an archer, BM or Wizard.

BM's can stun, interrupt and off-tank if required, (i.e.pick up aggro taken by Clerics or other DD's)
Archer can DD and get much more criticals, I haven't seen an Arcane Cleric with even near 10% crit.
Wizards are made as a max mag damage DD class, they can out damage Clerics, and are meant to at higher levels.

A party shouldn't require 2 clerics, one should suffice, so playing a FAC seems to me as a Self centered way of saying; "I just want to be different and not play the role that my class was built for."

The not leveling up Rez: That is very self centered. Not going to rez people is a different story if its way out of your way, but if you are going to be a FAC and in a party with a true support cleric is it fair that:
A) If you die which you probably will because you have minimum HP that you get to lose .2%
If other cleric dies for some reason he gets to lose 3% because you were just to focused on not wasting a mere 300k sp to help those you are in a PARTY with?

Hey I understand the whole hating rezzing, because I have died literally 100's of times being to messed up to play, or making a noob mistake, and I have had NO ONE to rez me, Ive probably taken over 100 exp deaths, haha but to me that is just extra SP. It is kind of disheartening, but hey...that is life.
It makes me feel better when I rez people and they are like :
"OMG!!! LVL 10 REZ!???"

There is nothing wrong with being different it is just trying to be that different in a SQUAD based game, you lose your role and you just can't match others who have already been given the role.

I succesfully solo "clericed" TT70 bosses at 67 and solo "clericed" TT80 Bosses at 71-74.

I built my character not because I wanted to "conform" with the cleric ideology, (Definitely not since I chose LA, doesn't seem to be that many) but to fit the role as designated by the title "Cleric"

I mean, FAC may be good at PVP because they have both physical and magical attack spells, unlike wizards, but in a group setting they just don't shine IMO.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Oh well, let me just state then that its pointless to even discuss it. But:
What sets FAC from rest is that it goes only for attacks, lving heals is a no option as stated from the creator of the FAC guide.

As stated he didnt want to be in a roll of a healer and thus he didnt even get heals so he would not be forced to do so in any situation. Let me remind you that in original long version guide he wrote that he got IH cause he could not keep healing him self with pots, and that was around lv80ish. So he got IH to lv5 or so.
To summon it up. Even at high lvs when you have extra spirit he didnt get heals, not cause it wouldnt help him just so he cant help others *major LOL here*. And thats a FAC.

But lately ppl call all sort of builds FAC, like full mage build can be only FAC? To clear this up, full mag is status build not skill build.
Some call them self FAC just cause they have lill more attack spells lved, some call them self FAC just cause they left revive at lv1.
Its all fine but your not a FAC, face it you have IH maxed and thats a heal as stated not a FAC any more. Just a cleric who tends to attack.

Think i am full of bull by now dont ya? But is it true yes it is.
My self as cleric who prefers to dish dmg when ever i can should know.
I am not a FAC cause i dont cripple my party roll by not having heals just to have a cool build name.

FAC = no heals, no healing others no helping your party when needed. FAC gives up his party roll for selfish reason, and personally its insulting when some one calls me a FAC cause i like do DD.

All other builds are just clerics with other point of view on skill choice priority, but are not that selfish to not help when needed as FAC's.

Lenyel - Harshlands

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

leave the DDing to teh wizards b:scorn

if you want to be a wizard use blessing of the purehearted, its just like the wizard heal ^^

Wizards sucks is a FACT. If you suck, why should we suck, too?

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Lenyel - Harshlands wrote: »

Wizards sucks is a FACT. If you suck, why should we suck, too?

lool, wizzies are far better then you think, and thats the fact

GodlyTank - Dreamweaver

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lool, wizzies are far better then you think, and thats the fact

The "Fact" of the matter here is that FAC's are b:angry

lol b:cute

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Lenyel - Harshlands wrote: »

Wizards sucks is a FACT. If you suck, why should we suck, too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1Yggn9ZFuc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz64FkUuOoQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFKxZG877hU

tell me wizards suck now