kowlin

Foxx - Heavens Tear

Kowlin is a horrible pet. Its only saving grace is that it is fast, so I suppose you could use it to lure, but a range attacker (eldergoth or cactus) will survive luring much much better.

Most "rare" pets are total rubbish. The small bear is pretty good as an all round tank (tho Id still use a magmite for general levelling), and of course the puppy wins the cuteness prize.

tweakz

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Kowlin is a horrible pet.

Yep, out of 9 battle pets: it's the one I don't feel like leveling. Only reason I still have it is because I invested in a rare skill for it. It works good now for clearing low level FBs, BUT those low level FBs are a waste of time.

Zetarana - Heavens Tear

Personally, I use the Lunar Lupine, it is pretty good for Luring, awesome for Debuff with Howl (5), and Light on the purse strings...

my 2 cents...

Sevas - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Kowlin is a horrible pet.

I disagree. My Snow Hare was my main pet until I tamed my own Kowlin. Then the Kowlin became my primary pet because I didn't steal agro from it like I did with the Hare. It has a higher damage than most pets a Veno can have and I am one who likes to fight for agro. I'll give any tanker a run for their money on their tanking abilities. Kowlin was most challenging and didn't start losing agro to me until my mid-late 70s.

tweakz

Snow Hare - another horrible pet. (Not being very objective here)

My guess is that a Lunar Lupin would be an excellent grind pet, but I wouldn't use it as a lurer.

Ana_I - Sanctuary

well even magmites can be lured well, so i think theres no need of fast pets

Aniella - Harshlands

lol i like my kowlin <,<* also i have take up the skills..

Zetarana - Heavens Tear

Ana_I - Sanctuary wrote: »

well even magmites can be lured well, so i think theres no need of fast pets

I agree up to a point... It depends on how much time you want to invest in an instance or otherwise...

If I need to pull 100 critters I will want to do it quicker than a C.Mag.

tweakz wrote: »

My guess is that a Lunar Lupin would be an excellent grind pet, but I wouldn't use it as a lurer.

However, if I am pulling something like Wurlord I would use my C.Mag so I don't have to worry so much about it's health, tho I usually use my Marksman to pull Wurlord anyhow, I am just trying to make a point on speed vs. survivability of the pet.

tweakz

Ana_I - Sanctuary wrote: »

well even magmites can be lured well, so i think theres no need of fast pets

Mean used to lure? If so, no way. Magmites are slow enough that they'll probably be hit with mag before getting to target, and mag is where they're weak. They'll also definitely be hit with phys. Almost any pet can be used to lure with, but it takes certain attributes for them to be proficient at it in all kinds of situations.

Lolite - Heavens Tear

Kowlin is not that bad... although his defence is horrible.. I use him now in bh59s for luring and he does a pretty good job... never died except when two mobs exploded on him at once lol

I found him useful to pull aggros away from clerics/wizard with his many skills and high speed. If I see an aggro on cleric I usually got my Kowlin to attack that mob while I spammed his skills lol He caught up to the mob really fast and was able to save the cleric. However >_> he can't tank at all... usually if 3 mobs are attacking him, he's so dead...

Aniella - Harshlands

Kowlin has not so much life..and die fast..but if y know when to heal him..y can kill mobs who are 40 lvls higer..i can kill 106 mobs easy.

david12345

Lol @ thread

Just get a herc.

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

david12345 wrote: »

Lol @ thread

Just get a herc.

If you actually READ the rest of the thread, you'd know that everyone has said that the Kowlin is good for luring and not tanking. The opposite would be true for the Hercules.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Herc is a pain to lure with, often. (Not that you can't, but it's much like the golem as it waddles forwards, and you have to remember to remove the reflect)

So yeah, I'd like a kowlin. But the wolves do just fine in the meantime. They don't do so well at surviving an attempt to pull something that isn't the nearest monster (ignoring the voodoo about not setting a skill, which seems to sometimes work and sometimes not)

So for that, I'm going to have to say... marksman makes a good lurer.

I'd say howl is great too - but the lunar just couldn't hold aggro off of me.

Anyway, I still want a Kowlin. If only to find out for myself that it's no use.

tweakz

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you actually READ the rest of the thread, you'd know that everyone has said that the Kowlin is good for luring and not tanking. The opposite would be true for the Hercules.

No, the Kowlin sucks at luring.

david12345

I read some of the thread... and I said get a herc.

Kowlin has no hp and dies. You basically shave off, what 2-3 seconds per lure? At the same time you increase the chance you will **** up dramatically, not only endangering yourself but your whole party. And if it does die, which it will, you will need to cast a lengthy spell to get it back, greatly eating your mp.

Herc isn't that slow either (at least post lvl90), I always lure with it, and unlike Kowlin there is 100% chance it'll live unless you really do something stupid (read=lure harpy wraith).

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

If the pet dies during a lure one of two things happens:

1. It dies before it has pulled. Annoying, but no disaster, try the next pet (and/or res the pet)
2. It dies after it has pulled. Well, you've got a monster heading towards you - but you've actually saved time on the pull, because you don't need to unsummon, just summon your tanking pet and continue as normal.

The only way it can be a disaster is if you panic and heal it, or something daft like that.

I only lure with the fatboy if I already have the reflect off and am feeling too lazy to click the buttons to save the time. (Or when we want to lure, say, half the mobs but not all of them)

Don't know if the kowlin is itself a particularly good one (since I don't have one myself) but you're dismissing the concept of a luring pet entirely? That seems... mad.

david12345

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If the pet dies during a lure one of two things happens:

1. It dies before it has pulled. Annoying, but no disaster, try the next pet (and/or res the pet)
2. It dies after it has pulled. Well, you've got a monster heading towards you - but you've actually saved time on the pull, because you don't need to unsummon, just summon your tanking pet and continue as normal.

The only way it can be a disaster is if you panic and heal it, or something daft like that.

I only lure with the fatboy if I already have the reflect off and am feeling too lazy to click the buttons to save the time. (Or when we want to lure, say, half the mobs but not all of them)

Don't know if the kowlin is itself a particularly good one (since I don't have one myself) but you're dismissing the concept of a luring pet entirely? That seems... mad.

Whats so mad about it? Honestly I never saw a point in having a specific luring pet. Are you lvl69? If so then I have no idea why you are not using herc for 100% of your luring.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Because as I have to unsummon it to clear reflect anyway, I might as well pull out a faster (or ranged) luring pet rather than pulling the herc out again.

Sure, I *can* lure, albeit less efficiently, with the herc. But unless I'm feeling sleepy or lazy I might as well take that tiny bit of effort and play better.

david12345

I think that having a seperate pet, leveling it, spendng money on it and have it taking up your pet bag to shave 2-3 seconds per lure is mad... but thats just imo.

I don't think you can even call it more time efficient either, since you're going to heal/revive the luring pet at some point - both of which do not waste time with herc, as you pet heal while its tanking the lured mob, and revive.. well as said herc just doesn't die on lure unless you **** up bad. You also waste mp on the luring pet, recovery of which will either cost you time wise or money wise in the long run.

Only way I see luring pets having any serious effect is if the luring pet might have a debuff, and even then it might not be worth it.

tweakz

david12345 wrote: »

Whats so mad about it? Honestly I never saw a point in having a specific luring pet. Are you lvl69? If so then I have no idea why you are not using herc for 100% of your luring.

Sure.. I really want to catch a boss with a Herc that was just summoned, is slightly damaged and still has yet to get buffs. The armored bear has close to the same survivability as Herc using Tough, is faster and has the bonus of coming with Threaten.

Only way I see luring pets having any serious effect is if the luring pet might have a debuff, and even then it might not be worth it.

Your inexperience is showing.

david12345

tweakz wrote: »

Sure.. I really want to catch a boss with a Herc that was just summoned, is slightly damaged and still has yet to get buffs.

Never had an issue doing that, in fact usually the boss rarely ever actually hits the herc, and if it does the damage is minimal because the attack was physical - it did not have enough time to channel.

I think herc gets about 4k hp at lvl 87, don't remember for sure, but yea, even unbuffed the extra 500-1k less hp won't really be a problem if you pet heal while buffing herc just after it has grabbed agro.

The armored bear has close to the same survivability as Herc using Tough, is faster and has the bonus of coming with Threaten.

...or you can just use herc to lure and save yourself time and money?

Your inexperience is showing.

Your is troll face is showing.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Whilst Tweakz is indeed very annoying to talk with...

...at least part of this annoyance is because he is so often right.

I agree with you that you can heal the tank whilst it attacks/rebuffs. (I was indeed going to suggest that you can cut out time healing the luring pet with a similar strategy, albeit at much greater risk of pulling EVERYTHING)

But with a mob that's been debuffed and pulled you've got a greater length of time to get those buffs sorted out. I'm personally a big fan of 'slow' on my puller (howl seems actively counter-productive and the only decent threaten I've had is on a grimalk that dies as soon as you look at it) - although it does nothing at all to bosses; it's a very nice safety buffer to get your tank in place on anything else.

And I really don't think your herc will always avoid taking a hit on the way in to lure. Many things have decent range to start their channel. The instant-unsummon trick is great, but not 100% reliable. If they follow that hit up with another big hit as you catch it then you're in for a world of pain.

I'm not saying that you can never use a herc to pull. Obviously, you can. It has a major advantage in survivability when doing so.
It's just not particularly good at it. Unless you're really hurting for pet-bag slots (which is possible, land+flight+mount and you need fungus or gold for the next one... but you're already talking about having a herc, so gold is one thing you've got access to) using a slot for a luring pet seems a good investment.

Spending lots of coin putting insane skills on it? Levelling it up very much?
No, that's probably not worth it.

tweakz

Obviously, you can. It has a major advantage in survivability when doing so.

Herc HP:4135 pDef: 8952 mDef: 7161 Spd: 8.1 Buffs: Increased Def 150%
Bear HP 3149 pDef: 7618 mDef: 7618 Spd: 8.6 Buffs: Reduced Dmg to 1/2
Lv. 90 stats from: http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/petstat.php

-Survivability is arguable with their default skills.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Whilst Tweakz is indeed very annoying to talk with...

...at least part of this annoyance is because he is so often right.

Tweakz is annoying because when there are multiple right answers, he insists that his is the only right one and everyone else's is wrong.

Personally I side with tweakz on the lure pet/herc lure thing. But the option of not having a dedicated lure pet is a viable one too. It just means that in the 1%-2% of cases where the herc does take damage (too much damage by your judgment), you have to abort the lure, heal up the herc, and try again. IMHO this takes a lot more time than having a dedicated lure pet which you can just let die on the initial attempt, so I'm skeptical there's any time savings there vs. having to revive a lure pet. There's also a slightly increased risk of the herc dying at the start of the fight because it was slightly damaged when resummoned.

As for having to spend time leveling up a lure pet, unless the pet is doing double-duty in another role, I don't think the lure pet even needs to be leveled up. If done properly, your lure pet should almost never be hit (ranged pets can be unsummoned outside of melee range, a kowlin is fast enough to close the distance before the mob(s) can attack and the bright red lightshow makes timing the unsummon dirt simple). So there's really little to gain from leveling it up if all it does is lure.

But if those things don't really bother you, then sure, go ahead and lure with the herc. All this debate over best lure pet is about trading off one risk for another. Some people prefer certain risks to others, others have a playstyle which makes them encounter certain risks more frequently. So matching your choice of luring method to what best fits your playstyle should be the goal. Not to come up with a "one lure pet to rule them all" answer.

tweakz wrote: »

Herc HP:4135 pDef: 8952 mDef: 7161 Spd: 8.1 Buffs: Increased Def 150%
Bear HP 3149 pDef: 7618 mDef: 7618 Spd: 8.6 Buffs: Reduced Dmg to 1/2
Lv. 90 stats from: http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/petstat.php

-Survivability is arguable with their default skills.

Just to clarify, against level 90 mobs the herc's 8952 pdef with +150% buff translates into 86.1% damage reduction, or 13.9% damage transmitted. The bear's 7618 pdef translates into 32.1% damage transmitted. With the Tough skill that drops to 16%.

For mdef, the herc has 16.7% damage transmitted vs. the bear's 16%.

So both pets take nearly the same amount of damage with their skills active.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Well, that slams the armoured bear right up my "Want when I hit 80" list.

So.. it'll be a Christmas present, I guess

My "Survivability" was comparing the herc to the lure pets I can actually use...

tweakz

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tweakz is annoying because when there are multiple right answers, he insists that his is the only right one and everyone else's is wrong.

Here to discuss the topic or mud sling? Who left out critical information in their arguments like the fact that you were disadvantaged by a small screen to begin with? Should I argue that the Huggy Hare is best for luring because it's cuteness holds my attention better? -No, it's an unreasonable argument because it does not apply to the typical gamer. So why not stick to facts and the point of the thread?

Vitenka wrote:

My "Survivability" was comparing the herc to the lure pets I can actually use...

In that case, a ranged pet.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Lets keep it on topic

Don't make me pull this van over.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Here to discuss the topic or mud sling? Who left out critical information in their arguments like the fact that you were disadvantaged by a small screen to begin with?

Tweakz, I stand by my position that the kowlin's red light show makes for quicker and more accurate unsummons. The studies I've read on visual perception and reaction time support this position. It's the reason red is the predominant color chosen for warning lights (like car brake lights).

It has nothing to do with being "disadvantaged". One could make an identical argument that someone who advocates a ranged pet is also "disadvantaged" by having poor reaction time, and thus needs the extra time provided by the ranged pet. But I have never claimed that because I don't believe either to be true.

The kowlin gives you a better alert when to unsummon. The ranged pet gives you more time to unsummon. Which you prefer depends on the person playing. Neither is inherently better than the other.

As for my statement about you insisting that your way and only your way is the right way, I think most people would agree that's an accurate assessment of your posting style and why it is annoying. It wasn't meant as an insult or mud-slinging. It was merely an observation. If I could amend it, I would add that you also tend to take things stated by a person, and try to recast it in the most derogatory way possible (like turning my statement that I find unsummons easier to time with the red lights, into me being "handicapped" with a small screen and poor vision). If that isn't your intent, then I would suggest you reappraise your writing style, because it's certainly the way you come across.

Brael - Dreamweaver

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, that slams the armoured bear right up my "Want when I hit 80" list.

So.. it'll be a Christmas present, I guess

My "Survivability" was comparing the herc to the lure pets I can actually use...

Anything a bear can do, a cub can do better. Of course, you would have to level the cub up to 90, plus spend a bit on skill upgrades. The end result however would be that it has more survival than a herc unlike the bear which simply equals the herc. Though it is a little slower than the bear.