Fist BM wearing light armor
Grammaton - Harshlands
Posts: 22 Arc User
Hi everybody,
I would like to share my experience with this "kinda weird" build I use.
My characteristics:
Weapons: fists/claws/bow
Armor: light armor
Level: 46
Str: 70
Dex: 140
Vit: 30
My best trophies so far:
Lvl 50 BM wearing spear (final shot with the bow when BM was running away
) - he said he was unbeaten till our duel, but who knows what does it mean , I try to stay realistic.
Any lvl 1-55 wizard I've met and dueled.
I can tell, I really enjoy fellow blademasters missing all the time. No wizard can get through my light armor (who knows how it will be on higher levels though...).
The bad thing is, I cannot really tank any bosses at all because of their unnatural accuracy. But so far, I don't have problems with magic/melee regular mobs.
On my level, evasion rate is on 28 % average on even level mobs, critical hit is 9 %.
What I see as a major advantage while fighting against the other melee characters is, that they are not able to keep their PvP strategies working on me due their high miss ratio. For example, when they miss me with stun skill, everything continues different way.
The next advantage is, even I hit only for about 400 dmg on mobs, there is pretty high chance that I will critical hit them with any of my skills, which in combination with often used spark eruptions can take out the mob with three hits like would wizard or pure magic cleric do.
Tell me your opinions or experience.
Dyrmagnos, leader of Grammaton
Motto: Don't pick your nose on the Archosaur main street!
I would like to share my experience with this "kinda weird" build I use.
My characteristics:
Weapons: fists/claws/bow
Armor: light armor
Level: 46
Str: 70
Dex: 140
Vit: 30
My best trophies so far:
Lvl 50 BM wearing spear (final shot with the bow when BM was running away
) - he said he was unbeaten till our duel, but who knows what does it mean , I try to stay realistic.Any lvl 1-55 wizard I've met and dueled.
I can tell, I really enjoy fellow blademasters missing all the time. No wizard can get through my light armor (who knows how it will be on higher levels though...).
The bad thing is, I cannot really tank any bosses at all because of their unnatural accuracy. But so far, I don't have problems with magic/melee regular mobs.
On my level, evasion rate is on 28 % average on even level mobs, critical hit is 9 %.
What I see as a major advantage while fighting against the other melee characters is, that they are not able to keep their PvP strategies working on me due their high miss ratio. For example, when they miss me with stun skill, everything continues different way.
The next advantage is, even I hit only for about 400 dmg on mobs, there is pretty high chance that I will critical hit them with any of my skills, which in combination with often used spark eruptions can take out the mob with three hits like would wizard or pure magic cleric do.
Tell me your opinions or experience.
Dyrmagnos, leader of Grammaton
Motto: Don't pick your nose on the Archosaur main street!
Post edited by Grammaton - Harshlands on
0
Comments
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I respect the fact that you want to play an almost "unique" type of BM... the reality is... you're gonna get smoked at higher lvls. Because any decent BM or barb who knows a thing or two is going stun u and reach to melee distance. Trouble. Low vit means low HP, yeah, your crit is higher but you're not an archer who can do unreal damage fast so, they are going to reach to you and that means trouble with LA.
BMs are mob controlling characters who support squads, you stun and make some DD helping the tank and protecting the spell casters, and for that you need HA, as simple as that. That's what i've learned from experience, it doesnt matter your weapon choice, choose the one that fits you and play the game, you like axes/hammers? great, swords/blades? cool, fist like you? nice to me. Each one has its pros. Some are more easy to play and some more tricky, its up to you.... but, LA and that high Dex.... only means trouble for a BM. Thats my experience from playing. You want high dex and crits? play an archer.
Now its your decision, if you want to continue playing that BM, good luck and hope you prove us all wrong.
Take care out there0 -
Well, I am not trying to prove you all were wrong, but I will definitely continue. What troubles me a lot is +50 % acuracy ring for high level BMs, thats for sure a pain in the **** for me.
I looked on some other pages and saw magic attack rings with +30 % evasion bonus, which takes me even further into this "rabbit's hole". It looks really funny.
I have to say I have great motivation to continue this way because of my current results and experience.
To make some things clear: I don't try to avoid close combat, I am betting on that melee warriors won't hit me and the stun will fail often. I need close combat to gain Chi, but I am able to hit with the bow whatever runs away from me including the archers.
The game is not built for the combat type "one to rule them all", so I guess I will be useful for taking out the wizards and being able to survive occasional attacks from BM or EA at least for a while.
I will figure out how successful I can be in FB, TW, PvP or other types of combat. I have no experience with TW and only very little with PvP and FB.
And of course, when I figure out, I will tell you here. 0 -
Archers have longer range though... So you cant run from them0
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Well, the higher lvl you go, the less defects are going to have the chars (good ones of course). Those BMs and barbs who were missing are going to start hitting, and those stun attempts that werent working (they work 4 me 90% of times) are going to start working. You know, the higher the skill... So its going to be hard.
I've being dueling some pure dex archers (in my lvl range or a bit more) to see my accuracy lvl and i can tell you... i haven't lost yet. Yeah, i miss 1, i miss 2, but i dont miss 3. And when tat happens, there goes their HP. A litlle bit of buffs, a good use of sutra and stun and they're going down sooner or later.
And yeah, you are right, this is not a one-man game, if you want to be succesful later on you'll have to find your role in a squad (TW,TT,FB...). And i told you what is expected from a BM.
Leaving all that asside, this is a game you know? (lol). And its main purpose its to have fun playing it the way you want it to play it. So, if you are comfortable with you char. go on, play it and find your way out there. I dont like the idea of "the game its like this and this is the way it should be played" either. I don't like seeing the same build BMs all over the place either playing the same way and doing the same skills... that's not fun at all.
I'm s sword/blade BM and you know... we don't get much respect either... Axes are meant to rule the galaxy or something like that it seems... well, i don't like them. Call me noob, stupid or whatever... i dont give a **** lol.
Take care out there and good luck with your BM.0 -
Wow, I find hard to explain this since this is a complicated topic.
However, HA is the best way to go most of the time and for that reason I just have enough STR to wear it. Most mobs are either physical or combo of physical/mag.
In either case HA is the best since for Physical Mag combo you can block all the mag attacks and use Marrow physical to reduce the lame physical attack even more.
Saying that there are some cases in which LA is way to go:
1) Pure magic mobs.
2) PVP
This is the most controversial use of all, I have only tested on duels since I dont PK.
This is how you do it.
You wear you HA at all times, if you are going to batle a magic class. Turn to fashion (use a lame excuse like: "oh, I;m jut trying to make sure you cant recognize me when I run away")
Then, switch all your armor from HA to LA (they can't see you did that, in their minds you are still wearing HA). You can also change your rings, belts, ect. to buff yourself even more.
They will **** you with mag attacks and they are waiting for you to use Alter Marrow Magical (which you dont need to do anymore), since you will never do, you are ruining their strategy.
Then when you win, you can go for broke again and show them the truth.
If you face each other again, now you are in his/her head (what armor is he wearing?).
Anyway this assumes you are have enough storage to make this work and that you have enough time to do it. Having a big storage and shortcut for this is important.
I have only done this once on a duel and it worked perfect. If you read the guides on the other forums, the strategy vs BM is based on BM's wearing HA and using AMM after.
For sure there are strategies to deal with BM in LA. However, they have to figure what are you wearing first.0 -
I believe you can be effective when you reach high levels, but you will need to be careful about how you gear up and equip yourself. Also, high level archers can buff you, giving you another +35% evasion for half an hour (sages and demons can do even better).
In my opinion, for offense, and defense, you should be looking for "multiplier effects". +x% evasion being one example, and -0.1 seconds hit rate being another example but you have some other, different kinds of possibilities.
I think your biggest disadvantage will be your single target focus. Axe users get wonderful aoe skills but fist users get their biggest strengths not from their weapon skills but from their other advantages.
Good luck!0 -
Yeah go with what you like. I love swords and so far I have been a pure sword BM but I have seen the dual axes at higher lvl and so I am going to go hybrid later on hehe0
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PvE is going definitely bye bye for me I guess with the LA (especially bosses) - that means hard times. Mostly when other people won't invite me to their squads.
But for PvP I have one goal: To be able to kill or to be able to bolt fast (ninja style! ). All of you have given me lot of useful advice, especially about battle tactics of other BM builds.
An uneasy task indeed. Well, people cannot have everything. If you are on my level range, please feel free contact me in game on Harshlands PvP server to check me in duel. I would love to duel experienced players - at least I can learn a lot.
Contact: Character named Grammaton - it can be easily recognized because it belongs to faction Grammaton, so it's double Grammaton.
---
For those who would ask me why it's named like that: It's because I use it for manufacture for all our members, so manufactured stuff is labeled "Manufactured by Grammaton" - which is quite "sexy" when it is weard by Grammaton members. - it's like our own faction brand. 0 -
Kedth - Sanctuary wrote: »I've being dueling some pure dex archers (in my lvl range or a bit more) to see my accuracy lvl and i can tell you... i haven't lost yet. Yeah, i miss 1, i miss 2, but i dont miss 3. And when tat happens, there goes their HP. A litlle bit of buffs, a good use of sutra and stun and they're going down sooner or later.
With no offense, I have something to this quoted text, Kedth:
I fought lvl 48 BM when I was lvl 45 and he was missing like 9 times in a row. Well that's annoying!
...but OK, let us skip to higher levels where you shouldn't miss that much. There are a few differences between an archer and a BM:
First one is that I have stuns too and you can bet I won't miss.
The second: I have more hitpoints, aura of the golden bell and alter marrow physical.
And the third one, don't underestimate my dmg per sec. ratio. 0 -
I dont understimate anything from any type of player, if it sounded like that, sorry. Not my intention here. I was only stating that you can't depend only in BMs/barbs missing hits cause it wont happen always.
I never missed 9 times in a row against anything btw, not even 5.
And again, i'm talking about my experience and my own build, which i have been carefully making. May be better or worst that any other, but i do my job with it.
And yeah, aura and marrow phys giving 7.7k phys def is reeeeeeally helpful. Tell me about it, i can be next to any tank without sweat it, so i think something i'm doing good.
Of course, archers kick-**** pretty much, and are always welcome to join any squad because their unreal DD. I played as one a bit and i like them so...0 -
Using LA might work for the low levels (because most BM's are newbies and they don't use a PvP build). So one will see a lot of "miss" fighting meele classes, specialy during duels.
The higher level one gets, the lower the damage will get (higher defenses, higher buffs, etc).
And the higher level you get, the more accuracy the other people will have, so they will rarely miss on you (remember the unatural accuracy of bosses? yeah, most meele classes will have that at higher levels),plus they have a much higher damage . So when fighting meele classes you won't be able to kill them, at all.
A basic PvP rule at high levels is: "Meele class do not fights other meele class" (during PK/TW/Group PvP).
The reason is simple: They can't kill each other (unless one of them heavily outgears the other), BUT, if you are wearing Light Armor, they will be able to kill you.
So you could say: "Ok, I can't beat meele classes anymore, but I can still own casters!"
Then at high levels, you will see ALL the casters/ranged kitting you, making you unable to kill them with fists.
Then you change to bow, but you see that your HP/Mdef is not enough to keep you alive, and your evasion/accuracy is useless.
During high level TW/Group PvP your physical defense is not high enough to keep you alive from meele classes, your evasion is useless even if you use dual HH90 gold magic rings, your HP/mdef is not enough to keep you alive from casters/archers, and your damage is not high enough to kill anyone.
So yeah, pretty much it is that way at high levels.0 -
First of all, let me thank you for teaching me on carrying a bow as a high Dex BM, it was awesome.
You know my build with 5 Str and 5 Dex per 2 level, I do same damage with Bow as my sword, so yes, when a mob runs away, they are just as good as dead as I don't need to chase after it at all.
I quick-slotted the bow so all I have to do is press a button and my toon will continue attacking. Without having to equip and point-click again.
I totally understand where you are going with your build and I believe the only thing that sets us part is I love blades and you love your fist. While your fist allows you to have higher dex, I have the option of wearing a HA.
I will continue on with my build as well, not to prove anyone wrong, but same as you, I am happy with what I am seeing and this is making my life as a BM more fun.
Good luck. I hope you can keep sharing your experience and I will do the same.
High Dex BMs FTW b:victory
@ Lyndura. Thank you for all the insight from a higher level point of view too. I learnt a lot from you. I mean it Anywho, I believe I will continue on until I call it a success / failure, then re-stat if necessary 
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Yikes.. If you wanted an archer you should have played an archer.
I am not opposed to a sword/fist BM wearing light armor for magic resist. I have actually seen a couple.. But to play like an archer without archer skills is nerfing yourself.
When I played WoW there were a lot of "melee" hunters which made no sense either.0 -
Aragorn - Harshlands wrote: »Yikes.. If you wanted an archer you should have played an archer.
I am not opposed to a sword/fist BM wearing light armor for magic resist. I have actually seen a couple.. But to play like an archer without archer skills is nerfing yourself.
When I played WoW there were a lot of "melee" hunters which made no sense either.
Aragon,
Bow has its uses. However, you dont need it, its just handy:
1)when melee mobs are in packs, you can lure one by using a bow. you have a range of 20m. if more mobs agroed on you. you can always run away. You might say that you can use range skills for that but that cost you MP. an arrow is cheaper than MP of Drake ray. BM range skills are only about 10m (compared to 20M)
2)If your are grinding. you can again lure the mobs to you. A good sample is kraufis Scouts (water mobs) at 645 352. These mobs drops good DQ items. there are several guys grinding on them. However, there are no many mobs(about 4).
If you stay on the right spot in between the mobs you can lure them with your bow, whithout having to swimn around to each of them. this will save you from losing your mobs to somebody else or wasting time swiming to each of them. The bow creates a luring sphere of 20m in radius. Staying in the midle will keep you on the money. I made couple millions in coins by grinding this way on those mobs. No need to say everybody else grinding on those mobs either left the place for me or got a bow toob:chuckle
3)if you are high level and you are helping a low level player on a quest on Archo. You can kill those mobs quicker with arrows as you have high dex. I kill those mobs between 1-3 shots. Its faster and quicker than you running around to each mob as you have range again. this will save you repairs as you hit and they dont hit you.
4) You can combine Atmos Strike with a bow and again you hit and they dont hit you. You can say again that you would prefer to use Drake ray or other skill but again an arrow is cheaper than MP.
there are many more cases but this post is getting long. Again you dont need the bow but it is pretty handy if you like to improvise.0 -
I have come into contact with a few fist Bm's, and I have never lost to one in a duel as a spear Bm(although there are not that many...so...I have not dueled that many). I think the problem for fist Bm's in pvp is that you MUST use charms for pvp, and getting through a charm is all about spike damage. Fist users have good dps, but not good spike dmg, thus they have trouble getting through charms.
Your evasion is an advantage now, but once you reach 7x and melee's start using Misty Forest Rings (LY), they do not miss anymore, and they will be doing twice your damage (even more if you are LA). Ultimately, I can oneshot a 5 vit LA user with a farstrike crit, and if I stun and spark you will die without coming out of the stun. You will see fists start to fail in pvp around 6x-8x.
Now, that being said I think that at high levels there is potential for fists, especially if you go hell spark + zerker fists + dragon bane and mebbe an increased attack speed genie skill that could be very powerful. But I would warn you not to expect much success until you get there, especially against dex axe builds, and spear Bms. Archers will also oneshot you, and LA does not hold up against late game magic.
That being said, I think you should continue with your build if you like it, that is what is most important. 90% of the Bms I see are axe Bms with XS, and it gets really boring, which is why I am a spear Bm and I refuse to change (even though, honestly, axes might be better). So good luck with your build, I am just trying to warn you what you might find in the future (and you may consider switching to a heavy armor fist build...trust me, if you can wear heavy just do it, melee chars cannot kill heavy armor users with charms, its a pointless battle).0 -
i have a pole bm named Belly on harshlands, i'll be on tomorrow from 8 PST until ~2 PST if you'd like to try your luck.0
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I'll share my experience here as a Fist BM that made the jump to Axes. It seems to be appropriate.
When I hit 30, I was debating what weapon to finally settle on as I began the levels where grinding was going to be important. I learned all the differences, advantages, and disadvantages to all of them. In the end, though, I made my decision on a poor choice. I chose to be a fist blademaster because I never saw any around. All BMs that I saw generally carried axes, with poleblades and swords being the others. Occasionally, I would see some fistmasters around, but they were rare. I opted to go this route because it seemed to be the least popular one, and the drive to succeed at a job where others didn't level it was a big push.
I made my stats for pure DEX, getting just enough STR to wear light armor. After all, my evasion was through the roof. People would have a hard time hitting me and I would have decent defense against magic, right? It seemed to make sense, and I carried this build for awhile. I did very well with it.
Then I hit 70.
PvP became nothing less than a headache for me. Yeah, people couldn't hit me, but be damned if I could generate enough damage to kill them unless they were lesser level than me. I became nothing more than a stunner, and while that's fine in TW, I need to be able to kill opponents in PvP, not just keep them stunlocked.
So, shortly after hitting 70, I re-stat to axes and went heavy build. It wasn't two days after that in which I was involved in a mini PK-war against an 8x Fist BM and dropped him while he attempted to chip away at my HP.
I haven't looked back since.0 -
Even with fast sparks you werent able to kill the others?
And when you said they werent able to hit you, did you mean that you were safe from melee attackers? Like you can run away unstunned?0 -
Taraleth - Lost City wrote: »I have come into contact with a few fist Bm's.
QUOTE]
Sorry for being out of topic a bit. Since I use several weapons I have noticed something.
If you walk around on fists/swords your chances of being asked to duel are more. However, when I'm fashion walking around with axes or bow, I have never been asked to duel.
Even guys way lower than you challenge you. Not sure, if they know you are weak or they are just curious.b:chuckle0 -
annnnnnnnnnnd the results:
10/10 in my favor.
LA=nom nom crunchy0 -
Belly - Harshlands wrote: »annnnnnnnnnnd the results:
10/10 in my favor.
LA=nom nom crunchy
Ouch. Glad I went heavy.
I would like to comment on the Bow use though, if I may. I'm working on a high dex Poleblade build so I expect to be able to get Bows at or near my level as I push forward. I'm loving it! I know I'm still early in the game and all newbiefied, but so far just about anything lower than me (PVE) is a oneshot, and anything my level just loves to follow those little arrows away from their friends. I keep my bow in my quickbar along with my melee weapon so I can swap between them quickly. Arrow-arrow, bladeswitch, Drake's Ray, and the mobs my level only need another two charged attacks to drop. One if I hit a critical.
Leading with the bow makes each engagement take a little bit longer, but it conserves my mana so that I don't have to meditate as much. Using skills alone within melee reach of the mobs, I could quickly use up 50% of my MP. But each arrow hits for about the same as a regular weapon hit, at a distance where the physical mob can't touch me yet.0 -
hmm I guess I have a build like that ( the bow comes in handy when pulling mobs or even just using them on physical mobs as you hurt them before they can get to you ). but my stats are a bit different
lvl 52
vit: 43
Str: 124
Dex: 103[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Super Duper Uber Booper0 -
Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »Using LA might work for the low levels (because most BM's are newbies and they don't use a PvP build). So one will see a lot of "miss" fighting meele classes, specialy during duels.
The higher level one gets, the lower the damage will get (higher defenses, higher buffs, etc).
And the higher level you get, the more accuracy the other people will have, so they will rarely miss on you (remember the unatural accuracy of bosses? yeah, most meele classes will have that at higher levels),plus they have a much higher damage . So when fighting meele classes you won't be able to kill them, at all.
A basic PvP rule at high levels is: "Meele class do not fights other meele class" (during PK/TW/Group PvP).
The reason is simple: They can't kill each other (unless one of them heavily outgears the other), BUT, if you are wearing Light Armor, they will be able to kill you.
So you could say: "Ok, I can't beat meele classes anymore, but I can still own casters!"
Then at high levels, you will see ALL the casters/ranged kitting you, making you unable to kill them with fists.
Then you change to bow, but you see that your HP/Mdef is not enough to keep you alive, and your evasion/accuracy is useless.
During high level TW/Group PvP your physical defense is not high enough to keep you alive from meele classes, your evasion is useless even if you use dual HH90 gold magic rings, your HP/mdef is not enough to keep you alive from casters/archers, and your damage is not high enough to kill anyone.
So yeah, pretty much it is that way at high levels.
well i cant speak for you or others, but I have done the heavy armor/duel axe BM before and I HATED it, yeah it took a bit less thought then my light armor fist/claw BM but I dont enjoy simply sitting there and chopping stuff up in the first place. Even for pvp at least at mid level I prefer my light armor build, its funner and thats whats most important.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Super Duper Uber Booper0 -
Revolte - Heavens Tear wrote: »hmm I guess I have a build like that ( the bow comes in handy when pulling mobs or even just using them on physical mobs as you hurt them before they can get to you ). but my stats are a bit different
lvl 52
vit: 43
Str: 124
Dex: 103
The pulling trick still work with the lowest level bow you can get (the range is still 20m, regardless the level of the bow) and of course you can equip it with your stats.
On you current stats the highest bow for you would be this one as the dex requirement is 98 and you have 100.
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/223
Another thing with my bow,since Iam high dex. is that it allows me to be involved in my own FB's or with other bosses.
Since I can hit good with my bow without pulling agroo from a good distance.
On the same lines, you create chi while usingthe bow, then you can use the spark eruption to use it on your own bow. Another player might say: "what?"b:shocked you can use spark eruption with bow as BM, lol
I also crit with my bow too.
I also like to leap back and finish the mob with my bow. I think it looks fancy.
Another thing, if you are almost finishing up a mob but had to pull back because others have just spawn next to you. You can leap back and finish the mob with you bow (1 hit or two)
Again, this is just handy stuff. you dont need it.0 -
well ill let you guys know this im a 86 BM and im a extreme build (can weild all BM weapons). For killing other BM's and Barbs i use my 80hh fist. As ppl may say fist ppl get owned at end of game. Thats so wrong if you ever saw how fast fist hit and the hh90 gold fist with zerk. Fist vit build pvps almost never lose to ppl. If you ever go 2 a private server you would see thats the most common build on them. As for the bow im able 2 wield hh70 unicorn bow. For those mages who like to run away. So ya if you want a BM that wont die Heavy vit fist bm is the way to go as for ligth armor it use full against magic classes.0
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didnt read much of the topic, youre only level 47, once you see misty forest rings(increase accuracy by 50% rings) around, BMs wont have any trouble hitting you. being a fist BM in a pvp server seems like a bad choice, most BMs eventually go axe for their stunlocks and zerk axes.0
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im pretty sure ax bm's cant kill barbs cuz they hit so slow when triple spark fist is like using zerk xs but hitting 1.45 secons =/ misty ring is for the weak ax build0
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Would be more interested in hearing from a BM who didn't need to restat to use axes on their take of how well they did. Going dex build will deal reduced damage even when taking into account the extra crit. Also, they must have -interval gear to even be considered a fist BM. Without these two things, it will not have enough damage to make up for the damage difference between them and axes. Later on high level refinement takes care of that, but even then requires -.2 or better reduction in interval.0
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angryteddybear wrote: »im pretty sure ax bm's cant kill barbs cuz they hit so slow when triple spark fist is like using zerk xs but hitting 1.45 secons =/ misty ring is for the weak ax build
i dont see why ANYONE would allow you use triple spark, smart people would just time their stuns to right after you spark, and your 3 sparks go to waste.
and if not misty, they can always go for a pair of ring of mastadons 0 -
i dont see why ANYONE would allow you use triple spark, smart people would just time their stuns to right after you spark, and your 3 sparks go to waste. and if not misty, they can always go for a pair of ring of mastadons
you are countering after you know what he is going to do. the situation he is explaining you dont know what he is going to do.
Saying that, aparently most fists BM follow similar strategies as I have heard similar ideas in other treads.0
This discussion has been closed.
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