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Legerity - Sanctuary

Wild_kitten - Lost City wrote: »

Sure, go ahead and comfort your self! After all, that is all you got left! b:victory


'night b:bye

Funny how you said you're not posting anymore 20mintues ago, then come back to post that. One may think that you're doing so to comfort yourself. I guess I ain't talking to myself as you assumed.

Also, one who cannot keep their word will not get far in life. Goodluck in life, little one.

mogwai

to xerom,

the point is that it (exploiting the bug) is against the TOS

before PWI came online, we were assured by in several threads by GM's & MOD's that the main reason for country wide IP bans were to help prevent the manipulation of the market. I for one, found comfort in that idea.

& yes, during the exploiting, I was on...commented 2 times about the on goings in public chat, then someone actually suggested that i leave.

botting is an exploit, do you want to do that?..i mean by the content of your post, i'd be lead to believe you would--because you can.

LMAO

Legerity - Sanctuary

I do not intend to be intimidating, but I suggest you learn a bit more about TW before commenting

xerom wrote: »

...

4. Lost your TW Bid it just means you have more time to level and make more money so you can bid more this week.

...

This just shows how much you know about TW.

xerom wrote: »

...

Just my Two Cents

Probably not worth much anymore since the exploit. b:laugh

Everything else was covered by mogwai pretty nicely.

@mogwai's edit: probably a GM merged threads.

@Wild_kitten: you still haven't slept after saying 40minutes ago you're going to bed? Sheesh, looks like you really did back out rather than go to bed. And about your saying, I think that was meant for the situation of strategic retreating, not running away like you did. I even know that saying because it's partly of the Sun Tzu war manual and the Thirty-Six Stratagems. Continuing to edit your posts doesn't strengthen your argument. Keep trying to insult me if you may, but I can assure you that your efforts are epic fail.

About me quoting you, I quoted your first original one when you hit submit, not after your 50th edit. Some don't know how forums work, do they? =/

Melethiel - Lost City

Cbf reading all these pages.

Someone please summarise in less then 30 words about whats happening in this thread. :P

xerom

mogwai wrote: »

to xerom,

the point is that it (exploiting the bug) is against the TOS

before PWI came online, we were assured by in several threads by GM's & MOD's that the main reason for country wide IP bans were to help prevent the manipulation of the market. I for one, found comfort in that idea.

& yes, during the exploiting, I was on...commented 2 times about the on goings in public chat, then someone actually suggested that i leave.

botting is an exploit, do you want to do that?..i mean by the content of your post, i'd be lead to believe you would--because you can.

LMAO

No I think the point is. I wouldn't of know of the bug. I would of figured that I could buy gold for 400k and sell it for 500-600k why that was no clue. because to exploit you'd have to know everything including what the problem was right. I would of done what a busniess person would of done and thats buy for a good price and sell it more

Legerity - Sanctuary

Melethiel - Lost City wrote: »

Cbf reading all these pages.

Someone please summarise in less then 30 words about whats happening in this thread. :P

Probably can't fulfill your 30 word criteria but here it goes.

People were complaining about the solutions the Devs took, caused a huge riot and some rollback petition started. 10billions coins were removed and 70 accounts being suspended.

People are concerned that all traces cannot be removed by manual investigation and hence all the complaints and 40 pages of talk.

Some people found the downtime unfair for TWs and then had their fair share of complaints.

xarfox replied with no rollback but they will continue to investigate. Appropriate action will be taken yadda yadda [insert generic GM replies].

Pureentity - Heavens Tear

I think the gms did a great thing by not doing a rollback just because it's not fair to the people that got there money, exp. ect. without cheating, hacking, w/e. b:pleased

Tigriss - Heavens Tear

This is still going

Falls - Sanctuary

Pureentity - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think the gms did a great thing by not doing a rollback just because it's not fair to the people that got there money, exp. ect. without cheating, hacking, w/e. b:pleased

I think maybe you are confused as to the definition of a rollback. It doesn't mean going back down to level 0 xD. Just taking the game back to the previous point where they have a back up of it, which if they are like any normal game company, is when the servers shut down on Thursday night. So you were gonna lose a lot of money and coin? I'm losing a lot more of it right now by having to pay 50% more for everything...so yeah.

argabargy

xerom wrote: »

Man I'm tired of everyone complaining how the bug screwed everything up.

Let me just point some things out for you guys
1. For Starters people who ABUSED the bug got PUNISHED.

2. So what if people Charged Zhen and got gold and sold it for millions. Look at it this way. Why did Goverments all over the world approve of Billions in bailout cash, and then give most of the money to big companys. Because its a trickling effect. Who cares if some 1-10000 players got millions. Look at the Faction Nerf who gets 150 million coins weekly Those millions have to get spent right I mean people with millions and don't spend it is the same as a person with no coins and can't spend it. Whos gonna run TT/Legendardy gear if it isn't bought. Whos spend time getting mats if noone buys it. The point is people having money means it's good for you to. Since in the end unless you don't sell anything all of you are gonna get a peice of that million to.

3. Was I on to get a billion coins no. But I'm pretty sure 90% of you complaining wouldn't be if you had been on, Heck I would of, since from what I've read people would buy gold for 300-400k and sell it for 600k hence you only need 300-400k to start the profit train. So don't complain about people who charged Zhen got the best deal a lvl 40 could of sold all his mats eq and weapons and could of gotten 400k easly and you to my friend would of made millions if not billions by buying and selling gold.

4. Lost your TW Bid it just means you have more time to level and make more money so you can bid more this week.

5. No rollback wtf How many people were activly on between when the server came up and went down maybe 5000-20000 people only. Of those 5000-20000 How many people used the Auction house? Maybe 2500-5000 and of that 2500-5000 how many people figured out what was going on or could was willing to sell everything they had item wise up, and buy and sell gold or could afford to spend money. maybe 100-500 players if even that and of that 100-500 players how many of them made more then a couple million coins. so on a WHOLE It didn't affect that many people.

6. WTF the econmey of the game is screwed forever...I think not. People buy and sell stuff everyday. gold is traded and bought everyday prices will go up prices will go down. Today gold prices were between 120k-160k for selling and buying was 110k-125k which is getting close to what it was 4 days ago when gold was selling for 107-115k and people were willing to buy for 103-105k. The only Big lost I can see was the High level gear in the auction house which was bought out. But you know what! The only People who could afford it right away would of been the People Abusing the bug which means they would of bought 80-90% of ALL the high level gear/mats/molds. AND GUESS WHAT!!! they got BAN which means its useless to them. The people selling still got the coins from it and THEY WERE SELLING THE ITEM anyways. so the person selling it had no use of the item anymore.

7.GM's You guys could of acted alittle faster but heck everything takes time and The Gms have a boss and that boss has a boss which in turn has anothor boss which reports to anothor boss. So even if the GMS request to shut the server down right away which has to go ALL the way up the chain. Which then takes a meeting of all the high lvl bosses which takes them time to gather and attend. At that point they have a group meeting on what choices they have, but only after playing the blame game for about an hour. so after hours of coffee and donuts and a big group hug and pats on the back. That come to the point that things need to be shut down which the Gms asked in the first place which then has to go all the way back down the ladder. I work in a cooraption and to and that my friend is how things work.

8. My last point for those of you who want to quit because there was no rollback which is such a minor point. Please do hopfully archo won't lag me as much when I do my crazy stones quest.

Just my Two Cents

As must as I hate trolling, I just couldn't resist

1. not necessarily. If they were smart (I would hope at least 1 out of the 80 were smart) they coulda just did this on an alt account, then transfer/spread out the gains to other people/accounts

2. So if your using that analogy... the money gained from TW is actually worked for, so its like a company(guild) getting profit, and paying its employees(the guildmembers). And going along with your example, yes the government borrowed money, key word being borrowed, for the bailouts. And like here, there are plenty of people pissed in the real world. Again though, the money was given to a company to run, pay employees, etc.... and not to an individual to do whatever they want, as is the case here.

what people are complaining about is inflation caused by the whole debacle, something that govs irl would try to prevent. any country that undergoes 30%+ inflation in 1 day is more or less doomed.

3. I'm gonna agree with the people complaining here. And I was actually on very early when this happened(gold was still 150k or so). And I'll admit, I made a pretty penny(a very big shiny gold and platinum diamond studded penny) doing exactly that. it just simply isn't fair to the people that weren't on or didn't want to exploit. Personally, I did it just to see how much I could make, and fully expected a rollback.

4. er... ya.... you should read the reason why they're angry more carefully

5. When there's huge amounts of inflation, it affects every single person on the server. Don't see why you can't understand that.

6. You're missing the point... many people with the coin generated from that bug that wouldn't have those huge amounts otherwise, will inflate the prices of everything over potentially the next few weeks or months, making it much much harder for anyone that didn't profit from this whole thing to get molds and whatnot.

7. This is probably true, but I can't help but think they let it drag out a little longer since people were buying gold to sell for coins. They don't release any info though, so we will never know.

8. I personally am making it less laggy for you too =D
It's not just what happened, its how it was handled overall. I guess they are out to make a profit in the end, and I can see how that could potentially have led them to their decision. In any case, it was fun while it lasted.

and before anyone asks, no I'm not going to give my stuff away, It's my way of helping the situation a tiny minuscule bit, plus I'm too lazy to log on.

xerom

argabargy wrote: »

As must as I hate trolling, I just couldn't resist

1. not necessarily. If they were smart (I would hope at least 1 out of the 80 were smart) they coulda just did this on an alt account, then transfer/spread out the gains to other people/accounts

2. So if your using that analogy... the money gained from TW is actually worked for, so its like a company(guild) getting profit, and paying its employees(the guildmembers). And going along with your example, yes the government borrowed money, key word being borrowed, for the bailouts. And like here, there are plenty of people pissed in the real world. Again though, the money was given to a company to run, pay employees, etc.... and not to an individual to do whatever they want, as is the case here.

what people are complaining about is inflation caused by the whole debacle, something that govs irl would try to prevent. any country that undergoes 30%+ inflation in 1 day is more or less doomed.

3. I'm gonna agree with the people complaining here. And I was actually on very early when this happened(gold was still 150k or so). And I'll admit, I made a pretty penny(a very big shiny gold and platinum diamond studded penny) doing exactly that. it just simply isn't fair to the people that weren't on or didn't want to exploit. Personally, I did it just to see how much I could make, and fully expected a rollback.

4. er... ya.... you should read the reason why they're angry more carefully

5. When there's huge amounts of inflation, it affects every single person on the server. Don't see why you can't understand that.

6. You're missing the point... many people with the coin generated from that bug that wouldn't have those huge amounts otherwise, will inflate the prices of everything over potentially the next few weeks or months, making it much much harder for anyone that didn't profit from this whole thing to get molds and whatnot.

7. This is probably true, but I can't help but think they let it drag out a little longer since people were buying gold to sell for coins. They don't release any info though, so we will never know.

8. I personally am making it less laggy for you too =D
It's not just what happened, its how it was handled overall. I guess they are out to make a profit in the end, and I can see how that could potentially have led them to their decision. In any case, it was fun while it lasted.

and before anyone asks, no I'm not going to give my stuff away, It's my way of helping the situation a tiny minuscule bit, plus I'm too lazy to log on.

1. accounts are under invesigation I'm sure the PW staff will sort things out

2...the point is those people who made millions are still gonna spend it. Its the same as the goverment paying it's employees what do people with millions and billions do in real life? they spend it on goods and services...

3. Which means you were on and you fully understood what was happening which means you cheated the system compared to people who didn't know what was going on and sold gold only. because they could make money

4.TWS you win some you lose some enough said

5. Huge amount of inflation? I see about an 5-10% increase in prices right now. from what it was a week ago. but it's the same prices it was durning the Xmas event. Can't grind solo anymore because you can't buy an hp charm? good you can grab a cleric. Can't gain 2 levels a day by zhenning for 10 hours because you can't afford the mp charms good go grind solo and make more money. your account won't expire it's a free game play again tommrow

6. I already understood that point and you missed mine, and you just STATED what I said. your right on it could take weeks and maybe even a month but IT WILL GO BACK TO NORMAL.

7. okay trust me on this point they are GM's only not saying they have no power but when it comes to shutting down or closing a game THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY unless it's okayed by people over them. I work in a 34 billion dollar company we can't even shut a comptuer thats spreading a virus all over the network without getting the okay 3-4 hours later. Just that much red tap

8. Thanks for making it less laggy

Falls - Sanctuary

xerom wrote: »

1. accounts are under invesigation I'm sure the PW staff will sort things out

2...the point is those people who made millions are still gonna spend it. Its the same as the goverment paying it's employees what do people with millions and billions do in real life? they spend it on goods and services...

3. Which means you were on and you fully understood what was happening which means you cheated the system compared to people who didn't know what was going on and sold gold only. because they could make money

4.TWS you win some you lose some enough said

5. Huge amount of inflation? I see about an 5-10% increase in prices right now. from what it was a week ago. but it's the same prices it was durning the Xmas event. Can't grind solo anymore because you can't buy an hp charm? good you can grab a cleric. Can't gain 2 levels a day by zhenning for 10 hours because you can't afford the mp charms good go grind solo and make more money. your account won't expire it's a free game play again tommrow

6. I already understood that point and you missed mine, and you just STATED what I said. your right on it could take weeks and maybe even a month but IT WILL GO BACK TO NORMAL.

7. okay trust me on this point they are GM's only not saying they have no power but when it comes to shutting down or closing a game THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY unless it's okayed by people over them. I work in a 34 billion dollar company we can't even shut a comptuer thats spreading a virus all over the network without getting the okay 3-4 hours later. Just that much red tap

8. Thanks for making it less laggy

First off its 30-40% on Sanctuary, I don't know where you are.

Secondly, you certainly are quick to dismmiss people's concerns. Just because you may not value something like TWs or your time and money playing, doesn't mean others don't so try not to make that assumption. Also don't assume the degrees of people's displeasure either, by giving them advice as to what they should do.

Thirdly, it doesn't matter what individuals are tasked with fixing the mess, as it is PWI's responsibility. If some executives want to feed the GMs to the lions, then that is their job, and their responsibility. Furthermore, I have no reason to trust them in that they will fix this issue, considering they have made poor decisions the whole way through (IMO).

Driftus - Lost City

Thnx b, i was hoping not about that video.
I just say lets move forward, been playing mmo's for a min or two to realize this happens, unfortunately lots.
Let us stop bashing on one another and get back to it guys.
I have faith the GM's are doing their absolute best at this point to make things correct.

xerom

Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »

First off its 30-40% on Sanctuary, I don't know where you are.

Secondly, you certainly are quick to dismmiss people's concerns. Just because you may not value something like TWs or your time and money playing, doesn't mean others don't so try not to make that assumption. Also don't assume the degrees of people's displeasure either, by giving them advice as to what they should do.

Thirdly, it doesn't matter what individuals are tasked with fixing the mess, as it is PWI's responsibility. If some executives want to feed the GMs to the lions, then that is their job, and their responsibility. Furthermore, I have no reason to trust them in that they will fix this issue, considering they have made poor decisions the whole way through (IMO).

First. I'm on sanc 30-40% then your looking at the wrong catshops. gold from from 107k selling to 136k selling from what I just checked isn't 30-40%

Second I'm not dismissing peoples concerns or trying to tell people what to do. I'm mearly trying to point out thats it's not that big of a problem. that It's only a BIG PROBLEM because people are MAKING it seem like BIG problem. When you really look at big picture of things It's a minor problem. not being able to feed your kids shirmp and lobster everyday because they want it is minor. Not being able to feed your kids at all is a major problem.

Thirdly. Pushing blame dosn't fix anything. all it does is creates unrest. should people get fired maybe, maybe not but for you to want people to get trouble or as you said get thrown to a lion den for a free game gotta consider they've got a family to, and we are all people, people make mistake. If you've never made a mistake in your life then you've got every right to want this to happen

argabargy

xerom wrote: »

1. accounts are under invesigation I'm sure the PW staff will sort things out

2...the point is those people who made millions are still gonna spend it. Its the same as the goverment paying it's employees what do people with millions and billions do in real life? they spend it on goods and services...

3. Which means you were on and you fully understood what was happening which means you cheated the system compared to people who didn't know what was going on and sold gold only. because they could make money

4.TWS you win some you lose some enough said

5. Huge amount of inflation? I see about an 5-10% increase in prices right now. from what it was a week ago. but it's the same prices it was durning the Xmas event. Can't grind solo anymore because you can't buy an hp charm? good you can grab a cleric. Can't gain 2 levels a day by zhenning for 10 hours because you can't afford the mp charms good go grind solo and make more money. your account won't expire it's a free game play again tommrow

6. I already understood that point and you missed mine, and you just STATED what I said. your right on it could take weeks and maybe even a month but IT WILL GO BACK TO NORMAL.

7. okay trust me on this point they are GM's only not saying they have no power but when it comes to shutting down or closing a game THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY unless it's okayed by people over them. I work in a 34 billion dollar company we can't even shut a comptuer thats spreading a virus all over the network without getting the okay 3-4 hours later. Just that much red tap

8. Thanks for making it less laggy

yays let the trolling wars begin!!

1. So, yes, it is possible that they banned/got everyone that actually did abuse the bug. But the coin that the abusers injected into the system is there to stay, and that's where the problem stems from.

2. Yes the difference between giving it to an individual or not is a very big difference, even if the money does "trickle down". Otherwise I'd like to know where to sign up to be the one to receive a billion to spend and improve the economy.

And quite a few people that have "millions and billions" are philanthropists that spend that money to help humanity. I'm pretty sure the people that got the coin will... well... help themselves.

3. Yes, and I'm saying its unfair to others. In effect its robbed everyone that wasn't able to do it/refused to do it.

4. Yes but they got screwed over by special circumstances, so I think its ok to let them whine a bit. Don't think anything will be done about it though.

5. Last I saw it was still a large amount on sanct, at least 20%. I would actually consider 5-10% quite large too. Imagine all your life savings reduced by that amount. 10k and 100k or whatever, just disappearing from your bank account. Don't think you'd be too happy. Even more if you knew it could have been prevented.
I'm sure a large majority of the complaining can afford to go on perfectly fine, its the fact that this situation could have been prevented but wasn't that's pissing them off.

6. yes it will go back, but that's a long time. time that could have been not wasted.

7. Um... wasn't that what I said too? By "they" I meant the higher ups. Sorry for the confusion. If I were to be mad at the GM's, it would be about them trying to cover stuff up.

btw, any chance you'll reveal what company? If that's true, I feel sorry for you, and I would like to short some of that stock =D

8. Your welcome

Falls - Sanctuary

xerom wrote: »

First. I'm on sanc 30-40% then your looking at the wrong catshops. gold from from 107k selling to 136k selling from what I just checked isn't 30-40%

Second I'm not dismissing peoples concerns or trying to tell people what to do. I'm mearly trying to point out thats it's not that big of a problem. that It's only a BIG PROBLEM because people are MAKING it seem like BIG problem. When you really look at big picture of things It's a minor problem. not being able to feed your kids shirmp and lobster everyday because they want it is minor. Not being able to feed your kids at all is a major problem.

Thirdly. Pushing blame dosn't fix anything. all it does is creates unrest. should people get fired maybe, maybe not but for you to want people to get trouble or as you said get thrown to a lion den for a free game gotta consider they've got a family to, and we are all people, people make mistake. If you've never made a mistake in your life then you've got every right to want this to happen

100 to 130 isn't at least a 30% increase?

The degree of a problem is entirely relative (you feel its small, and it may be to you). If we considered this problem next to eternity and the problem of the human condition it sure is damn insignificant, isn't it? Unfortunately, I'm not trying to feed starving kids in 3rd world countries. I'm trying to enjoy a game...and as far as enjoyment for me goes...this economy, and the decisions made by GMs ruined it. Are you going to tell me that it didn't? Are you going to tell me that I am a satisfied customer?

"Blaming" is what the GMs did to the people they banned on the bug they allowed through. Those people didn't necessarily make a decision to harm others when they did, they simply saw an item and a quest that made them lots of money for it. I didn't see any warning in the ToS that said; 'Do not do the Duke Rose Items Quest if it makes you a profit', it was just a loose interpretation of the ToS by PWI, and a desire to have a scapegoat. Same as the people profiting in the Auction House off of bugged Gold, why weren't they banned? They were exploiting the gold bug too, if indirectly, all of their coins came from a bugged quest. That is like being in a squad with a Veno who is glitching Gouf (Where does the fault lie?...I'm looking at you PWI). The only blame I will assign is to the company who both allowed the bugged patch to get through, and then having total control over the game they decided that a roll-back wasn't the best decision, thanks to "information on their side" ($$$). Of course, that being entirely a justification from authority its worth absolutely nothing to me.

argabargy

xerom wrote: »

First. I'm on sanc 30-40% then your looking at the wrong catshops. gold from from 107k selling to 136k selling from what I just checked isn't 30-40%

Second I'm not dismissing peoples concerns or trying to tell people what to do. I'm mearly trying to point out thats it's not that big of a problem. that It's only a BIG PROBLEM because people are MAKING it seem like BIG problem. When you really look at big picture of things It's a minor problem. not being able to feed your kids shirmp and lobster everyday because they want it is minor. Not being able to feed your kids at all is a major problem.

Thirdly. Pushing blame dosn't fix anything. all it does is creates unrest. should people get fired maybe, maybe not but for you to want people to get trouble or as you said get thrown to a lion den for a free game gotta consider they've got a family to, and we are all people, people make mistake. If you've never made a mistake in your life then you've got every right to want this to happen

so..
gold isn't sold in catshops?

and my kids will starve without their shrimp and lobster, they refuse to eat anything else ><
in all seriousness though, its an inconvenience for however long it lasts, and so people will complain about that inconvenience until it goes away.

I think that's more of just people's sense of justice(or revenge, however you want to see it). After all, if someone did something bad, did a crime, you'd want them to pay for it too. Of course, I understand that this is nothing like a crime, but to some people who take the game very seriously it may feel that way.

dongtinh

save your breath, no need for words, action determines all. I bet they would see all the damages by now (income from cash shop and people leaving the game and still more). Rollback should be an easy solution to solve the problems, but they took the hard way. Wonderful game, too bad the management didn't show enough actions to encourage people to stay and feel safe with the money they invested into the game. People are leaving each day and soon I am one of them.

argabargy

dongtinh wrote: »

save your breath, no need for words, action determines all. I bet they would see all the damages by now (income from cash shop and people leaving the game and still more). Rollback should be an easy solution to solve the problems, but they took the hard way. Wonderful game, too bad the management didn't show enough actions to encourage people to stay and feel safe with the money they invested into the game. People are leaving each day and soon I am one of them.

I would like to think that's true, but it doesn't seem that many people are actually quitting, and if anything, the higher gold prices would lead to more gold being sold.

btw, why soon and not just now? Or yesterday?

Phuzzz - Sanctuary

Spent so much Real money on this game, loved it, but after this, I did quit. I just log in now to chat with my good friends in there. Good luck to PW and all, cheers!

Domnorix - Heavens Tear

Why do some people have to make this some sort of a personal issue?.. it make me sick to read these kinda of post. you either agree or disagree or just post what u think about this patch **** up. no need to get aggressive or wasting time to prove others are wrong and your right.
And one other thing is I simply dont understand why do the GMS keep asking ingame players to visit the forums while they are simply not even bothering to post any replies... we dont want to argue with other players we want to argue with you..PWI team

CocoSnow - Lost City

Let us hope that something is being done, otherwise this is horse ****. :P Karma!

Domnorix - Heavens Tear

this system message comes every few minutes Visit (forum link) to get your latest news about PW... and i come to forums and.... where the heck is the latest news????..

Avlokiboss - Sanctuary

to be honest i had no idea there was a bug that was going on i played for like an hour or so then got off and i did see some weird large sums of coins or anything and dont reply to this im not watching the thread

mediumpimpin

Thank you, much appreciated!

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

Wow, instead of doing a rollback and giving themselves a break they decided to try putting the honest players first and only targeting the guilty. b:thanks

Lol... love the vacationing idea.

I completely missed the bug. I wasn't on... o.O

Rollback or not rollback, it's a tough call. I'm sure they're wishing they had done the rollback by now.

Boza_Mishica - Lost City

Uhmmm my 2 cents:

I) Regarding ROLLBACK. As far as modern DBMSs go, a rollback does not require a backup, the newer versions of SQL have an automated transaction memorization logs, that can be used to execute a planed ROLLBACK, and cancel all of COMMIT orders in certain time period. It is a probable case in this as well, I do not think that database as big as MMORPG game's could be made otherwise. Ofc. it demands for certain automated save points definitions, but they are still defined by default value that is not more then 24h period saving.
This is not a website based in some stateless code, its not posible to create a video game without dynamic, allmost fully automated database. From a simple reason that C#, and JAVA(most commonly used in MMORPG development) are programming languages that require a dynamic database. And if there was no transaction log there would be no COMMIT orders execution(no exp gained, no leveling no drops, trades etc, one word no changes to database).
Point? Rollback is always posible, has nothing to do with backing up, DMBS model backs up it self.
I am sorry that I could not explain this any further, I would have to write a book in order to give absolute detailed explanation. And I am not that good at passing knowledge to others. I used caps for certain terms in order to point on them which is commonly done in scientific literature, not to shout. For more details google.

II) I had no idea of a bug and was still playing at the time people cheated, I gained some exp, and am not really ready to give that up that easy. I do not have time to waist by playing same thing over and over again! I got a lot of things to do besides playing games! I am p1ssed by the cheaters, but not that annoyed to want to throw my exp down the drain!

III) But I am indiferent to wether the rollback happens or not, I know what it means to maintain online application that has real-time changes, so I can understand all the benefits and losses of a rollback. And trust me losses are far beyond bigger. On other hand I really hate the point that I see noobs of my level all of a sudden with full legendary gear, riding max speed mounts, and see a lot of people buying those stuff. Unless they are alts(and there's too many of them for that) I see no way they could obtain that amount of coin(not all of them at least) at that level.

So w/e happens, I will still play this game.

IV) And if by any chance I decide to quit, I will not shout it out loud like some people do. Yes its not fair, and yes you loose by this state, but please leave your shouts on this matter on forum. I really do not wanna read these things on WC in game. I do not want people spamming my chatbox in-game with their departure from game, please most of us do not care if you are leaving or not, we do not bug you on WC with our problems, we only ask you not to bug us with yours. thx in advance
Edit:
V) Economy on Lost City is normalising gold goes for 110k to 120k, and as far as I see still dropping, so I believe it will go down to 105k to 110k until the end of the week, that is a state prior to the bug. Other prices are more or less already back to their former state(example hp charms even go for as low as 390k up to some 420k, teles for 11k, Mirages for 25k, DQ elements are even cheaper, Dull Claw is now 4k-4.5k(it was 5k+ before), Rough Fur and silk thread are now 2.5k-3k(they were 3.2k+), and so on).

Best of wishes

PS. Sorry if my English is not perfect, and maybe I did not explain something the correct way, after all I'm European, with Slavic based language. Don't hold it as bad towards me. ty in advance

PSS. This has got nothing to do with my opinion on the matter, I'm only curious:
Why do I only see people from Heavens Tear and Sanctuary on this thread? (Its a serious question, not sarcastic one, in other to prevent miss-understanding) What is different about Lost City, that they do not complain nor communicate in any way on this thread?
I ask this because I see people argue on this all day long on LC even, but almost see none give their post here!

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Boza_Mishica - Lost City wrote: »

Uhmmm my 2 cents:

I) Regarding ROLLBACK. As far as modern DBMSs go, a rollback does not require a backup, the newer versions of SQL have an automated transaction memorization logs, that can be used to execute a planed ROLLBACK, and cancel all of COMMIT orders in certain time period. It is a probable case in this as well, I do not think that database as big as MMORPG game's could be made otherwise. Ofc. it demands for certain automated save points definitions, but they are still defined by default value that is not more then 24h period saving.
This is not a website based in some stateless code, its not posible to create a video game without dynamic, allmost fully automated database. From a simple reason that C#, and JAVA(most commonly used in MMORPG development) are programming languages that require a dynamic database. And if there was no transaction log there would be no COMMIT orders execution(no exp gained, no leveling no drops, trades etc, one word no changes to database).
Point? Rollback is always posible, has nothing to do with backing up, DMBS model backs up it self.
I am sorry that I could not explain this any further, I would have to write a book in order to give absolute detailed explanation. And I am not that good at passing knowledge to others. For more details google.

II) I had no idea of a bug and was still playing at the time people cheated, I gained some exp, and am not really ready to give that up that easy. I do not have time to waist by playing same thing over and over again! I got a lot of things to do besides playing games! I am p1ssed by the cheaters, but not that annoyed to want to throw my exp down the drain!

III) But I am indiferent to wether the rollback happens or not, I know what it means to maintain online application that has real-time changes, so I can understand all the benefits and losses of a rollback. And trust me losses are far beyond bigger. On other hand I really hate the point that I see noobs of my level all of a sudden with full legendary gear, riding max speed mounts, and see a lot of people buying those stuff. Unless they are alts(and there's too many of them for that) I see no way they could obtain that amount of coin(not all of them at least) at that level.

So w/e happens, I will still play this game.

IV) And if by any chance I decide to quit, I will not shout it out loud like some people do. Yes its not fair, and yes you loose by this state, but please leave your shouts on this matter on forum. I really do not wanna read these things on WC in game. I do not want people spamming my chatbox in-game with their departure from game, please most of us do not care if you are leaving or not, we do not bug you on WC with our problems, we only ask you do not bug us with yours. thx in advance

Best of wishes

PS. Sorry if my English is not perfect, and maybe I did not explain something the correct way, after all I'm European, with Slavic based language. Don't hold it as bad towards me. ty in advance

PSS. This has got nothing to do with my opinion on the matter, I'm only curious:
Why do I only see people from Heavens Tear and Sanctuary on this thread? (Its a serious question, not sarcastic one, in other to prevent miss-understanding) What is different about Lost City, that they do not complain nor communicate in any way on this thread?
I ask this because I see people argue on this all day long on LC even, but almost see none give their post here!

that tasks memory and processing immensely. viable only for small databases and testing purposes only. also useless in case of server crash.

the argument actually went even further. bug exploiters would eventually compromise TW and PK experience because they'd have the best items of the game. also they'd die less often when grinding.

we're doing exactly what we would in real life. when a group of thieves start to make victims we complain about security instead of suffering in silence. what happened here is not so different.

perhaps because fewer people exploited the bug in LC the consequences are less visible.

Boza_Mishica - Lost City

Ehmmm please do not put me in chains, I mean no harm with my post.

As far as databases go: transaction log is there to prevent loss of data, in case of any fail(system crash, media failure, and safe resource logging in case of server crash etc), and COMMIT+ROLLBACK system is used in any real-time online changing application, regardless of size, check points and save points are there for that purpose. I dissagree with you on this tho its only my professional opinion! Only some1 with lack of experience would skip the part of automated data logging. But what do I know after 10 years of work experience with online apps.

**** them and their supremacy in this matter, my opinion is they will quit before I get to some respectable levels. Their power frenzy will end because they will get bored.

I have nothing against you complaining, its a free right of every person in the world, but please some people tend to play the game and use WC for more usefull matter. WC belongs to all, not only the same 20 people shouting the same thing over and over again. I only ask you to stop spamming the WC. Not you personaly, but all that do. If it was not noticed untill now it will not be noticed in the future either.

Hmm maybe you are correct on LC matter, I asked because I do not understand the diference, bug was there on all servers.

And once again, do not burn me, I am just trying to bring back some common sense. And again sorry if my English is not perfect. But then again prices were exactly the same on all servers, and LC ones alredy came back to normal.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Boza_Mishica - Lost City wrote: »

Ehmmm please do not put me in chains, I mean no harm with my post.

As far as databases go: transaction log is there to prevent loss of data, in case of any fail(system crash, media failure, and safe resource logging in case of server crash etc), and COMMIT+ROLLBACK system is used in any real-time online changing application, regardless of size, check points and save points are there for that purpose. I dissagree with you on this tho its only my professional opinion! Only some1 with lack of experience would skip the part of automated data logging. But what do I know after 10 years of work experience with online apps.

**** them and their supremacy in this matter, my opinion is they will quit before I get to some respectable levels. Their power frenzy will end because they will get bored.

I have nothing against you complaining, its a free right of every person in the world, but please some people tend to play the game and use WC for more usefull matter. WC belongs to all, not only the same 20 people shouting the same thing over and over again. I only ask you to stop spamming the WC. Not you personaly, but all that do. If it was not noticed untill now it will not be noticed in the future either.

Hmm maybe you are correct on LC matter, I asked because I do not understand the diference, bug was there on all servers.

And once again, do not burn me, I am just trying to bring back some common sense. And again sorry if my English is not perfect.

are you saying that rollback will magically fix everything when the server starts to present failure?

are you saying these buffers do not demand better hardware = more costs with hardware, slower application, more failures?

the only thing I'm sure is that I wouldn't be hired if table logs and rollbacks were as good as you say.