"noobs"

Vinat - Sanctuary

i am SO SICK of massively LOW LVL players taking offense to being called a noob.

just now i ran into a veno outside of etherblade. she was speaking in general talk mode so i heard her say something which led me to believe she had not gotten pets yet, so i dropped down to offer some friendly advice, told her that her "noob quests" are localized to her birth region and thats where she should be. her boyfriend or whatever, some human class male, interjected with a major attitude, and went off on a rant that people will play the game however they like, im not more of a person just bcuz i am high lvl, and a bunch of other stuff like that, to which i responded something to the effect of "****** noobs" and i left.

then he whispers me, accusing me of harassment, telling me he will report me for it, saying that i am hurting their enjoyment of the game by calling them noobs. my response to this was that under lvl 20 = automatic noob status. after a little more back and forth he reveals that the veno i was offering advice to was lvl 2... but GOD FORBID SOMEONE CALL THE MIGHTY AND EXPERIENCED LVL 2 A NOOB.. OH NOES b:shocked

i mean really... even if you have a lvl 90+ character, soon as you make a new one and it is lvl 1.. YOU'RE A NOOB. that character is inextricably NOOB by simple definition of being massively LOW in lvl. if you're still doing the race-specific quests (1-19 chain) then you are a noob. why the hell do people take so much offense to being called what they are?

Briegg - Sanctuary

i never take a offense to it
becuase i am a noob
i'm lvl 44 and i still consider myself a noob

but mainly being a noob isn't so bad
in most games when i start out i'll wander around
and be liek "Help i'ma a noob can anyoen spare me some stuff"
and they usually do.

but yeah it's annoying when noobs take offense to being called a noob
all it means is new player..

Zoe - Heavens Tear

I see a lot of times that high levels call low levels noobs as an insult. Those high levels seem to have forgotten, they were noobs once as well. Remember where you came from.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie

Read them over, and then understand why the word "noob" is generally seen as a derogatory term. I, personally, have no issues with the word, but then it takes quite a lot for me to get offended - and double that for any conversation over the internet. This isn't about me or you, though, it's about 90%+ of the online gaming community who understands "noob" as an insult (whether the shoe fits or not).

A low level character is referred to as a "lowbie." A new player who is willing to learn (and not just asking for handouts - that is quite "noob"-ish) is called a "newbie" or "newb." The stubborn jerk who thinks they know everything when it is evident they don't is the "noob," and they can be any level.

Even if you don't intend to use that definition of the word "noob," most people will still take it as such, and sometimes they will lash back. It's about common courtesy. Don't get hung up on "players taking offense to being called a noob," just stop using the word and communication will go much more smoothly. Is it that hard?

Consider this: in real life, people don't like being called "ignorant." However, the word simply means that the individual doesn't fully understand something, or they are unaware of all factors. When someone asks you a question (meaning they inquire because they don't know something), do you always call them ignorant? If not, why not? If so, how many fat lips and black eyes have you received from doing so? (this I wanna know)

Coviana - Sanctuary

A lot of words seem to have been captured to carry a negative connotation and be used as an insult, and despite being a literally accurate term to describe the person in question, they're still viewed as offensive to the person on the receiving end. As an example, one can look at a whole string of descriptors for various ethnicities, which, when taken literally, are simply inoffensive descriptors, but over time have developed negative and offensive connotations because of the context in which they have been used (frequently in conjunction with racism-driven lynchmobs). I think that in the microcosm of the online gaming world, such may also be the case with the word 'noob' (and possibly 'carebear' as well, but some of us have reclaimed that word to be a compliment, rather than the insult it is intended to be).

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Coviana - Sanctuary wrote: »

A lot of words seem to have been captured to carry a negative connotation and be used as an insult, and despite being a literally accurate term to describe the person in question, they're still viewed as offensive to the person on the receiving end.

Actually, according to the wiki article (and I'm not sure how credible it is), noob is intended to be negative. Generally typed out with the o's as zeros, as in n00b, and used to make fun of the wannabe hackers who adopted "1337-speak," using a lot of numbers (and other characters) to replace letters.

Coviana - Sanctuary

If what you're saying is correct, then wouldn't it be 'offensive' to have a Stickied post in the Beginner's section called 'Ultimate Noob Guide', which beginners are expected to read without being offended, before posting a new question?

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Coviana - Sanctuary wrote: »

If what you're saying is correct, then wouldn't it be 'offensive' to have a Stickied post in the Beginner's section called 'Ultimate Noob Guide', which beginners are expected to read without being offended, before posting a new question?

It might be, but then you're now referring to context and a bit of "tongue-in-cheek" humor (though a bit dry). You know, kinda like "Idiot's guide to..." The company is obviously not calling anyone an "idiot," it's just context and humor.

Oishasan - Sanctuary

It's a bad word, if you like using bad words, that's fine.
But people tend to treat you with disrespect, for you have opened the door to allow it.

On the word itself, it's not only an insult, but pretty vague and could reference anything. For example:
You yourself, Vinat, are a forum 'noob', your post count is 'massively LOW'.

Not that I agree with this, but it's an example of how the term could be used for anything. Thus it being perceived as an insult.

Sigr - Heavens Tear

Coviana - Sanctuary wrote: »

If what you're saying is correct, then wouldn't it be 'offensive' to have a Stickied post in the Beginner's section called 'Ultimate Noob Guide', which beginners are expected to read without being offended, before posting a new question?

The term noob is meant as an insult most of the time, and I have yet to see a time in game, in any game for that matter, in which is was not used as an insult. On top of that it does carry the connotation of being an idiot, or someone that doesn't know what they are doing.

And, IMHO, the guide should have been titled with newbie and not noob.

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i am SO SICK of massively LOW LVL players taking offense to being called a noob.

Because that word is most of the time being used as an insult and not as a friendly description if their "inexperienced" status. The political correct term is "newbie".
I do admit that I find the context you have been using the word quite innocent, but can't blame people for getting a bit touchy after having been insulted and belittled by loads of arrogant jerks either.

Gonzu - Heavens Tear

Noob = a stupid and obnoxious player that can be of any level.

Newbie = a new player in the game.

Thats my definition anyway.



Twink = a player that is kitted out in exceptionally good gear for his level and it also means a very handsome guy in the **** community. b:chuckle

Thanassis - Heavens Tear

Sigr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The term noob is meant as an insult most of the time, and I have yet to see a time in game, in any game for that matter, in which is was not used as an insult. On top of that it does carry the connotation of being an idiot, or someone that doesn't know what they are doing.

First: I am sorry you seem to run into mainly "elitist" people in online games. In my roughly 10 years of online gaming I have often been called noob, I often called people noobs and most of the time it was just the most accurate description available and in no way meant to be an insult.
Second: Noobs/Newbies/LowLVLs usually do not know what they are doing. I got several 50+ chars and still sometimes feel I don't know what I am doing. People are not born perfect and omniscient, so it is natural that people new to a game (for which a low lvl is a strong hint albeit no proof) do know little or nothing about the game.

Sigr - Heavens Tear

Thanassis - Heavens Tear wrote: »

First: I am sorry you seem to run into mainly "elitist" people in online games. In my roughly 10 years of online gaming I have often been called noob, I often called people noobs and most of the time it was just the most accurate description available and in no way meant to be an insult.
Second: Noobs/Newbies/LowLVLs usually do not know what they are doing. I got several 50+ chars and still sometimes feel I don't know what I am doing. People are not born perfect and omniscient, so it is natural that people new to a game (for which a low lvl is a strong hint albeit no proof) do know little or nothing about the game.

The difference is, generally speaking, a "newbie" is new to the game while a "noob" isn't new, they are just dumb, or just don't get it no matter how much they've played or been told: they are simply beyond help. I've seen both types of players, and while level doesn't mean they are new to the game it doesn't mean they should be labeled a noob.

Oldbear - Sanctuary

I have few lower level characters as well. I'm consider myself too old to make a fuzz over every word people say but yes keep using the word and adding to my friends list or squading up with any of my characters will be "respectfully denied".

That's actually interesting perspective if you think of it - insult 1 low-level player and you get negative response from maybe 3-5 other character including highest one the player can play. I've heard quite few LV70+ are having some newbie characters as well. So I'd be careful with that word.

Vinat - Sanctuary

i do call people ignorant when appropriate and no one has ever struk me. i'm a college student, not a high school kid. any adult knows violence is unacceptable in most situations.

and i too still consider myself a bit of a noob. it's not until i run into some actual noobs that i feel any different.

a lot of you are hung up on the spelling of it... first of all if only for typing speeds sake, "noob" is more efficient than "newb" or "newbie." given all the "somefin" "dat" and "da"s i have to read daily and encounter the same justification for... noob should be no different. also, if that word came up in a verbal conversation, like on teamspeak or other voice chats, there would be no telling the difference between noob and newb.

and lastly i still maintain that anyone on a character under lvl 20 has no right to take offense to being called a noob. and i really dont see a problem with calling the low lvl quests "noob quests"... it's what they are

Gonzu - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i do call people ignorant when appropriate and no one has ever struk me. i'm a college student, not a high school kid. any adult knows violence is unacceptable in most situations.

and i too still consider myself a bit of a noob. it's not until i run into some actual noobs that i feel any different.

a lot of you are hung up on the spelling of it... first of all if only for typing speeds sake, "noob" is more efficient than "newb" or "newbie." given all the "somefin" "dat" and "da"s i have to read daily and encounter the same justification for... noob should be no different. also, if that word came up in a verbal conversation, like on teamspeak or other voice chats, there would be no telling the difference between noob and newb.

and lastly i still maintain that anyone on a character under lvl 20 has no right to take offense to being called a noob. and i really dont see a problem with calling the low lvl quests "noob quests"... it's what they are

You are ignorant b:chuckle read post #12.

Vinat - Sanctuary

Gonzu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Noob = a stupid and obnoxious player that can be of any level.

Newbie = a new player in the game.

Thats my definition anyway.



Twink = a player that is kitted out in exceptionally good gear for his level and it also means a very handsome guy in the **** community. b:chuckle

*rolls eyes* i did. your definition. not mine. opinion is not fact. and if chosing to disagree with YOUR opinion makes me ignorant by your definition, then so be it.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i do call people ignorant when appropriate and no one has ever struk me. i'm a college student, not a high school kid. any adult knows violence is unacceptable in most situations.

Really? You do? So someone asks you where the local post office is and you call them ignorant? Because, again, we are talking context. Saying someone is ignorant of the facts in a formal argument is one thing, calling them ignorant for simply asking a question is another.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and i too still consider myself a bit of a noob. it's not until i run into some actual noobs that i feel any different.

And, again, it doesn't matter how you feel about the word or what your intention is. If you're going to complain about other people's reactions to it, you might want to consider that they don't know your intention. Reading someone's intention in text is much, much harder than vocally or in person. Besides, if 9 other people insulted them with the word, and you come along and just attach it to your sentence, do you really fault them for taking it, too, as an insult?

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and lastly i still maintain that anyone on a character under lvl 20 has no right to take offense to being called a noob. and i really dont see a problem with calling the low lvl quests "noob quests"... it's what they are

You can maintain it all you want, but that doesn't make it true, nor does it mean everyone should (or will) adopt your mentality on the subject. Personally, I'm never offended by it, no matter how it's said to me - but that's me. I know that others are, and therefore I respect their sensitivity and choose not to use it (that, and shortening/misspelling words on purpose is ridiculous to me most of the time).

You complain about their reactions, and tell them (as in, everyone) that they should just get over it. You could just as easily ignore them or, better yet, just don't do it to begin with. Save everyone some grief right from the beginning.

Vinat - Sanctuary

alright, so i'll never offer help or advice to a noob ever again as i will be unable to refrain from referring to both them and their required in game activities as "noob."

Gonzu - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

*rolls eyes* i did. your definition. not mine. opinion is not fact. and if chosing to disagree with YOUR opinion makes me ignorant by your definition, then so be it.

You can roll your eyes all you want.

This definition is shared by most people that have played MMOs since the golden days.

Noob is not a term for a new player, it's an insult.

Vinat - Sanctuary

Gonzu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You can roll your eyes all you want.

This definition is shared by most people that have played MMOs since the golden days.

Noob is not a term for a new player, it's an insult.

*rolls eyes* ok grand-poo-bah of all that is fact and general consensus. whatever you say.

Gonzu - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

*rolls eyes* ok grand-poo-bah of all that is fact and general consensus. whatever you say.

I have said that you are wrong.

Many others have said that you are wrong.

Yet you claim that you are right.

There is no way to reason with you.

Stop insulting the new players by calling them noobs.

You are ignorant and obnoxious.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

*rolls eyes* ok grand-poo-bah of all that is fact and general consensus. whatever you say.

You tell us. You're the one who's so sick of "LOW LVL players taking offense to being called a noob." That implies it either happens a lot, or you have an incredible sensitivity to people being offended by something. If it happens a lot, wouldn't it be obvious that the general consensus is that it's insulting?

Common sense, here. It's either: lots of people, or only a few get offended by the term. If it's a few, isn't your entire thread pretty pointless?

Vinat - Sanctuary

Gonzu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have said that you are wrong.

Many others have said that you are wrong.

Yet you claim that you a right.

There is no way to reason with you.

Stop insulting the new players by calling them noobs.

You are ignorant and obnoxious.

hey, i'm not the one parading my opinion as fact here. stop jumping down my throat. i'm guessing that a lot of people must have called you a noob in an insulting manner and thus your hostility. and i can see why they would, you have a major attitude problem. by your self-proclaimed, universally agreed upon definition, is THAT not a noob? you're the one being obnoxious.

Vinat - Sanctuary

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You tell us. You're the one who's so sick of "LOW LVL players taking offense to being called a noob." That implies it either happens a lot, or you have an incredible sensitivity to people being offended by something. If it happens a lot, wouldn't it be obvious that the general consensus is that it's insulting?

Common sense, here. It's either: lots of people, or only a few get offended by the term. If it's a few, isn't your entire thread pretty pointless?

and no, this is the first time something like this has happened to me, but i've heard stories and actually witnessed a few other instances of it as a 3rd party onlooker. i just think the noobs really over-react in a lot of situations, taking offense to a bland statement that isnt even directed at a person (i.e. "noob quests" refering to the quests, not a person).

Gonzu - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

hey, i'm not the one parading my opinion as fact here. stop jumping down my throat. i'm guessing that a lot of people must have called you a noob in an insulting manner and thus your hostility. and i can see why they would, you have a major attitude problem. by your self-proclaimed, universally agreed upon definition, is THAT not a noob? you're the one being obnoxious.

Stay on Sanctuary for the love of God. b:chuckle

Vinat - Sanctuary

Gonzu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Stay on Sanctuary for the love of God. b:chuckle

there you go with that violence again. is that how you solve all your disagreements?

and yea, i picked the wrong server. and i'm too stubborn to buy myself another set of legendary pets or let the ones i already have go to waste.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i just think the noobs really over-react in a lot of situations, taking offense to a bland statement that isnt even directed at a person

You're almost there. Now, you've seen it a few times, and you've seen people mention that it is a derogatory word in this very thread. Do you think that maybe there are people, potentially a lot of people, that consider it derogatory? Look back at those two links I put in my first post. Read them over again. Do you think that the people who collaborated on those may consider it derogatory, as well?

Perhaps all these random people are in the minority? Maybe you, with your separate definition, and with your unspoken intentions, hold the authority on what "noob" means?

Critical thinking is crucial, here.

bzbee

Gonzu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Stay on Sanctuary for the love of God. b:chuckle

OMG no....go to HT! b:chuckle

Seriously Vinat, you cannot claim others take offence to your words because they refuse to accept they are indeed noobs despite you knowing that the term can be derogatory.

If you are sincere to help, surely it it wouldn't hurt to phrase it in a more pleasant manner by referring to them as newbies. Remember its a matter of perception.

You think its stupid of them to not accept they are noobs because they are low level.
They think you are derogatory towards them because they are low leve.

You claim you mean no offense.
They think you mean offense.

Easy compromise...........stop using that word. Problem solved.

Now how hard is that?

There really is no point in being stubborn about this because you do know that term is also used in a derogatory manner. People who are new to the game and do not know you should not be expected to understand you mean no offense with that word.

Ermosa - Heavens Tear

Vinat is NOOB b:chuckle