GM's... are the rumors true?

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  • Jrudora - Lost City
    Jrudora - Lost City Posts: 445 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ok, I guess I don't get it.. people are complaining about phoenixes and flesh ream all the time.. are phoenixes the only pets with flesh ream? I have a kowlin with flesh ream.. upgraded to lvl 5 so it holds agro better.. does that not mean that he should be nerfed also? what they should do is not nerf the pets, but fix the glitch

    You got it, 100%.
    Nerf Flesh Ream, not the phoenix.
    Previously before the phoenix came by, the bug wasn't a huge problem since pets had fairly low attack damage.

    Regardless, Flesh Ream is bugged, and needs to be looked at.
  • godheadslament
    godheadslament Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Ren - Lost City wrote: »
    actually bms and wbs are even more overpowered. especially since they practically deleted the dmg reflect skills...

    And how do you vertify that? Barbs and BMs with the right weapon have a 0.025% chance of a double crit? You failed!
  • Ren - Lost City
    Ren - Lost City Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jitora - Lost City wrote: »
    Didn't you 2 shot me a few weeks ago?...well and your pheonix
    you're a lowbie, I'm talking about people my level who dont have npc gear
    godheadslament wrote: »
    And how do you vertify that? Barbs and BMs with the right weapon have a 0.025% chance of a double crit? You failed!

    tell that to the wbs that seem to spam double crits on me, maybe I'm unlucky, maybe you're unlucky...

    But, if a bm has 7% crit, and zerk, that should be about a .7% chance of double crit... unless zerk is only 5%, then it's .35%.

    Either way zerk weapons are ****, they add a static +5-10% crit that isn't available to GLASS CANNON classes.
    TANKS should get survival weapon modifiers, glass cannons like mages should get DD modifiers like zerk. This game is illogical.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Honesty, I don't care about Pheonix. Sure its a problem ( the bleed bug anyway) but whatever, Herc is still what I have a problem with.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jitora - Lost City wrote: »
    Honesty, I don't care about Pheonix. Sure its a problem ( the bleed bug anyway) but whatever, Herc is still what I have a problem with.

    I have a problem if barbs have a problem.

    Note to venos: Stop buying the Hercules pet before we have no barbs left in the game. b:surrender
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • godheadslament
    godheadslament Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Ren - Lost City wrote: »
    tell that to the wbs that seem to spam double crits on me, maybe I'm unlucky, maybe you're unlucky...

    But, if a bm has 7% crit, and zerk, that should be about a .7% chance of double crit... unless zerk is only 5%, then it's .35%.

    I don't know if the rate of zerk is 5 or 10% but even with 10%, a lucky barb gets rarely 1 double crit out of 100 hits. Calling this 'spamming' is... You must be really unlucky
  • Aerilius - Heavens Tear
    Aerilius - Heavens Tear Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Enina - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The Hercules/Phoenix are cash-shop pets - in theory - and thus by default should be the strongest available in the game. However, because the other classes don't have the same options, they/we seem underpowdered compared to the Hercules/Phoenix-using venomancer.

    This is exactly what I keep saying over and over again. Introduce comparable items to the other classes, items that DON'T directly compete with the phoenix and hercules, and the problem is solved. Nobody has offered me a solid reason as to why it would not work, but instead people say, "You're an idiot", or something comparable (ironically enough, the people who say these things are always venomancers).

    Venomancer always complain whenever anyone protests that venomancers get the option to use these ultra-powerful pets, yet they don't understand at all why people playing other classes get irritated in the first place. Yeah, **** the other classes! Like so many venos keep saying, if you think venos are so powerful, then **** the other classes and switch to a veno! This game doesn't need anything else!
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2520089001&dateline=1235021362[/SIGPIC]
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This is exactly what I keep saying over and over again. Introduce comparable items to the other classes, items that DON'T directly compete with the phoenix and hercules, and the problem is solved. Nobody has offered me a solid reason as to why it would not work, but instead people say, "You're an idiot", or something comparable (ironically enough, the people who say these things are always venomancers).

    I have no problem with that...the only problem implementing such things is the following: What could be implemented? A Skill? or a Weapon? or armor? or what?...because as it stands a pet is very easy to implement..whereas the other classes have nothing of the sort to go from. So while I fully support the idea of having some form of cash shop equal...I don't see how its possible.
  • Aerilius - Heavens Tear
    Aerilius - Heavens Tear Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jitora - Lost City wrote: »
    I have no problem with that...the only problem implementing such things is the following: What could be implemented? A Skill? or a Weapon? or armor? or what?...because as it stands a pet is very easy to implement..whereas the other classes have nothing of the sort to go from. So while I fully support the idea of having some form of cash shop equal...I don't see how its possible.

    I don't know! However, the options are endless, really. Go take a look at the thread I made ("Part 2 of the veno argument"), vote in the poll, and voice your opinion.

    Maybe archers could get an endless supply of arrows. Maybe wizards could get a reduction on the MP cost of skills. Maybe barbarians could get a Flesh Ream that deals double damage or double length. Maybe blademasters could an increase in attack rate. I don't know, but there are too many different things to think of that could be implemented in the game, priced at whatever the price of a nix/herc is, and people would buy them. AND venomancers or the Flesh Ream of their phoenixes wouldn't have to be nerfed. Nobody would have much reason to complain anymore.

    But no, apparently I'm just a total moron for even questioning the options venomancers are given. Please, I'm so sorry for trying to find a solution that would please everyone. I truly am an idiot, aren't I.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2520089001&dateline=1235021362[/SIGPIC]
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    The problem is fundamental....Most people wouldn't care at all..if the bleed wasn't bugged. However thats just the pvp aspect. While the PVE aspect is destroying Barbarians..or causing them to take a back seat to a Veno pet. So, While this might seem like an easy fix (its not) It wouldn't solve the problem that has arisen, and caused Barbarians to quit.
  • Kamikiri - Lost City
    Kamikiri - Lost City Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jitora - Lost City wrote: »
    The problem is fundamental....Most people wouldn't care at all..if the bleed wasn't bugged. However thats just the pvp aspect. While the PVE aspect is destroying Barbarians..or causing them to take a back seat to a Veno pet. So, While this might seem like an easy fix (its not) It wouldn't solve the problem that has arisen, and caused Barbarians to quit.

    Jit is my hero, He tanked Mantavip! b:thanks
    Back on a serious note: Yes, alot of barbs give up or quit before hitting a high level. We are suppose to be in demand, yet who needs us when a herc can do the job while the cleric takes a smoke break.
    Game needs more high barbs! Determination, Support, and encouragement!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ಙೆ_ಙೆ Rage sauce face, it's my expression everytime you necro a thread. ~Made by Konariraiden!
  • Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear
    Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear Posts: 802 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This is exactly what I keep saying over and over again. Introduce comparable items to the other classes, items that DON'T directly compete with the phoenix and hercules, and the problem is solved. Nobody has offered me a solid reason as to why it would not work, but instead people say, "You're an idiot", or something comparable (ironically enough, the people who say these things are always venomancers).

    Venomancer always complain whenever anyone protests that venomancers get the option to use these ultra-powerful pets, yet they don't understand at all why people playing other classes get irritated in the first place. Yeah, **** the other classes! Like so many venos keep saying, if you think venos are so powerful, then **** the other classes and switch to a veno! This game doesn't need anything else!

    Thats not true of all us Veno's in your other thread I had the idea that maybe all classes should have something they could also buy if they wanted, to make their class special.

    We can't all be lumped into one group. Here is something I don't think any of us have taken into consideration in these debates. The percentage of us players that play PW or any other game for that matter that are actually active on the forums is low. We assume when we see a bunch of people on the forums all whining and crying, that hmm I guess everyone feels the same. When the fact really is I think the majority of the people seriously active on the forums are the trouble makers, negative nellie's, and people who just want to do anything they can to stand out from the crowd and be noticed. With just a few thrown in that are just average Joe's and Jane's who use the forums for less dubious reasons. Then we just assume wow cuz the malcontents all say it's so, it must be so. The typical person, with no axe to grind with anybody isn't very likely to be an activist.

    Case in point US politics. Liberals are more likely to march on Washington for any little cause. **** rights, anti-war, you name it. When is the last time you seen a million or more Republicans March on anywhere, for anything? lol. It doesn't mean wow the Liberals must be in vast majority and therefore must be right, just because they are more seen and heard.

    My point being, it's usually always those who are the most visible, and the loudest that get all the attention. Thus being the ones who end up getting things changed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will never do anything in this world without courage.
    It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.
    ~Aristotle
  • Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear
    Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear Posts: 802 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I don't know! However, the options are endless, really. Go take a look at the thread I made ("Part 2 of the veno argument"), vote in the poll, and voice your opinion.

    Maybe archers could get an endless supply of arrows. Maybe wizards could get a reduction on the MP cost of skills. Maybe barbarians could get a Flesh Ream that deals double damage or double length. Maybe blademasters could an increase in attack rate. I don't know, but there are too many different things to think of that could be implemented in the game, priced at whatever the price of a nix/herc is, and people would buy them. AND venomancers or the Flesh Ream of their phoenixes wouldn't have to be nerfed. Nobody would have much reason to complain anymore.

    But no, apparently I'm just a total moron for even questioning the options venomancers are given. Please, I'm so sorry for trying to find a solution that would please everyone. I truly am an idiot, aren't I.

    No, but days from now, or however long it takes for those threads of yours to get buried. There will be a bunch of others that will make clone threads, and this veno hatefest will continue as it has, on and on. Your thread all be it, maybe innocent, and honorable in nature. Wouldn't nor couldn't settle it on bit. Whiners gotta whine, if they can't whine I believe they may spontanious combust maybe, lol.

    Back to my OP now, I think the lack of ANY PW official posting an answer to my question, is GLARING!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will never do anything in this world without courage.
    It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.
    ~Aristotle
  • Asgenar - Lost City
    Asgenar - Lost City Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    This is a free game. The devs did not force upon the player to buy an item from the cash shop. They are not responsible for what you do. They have a right to remove whatever they want from the game as they see fit and close the servers without refunding anyone.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »
    This is a free game. The devs did not force upon the player to buy an item from the cash shop. They are not responsible for what you do. They have a right to remove whatever they want from the game as they see fit and close the servers without refunding anyone.

    Very true.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Ren - Lost City
    Ren - Lost City Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »
    This is a free game. The devs did not force upon the player to buy an item from the cash shop. They are not responsible for what you do. They have a right to remove whatever they want from the game as they see fit and close the servers without refunding anyone.

    They're only **** over their users, which in turn means less money.
    Nobody likes to buy from jerks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.
  • Asgenar - Lost City
    Asgenar - Lost City Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Ren - Lost City wrote: »
    They're only **** over their users, which in turn means less money.
    Nobody likes to buy from jerks.

    And in the end the devs have done nothing wrong for it is in their power.
  • Ren - Lost City
    Ren - Lost City Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »
    And in the end the devs have done nothing wrong for it is in their power.

    Taking 5 years to fix bleed and then removing it when everyone knew it wouldn't be removed is certainly a big screwup.

    It's a 5 minute fix, no excuses...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Zoe is so full of it, that he must be Karmelia.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Enina - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The only reason for why Venos are such a money-making machine is because they're the only ones who can tame the rare pets needed for all-class pets. So the only way for the five other classes to have a little useless critter following them around, is to pay the venomancers for said critter.
    The rares are on a 12 hour respawn timer. They simply don't spawn often enough for your reason to be a factor. There are six rares which can be made into baby pets. Cub, cat, frog, dog, bunny spawn in two locations so 4 per day (bunny is on a 1h timer, but the price is approx 12x lower). Pig spawns in one location so 2 per day. Even if you assumed every single rare pet was tamed (not killed) and used to create a baby pet and sold (i.e. none used as veno pets), using the market prices for the eggs (the baby pets seem to sell for less than the cost of their component eggs, but I'm doing everything I can to favor your theory) this only represents 17 million coin per day for the entire server.

    If you figure each server has 5000 players, and 33% of them (based on post count in the class forums) are venos, this represents a dividend of only about 10k per veno per day. Again, that's assuming every single rare spawn is turned into a baby pet and sold.

    The non-rare baby pets seem to have a markup of from 50k to 200k. Round up and figure 150k average. Assume every non-veno player buys on average one baby pet (again using 33% as the number of venos), and the average player sticks around for 1 year playing for 200 days. This works out to a dividend of 1500 coin per veno per day.
    Or the venomancer manages to tame a rare pet and can sell it to another venomancer for an almost ridiculous amount of money.
    That's just money moving from one veno to another veno. It's zero-sum - it does nothing to make venos as a class richer. One veno gains a ton of money, another veno loses a ton of money. In fact they lose a small amount due to the transaction fee if it's done via the auction house.
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The rares are on a 12 hour respawn timer. They simply don't spawn often enough for your reason to be a factor. There are six rares which can be made into baby pets. Cub, cat, frog, dog, bunny spawn in two locations so 4 per day (bunny is on a 1h timer, but the price is approx 12x lower). Pig spawns in one location so 2 per day. Even if you assumed every single rare pet was tamed (not killed) and used to create a baby pet and sold (i.e. none used as veno pets), using the market prices for the eggs (the baby pets seem to sell for less, but I'm doing everything I can to favor your theory) this only represents 17 million coin per day for the entire server.

    If you figure each server has 5000 players, and 33% of them (based on post count in the class forums) are venos, this represents a dividend of only about 10k per veno per day.

    The non-rare baby pets seem to have a markup of from 50k to 200k. Round up and figure 150k average. Assume every non-veno player buys on average one baby pet (again using 33% as the number of venos), and the average player sticks around for 1 year playing for 200 days. This works out to a dividend of 1500 coin per veno per day.


    That's just money moving from one veno to another veno. It's zero-sum - it does nothing to make venos as a class richer. One veno gains a ton of money, another veno loses a ton of money.

    Your missing a very important fact.....RARE PETS ARE ONLY TAMEABLE BY VENOS...thereby meaning, only venos have this source of income...Noone else.
  • Fumika - Lost City
    Fumika - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    venos mainly earn money through TT runs if i am not wrong...
    because they have a tank for them self and they also can heal it which lets them solo run TT at an early lvl
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jitora - Lost City wrote: »
    Your missing a very important fact.....RARE PETS ARE ONLY TAMEABLE BY VENOS...thereby meaning, only venos have this source of income...Noone else.

    That is exactly my point. Even if you assume every rare pet that spawns is tamed and sold to non-venos as baby pets, it only represents on average 10k per veno per day of additional income. If you use realistic figures of 1 becoming a baby pet for every 9 used as a battle pet by a veno, it's only 1k of additional income per day for each veno. As an additional source of income, it's a totally negligible advantage.
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That is exactly my point. Even if you assume every rare pet that spawns is tamed and sold to non-venos as baby pets, it only represents on average 10k per veno per day of additional income. If you use realistic figures of 1 becoming a baby pet for every 9 used as a battle pet by a veno, it's only 1k of additional income per day for each veno. As an additional source of income, it's a totally negligible advantage.

    I hereby refuse to feed the troll...b:bye
  • blindeyesniper
    blindeyesniper Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    I'm a Veno and I definitely agree that Phoenix's bug skill needs to be fixed. What about the Hercules? Is it getting nerf too?
  • Blancheneige - Heavens Tear
    Blancheneige - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,494 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Maybe archers could get an endless supply of arrows.

    Archers can make tons of XP while beign afk, watching a movie, reading a book, or what you want.

    Venos cannot.

    1-1
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh
  • Jitora - Lost City
    Jitora - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    blindeyesniper wrote: »
    I'm a Veno and I definitely agree that Phoenix's bug skill needs to be fixed. What about the Hercules? Is it getting nerf too?

    doubtful...but Herc is the real problem..its destroying an entire class.
  • Rundora - Lost City_1243871147
    Rundora - Lost City_1243871147 Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Jitora - Lost City wrote: »
    doubtful...but Herc is the real problem..its destroying an entire class.

    Not really. The phoenix is ruining PVP but no one cares about the herc because Clerics can't heal it. Venomancers have been promoted above BMs to the second-choice tank but still never picked when there is a barb available.
  • godheadslament
    godheadslament Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Archers can make tons of XP while beign afk, watching a movie, reading a book, or what you want.

    You venos are completely overestimating zhen parties. Its not like a zhen party ends up with 50% experience. Get a training esoterica + an order of justice, grind for an hour and you get 80% of the exp you'd get from 1h zhen party.
  • blindeyesniper
    blindeyesniper Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    Why would any Veno pick a Hercules over a Barb for tanking?
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2009
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    godheadslament wrote: »
    You venos are completely overestimating zhen parties. Its not like a zhen party ends up with 50% experience. Get a training esoterica + an order of justice, grind for an hour and you get 80% of the exp you'd get from 1h zhen party.

    We can't get that exp while being afk however.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
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