"noobs"

Illusionista - Heavens Tear

LOL. Ermosa--Don't say that! We were all once Noobs! [I'm still one] XD

In all seriousness though, Vinat--while helping people is commendable, calling them a derogatory term while doing that sorta cancels all the positive feeling there. I can understand if you didn't know "noob" is derogatory, but now that you know, it'd be most beneficial for you to stop calling people that if you don't want to be railed at. @_@

Ermosa - Heavens Tear

well Vinat saying it's not an insult, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with me calling him/her(don't care) noob as his/hers(still don't care)level is lower than me(at least avatar lvl is) b:pleased

well for me new player is newbie and noob means idiot who never learns(actually Vinat kinda fits in this list with his/hers(will never care) ignorant attitude)

Illusionista - Heavens Tear

Interesting logic--not flawed...but a little vindictive. XD

I agree though--I would much rather be called a newbie [because I would be and there's nothing wrong with that] than a noob ["stupid" as an optional prefix]. Lets hope Vinat can understand that he/she is being offensive when he/she calls someone that.

Vinat - Sanctuary

eh call me a noob i really dont care. if you're expecting a little ***** fit then sorry to disappoint.

last time i vent on here. jeez. you're all a bunch of wet blankets.

just a bunch of liberal, soft, sissy, hypersensitive terminology nuts. look at me, i'm so cute, i use the word "newbie"

bzbee

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

eh call me a noob i really dont care. if you're expecting a little ***** fit then sorry to disappoint.

last time i vent on here. jeez. you're all a bunch of wet blankets.

just a bunch of liberal, soft, sissy, hypersensitive terminology nuts. look at me, i'm so cute, i use the word "newbie"

If that's an indication of you not caring, I would love to see your response when you actually do care. b:chuckle

Coviana - Sanctuary

To make the point more clear about why people are offended, i think we could go back through this thread and replace the word 'noob' (or 'n00b') with an ethnic epithet found offensive by the community to which it refers, and replace 'someone who is new to the game' with 'someone who is a member of that race/ethnic group'...

Although from the tone of the original post, i suspect that he/she would be just as inclined to vent frustration at people of <ethnic group> getting offended for being called <ethnic slur>.

That said, the entire thread COULD just be a cleverly encoded way of having a discussion about that very topic without getting it deleted by Mods for using terms that are forbidden by political correctness in general usage... but i don't think the OP is that clever.

Agravain - Heavens Tear

Wow, so much discussion of the use of the word "noob"! Sounds like the veno you talked to was less of a noob than the bf. Her bf displayed the dumbazz characteristics that truely fit the term. The term "noob" is sometimes offensive, but not always intended so. For someone to automatically assume offense shows a lack of character and hot temper.
We need a term for higher level characters with a dumbazz attitude. I keep running into them; the deliberate ksers, the mine stealers, the vulgar illiterate, etc. I want a word that will sting them they way they deserve. Any ideas?

Sigr - Heavens Tear

Agravain - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow, so much discussion of the use of the word "noob"! Sounds like the veno you talked to was less of a noob than the bf. Her bf displayed the dumbazz characteristics that truely fit the term. The term "noob" is sometimes offensive, but not always intended so. For someone to automatically assume offense shows a lack of character and hot temper.
We need a term for higher level characters with a dumbazz attitude. I keep running into them; the deliberate ksers, the mine stealers, the vulgar illiterate, etc. I want a word that will sting them they way they deserve. Any ideas?

Those are called asshats.

bunnyhunny

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie

Read them over, and then understand why the word "noob" is generally seen as a derogatory term. I, personally, have no issues with the word, but then it takes quite a lot for me to get offended - and double that for any conversation over the internet. This isn't about me or you, though, it's about 90%+ of the online gaming community who understands "noob" as an insult (whether the shoe fits or not).

A low level character is referred to as a "lowbie." A new player who is willing to learn (and not just asking for handouts - that is quite "noob"-ish) is called a "newbie" or "newb." The stubborn jerk who thinks they know everything when it is evident they don't is the "noob," and they can be any level.

Even if you don't intend to use that definition of the word "noob," most people will still take it as such, and sometimes they will lash back. It's about common courtesy. Don't get hung up on "players taking offense to being called a noob," just stop using the word and communication will go much more smoothly. Is it that hard?

Consider this: in real life, people don't like being called "ignorant." However, the word simply means that the individual doesn't fully understand something, or they are unaware of all factors. When someone asks you a question (meaning they inquire because they don't know something), do you always call them ignorant? If not, why not? If so, how many fat lips and black eyes have you received from doing so? (this I wanna know)

+1000000000
b:thanks

Vinat - Sanctuary

you know context does play a HUGE role in whether someone gets offended or not. even with "racial slurs".. example.. the N word. if you replace the last 2 letters with an "A" then everything's just fine and dandy and nobody seems to care, people might even condiser that a term of.. endearment or.. friendship.. something like that.

same thing goes for noob. it is one thing to refer to a person's noob quests (like i had with these noobs initially) and another thing to call someone a "****ing noob" (like i did to same noobs after they had gotten an attitude).

if a person is going to react to "hey, i like to help noobs do their noob quests" the same way they react to "i ****ing hate you, you stupid ****ing noob" then that person has a reading comprehension problem and obvious issues with picking up on context clues. it is not MY responsibility to walk on eggshells just to make sure i don't inadvertently offend someone who overreacts to everything.

Sigr - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

you know context does play a HUGE role in whether someone gets offended or not. even with "racial slurs".. example.. the N word. if you replace the last 2 letters with an "A" then everything's just fine and dandy and nobody seems to care, people might even condiser that a term of.. endearment or.. friendship.. something like that.

same thing goes for noob. it is one thing to refer to a person's noob quests (like i had with these noobs initially) and another thing to call someone a "****ing noob" (like i did to same noobs after they had gotten an attitude).

if a person is going to react to "hey, i like to help noobs do their noob quests" the same way they react to "i ****ing hate you, you stupid ****ing noob" then that person has a reading comprehension problem and obvious issues with picking up on context clues. it is not MY responsibility to walk on eggshells just to make sure i don't inadvertently offend someone who overreacts to everything.

Bad analogy. How hard is it to just not use the word? Seriously, how hard?

Coviana - Sanctuary

I dunno... i think the analogy is a good one... When a white person addresses a random stranger of dark-skinned ethnicity by even the 'endearing' form of 'the n-word'? To say the least, they 'take offence' to it, with rare exception. Likewise when referring to a random stranger of low level and/or experience as a 'n00b' - with rare exception, they'll take offence to it.

Conversely, if it's someone you know well, and have established an acquaintanceship or friendship with, there's a lot more liberty in what language is acceptable to use with them - and in those cases, such terms can be viewed as 'endearing'.

Sigr - Heavens Tear

Coviana - Sanctuary wrote: »

I dunno... i think the analogy is a good one... When a white person addresses a random stranger of dark-skinned ethnicity by even the 'endearing' form of 'the n-word'? To say the least, they 'take offence' to it, with rare exception. Likewise when referring to a random stranger of low level and/or experience as a 'n00b' - with rare exception, they'll take offence to it.

Conversely, if it's someone you know well, and have established an acquaintanceship or friendship with, there's a lot more liberty in what language is acceptable to use with them - and in those cases, such terms can be viewed as 'endearing'.

You wouldn't even consider using that word when addressing a black person unless you wanted your face kicked in. There is no point in which it is socially acceptable for a white person in America to use that word in reference to a black person. Ever.

Illusionista - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

you know context does play a HUGE role in whether someone gets offended or not. even with "racial slurs".. example.. the N word. if you replace the last 2 letters with an "A" then everything's just fine and dandy and nobody seems to care, people might even condiser that a term of.. endearment or.. friendship.. something like that.

Even if that's true--are you friends with these so called "noobs"? If I were ever to call someone something I know is generally known as derogatory, I would make sure the person is

A. A friend, and therefore makes it a term of endearment [and even if it were a friend I'd be careful]
B. The person knows I'm just kidding around with them.

But I don't know. If some random person came up to someone else and called them the N word [even with the "aa"]--I'd expect someone to be shot in the face...figuratively speaking if not literally.

Anyway, not wasting any more time here. Laters.

Hildeborg - Heavens Tear

Everyone is a newbie at the beginning - and the level has nothing to do, it's a fact that when I came here for the first time I had no clue about the game mechanics.


Therefore I sat somewhere, read the help (L), perused the forums to gather useful databases links, and did get on with the game. During the following days a few players pointed out to me a few tricks of how the game worked out, and I sometime ask questions, and watch duels for well-working skill combo, and use Player Info to see the equipment they chose ( MEGABYTE has a nice suit, by the way ).


On the other hand, a NOOB will never learn, and don't care to, instead it'll yell and whine and beg for help* and gold and items and will stick to your shoes like a stale chewing-gum, even if you are lower level than him, will become rude, will try to KS you to ruin your game experience and so on and so on ...


NOOB is an insult and is rightfully taken as one, period.


*( I consider that anybody really needing help for regular mobs that are not far over his level has completely botched his build and should reset or delete-rebuild - including me )

Coviana - Sanctuary

Sigr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You wouldn't even consider using that word when addressing a black person unless you wanted your face kicked in. There is no point in which it is socially acceptable for a white person in America to use that word in reference to a black person. Ever.

My point (almost) precisely. As such, the analogy is a good one, as far as social acceptability, and offense being taken by it. The difference is that a lowbie is unlikely to have the means at their disposal to 'kick someone's face in' for calling them a n00b. It's just as offensive and inappropriate.

That said, in some inner-city areas, there are whites who have been accepted into the black community to a degree where the term is used among them endearingly, as if they were black themselves. I've seen it both when i was living in NYC and in Kansas City (yes, i had something of a troubled childhood/adolescence). Can't speak for any other communities, though - and even in those, it's unacceptable to use it without explicit invitation from within the community.

Coviana - Sanctuary

Hildeborg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*( I consider that anybody really needing help for regular mobs that are not far over his level has completely botched his build and should reset or delete-rebuild - including me )

Personally, i wish games had skillsets that were adequately balanced to a point where the only way to 'botch' your build badly enough to be unplayable is to forget to allocate stat points or buy skills at all - something that can be repaired. I'd love to see a game where every skill offered is useful, and can be used creatively, thus allowing for a vast diversity of playable builds, rather than just cookie-cutter clones, because if you're not optimised perfectly, your character becomes unplayable.

Illusionista - Heavens Tear

Coviana - Sanctuary wrote: »

My point (almost) precisely. As such, the analogy is a good one, as far as social acceptability, and offense being taken by it. The difference is that a lowbie is unlikely to have the means at their disposal to 'kick someone's face in' for calling them a n00b. It's just as offensive and inappropriate.

That said, in some inner-city areas, there are whites who have been accepted into the black community to a degree where the term is used among them endearingly, as if they were black themselves. I've seen it both when i was living in NYC and in Kansas City (yes, i had something of a troubled childhood/adolescence). Can't speak for any other communities, though - and even in those, it's unacceptable to use it without explicit invitation from within the community.

Though, just because a lowbie "is unlikely to have the means at their disposal" doesn't mean it's acceptable. It's like saying you want to taunt a baby with candy and make them cry because you can and they can't fight back [LOL sorry for the weird analogy--but it's still sorta unacceptable].

I live in NYC right now and I do not, in any way, believe it's acceptable...unless you have explicit invitation. If you compare this with the OP's situation--I don't see any "explicit invitation" from the newbies to call them "noobs."

tcab969

sometimes i dont like it when people call me a noob becuz they mean it to be an insult it gets really annoying

Coviana - Sanctuary

Illusionista - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Though, just because a lowbie "is unlikely to have the means at their disposal" doesn't mean it's acceptable. It's like saying you want to taunt a baby with candy and make them cry because you can and they can't fight back [LOL sorry for the weird analogy--but it's still sorta unacceptable].

I live in NYC right now and I do not, in any way, believe it's acceptable...unless you have explicit invitation. If you compare this with the OP's situation--I don't see any "explicit invitation" from the newbies to call them "noobs."

If you've followed the thread throughout, you'd see that i'm fully in agreement with everything you say here. If anything, the fact that they don't have the means to respond to the offensive slur against them makes it even WORSE to use it.

And yes, if the OP and their friends use the term endearingly among themselves, that's fine. However, when they start imposing an offensive term on the general public, it is still offensive, no matter how they mean it among themselves.

And as i said in the post you quoted, i agree entirely that one needs explicit invitation before using a term generally considered to be offensive, or you'll be looking at an extremely hostile reaction.

Solemonie - Heavens Tear

Not knowing what the difference between noob and newb is and then
blaming the others for taking offence is endeed pretty noobish^^

This is a classic b:chuckle

Coviana - Sanctuary

Solemonie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not knowing what the difference between noob and newb is and then
blaming the others for taking offence is endeed pretty noobish^^

This is a classic b:chuckle

I was wondering when someone would point out that irony, but I was trying to be polite and explain, in hopes that the OP's ignorance on the matter could be overcome.

bzbee

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

you know context does play a HUGE role in whether someone gets offended or not. even with "racial slurs".. example.. the N word. if you replace the last 2 letters with an "A" then everything's just fine and dandy and nobody seems to care, people might even condiser that a term of.. endearment or.. friendship.. something like that.

same thing goes for noob. it is one thing to refer to a person's noob quests (like i had with these noobs initially) and another thing to call someone a "****ing noob" (like i did to same noobs after they had gotten an attitude).

if a person is going to react to "hey, i like to help noobs do their noob quests" the same way they react to "i ****ing hate you, you stupid ****ing noob" then that person has a reading comprehension problem and obvious issues with picking up on context clues. it is not MY responsibility to walk on eggshells just to make sure i don't inadvertently offend someone who overreacts to everything.

Bottom line is, OP expected support for this topic and when he/she didn't get it, started getting defensive and offensive.

Look at the replies here OP. How many people can you count who actually says that you should not avoid using that word or that the word is never considered offensive.

Then think about it.

The fact that majority thinks it is offensive (even if they won't take offense personally) tells you that the problem is you, not others.

No, it is not YOUR responsibility to thread on eggshells so you do not inadvertently offend someone. However it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that the words coming out of YOUR mouth are not offensive.

Learn from this instead of arguing for the sake of stubborn pride.

Kudos to you if you decide to learn from this incident. However if you decide to remain an ignoramus, good luck in game and in life.

_Arrow_ - Lost City

When high lvls call me "noob" as an insult, i don't really care.

I don't take the word "noob" as an insult

oh come on, i'll be more offended if you call me a "stupid m*****f***" than a "noob"

noob is just a word ppl call each other in a GAME! not something to get upset about! b:angry

bzbee

_Arrow_ - Lost City wrote: »

When high lvls call me "noob" as an insult, i don't really care.

I don't take the word "noob" as an insult

oh come on, i'll be more offended if you call me a "stupid m*****f***" than a "noob"

noob is just a word ppl call each other in a GAME! not something to get upset about! b:angry

The point is that not all will be like you. Personally I don't care if someone called me noob either. I just shrug it off be it an insult or a joke or whatever.

However, common courtesy dictates that we reconsider before using an offensive word. It is common knowledge that the term 'noob' is derogatory. So to avoid misconception, it is more prudent to avoid using that word.

I don't even like to call people 'lowbies' as I feel it is rather condenscending. So I prefer to call them newbies since they cannot take offense to it as they are new and hence there is no offense meant.

I'll give you an example. Let's use the term '****'. To me that is a derogatory racial term as it is to many people. To some it may be just a term they use to describe a chinese person. As such, it would be considered rude to call someone a '****' whether or not you think or mean it to be offensive.

Anyway as someone pointed out. Just how hard is it to not use the word noob?

Vinat - Sanctuary

yea i get defensive and offensive.. look at some of the responses i've gotten... "i'm gonna call you a noob, and idk your gender NOR DO I CARE x3" (really immature and.. preschool lvl attempt at an insult, just way too ridiculous to NOT mention lol) and like 5 different people calling me ignorant because i don't agree with their definition. you're all a bunch of god damn pansies. this overly politically correct, soft, patronizing language that everyone insists upon others using just to spare the feelings of the hypersensitive is BS.

so i'm an ignorant noob because i like to call a spade a spade and think that when you bring it down to basics, no matter how you spell it, noob is newb is n00b is nub is ALL the same thing. you know what "common knowledge" has taught me? that noob is a staple word of not just games but the internet in general. staple word of the IT generations. noob = all of the previously mentioned definitions and then some. therefore CONTEXT MATTERS -- A LOT. and i'd like to point out the post someone had made where they pointed out that on this very forum there is the "NOOB" guide, and someone else responded saying "oh thats just a cutesy joke" or whatever. ok, so when the forum says it, it's a cute little thing, when i say it, it's a flame? is that a correct description of everyone's assessment of the situation? becuase that's REALLY how it looks to me.

and yes, it is THAT hard for me to stop using the word. just as hard as it is for all the people who use "tis/dis/dat/da" (and any other popular, moronic internet slang) to stop using those "words".

also.. ditto like 10 times over on all of the "we all don't think like you" posts. apparently we all don't think like YOU either.

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

The word you should really use is "newb", but since it sounds like "noob" and ppl just use that instead.

The other side of it is that everyone on the internet has an inferiority complex or soemthing and they will take offense to ANYTHING you say regardless of its true intent.

bzbee

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

yea i get defensive and offensive.. look at some of the responses i've gotten... "i'm gonna call you a noob, and idk your gender NOR DO I CARE x3" (really immature and.. preschool lvl attempt at an insult, just way too ridiculous to NOT mention lol) and like 5 different people calling me ignorant because i don't agree with their definition. you're all a bunch of god damn pansies. this overly politically correct, soft, patronizing language that everyone insists upon others using just to spare the feelings of the hypersensitive is BS.

so i'm an ignorant noob because i like to call a spade a spade and think that when you bring it down to basics, no matter how you spell it, noob is newb is n00b is nub is ALL the same thing. you know what "common knowledge" has taught me? that noob is a staple word of not just games but the internet in general. staple word of the IT generations. noob = all of the previously mentioned definitions and then some. therefore CONTEXT MATTERS -- A LOT. and i'd like to point out the post someone had made where they pointed out that on this very forum there is the "NOOB" guide, and someone else responded saying "oh thats just a cutesy joke" or whatever. ok, so when the forum says it, it's a cute little thing, when i say it, it's a flame? is that a correct description of everyone's assessment of the situation? becuase that's REALLY how it looks to me.

and yes, it is THAT hard for me to stop using the word. just as hard as it is for all the people who use "tis/dis/dat/da" (and any other popular, moronic internet slang) to stop using those "words".

also.. ditto like 10 times over on all of the "we all don't think like you" posts. apparently we all don't think like YOU either.

There you go Vinat. This is the point we are trying to make. You took offense at being called ignorant and a noob.

As someone pointed out at the start of this thread, ignorant simply means you do not know or understand something. The word itself isn't offensive but the implications of it are.

If you are arguing that you like to call a spade a spade and that is right, please do remember that the posters can say the same. So to support your claim that the newbies should not be offended at being called noobs because they are new, by the same reasoning, you cannot get offended at being called ignorant because you do not understand that point. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It works both ways.

Xenesis - Lost City

b:laugh Noob Thread.

Ermosa - Heavens Tear

K, if you r so lazy then i will quote this from thread what Zenpachi posted:

"Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have NO WILL TO LEARN ANY MORE."

If from all these posts you still haven't learned that word noob IS offensive then you are noob. And it is ignorant to not listen others. Go find other way how to get your ego up not call newbies as noobs, thanks.