1 thing straight about cleric stronger than mage

Forp - Heavens Tear

yes it can. it's actually so constructive that you've continued to refer to it in several post.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

DONT. EVER. TELL. ANYONE. WHAT. THEY. MUST. TO. DO. Get it? It's not your squad channel after all.

he can, if you dont like being a support dont be a cleric. I have a friend who was pure mag with no heals. After a while he learned that everyone needed a healer. He is balancing things out now so he can be a better healer.

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

IT DEPENDS. Cleric can't outdmg a wiz against, say, water mob, especially if wiz have undine strike. No one can, in fact. So archer and veno are not DD anymore? ROFL. Take BM with maxed marrow magical on, what can wiz do if he does not have 2 sparks? Now cleric easily outdamages wizard with just a plumeshot.

thats why wiz has blade tempest, and if it is maxed a wiz should have a few decent maxed out skills

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, thats why cleric have wield thunder and tempest. To heal better. Lol. Cleric have MORE attack spells than healing ones. I don't tell you that cleric is not healer, but so don't tell me that "cleric is healing based and is not attacker" sh*t. "Healing-based" char cannot wipe out fb faster than wizard and cannot bring down enemies in pvp in two shots.

no they do not. they have few attacks but a bunch of buffs and heals. correct me if im wrong its about 7 attacks? and like rest is heals. wizards have a wider pool of moves so we can just switch element just like avater lolz jk

and i can solo fb's bosses 10 lvls+ of it (like i can solo fb 19 at lvl 29, fb 29 at lvl 39 etc.)

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

ROFLMAO. Time to cooldown, what a surprise. You want to tell me that wiz (or any other class) have attacks that do not require cooldown time?

clerics has so few moves that a 10 second cool down screws them(example not really true at least i dont think)

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

This is not exactly true. There are more attacks, yes. But not THAT more. Wizard cannot spam attacks of some chosen element, except of earth, so in PvE he really outdamages cleric only against metal and water mobs - two of six types. And wiz is totally helpless against magical resistant mobs. In pvp, wider choice of elements is not an advantage at all. What makes wiz POTENTIALLY better dmg dealer in pvp, it is essential sutra for insane spike damage. But in fact it is not about char skills, it is about player skill. Wizard that uses sutra here and there when it is not needed is far worse DD than thinking cleric that wisely uses his debuffs and attacks and shield and whatnot.

thats why a wizard has more than 1 element and i only lose to one cleric, and he is 10 lvls above me. and magic resist mobsb:chuckle i laugh as i 3 shot them rinnve get to my lvl and then you can make comments

im assuming you are a new player because you dont seem to know much but its not my place to say but if you wish to tell me that would help out very much. Cleric is a support class. It may seem small at first but its a big job that no one wants to do but someone has to. PWI wouldnt flow with out clerics that is why we must treat them like gold. cleric can not outdamage a wizard because it is not its job to. a cleric is suppose to keep the WHOLE party alive, including themselves.

wizards are endgamers so yes a cleric can outdamage at lower lvls (i bring in my friend who is a cleric at lvl 51) at first when he was lvl 2x and i was 1x he out damaged me by 10 million miles. as we started to lvl we made small leaps in power. around lvl 30 he was making leaps and i was making jumps. right now im about .5k damage away from him. im not even at lvl 70 where wiz true powers awake.

srry i checked it but my english isnt the best. its like a la wiz, its a jokeb:chuckle until it critsb:shocked

btw it crit yet b:laugh

samasalao

A last thing, demon spirit gift:

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/9642

says the following:

"Magic defense increased by 150% for 10 seconds".

I think thats the correct description, is not magic attack!, I feel sorry for those who picked demon based only on that skill, then again I may be wrong since I have yet to see the skill in the game (as someone already said, is DAMN HARD to get).

Advent_fox - Sanctuary

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol as expected, this simple question offends you for sum weird reason it is JUST a question and it's JUST a game chillax.

and Rundora remember 1 thing a full attack cleric has better heals than non attack clerics and remember It's only a question becuase Im curious I AM NOT AN FAC CLERIC lol

can we please stop calling them full attack and full heal. . because neither exists

its simply called a full Int build, and then from there all the other combos

Kiwi - Harshlands

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Lolwut? Maxed razors deals just the same damage as two maxed plume shots - and every decent wizard of +/- same lvl and equipment (I was 70lvl FAC) need at least THREE plume shot (2nd sparked of course). That is without charm, with it on - five. Only when razors crit you can PROBABLY bring down a wizard with one shot. (Or when wiz is full mag with really ****ty equipment, but I do not consider that.)

full mag is the proper way to play a mg.

feather razors level 10 does not do double a plume arrow's damage, it does more. combine that with double spark and the -30% pdef debuff and the robe mage wont survive. remember you sleep at around 51% to bypass the charm.

Rinnve - Lost City

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

he can, if you dont like being a support dont be a cleric. I have a friend who was pure mag with no heals. After a while he learned that everyone needed a healer. He is balancing things out now so he can be a better healer.

You just sayed that no one needs a wiz or an archer, which is obviously wrong. Yes, healing cleric is welcome everywhere, but so it is good DD. If you mastered attacking side of a cleric, if you are able to not just pew pew on assist but to lure mobs, to save healer's **** from patrol with your debuffs and 20 sec tanking mode, or to bring down boss's guard with one powerful tempest while tank is in tortoise mode - then you'll be as welcome as any healer.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no they do not. they have few attacks but a bunch of buffs and heals. correct me if im wrong its about 7 attacks? and like rest is heals.

Rest in what? 7 attacks, 4 debuff (they are also not for healing lol) on the one hand; 5 heals (I don't count completely useless first heal), 4 buffs, purify and ress on the other. 11 attacking spells and 11 defending.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wizards have a wider pool of moves so we can just switch element just like avater lolz jk

It's a wider, yes, but - i repeat it - not that wider so to make wizards so much better DDs than clerics. (In pvp wizards are potencially better DDs but not because wider choice of spells. It's spike damage. With sutra wizard can deal damage fast enough to "break" hp charm.)

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

clerics has so few moves that a 10 second cool down screws them(example not really true at least i dont think)

What you are talking about? Main workhorse spells of cleric and wizard (plume/cyclone and pyrogram/gush) are nearly the same, they are different only in element and lower cooldown time of plume so it can be spammed. Main slow but powerful nukes are also similar: wield thunder deals about 5% lesser dmg and casts about 5% faster than sandstorm; cooldown of both spells is 6 sec. The same goes for ultimates (power of cleric's tempest is comparable only to water dragon, all other ultimates of all other classes are weaker except for barb's - it's of course when he does not miss lol).

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

thats why a wizard has more than 1 element and i only lose to one cleric, and he is 10 lvls above me.

LIES. Every decent cleric under about 85-90lvl can bring down every wizard of +/- same lvl and equipment with 3-5 plume shots. I've did this many times from 40 to 67.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and magic resist mobsb:chuckle i laugh as i 3 shot them

LIES. You 3 shot ordinary mobs, not magic resistant. When I play wiz, I simply do not touch them, they are tougher than those with increased life.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

rinnve get to my lvl and then you can make comments

Oh-oh, don't say that. I played 70 wannabe-FAC (supported quite a lot after 60 due to lack of clerics) and 47 vit wizard, not to mention my 100+ experiments on some private server, so I know what I tell of.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

PWI wouldnt flow with out clerics that is why we must treat them like gold. cleric can not outdamage a wizard because it is not its job to. a cleric is suppose to keep the WHOLE party alive, including themselves.

Let me say it in other words. "We need healing clerics, so we must not allow any cleric ever think about other roles; if someone've made a mistake of rolling a cleric, we must push him to healing role because we need healers and they do not need us because they are also DDs." Sounds quite selfish, right? If someone rolled a cleric and wants to be a DD, just imagine that he/she rolled a wizard - a special kind of wizard that can also heal like a cleric (and even DD cleric will eventually heal here and there, just because being only DD and nothing more is boring like hell).

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

right now im about .5k damage away from him. im not even at lvl 70 where wiz true powers awake.

Please, PLEASE do not tell me some bullsh!t like that. PW's mechanics are quite simple, all spells are described in details, so anyone can calculate real difference in damage. There is nothing special happening with wizard's dmg so it goes skyhigh. May be you are happy of higher dmg of your slow earth spells but calculate DPS - it's just the same in general, lower in some circumstances and higher in other. As a cleric i've partied with wizards many times for grinding/questing and for fbs, and i've never ever noticied that my damage is significantly lower.

Rinnve - Lost City

Kiwi - Harshlands wrote: »

full mag is the proper way to play a mg.
feather razors level 10 does not do double a plume arrow's damage, it does more.

Plume shot: "Inflicts physical damage equal to your base magic attack plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1379.6."
Razor: "Inflicts physical damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 2258.2."
If base magic attack is X and weapon attack is Y, then maxed razor deals X + 2*Y + 2258.2 and two plume shots deals 2*X + 2*Y + 2759,2 which is obviously higher than razor. Sleeping a mage around 51% of charm make sence though, when mage is asleep razor deals just the same dmg as 2 plume shots - but in one burst that can kill if mage is weakened. (But I personally do not believe in razors as mage-killer, sparked plumes are good enough.)

And this is off the topic, but full mag is WRONG way to play MG unless you like to be pwned by everyone OR unless you are refining your equipment like hell.

Forp - Heavens Tear

so what i'm getting is:

mizuouni is completely cluess
kiwi is right
rinnve, you're one of the moronic, ignorant fools just like mystic that believe a cleric is better on every aspect. shut up.

Rinnve - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

rinnve, you're one of the moronic, ignorant fools just like mystic that believe a cleric is better on every aspect. shut up.

LMAO. Forp, if you have something to say, then just say it. And if you don't, then just stay silent.

And before you'll try to say something meaning(less), try to read CAREFULLY what I've been saying. I do not say that cleric is better on every aspect, I do say just the opposite.

Shano - Lost City

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Plume shot: "Inflicts physical damage equal to your base magic attack plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1379.6."
Razor: "Inflicts physical damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 2258.2."
If base magic attack is X and weapon attack is Y, then maxed razor deals X + 2*Y + 2258.2 and two plume shots deals 2*X + 2*Y + 2759,2 which is obviously higher than razor. Sleeping a mage around 51% of charm make sence though, when mage is asleep razor deals just the same dmg as 2 plume shots - but in one burst that can kill if mage is weakened. (But I personally do not believe in razors as mage-killer, sparked plumes are good enough.)

And this is off the topic, but full mag is WRONG way to play MG unless you like to be pwned by everyone OR unless you are refining your equipment like hell.

zzzz show us your real char.. nub

Forp - Heavens Tear

you basically said that the only thing that makes a wizard better is sutra, which is false. and i doubt you know anything about a wizard if you think that to be true. hell, given your level, you're probably mystic.

samasalao

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with going pure magic, not only magic improves your heal but also your damage, if you are pure magic your ironheart will heal you so much that a single monster of your own level wont be able to tick your hp charm no matter how many times he hits you, if the monster hits very hard or is a curse spammer ( like that miniboss close to immo camp) a couple or three ironhearts will keep your hp maxed even under heavy fire.

There is no wrong way to build your character, build it as you like, do whatever you like with it is your choice.

Rinnve - Lost City

Shano - Lost City wrote: »

zzzz show us your real char.. nub

Are you satisfied? (I've nothing to do with those BLOODMOON, it's coincidence lol).

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you basically said that the only thing that makes a wizard better is sutra, which is false.

I've said that ONE thing that makes wiz better is sutra (and wider choice of spells so they are spammable under sutra, but if there is no sutra, those spells will not help even just a bit). Other thing is Force of Will. None of those do anything with... "simple" dmg. If you want to tell that wizard is really better on dmg, then I want you to shut up. (I DO know about undine strike, but if wizard cannot render himself useful without undine, he is really useless - even when with undine he deals some significant damage.)

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and i doubt you know anything about a wizard if you think that to be true. hell, given your level, you're probably mystic.

Hell, I've not playing wiz till 45 BUT i've fought them quite a lot, and I do know what is a wizard under 59 (a food for any pk), after 59 (a food for pk that can sometimes strike back) and after 70 (a food for pk that can eat pk easily).

Rinnve - Lost City

samasalao wrote: »

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with going pure magic

Yes of course, but there is one thing. If you want to be invited to 60XX, you must have at least 2k hp. That's quite expensive for pure magic. For 68XX, you must have at least 2.5k hp, 3k better. This is even more expensive, and so it goes on and on and on. In fact, only build viable on latter lvls is vit, unless you go after some really heavy refirement.

Forp - Heavens Tear

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

I've said that ONE thing that makes wiz better is sutra (and wider choice of spells so they are spammable under sutra, but if there is no sutra, those spells will not help even just a bit). Other thing is Force of Will. None of those do anything with... "simple" dmg. If you want to tell that wizard is really better on dmg, then I want you to shut up. (I DO know about undine strike, but if wizard cannot render himself useful without undine, he is really useless - even when with undine he deals some significant damage.)

so, by what you're saying here, the only useful skills a wizard has is force of will, sutra, and undine strike? do you know how to play a wiz? er, do you know 1 over 20?

samasalao

let me say it again. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going pure magic.

As I said use citrines/garnets (beautiful or averages) and refine your gear a bit, by the time you reach 80+ your gear wont be ultra crappy and you can survive everything so long you dont neglect your gear and yes you have to refine your gear even if you are not pure magic.

Going pure magic your heal will be stronger and your damage will be stronger too, do I have to repeat my post? Have spare gear with +def and +hp (rings saky with citrines spare gear with less magic and more hp etc etc etc) for bosses like soul banisher and everything will be ok.

If you know how to play your character even with 5 vit you will seldom die. sorry is the last thing that I post about the same thing.

If you think you need vit then for gods sake put more vit, there is nothing wrong with adding more vit, just let me say something again just in case:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with going pure magic.

Kiwi - Harshlands

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Plume shot: "Inflicts physical damage equal to your base magic attack plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1379.6."
Razor: "Inflicts physical damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 2258.2."
If base magic attack is X and weapon attack is Y, then maxed razor deals X + 2*Y + 2258.2 and two plume shots deals 2*X + 2*Y + 2759,2 which is obviously higher than razor. Sleeping a mage around 51% of charm make sence though, when mage is asleep razor deals just the same dmg as 2 plume shots - but in one burst that can kill if mage is weakened. (But I personally do not believe in razors as mage-killer, sparked plumes are good enough.)

And this is off the topic, but full mag is WRONG way to play MG unless you like to be pwned by everyone OR unless you are refining your equipment like hell.

yawn. read it again, you spark. the 200% weapon damage makes feather razors deal much more damage when u fury.

you are a level 7x who thinks he knows the game. if you arent full int as an mg, why are you playing one?

Advent_fox - Sanctuary

Kiwi - Harshlands wrote: »

yawn. read it again, you spark. the 200% weapon damage makes feather razors deal much more damage when u fury.

you are a level 7x who thinks he knows the game. if you aren't full int as an mg, why are you playing one?

because they want to be different. . why is there this unwritten rule that apparently you have to go full int as a Wiz to be good. . I know tons of people who dont go that route and are good and having fun.

and as long as the person is having fun, there playing there character right

b:victory

Devoted - Lost City

Advent_fox - Sanctuary wrote: »

because they want to be different. . why is there this unwritten rule that apparently you have to go full int as a Wiz to be good. . I know tons of people who dont go that route and are good and having fun.

and as long as the person is having fun, there playing there character right

b:victory

thats a good response.. from a pve server.

Advent_fox - Sanctuary

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

thats a good response.. from a pve server.

and because were on a pve server that makes any difference why??
someone on a pvp server could play and build they want and I'm sure have a blast with it as well

the only reason most people don't choose pvp servers is for the soul reason there are a select few people lvl 90's or so that decided its funny to literally spend all day killing lvl 30 players. It's all fair and cool, I understand the fun that can be had, but some people choose not to deal with it because it's a waste of their real life time

so it in no way makes them less of a player to go on a pve server kiddo b:bye

Rinnve - Lost City

Kiwi - Harshlands wrote: »

yawn. read it again, you spark. the 200% weapon damage makes feather razors deal much more damage when u fury.
you are a level 7x who thinks he knows the game. if you arent full int as an mg, why are you playing one?

Why so? Spark increases matk, it has nothing to do with fixed parts of spells.

And I don't get this thing about full int mg 0_0

samasalao wrote: »

Going pure magic your heal will be stronger and your damage will be stronger too, do I have to repeat my post?

It is NOT that stronger. Matk on 80 is about 1-1.5k higher, so all heals are stronger by about 300-500. But >1k hp difference... and yes, you must refine even if you are vit build.

Just use pwcalc.ru/pwi and calculate how much you must to refine full mag build for staying alive in HH. It's not worth it. Stronger, stronger, stronger... Dead cleric heals ZERO hp.

Advent_fox - Sanctuary

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Why so? Spark increases matk, it has nothing to do with fixed parts of spells.

And I don't get this thing about full int mg 0_0


It is NOT that stronger. Matk on 80 is about 1-1.5k higher, so all heals are stronger by about 300-500. But >1k hp difference... and yes, you must refine even if you are vit build.

Just use pwcalc.ru/pwi and calculate how much you must to refine full mag build for staying alive in HH. It's not worth it. Stronger, stronger, stronger... Dead cleric heals ZERO hp.

Full Int Mage is I believe what they meant b:thanks

Rinnve - Lost City

Advent_fox - Sanctuary wrote: »

Full Int Mage is I believe what they meant b:thanks

Ah, these paper folks dying when someone highlevel flies nearby?.. b:chuckle

Forp - Heavens Tear

rinnve, no cleric can survive certain parts of hh. take 1-3 mirror: 78 full vit and 79 light armor, both dead. you would have to have some 30m+ gears to survive that boss. some bosses have random resetting target abilities that do aoe damage upon impact, killing everything around that 1 person. guess what happens when a cleric gets targetted? 2k base hp at 70 is all you need in the pve enviroment.

pvp, on the other hand, requires you to have something around 3k base at 70, just to survive long enough to tick your opponents charm. doing that as light is about as cheap as doing it as pure.

Rinnve - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

2k base hp at 70 is all you need in the pve enviroment.

I don't really know about HH, only have been told of (have been in 1-1 of course but it's very simple). But as of pve, I've tried to heal on that big eye boss in mountains (don't know how it's named in PWI)... it's aoe killed me with 2k base hp.

Forp - Heavens Tear

you're not suppose to get close to krimson due to it having a short-ranged physical attack that one hits any and EVERYONE not in heavy armor. a few 8x archers/clerics with high-end gears and their shell skills up might live a few shots, but not for long.

Rinnve - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you're not suppose to get close to krimson due to it having a short-ranged physical attack that one hits any and EVERYONE not in heavy armor. a few 8x archers/clerics with high-end gears and their shell skills up might live a few shots, but not for long.

Dunno about attack, just got the facts. I as 70 full mag cleric with 2k hp cannot survive it's aoe, and 6X (65 AFAIR) vit cleric healed there just fine.

Forp - Heavens Tear

but WHY would you be close enough to take his hits anyways? a vit cleric wont survive even a single hit. not at 70, at least. he's doing at least 4k damage to robe i think.

the aoe is very short ranged, and debuffs you to 0 pdef. a cleric should never be close enough to be hit by it.

Eliathel - Lost City

I dont see why so much discussion.

Vit build is the only build....
And cleric cannot outdmg wizards
If I design something to deal dmg, the thing I designed to heal wont outdmg

I dont like the way how Forp post, but hes right.

76 Cleric resetting to Vit Build just to survive.

Rinnve - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the aoe is very short ranged, and debuffs you to 0 pdef. a cleric should never be close enough to be hit by it.

Hmm, may be this boss was changed since then; it's aoe whas not short ranged (only archer at max distance was not hit I believe) and only tank was debuffed. Or may be I just imagine things lol, it was half an year ago after all.